In your own words: A lot of effort for a flag?

in #steemit6 years ago

It is no secret that I reward comments and I know that some people are commenting just to get a boost. I am going to be a bit stricter at times though if they do not add value to the conversations. I a also going to try to remember to reward those who engage with others in my comments section to as I think there is a massive amount of value and it helps me out a lot.

Now, I came across this comment:

@harminkona (50) · 4 hours ago
Consent to exhort and tirade . in the prompt area you are accurately indicating that it is essential to discover groups and to participate. Given some here are not local English speakers I may include the word Engage inside your group - on and off the blockchain - a few people can be to a great degree effective by mostly remarking and drawing in with others that infrequently post a considerable measure content as post. I know you realize that @tarazkp

That looked familiar...kinda. An hour earlier:

@uwelang (71) · 5 hours ago
Agree to advise and rant :-) - in the advise section you are correctly hinting at that it is important to find communities and to take part. Given some here are not native English speakers I might add the word Engage within your community - on and off the blockchain - some people can be extremely successful by mainly commenting and engaging with others that rarely post a lot content as post. I know you know that :-).

I have seen many people cutting and pasting already voted comments from the top of the list in the hope for a vote but, this is the first time I have come across someone really rewriting one fully. Perhaps there is an app for this or perhaps it is run through a couple translators and back into English so that it makes sense but, is not the same. Either way... It gets flagged.

Perhaps people don't really read the comments thoroughly, perhaps they think people won't remember what they have read an hour earlier. These are not bad assumptions but, risky. The irony is, it was on a post about having commonsense and working hard to develop your own content and place. Umm, spinning other people's comments is not what I meant.

This person has been on the platform since December and is Rep 50; should they understand that this is unacceptable by now? Well, that depends on whether anyone has flagged them for it I guess but even without it, how can someone actually assume that this is good behaviour in any type of scenario?

It is this kind of behaviour that makes Steemit seem so much worse than it may be in reality and in reality, there are large problems. I know that people struggle and look for any way to make a little money but please, please, please at least make your commentsyours. This is pretty sleazy behaviour in my opinion and I am not going to encourage it.

For those that do comment well and add value to the conversations, thank you very much, it is greatly appreciated. I hope that you put effort in regardless of the potential for rewards but, I do understand the need for some reward. What I hope though is that you will visit much smaller accounts from time to time and engage there too even though no vote might come.

To build strength across the lower sides of the platform takes work to build the connections between. In time, this will prove much more valuable than what it it seems it might now as many of these accounts will grow and those with good content, good network and a strong community will become tomorrows platform leaders and niche market fillers. As onboarding happens, this will provide strength and reward through diversity.

Relying only on the big accounts to grow the platform and provide rewards is very risky, as we can witness currently. This is a community and it requires a community at all levels to work toward an improved future.

Rant number 2 for the day? Not really.

Taraz
[ a Steemit original ]

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How about the guys that add in an annoying animated GIF or massive photo to help grab your attention? Love those guys so much...flag it time!

As my contest is gaining more traction I've had to flag a few people for coming in and upvoting themselves to gain some of the Bounty. Make a completely pointless comment and then drop a 100% upvote and 4 other people upvote that didn't even upvote the post...sure that is likely to happen. Auto Flag from me.

my best posts are comments, well I do pride myself in a few posts :D

yeah the imagery is annoying from time to time, I used to disable images and just read, posts are so much different then, just endless words, I think color is a nice addition, but it's also pretty distracting, and yeah general lazynes and people going for quantity rather than quality and contributing something won't do anyone a favor, this platform was fake enough with the voting trails, then automation grew so much bots probably are more than people at this stage ...

It's not about automation being a problem, it's a lot of data to sift through each day/second/week, but come on, drop and run never gets anywhere. I do wish people would just enjoy the good things and go live a happier life rather than stay here spamming, but that's neither here nor there,

one of my favorite spam comments was a "welcome to steem" message I got 8 months in :D at least I hope it's welcome to steem and not steemit because at that stage I was already using busy :P

Flattered my poor comment was used to copy it in a new way of copy / paste - lol. And even more flattered I got tagged in your post. No honestly - you are right - I am sometimes not good as well in comments hence i better do not comment instead of bollocks that is not adding value - as the value add here is what the community will make survive. I adore some of these really great fps that do tons if comments daily longer as my longest posts - and sometimes these really add value. Have great evening.

:)

I have found that from time to time I have to do a cleaning and flag a few as a warning to the rest. Mostly though I try to reward all who try. With Steem prices increasing, it is the least I can do. I do think that in the future however that the people who focus only on comment reward are going to be left out in the cold.

I would love it if more people discussed with each other in the comment sections though. It takes me longer to answer these days than to write a post... :D

You are doing it the right way - i personally flag only people with hate speech and radical political things - i could do more but it is too much already - i hear you on time invest to answer comments - i was guilty often but usually or too often most comments are for the bin - especially most of the ones commenting within 20 seconds after I posted - in early days i tried to educate them and explaining that actually reading and proper engaging might be better long-termed but I felt it did not make sense a lot - i tend to ignore bullshit comments - even I know we all should do this together to help the platform.

btw - watch that newbie - looks interesting :-)! @pleasestop - I like that!!! #fightspam

that does look interesting :)

I am waiting for the bot that can evaluate the entire account and post:

You are an asshole, your account will be burned and your SP given to charity.

;)

This bot you wait for is already here, called @BernieSanders - he just needs to add the charity aspect :-) - sure he would

You see this a lot in the posts of Surpassinggoogle where he upvotes majority of comments from $1-$2 and sometimes when I read through the comments it is as if majority did not read the post and was merely thanking him for being an inspiration.

A lot also would copy specific parts and just say they agree without any additional input or thought.

My biggest rant are actually those that does it and then upvote themselves by their 100% just to make sure that they are on top.

I usually upvote comments that are really good and comment a reaction to it.

Commenting is a good way to earn. When I was starting out it compromised my 41% of my earnings and I was doing about an average of 20 comments a day and each one was netting about a average of $1. so that helped me grow during December and January when the price of SBD was high.

Some people may think that you overreacted on giving that person a flag but to me it was well deserved because the person in essence did plagiarism and I really hate plagiarism. Majority of the people here doesn't have english as their primary language. Hell, I have it as my 2nd language but I try to make an effort.

If it is a problem of comprehension then it might be because the person is commenting on a dolphin or whale's post without understanding because it is not their interest but because of greed or even desperation they would resort to a copy pasta albeit with some minor word changes.

In one of my post about the dust threshold one commenter said that he had this once. He wrote a good comment where he got a nice upvote and a few days later on another post of the same author, he found his same comment copied by another person and it was of a completely different topic and he laughed and commented under the plagiarist and linked his original comment. He felt it a bad joke.

Steemians need to learn that this behaviour is not tolerated. If I had the SP I would be flagging these as well.

A lot also would copy specific parts and just say they agree without any additional input or thought.

Yes.

...On a more serious note, man accounts do encourage it as it makes them look popular and attracts many more followers. Some just don't care and some perhaps truly love having their virtual balls rubbed by strangers.

Commenting is a good way to earn. When I was starting out it compromised my 41% of my earnings and I was doing about an average of 20 comments a day and each one was netting about a average of $1. so that helped me grow during December and January when the price of SBD was high.

That is pretty amazing. Good job mate.

I have been language training (business English in Finland) for over 15 years now and am pretty forgiving generally, but this is 'premeditated'.

Steemians need to learn that this behaviour is not tolerated. If I had the SP I would be flagging these as well.

Most know but, money...

It is pretty amazing and I netted some pretty amazing followers although they may not upvote me all the time but sometimes I see a vote of their pop up and the huge SP they have is beneficial using the Busy Condenser as I get a hefty upvote from Busy hahaha

virtual balls rubbed by strangers.

I agree to some it is a psychological trigger that shows that they are a big shot.

I like to stick to commenting to people that I either agree their views on certain things or provide a good counterpoint to what I understand and know because I want to keep an open mind on certain things well except Plagiarism and avocadoes, I hate avocadoes haha.

When money comes into the equitation most people would go through the easy route. Not all but majority would because of the scarcity mindset that our society has impressed on our minds.

The phenomenon of rewording comments to plagiarize them using other words has been ongoing for months. I have posted about it in the past, and regularly see it in comment sections.

I do try to point it out, and ask the posters of those comments why they do it. I have never received a reply from any of them. I still dunno if there's an app, or if they use a bot to do so.

I did have a look at a couple users blogs, and they are capable of making comments themselves. I noted the first account I saw do this was also participating in some kind of ESL education regarding synonyms, which is essential to this plagiarism technique.

It's weird, counter-productive to Steemit, and social media in general, and I suspect it's an undertaking seeking to enable automating salient comments without triggering plagiarism tests.

Keep awareness of this high, as I suspect it's increasing in volume, and could produce AI that degrades all social media, and doom Steemit to be no more than a platform for AI rewards mining, at the expense of actual people.

Thanks!

This is one that came up:

https://wordnet.princeton.edu/

I saw do this was also participating in some kind of ESL education regarding synonyms, which is essential to this plagiarism technique.

I actually thought it might be something like this at first but I don't think so.

and doom Steemit to be no more than a platform for AI rewards mining, at the expense of actual people.

too late... :D

I am hoping that the coming AI will be counteracted with another AI and we can witness the destruction of the world because of copy paste.

"...we can witness the destruction of the world because of copy paste."

LOL

That would be a surprising apocalypse. And I though death by unga bunga was unexpected!

hopefully people start thinking so they don't need artificial constructs to do it for them, it's hard emulating people, you would need one crazy AI and that's probably not a good thing :D

I've seen a AI written post, it's quite old I can find the link if you need it :) I think yeah I've seen it over @creatr haha there is a cap on busy as well I can only scroll back 7 months, ... the fact nobody bothered to add some organisation to this messy media doesn't help either, buuut whatever we can do it ourselves and or wait for hiveminds and zergs to spawn ...

hahah that took a while, so you want it :D you want the juicy details, do you want the AI written post :) I can link you that, I can link you to a nice ted talk as well on the topic, had myself confused but I found it :D

https://steemit.com/steemit/@renzoarg/is-it-plagiarism-or-is-it-innovative-a-bot-written-article-by-laura

While we are at it, take a look at the comments on steem from a year ago, maybe it's not the best example :D I write a lot of comments :D

https://steemit.com/story/@creatr/content-creation-is-hard-work

so yeah don't fear AI, it's just a tool, fear stupid people getting their hands on it, we have a lot of shit already, instead of taking responsibility for the actions taken, we are trying to slime our way out of it and getting someone/another to take responsibility and solve the problems ...

usher AI the savior and protector .. :D

I don't know why we keep doing this silly play on ourselves, like the wars keeping peace, because you know fear fear

Hi,
Many hurry to post the first with spam comments just for visibility, they don't even read the post.

On the other hand, as you said, they think you will not remember the comment that you read an hour ago and rewrite it so that receive an upvote too. I always appreciate those who add value to the post and engage in conversation with others. Very well said, cheers!

I have a few people who use ginabot (or similar) when I post and they are usually the first few in. As long as they add value, I don't mind rewarding them.

To increase the force on the underside of the platform, work is needed to build the connections between them. Over time, this will become much more valuable than it seems now, as many of these accounts will grow and those with good content, good network and a strong community will become the leaders of tomorrow's platform and market niches.

I am on the platform since August but really active since December, when I started I had no idea where I was going, what I should do, then I dedicated myself to write some post, of course without success, until I decided to read to all those people who seemed to want to teach something else, when you read the publications (mostly interesting) you get with a lot of junk comments, this gives me a little sadness because I feel that those people do not have a good idea of what a social network is and interact with everyone, more and more are the techniques to attract attention and is when we see these types of messages, maybe the platform has a kind of fame, that as long as you have a quick comment, you will get a reward, really do not know if you have to work more with the culture of all of us who are small and that soon we will be leaders in this platform and so, do not distort the quality of this network.

I think that direction is very poor from the start and people must find their own way. Most people in this world are sheep and if they must make decisions themselves, they err on the side of lazy.

little by little they realize what their own goal is

I find myself commenting under a lot of your posts, generally without a whole lot of additional content aside from restating parts of the piece and saying I agree with them or am interested by them. Does that make me a part of the problem? I'm not nessecarily doing it for upvotes, I find that if i restate something and write it myself I can remember things better, which then helps me apply it to my life. I guess in a way, it doesn't further discussion, but at least I'm not cloning other comments.

Sometimes I do have things to add to the discussion, and at that point I do so, but I don't always have something to add. Does that mean I should stop commenting in those cases? I like to tell people when I like their work, because as a writer myself I like it when others do the same for me.

It depends on each person and generally I know who is doing it for votes and who is not. Familiar faces come in and talk someties, sometimes, quote and agree, someties just say, thanks or cool. With a relationship I can upvote all of them as I know where they are coming from. An unfamiliar face that comes in and says 'cool' likely didn't read it at all.

I feel sorry for others, @tarazkp. Just as you could see that plagiarism, how many more it will not have committed without having been judged first, it seems crazy to me that a person does not even take the time to read to be able to comment on how far the advantage, the caradurism, can go. I speak Spanish, but I may be interested in your texts, especially because I feel that you have a simple language and without any difficulty to understand it, and the appropriate extension for this type of text´Entonces why not read? is lack of time? of neurons?are unable to spin a comment worthy of a vote? Or is it simply safe to go: I use a winning comment and it has already been voted on? Really, that's too bad. good afternoon.

I am forgiving on language, even in people's posts. I am an idiot who only speaks English so I am in awe of people who can manage to write in foreign languages.

I think that people are just lazy and hopeful that a return will come with minimal investment.

First I was going to say I disgree with flagging comments you don't like, but then I read the whole thing and yes, plagiarism should be penalized. Am sometimes guilty myself of not thoroughly reading through posts, especially if I have little interest just to get a reward - don't judge me, am trying to be sincere.

Ultimately You're probably right and we should value engagement more than rewards but don't forget that steemit is also a source of revenue, it is easier said than done.

I hope I don't get flagged for this 😂

that's copy-writing :D it's creative :P

If it was more Tolstoy and less what it was, I might have upvoted it and flagged @uwelang's comment for not trying harder :P

pfff comments here exploded, this is all your fault, now I gotta read :| yeah he should :D but at least he's practicing :P

yeah you must be famous :D and damn I missed on the curation rewards :D well that's enough out of me, didn't mean to comment on commenting so much

Relying only on the big accounts to grow the platform and provide rewards is very risky, as we can witness currently. This is a community and it requires a community at all levels to work toward an improved future.

ok finally read everything, I gotta say I came here for the nice image at first, I'm happy there are conversations happening on here still :) sadly it's more over at trending posts, people don't put in much effort and suck up to rewards, I suppose it's having no values or not enough principles dunno, could be any reason.

So yeah glad you got a whole band together here to comment

Flagged!

No, I understand it completely and when there is money on offer, the temptation is strong to cut a few corners but, this will never work if looking long-term.

well there are different concepts of long-term, people are making money, now, so it's not fair :D from a self-centered perspective, this game is rigged and in never appreciated "me" which is not true, it's by far better than real life where if you make a misstep or fail you get judged and cut,

here at least you can write peacefully, the platform is populated mostly by good people, so you get support as well, there are conversations everywhere if you know where to look :) so it's a vibrant beautiful place to hang out :) I don't know why people want the steem so bad, if it wasn't a rigged game and votes were fair I'd be fine with just curating :D for good or bad I had to learn to write as well :)

anyways, see you later @tarazkp, help those poor souls get some value in them and appreciate the opportunity for growth and learning they have, rather than chasing empty numbers and getting flags for it ...

Steemit will be great once the payouts stop... that's in about 8 years or something like that.

I don't think people realise that they are going to stop one day, nor do they think about the spread of competition through onboarding.

what do you mean stop, it's engineered to keep inflating, you can always fork the code too ... It's a nice weekly grind till the end of time, or the computer time at least :D

Steem is limited and if I remember correctly, printing will stop in 2035 or around there. The pool is currently getting larger but will start decreasing after a few years. As more people are onboarded, it is going to get very scarce:

https://steemit.com/steem-inflation/@fyrstikken/what-is-the-inflation-rate-of-steem-here-is-the-supply-table-for-the-next-20-years

steem might be limited, but I suppose you can always print dollars, I think there was a limit on that as well, since they are steem backed dollars :)

well it's more complicated, yeah maybe in 30 years things won't be the same, I don't see a way the printing will stop tho, that's the reason people are here,

create content, get paid, something like that ...

interesting that the limit came up, I wonder what's the point of the SMT's then :P create a derivatives market, :| well a story for another year :D probably with the rate they release products it's gonna be a while, probably a few months before open testing begins

I 'think' the SMTs will mean that steem can be used to back them regardless of whether more gets printed. The SMTs can grow in value and push the value of Steem up as they do so. I don't know... :D

yeah if good communities spring up, I'm still wondering if it will be just echo chambers or if there will be more cross-pollination, so yeah that is one thing you can always do if steem gets topped, you can just buy some and create derivative tokens for some use case, it's a soft fork of a sort, hence why stinc is really trying to capitalise on that opportunity, less potential forks, more money gets escrowed, steem value increases, their "investment" pays off, dunno everybody wins :|

I'm still thinking about the possible benefits, sounds nice, but it's not a full smart contract, it's just having the options you have on steem, but handed out to you, rather than having to spend months to develop a platform and having it still tied to steem and it's development and politics ...

Wait, what? The payments are going to stop? Yeah, didn't know that. Ha ha. I thought that the increase would incrementally lower until it reached a low inflation level. Where could I get more info on this?

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