Where do we take STEEM from here?

in #steem4 years ago (edited)

Hello Steemians, originally, I planned to write a comment in this post (Where do we take STEEM from here?) of @cmp2020 in which he starts a discussion about the future of STEEM. However, my text became longer and longer, until I decided to make a post of it. :)

How to attract young people?


At first @cmp2020 is discussing ideas of making advertisements in colleges, which I like: of course it should be an aim to make STEEM attractive for young people, and going into the colleges could be promising.

As teenagers often are using mobile devices instead of computers/laptops, I think it's important to support well working mobile apps on STEEM.
Apart from @appics with its very engaged team, I really would like to mention the Chinese dApp from @wherein. One of its advantages is that one can include several photos into a single post.
Furthermore I think that @travelfeed are doing a really good job with their "Travel dApp".

What should we focus on?


Then @cmp2020 cites @whatsup:

What else should we focus on?
- New Dapps?
- Content?
- Rewarding casual content that is more consistent to most social media? Your ideas?

I'm bound to say that, old-fashioned as I am, I am a big fan of rewarding 'really good content'. I know that it's partly subjective how to define "good", but I think that there are characteristics of 'good' contents which (apart from all the subjectivity which for sure exists) do allow to measure the quality of a post, for example:

  • The quality of the pictures: are they blurred or are every details crystal clear visible?

  • The number of pictures: is there only one photo with a line of text or made the author the effort to deliver more? (I know at times also one single picture can be great.)

  • Formatting of the post, orthography and grammar.

  • Does the author make his posts interesting by offering own thoughts, ideas, photos, paintings, music etc. or does he only uses external sources (if photos or ideas aren't his own ones, then of course offering a source is still better than none at all)?

  • Does the author give sources to support his assertions (which is especially important in science) or just claims anything without sources and logical explanations?

To attract users who are producing 'casual content' I think it's alright to reward that to a certain degree ... but nevertheless, I would like to see the trending page dominated by more elaborated 'high quality' articles. :)

DApps are important for sure, but contrary to many others I don't consider them as the 'Holy Grail' of social networking (but to be honest and fair: I myself really like some dApps, like for example Splinterlands).
I don't think that for example the value of facebook springs mainly from superior dApps or technology. No, M. Zuckerberg simply managed to attract a huge amount of users which according to the network effect determine the value of his platform.

Already in My STEEM Vision. I wrote:

In my eyes, the unique characteristic of the STEEM blockchain, compared to other crypto currencies, is that it represents the fundament of a social network, a community based on it. This combination of blockchain technology and social media is so far unparalleled, whereby the original thought, to offer authors, artists, musicians, scientists, creative thinking freethinkers, ... an uncensorable platform with the additional possibility to get financial rewards for good content, in my opinion wrongly got more and more watered down and upstaged.

At this point I would like to say that I am aware that HIVE may going to be the blockchain of dApps. In my eyes it could be interesting to see STEEM concentrate on content creation while HIVE is setting other priorities. I wish both blockchains much success (I have good friends on both of them), and I really hope that in the end they can and will peacefully coexist (I know about everything which happened ..., but nevertheless I hope this wish will come true ... and I think most of the 'small' users want peace as well; as for example my friend @freiheit50 wrote that he just would like to be able to write his posts).
In future I will try to support both blockchains by writing content (if time allows) and upvoting content of (in preference) small and middle-sized users, among others also those who are using my communities "Fascinating Insects" and "The Chess Community".

The downvote topic ...


I am aware that here on STEEM the general sentiment is against downvoting. I do understand very well, why: most people (including me) just hate to be flagged. However, I still think downvotes (or any alternative?) are necessary to curb spam, plagiarism and abuse to protect the honest Steemians and their rewards.

If (for example - there are many others!) @haejin posts ten very short 'posts' (others write comments) per day (which nearly nobody reads or comments), just to upvote them with his own two huge accounts, then of course that reduces the rewards pool for everybody else. I only call a social network social, if people also acknowledge the efforts of other users ...

To detect abuse I recommend to check for example the "Voting CSI" of SteemWord, a great information tool provided by @steemchiller. The image below shows you where to find it (I wrote more about it here):



Note: this post only serves to collect ideas. I appreciate every comment, even if you completely disagree with me - just let me know what you think (I won't use @penny4thoughts as I upvote comments in my posts anyway).

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Thanks for mentioning me! Yes indeed, I only want to publish "good" content and communicate with other people via voting and commenting, as well here and on hive. And of course, after the painful divorse, I hope like you a peaceful coexistience of both platforms will come out some time. Currently it's impossible for me to leave steem and hive either. Too many friends are here and there. But I don't simply double any content. My calling for peace was written down in these two (not identical, but similar!) posts:

https://steemit.com/deutsch/@freiheit50/echo-von-jenseits-der-mauer

https://hive.blog/deutsch/@freiheit50/hinter-der-mauer-ist-alles-schlecht

I agree with your catalogue of criteria for good content.

I don't have as much influence to determine the further roadmaps of both platforms. I'm only a passenger on the train, not the pilot of the airplane. Time will tell us where all this will come out.

Let's wait and see - and meanwhile drink some cups of tea.
But over all I don't want to lose you and many other mates.

Happy easter to you and your two kobolds!

Danke, sehr nett geschrieben. Ich wünsche die dasselbe! :)

Peaceful coexistence is ideal and it's encouraging to hear others calling for it @jaki01

Thank you, for your positive, encouraging thoughts and I hope that quality and goodwill prevail, past politics...

Interesting to read your thoughts on these topics.

Thank you

The Steemit Team

Great post. Really glad I found you. As a new witness I want to do whatever it takes to take STEEM to the next level!

Thanks, and nice to meet you! :)

Good points here and I really value your continuous fight against RP abuse. I am sure your continuous flagging overrewarded posts must have already caused you some troubles and yet, you still keep going. Admirable.

Btw, talking about TravelFeed, you might want to check this out, a very sad moment for me as I was a happy user of that application too. I still cannot get over how the TF team got treated after all their hard work though...

I read it and understand the disappointment of @travelfeed.
We all should concentrate more on improving things now, instead of destroying them and blame each other.

Exactly. We cannot afford to fragment even more, we need to unite and work together. That´s why I didn´t get the hostile reactions. Did you browse through the comments too? Full of negative stuff, insults etc. Very disappointing :(

Did you browse ...

To be honest, no, and to be honest again: unfortunately, the "negative stuff" doesn't really surprise me ...

Good stuff. I would like to invite you and any one else interested to join our GHRO Steem Witness Forum . We look to meet in a round table style conversation weekly with the witnesses and users of steem. We hope to forge working relationships in order to make the future of steem bright again.
Join us Mondays 7pm in Canna Curate discord.

CannaWitnessForum.png

Thanks for inviting me!

However, 7 p.m. in the USA(?) means past midnight here in Europe ... and apart from that I guess my spoken English is not good/fast enough for mastering such a round table discussion.
Anyway, I think that Steemit, Inc. is planning to launch a "Community Discord" soon.

All that doesn't mean I wouldn't join (I will try it out), but I just don't know how much I will be able to contribute.

No worries. Hope to see you there. Look forward to meeting with people like you and more.

Great post. Good thoughts and well presented.

I've always disliked the Quality Content vision though, and I mean no disrespect.

However, if other disagree and that's where we head I will support it. :)

I've always disliked the Quality Content vision though ...

I know. :) No problem at all!

Resteemed :-)

Your post was chosen by one of our amazing and dedicated curators.

Thank for your contribution to the Steem Ecosystem.


Want to support us? Please consider voting for our Witness, Symbionts.

Want to support us?

Done.

IMHO ; ) If we continue to focus on:

The quality of the pictures: are they blurred or are every details crystal clear visible?
The number of pictures: is there only one photo with a line of text or made the author the effort to deliver more? (I know at times also one single picture can be great.)
Formatting of the post, orthography and grammar.
Does the author make his posts interesting by offering own thoughts, ideas, photos, paintings, music etc. or does he only uses external sources (if photos or ideas aren't his own ones, then of course a source is still better than none at all)?
Does the author give sources to support his assertions (which is especially important in science) or just claims anything without sources and logical explanations?

We are sunk.
The idea is to let people engage at whatever level they are at.

If we flag due to disagreement of rewards, we are sunk.

If we allow flags for differences of opinion we are sunk.

Flagging for plagiarism, stolen identities etc is necessary.
@ haejin and @ ranchorelaxo were berniesanders creations for the purpose of normalizing flags.

With all the drama he started using the haejin account again so I made a comment with my joe.public account saying what the fuck are you doing bernie lol. He replied with his berniesanders account with a ''haha you are a mother fucking retard'' It was nice to get another confirmation without any flags.

If we allow flags for differences of opinion we are sunk.

I agree that flagging for differences of opinion is detrimental.

I disagree that Haejin Lee is a creation of @berniesanders.

I dont mind the disagreement : ) He has had that site for a long time!

How do you feel about disagreement with rewards?
We still have themarkymark flagging steembounty because they get $3
https://steemworld.org/@themarkymark he last flagged them 3 days ago

How do you feel about disagreement with rewards?

Hm, I am currently flagging all trending posts on HIVE with a pending reward greater than 80 dollars to send some of that money back into the rewards pool. :)
In case of @haejin I also disagree with his rewards, so yes, to a certain degree I am in favour of these kind of flags.

The mistake bernie made was after I was commenting on ALL of his abusive spam, he decommissioned that group of accounts but started flagging the same people with the ranchor and haejin accounts the next day.
I keep a very close eye on things when i think the situation calls for it.

https://steemit.com/newsteem/@joe.public/pyzmt9

That is the link to the first public comment I made about it to preparedwombat. here is the txt in case you have trouble getting to the comment with the info.

Hey @ preparedwombat this may be amusing or of interest to you.

You may want to take a look at @ transisto's posts.
I was aware that bernie loved to taunt him so I went looking for when he last flagged @ transisto
Then I looked at who started flagging him after that day. Guess who started flagging him? lol yep @ ranchorelaxo and @ haejin

This is the link to the last flag by bernie of to the @ transisto's posts
https://steemd.com/bitcoin/@transisto/great-ressource-by-pieter-wuille-to-learn-about-and-test-bitcoin-miniscripts

and it took a few more posts before he was being attacked by @ ranchorelaxo and @ haejin
That on its own does not mean anything at all, but it is an interesting coincidence don't you think?

Check it out if you want. The original post was:
https://steemit.com/newsteem/@preparedwombat/the-haejin-and-ranchorelaxo-travelling-fun-show

My comments are not visible but if you click the link to my my comment without opening in a new tab it should work.

Edit
Bernie had previously been flagging preparedwombat
I made a mistake it was not the next day, it was two or three I can not remember exactly.

@transisto had flagged @haejin quite often, and I think that explains the retaliation flaggs of @ranchorelaxo and @haejin well enough ...

I know I am right and if you can be bothered to go back six months and look who Justin (bernies real name) was flagging with his prominent attack accounts and who took over after that, you would would know for sure as well.
But I was thinking that ranchorelaxo was one of his accounts right from the beginning when it was initiated.
But people will believe what feels comfortable. I am ok with that.

bloom is a retard in this department....

you can use my downvoting for purely malicious/personal reasons, as an example!

Maybe it would be better just to attack his alt account?

I have a cunning plan.....

Are you going to share it with me?

I would if it was properly formulated....still ironing out some wrinkles...lol

I have not read the terms of service on hive.
My guess would be that they are exactly the same as here.
That being the case you may be able show that he is fact in violation of the terms of service and appeal to have those terms of service enforced. There is clearly mechanisms on both platforms to prevent certain accouts from flagging. As an example the joe.public account is unable to flag the murky mark on the Steem blockchain.

If you went down that road, you would probably need to demonstrate having clean hands, so to speak.

yeah....er no....
I've never appealed to authority before for doing what I'm doing, I'm not starting now...
Maybe by bringing things to light in my own,way, will let others do the bureaucracy required to stop the cancer.

@jaki01
I like the post but completly disagree with free downvote. The concept of free downvote is not good. The downvote should not be free, it should be as previous we have or removed it.
The free things is completely sound wrong to me else no major problem.

From my point of view it's no problem to disagree.
The question is how without 'free' downvotes you want to combat spam, plagiarism and other kinds of abuse? If flags cost voting power the experience was that not enough users do that sometimes necessary task.

In "My STEEM Vision." I suggested the following:

If it were up to me, ways and means would have to be found to contain 'flag wars' waged purely for personal motives. For example, a committee of respected users elected by the community and equipped with sufficient delegated STEEM power could be called in such cases and then decide whether the flags were justified or not.

If you really unlike it use your voting power else you only telling and not want to do action. If you have actually unlike those content use your voting power to downvote it as you normally use your voting power to like that content. It is as easy as much.
Everything is given free, people misuse those things. It is clear and cut system.

I disagree with free downvotes. The upvote and downvote should be same and both action will decrease their voting power. If he really wish use it.

I disagree with free downvotes.

Right, and I disagree with you.
On HIVE @haejin doesn't earn anything because of well deserved flags. On STEEM he is exploiting the rewards pool like crazy. In this case HIVE works clearly better than STEEM.

By the way, currently downvote power diminishes even faster than upvote power.

On HIVE @haejin doesn't earn anything because of well deserved flags. On STEEM he is exploiting the rewards pool like crazy. In this case HIVE works clearly better than STEEM.

If actually, we don't want to earn any steemians, we can also do without free downvotes. Free downvotes not required, let them use their voting power, if they really cares about that. They only wants to use free downvotes else they can't do. If they really a well wisher of HIVE, then why they don't want their voting power let go down. This will also save reward pool.

Think it other way, than your phenomena.
If we provide free downvotes, No investor is interested in steem. Why a investor wants to loose his money by silly free downvotes. You will see in long run that NO investor will interested in Hive because of silly free downvotes. You can also see this in steem price, after these downvotes war steem price never go upward side.

Let assume a case, when a curator(you) upvote a post for curation and after that a huge free downvote come and post payout goes to zero (there are so many reasons of downvotes). Then what will curator (you) do. Curator don't like platform as a investor and leave the platform. What is the fault of curator?

This free downvotes are only made to cheat the systems and don't wants to earns others side of people (curator/investor). Some people has knowledge and some has money, both will come together and take the platform to moon. Only one person can't take it to moon. Here they wants only knowledgeable persons, they don't wants the investor. How steem will go on moon? with this philosophy never possible. We have also take care of investor. Both should equally important for the system.
The knowledgeable persons let go outside and make Hive. There let them run free downvotes, here we don't wants free downvotes. You should support in removing this feature and see the price in long run, and you will see that steem price definitely improve in upside. We have to take everyone together. Not only me and you. Always cares all, then definitely one day we will on moon.

By the way, currently downvote power diminishes even faster than upvote power.

I knew this feature that every steemians has 3 free downvotes daily. That should be removed.

You still didn't tell me how you want to prevent reward pool exploitation, spam and plagiarism without flags. A real investor (I mean investor, not short term profiteer) supports other users to attract them to the platform to increase the value of his investment. He doesn't try to extract as much money as possible as fast as possible.

Let assume a case, when a curator(you) upvote a post for curation and after that a huge free downvote come and post payout goes to zero (there are so many reasons of downvotes).

In "My STEEM Vision." I suggested the following:
"If it were up to me, ways and means would have to be found to contain 'flag wars' waged purely for personal motives. For example, a committee of respected users elected by the community and equipped with sufficient delegated STEEM power could be called in such cases and then decide whether the flags were justified or not."

You can also see this in steem price, after these downvotes war steem price never go upward side.

No, I think the STEEM price started declining after bid bots took over, because since then quality posts weren't rewarded anymore so that many people just started to spam big time.

I knew this feature that every steemians has 3 free downvotes daily. That should be removed.

No, like if you upvote, also if you downvote, your downvote mana is getting less. If it has reached zero, the next downvote costs upvote mana.
If you talk of three 'free' downvotes you could also talk of ten 'free' upvotes.

The flag will be OK, but it could not be free as currently given. It should be from 10 upvotes pool say daily upvote+downvote = 10 votes or say X value. If you want to upvote or downvote it is totally upto any steemians. There should be no difference. Upvote and downvote should have same mana not different. Whatever way they wants, use that way. Both are same. I am just telling that there should not different mana for each. Both should be same.

We are both on same thoughts but difference is only that you required different mana for downvotes & upvotes And my thoughts mana should not different for both. I never say that downvotes not required.

Hope you understand. I think no more discussion required on this topic. We both think same only difference in mana allocation.

I never say that downvotes not required.

Actually, I never wrote in my post to be in favour of what you call 'free' downvotes. It's you who assumed I would mean that. :)
But well, if you directly ask me, I tend to like the idea of what you call 'free' downvotes, because otherwise there just aren't enough flags to limit plagiarism and spam.
So it's true that we partly disagree.
Concerning flags for disagreement on opinion, I already described how I would try to curb them by using elected arbitration courts.
Apart from that I tend to agree with the idea of @glory7 that a reasoning should be necessary before flagging anybody.

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