Hey Steemit Whales, How'd You Like To Fix All Of Steemit's Problems And Make Bank By Doing Absolutely Nothing?

in steemit •  6 months ago

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I got into an argument with someone the other day about the whole @haejin issue and came up with a brilliant idea to solve all of Steemit's problems simultaneously.

The problems

  1. Minnows don't make any money from their posts
  2. Minnows get no exposure for their posts
  3. There is no incentive for high SP accounts not to rape the reward pool
  4. Steemit is flooded with unedited, low quality content
  5. New users leave quickly once they realize that paid upvotes are the only way to reliably make money and get exposure

These are all problems that everyone has acknowledged.

Until now, nobody has come up with any intelligent solutions. I've taken a look at the situation and figured out how to fix all of these issues at once.

The solution(s)

  1. A new account is created whose purpose is specifically to pay minnows in SBD for contributing content
  2. Agreements are reached with high SP accounts to upvote every single post on the account (similar to the @haejin - @ranchorelaxo arrangement)
  3. Rewards are split between the writer, the whale and the posting account

Sounds simple enough, doesn't it?

It should be obvious how this solves a lot of problems, but just for fun I'll explain it to you anyway.

No money, no hunny

As it stands right now, new accounts make virtually no money on their posts. The odd post here and there that gets a @curie upvote or something similar is not a reliable source of income for anyone. Professional writers are not going to spend any time here if the results are not consistent.

Even if a team of 100 curators had enough time and mental energy to sift through all the posts on this platform, a $54 upvote once a month is not going to do anything for anyone. What we need here is a consistent, reliable solution where content creators know that they are going to make a certain amount of money on every post.

For a 300 word article, for example, a native English-speaking writer should generally shoot for a minimum of $25 USD. If you're doing a bulk order you can lower the price a bit, but that's fairly standard (some would even say low) for a freelance writer.

As it stands now, writers on Steemit are making an embarrassingly-low amount per post.

If, however, high SP accounts agreed to fund an account with their own upvotes, then the SBD/SP generated from these upvotes could be used to pay authors directly for their contributions.

Authors would know going in that they would receive the equivalent of $25 USD (for example) per approved post. Why is this good? Because all of a sudden they'd know that they'd be guaranteed a payment for every article they write - just like in the real world.

Problem #1, solved.

No exposure, no money

As if it wasn't bad enough that minnows didn't make any money from their posts, possibly even more insulting is the fact that their posts are quickly buried under a mountain of content from other users.

One way to circumvent this is with paid resteems. I am a fan of these services and have written about them in the past.

However, the best way to guarantee that people read your content is by having a large following on your account. If you have 20k followers on your blog, then you have a much higher chance of your work being seen than if you only have 200.

With this new program, minnows would be able to work together to get exposure both for their own posts as well as for each others. In other words, if you have 10 accounts that submit one article each, and all of these accounts promote each other's posts (as well as the main account's), then you are reaching 10 audiences instead of 1.

This is commonly used for Instagram marketing and known as an engagement group. Everyone joins a group and likes each other's posts. So instead of only your own followers seeing pictures of your breakfast, lots of other people get to see it as well.

Minnow accounts would be able to grow at a much faster rate because the amount of "seeds" on Steemit with links to their content would be multiplied significantly. Not only would they plant a seed on each of the participating users' accounts, but they'd also receive a link on the main account.

If you look at the bottom of my posts, I put a "signature" with links to my previous posts. A rotating signature would be created at the bottom of the new account as well that promotes the 10 recent posts. That's essentially 10 different resteems from an account that posts high quality content, hires writers from Steemit, AND has a cooperative-marketing requirement built in to its submission policy.

Problem #2, solved.

If your paycheck depends on not understanding something, you won't understand it

One of the risks of the Steemit system is that certain high SP accounts will upvote all of their own posts and use the platform as a money-printing machine.

From what I've seen, people have tried to stop this by publicly shaming offending accounts.

While I'm willing to give these extremely vocal individuals the benefit of the doubt and assume that their crusade comes from honorable intentions, the bottom line is that it's an ineffective strategy that has proven to be unsuccessful.

Not only that, it is a turn-off to new users of the platform to see so much vitriol tactlessly spread to high-visibility areas of the site.

The real issue is that high SP accounts have no incentive to stop upvoting their own posts. A little animosity from some anonymous internet personalities is not powerful enough motivation to turn off your money-printing machine.

Until there is a reason for them to use their SP for something else, they won't stop. That's just basic economics.

That said, creating 10 posts per day is a massive time sink. It requires you to spend all day in front of the computer writing, formatting your posts, etc. Yes, they are getting paid. But what if they could get paid the same amount of money without doing any of the work themselves?

Or make even more money?

By outsourcing the labor to hungry writers, they would be able to spend their time creating a long-term strategy that would bring in even bigger profits. Negotiate deals with enterprise-level companies, create content for a $500/month paid newsletter, whatever.

The point is that they wouldn't have to just write post after post (which is extremely boring, trust me) and could instead use the time to grow their blog into a business.

So other than taking the task of content creation off their hands, what's in it for them?

All sponsored posts would have a link pointing to the whale's main blog/website/whatever, so they'd still be getting new followers and customers without doing any actual work.

Furthermore, they'd still make money from the posts because a significant portion of the profits would be paid out to them on a weekly basis. No, it's not as much as if they were to just upvote their own post, but keep in mind that this is a completely passive strategy for them.

On top of that, they also make an additional 25% from curating the post as well.

Worth mentioning is that they would establish some good will with the rest of the users on this site for spreading the wealth around a little bit. With this type of business model, they would know that they were responsible for enabling aspiring authors to make a little extra money from contributing content to the platform.

Imagine how grateful these authors would be for the opportunity to 1) reliably get paid actual money for their writing, and 2) get exposure for their brand/business/whatever. That gratitude could turn into potential future business opportunities for people who enjoy working together.

Finally, and perhaps most important, is that Steemit would go from a place where authors can make money maybe possibly if the stars align and they get a @curie upvote, to a place where freelance writers could get reliably get paid in the double-digits to write high quality posts.

None of this "just leave great comments and eventually you'll get discovered!" nonsense.

Problem #3, solved.

The best talent money can buy

While I will admit that I've noticed a slight improvement in the quality of posts on the Trending page in the past few weeks, I think it's safe to say that overall this place could use a higher volume of better content.

Go on Huffpost, CNN, TheOnion, Buzzfeed or any other major internet publication. Even if the topics aren't interesting to you, you'll notice that the articles have a certain level of quality. No spelling mistakes, no grammar issues, no 3 sentence articles. Everything is formatted and looks professional.

Is it because these people are intrinsically motivated to create amazing pieces of literature that will stand the test of time?

No. It's because they're being financially compensated (with enough money for it to be worth their time) to write something.

And not only that, there is an editor running the magazine who reads every single post, suggests minor changes, and puts the finishing touches on all articles before they hit the internet.

Do you think this editor works for free? Does he do it because he "cares about the future of the online magazine?"

Again - no.

He does it because he has to pay rent and buy food. If he stopped getting paid, he would stop doing it.

The fact that he gets paid ensures a high level of quality. Both the writers and editors know that if they let the quality slip, they'll be replaced by the thousands of other writers and editors who are eager to prove themselves to the owner of the publication.

As far as I know, there's nothing like this on Steemit yet. Either you pay for upvotes or you're a whale and just upvote your own shit. Quality doesn't matter. The only people who put effort into their posts do so out of a sense of pride, because they don't want something to reflect poorly on them that will be saved in the STEEM blockchain forever.

But when you create a for-profit publication that hires writers to deliver quality articles, those writers have a compelling reason to keep their standards high. If they don't, they'll be replaced.

Currently, there is no incentive to even spellcheck and format your posts. What's the point? Even if you do, there's no guarantee that @curie or whoever will give you an upvote.

And even if they do, are they going to do it for every single one of your posts? Of course not. They want to seem fair and spread the love.

That's understandable. But you're not going to get anyone who quits their job to write full time on Steemit if they have to depend on the generosity of a high SP account acting as a non-profit entity.

Problem #4 & #5, solved.

Ultra Birdkiller 5000

The current problem with Steemit is that the major SP holders have no reason to waste their time curating posts or otherwise spreading out the reward pool.

Even if all upvote bots disappeared tomorrow, that's not going to change the fact that these accounts have virtually no interaction with the bottom 95% of the community.

A model like kills a lot of birds with one stone.

  1. Whales make money without doing anything
  2. The reward pool gets a more even distribution
  3. Minnows make money and get exposure for their content
  4. Steemit becomes a place where you can make reliable money from day 1
  5. Post quality improves as the platform shifts to a marketplace that connects freelancers to businesses

We already have the writers. I will do the editing myself. I'll even handle all the off-site promotion.

All I need is a few whales who want to get involved.

What do you think about my master plan?

Let me know in a comment!


If you're a whale and you want to learn more, email me at yalla.papi@gmail.com or msg me on Discord at yallapapi#1970.


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Good points made, but it goes deeper then what’s presented.

I no longer get upset with anyone taking advantage of the systems put in place. I get upset with devs not listening to the users of their platform.

On my post I happily upvote anyone who leave solid comments and further conversations, but I’m not either.

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I no longer get upset with anyone taking advantage of the systems put in place. I get upset with devs not listening to the users of their platform.

The solution I provided above does not depend on the devs to be implemented. That is the problem with this place, that everyone expects "the devs" to do something. Who are these devs anyway? I've never seen any of them post anything. I've never seen anyone say, "Hi guys, I'm a Steemit dev and I just wanted to give you a quick update on what we're working on."

Where is Ned? I checked his profile and the guy hasn't made a post or a comment in months. The CEO of this company is nowhere to be found? I get it, maybe the guy is busy. But who cares? The point is that you should not depend on Ned, Fred, Jed or whoever the fuck to fix your platform when it's built on a blockchain.

You can create a solution from your own creativity, like I am trying to do with my idea. Stop looking for other people to solve your problems and try to do something on your own.

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Lmfao, you do realize that you are one in a mass pool of users. I’m not begging for anyone to fix anything, but it is clear that a community effort ain’t fixing shit.

Leave it as it is for all I care, just realize your whining will go nowhere with out an official implementation.

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"ain't fixing shit" until some day it does fix it. Look at Condenser which got basically overtaken by the busy.org interface. As far as I know the busy.org app is built "decentralized" from Steemit Inc. and Ned

I tend to be optimistic and keep faith that the system can gather enough forces to "fix itself" in a decentralized way

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Lmfao, you do realize that you are one in a mass pool of users. I’m not begging for anyone to fix anything, but it is clear that a community effort ain’t fixing shit.

Until now, the “community effort” has been lead by people like @berniesanders and @grumpycat who only look to punish people. There is very little construction going on there. They make a post talking shit and then drop the hammer. People get riled up and their energy is not taken advantage of. Because they have no SP, not much you can do with them anyway.

My solution was clear and concise. Not whining at all. It is a plan that will work if executed and does not depend on anyone other than me, a single high SP account and participating writers to get it going. We don’t need Ned or deva to do complicated math and have team meetings to make it work.

Read the comments. People “get” the idea. I think I just need to try and reach out to some accounts individually.

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I'm with you. Maybe even @ngc / @nextgencrypto / @thecyclist / @berniesanders could be interested in trying a more constructive approach ? Who knows ?

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Am with you all the way bro. Your solutions are realistic and indeed the vaccine to Steemits disease. @crypto2crypto you haven't proffered any solution(s) yet. So it will be better if your criticism is a little suggestive or constructive. @yallapapi its a privilege to have you as a High Sp account who is concerned about creating a lasting solution to Steemits' Problem.

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I mean thanks but I am definitely not a high SP account. I’m talking 100k+ when I use that term.

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Your post are too good so therefor i am going to following you right now.

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If anyone joins steemit GitHub and provide decent pull-request, they will accept it.

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I hope you are right

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^^^^^THIS.^^^^^

THIS @yallapapi COMMENT, RIGHT UP HERE.

A BAZILLION TIMES -THIS-

WE NEED A SOLUTION THAT DOES -NOT- DEPEND ON THE DEVS TO "FIX" THIS PLATFORM. FOR THEM TO "MAKE IT WORK" FOR US.

WE NEED A SOLUTION THAT -WE- CAN IMPLEMENT AND -WE- CAN MAKE IT WORK.

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I scratched my head to make an intelligent comment here and all I could come up with was "I fully agree". What else can I add to make it sound more intelligent ? :-)

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I read quickly but would you say that you propose is a kind of "internal magazine" inside the Steemit eco-system ? The whale would be like to owner of the magazine and he would pay (by voting) the "journalists" (minnows) that work for the "magazine". And there you add some kind of "magazine - like" structure with an editor that selects what articles make it into a given issue and takes care of the overall level of quality and style and alignement with the prefessed "mission" of the "magazine".

Am I even close ?

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How do I as little guy with no experience in creating something like this make a change to the platform??

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@yallapapi, i get your point here. The steemit system has been built to sustain itself. I also understand that Creativity and originality is what is meant to be the DNA of the system. But the issue here is, with the growing increase in the influx of new users, the web gets bigger and it becomes very difficult to get noticed. Though:
"Success is a never-giver-up journey" for me.

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People who are constantly “upset” with the system aren’t trying hard enough and spend their time whining about others. They need to work on themselves IMO...there are ways.

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Are you referring to me with this statement? I am doing plenty.

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Definitely not referring to you, talking about those that are minnows and just whine whine whine, steem is 2 years old, people like you and those up top that care are going to make it evolve, the ones at the bottom just have to stay on the grind...it will come together IMO

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exactly this. I was already thinking as a minnow that what this platform needs are people to come together as a group and get involved in stuff like this.

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Yes... isn't this the point... you start at the bottom and you work your way up? If you want to increase your profits you have to increase your efforts? I'm a newbie and I still struggle with understanding how it all works exactly. I still don't understand everything in my wallet. It isn't a new user friendly system... however I have persevered and I am slowing getting there. As you said, as things evolve so will we...

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Can I borrow some SBD so I can spend it on BOTS so I can get my post trending like these guys do? Thanks the only reason they got the followers they have & the upvotes they are getting.

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I know it’s an uphill battle. But it’s just like real life. Get over it and find a way to succeed.

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Look at my wallet. I ain’t got shit right now but for a few weeks and putting in effort i think it’s getting somewhere.

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Look at my wallet. I started after you. I cashed out $200 bitcoin took probably a $100 loss on it at the time. I put that into Steemit. Have withdrawn some steem & opened a Bitshares account.
It's now worth $275. So I think I know what I'm doing....

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I bet you are stupid in rl

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And the one who talks about not putting effort in only has $30.00 in their Steemit account & has been here since October 2017. I made $30 my first month here.

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most of what they do wrong in not cashinig in on baits based on current fads

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Steemit is an investment, yes one has to be creative in writing, but there is more to that.

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In the gaming world people would use the term "Pay to Win" which i think also applies here on Steemit. The people with the most money invested in bots and votes, will win over other people that don't have such funds. You can see a really bad post with 1 picture and 3 lines of text make $100 just because bots were used and a amazing 1500 word post complete with video's and pictures making only $1 without bots because of this.

I am also trying to use some bots just so my posts get seen by people and not get buried right after i posted it. Because i don't have such funds to spend $50 for upvotes or more for a single post, so its harder for people like me. Thats why i think you could consider Steemit Pay to Win ;)

To show you a post i made as a example: https://steemit.com/gaming/@baloothebear/the-best-upcoming-mmorpg-of-2018-is-bless-online

Which is in my personal opinion a decent post, and used about 3 SBD to give it some more attention, and the result is pretty darn bad... I am not saying i deserve $100 for that post, but i do think that it is better then some posts that make way to much for just a picture and 3 lines of text.

Don't get me wrong though, i do like this platform and i will keep trying to add decent quality content to my channel and i think it still great if i get a few SBD out of some of my posts. So iam happy either way, but i do see some sort of problem with the whole upvote system.

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This is an anticipating post. I request make post like this soon.

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This is a prime example😂🤣🤣

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What you say is absolutely true, the profit of the writers who contribute quality is not equal to the content that is currently being published, there is undoubtedly an imbalance in Steemit that we have to solve, you have some good ideas but how to ensure that all this is applied, how would you make the whales access the solutions you are giving?

It is absolutely true that the financial incentive in most cases raises the quality of the work.

The truth is very interesting and sustainable what you say, and don't forget the Hispanic community there is a lot of quality there, even many communities are fighting the battle against this problem that you have clearly raised in this article.

Hopefully you can implement what you propose, that would improve Steemit a lot, because when you see the cracks in a site you have to repair or rebuild and this platform has a lot of potential just need to correct.

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@crypto2crypto, Your stance here is great:

I happily upvote anyone who leave solid comments and further conversations...

But how many users with an advantaged vote value and reputation would do what you are doing in a way to have a significant effect on the ever-increasing population of this platform?

The system here has given power to the people. Its left for the "advantaged" users to have a heart of gold as you do.

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.504 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.504 SBD from the community!

Look at all those whales lining up to put this into motion. hahaha...

GL

Short of discovering the cure to human greed at a world-wide scale, if this isn't solved at the code side it won't be solved. It's really that simple.

After a quick glance over some of the comments, I'm convinced that @jaki01 suggested the most feasible solution in @scipio 's "UserAuthority" (link), or perhaps a similar algorithm that makes it difficult (ideally, impossible) to game.

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.365 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.365 SBD from the community!

Click the Play button below and start listening to the audio version of this article.

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.244 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.244 SBD from the community!

Hmmm... What if we could demotivate whales to behave badly from technical side?

Just quick brainstorm ideas

  • 1-2 full upvotes per day. Less junk content from whales.
  • More complicated voting power reduction. E.g. it reduces more quickly if you upvote one single account over and over again. If you full upvote joe and alice you are at 96% VP, but of you upvote joe 2 times then at 94% VP.
  • Slightly non-linear reward curve. Like x^(1-small growing function from SP) and the same for number of upvotes. So whale can't vote for himself with full power and also can't divide his power among many accounts BUT can divide his vote among many minnows.

Just an analyst in thread )

P.S. Dolphin self-upvote for visibility.

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What is we waste time thinking of a solution that none of us can implement because it relies on the developers of this platform?

Yeah, how about no. Do you think I made this post just to give my fingers a workout?

This place is not going to change unless we are able to better utilize the SP in whale accounts that is sitting and doing nothing, or just printing money for a few select users. Ned is not going to change anything. No dev is going to release an update that is going to all of a sudden make everything better.

I'm sick of seeing suggestions like this. Just a bunch of hot air that can never be executed. My ideas can be implemented by people who are not employed by Steemit Inc.

Forget about technical changes.

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You got a 24.96% Upvote and Resteem from @ebargains, as well as upvotes from our curation trail followers!

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We are also a very profitable curation trail leader on https://steemauto.com/. Follow @ebargains today and earn more on curation rewards!

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Just a bunch of hot air that can never be executed.

Therefore it's imo best to analyse the situation,

  • implement the changes in a new codebase.
    (no Hard Fork unfortunately, because then the 'abusive people' still get to take their massive amount of SP with them. )
  • get a pool of trustworthy witnesses/users
  • start a new blockchain from the ground up.
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Great. You’re hired. Let me know when it’s done. We’ll call it YallaPapiIt

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So I've permission to use your name then?
Be careful what you wish for.

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You have permission to use my name for my platform that you are designing for me. Yes.

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Okay, we just need to organize top influencers on the platform who don't want to be organized to solve just any problem in the place. That's more feasible than you know... write a pull request on GitHub.

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Write a pull request that needs to travel up the food chain and be approved. I would say it is more feasible to do it my way. Cloning the source and making a new coin would even be more feasible.

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I formulated some similar ideas to make self-voting, circle-voting and spamming less attractive by ...

  • ... thinking about a reward curve which started as n^2 / exponential (thus flat), and then later changed into linear which would work against self-voting as well as excessive rewards.
    @clayop had a similar idea.
  • ... implementing diminishing returns when upvoting the same accounts (including own ones) again and again.
  • ... reintroducing the restriction to four (or less) full paid posts per day (from some hard forks ago) which was very reasonable.

When I wrote these articles some time ago I really had hoped that more witnesses would have joined the discussion!

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Thanks - you made a great overview of the problem startin from year ago.

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@yallapai

OR

We set Reward limits and Posts limit. I guess if we keep max 250$ per post and max 2 posts a day, that comes to 500$ per day means 15000$ per month, thats if they make the full amount. Which is morethan enough for any one to live life in any part of the world. and obviously you can invest in steem/SBD or other cryptos. This will also limit the greed...

Also a minimum reward like 50 cents to 1$ (more or less i leave to experts) for every post with a minimum content (bots can handle this im sure) will give a boost to minnows, and will also lead to genuine wealth distribution.

Flagging should be removed, and i have seen and experienced personal grudges being removed by the whales who rarely posts due their high deligated power, and just flags the posts of members they dont like for whatever reason.

wdt.gif

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How about impose arbitrary limits on earnings that can be easily circumvented by anyone with half a brain

You're thinking from the wrong direction. Don't look to restrict the system.

Try and figure out a way to use the system that is currently in place to your personal benefit, while also benefiting many other people at the same time. Financial benefit, not stupid good feelings or "good of the community" fake benefits.

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You got a 23.36% upvote from @emperorofnaps courtesy of @yallapapi!

Want to promote your posts too? Send 0.05+ SBD or STEEM to @emperorofnaps to receive a share of a full upvote every 2.4 hours...Then go relax and take a nap!

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  1. Limiting rewards per account won't help as one can crate the whole lot of accounts and distribute SP among them.
  2. You'll get what you pay for. If you pay half a dollar for low-effort monnow post you will get tons and tons of low posts.
  3. I believe flagging is an essential part of the platform.
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Limiting vest per post would lower rewards per post and would make creating multiple account moot.

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Answers:

  1. True, cant we create bots that can track them? like how some tracked some accounts recently?
  2. They will still not reach the trending page as no one would vote for it. However 50cents was just an eg. we can set a limit to 1cent, 10cent etc.
  3. Some whales are taking advantage of it flagging people they hate, removing personal grudges. Or maybe we can set limits of flagging too, so nobody can flag to 0, as you know some have a powerful SP
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  1. Okay, you track them. Then what? We could easily track haejin posting random crap and vote it to the skies - how it helps us?
  2. You propose inflation and reward pool redistribution to minnows for ANY post that gets into blockchain. Actually need to think about it. It could be a nice idea.
  3. We could introduce flags that deplete upvote by a proportion like voting power. Voting power never reach zero, so would do sbd worth of ups.
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Sounds good to me... But problem is these need to get discussed in steemfests and meetups, then partying or ass kissing.. Steemfests seems like "Bilderberg" to me..

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That's probably true.

Bildelberg. LoL

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Flagging needs to be encouraged not removed. There has to be a way of dusting the spammers

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What about whales removing personal grudges on good content if someone tells them that they have posted shit, i have seen that happening. They go to their page, and start flagging their posts, which are not bad content at all.

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Present rules give them such power so they use it.

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That needs to be changed..

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If there was a limit on how much vest a whale can use to uvpote/downvote then the karma could get rebalanced by upvoters.
https://steemit.com/steem/@snowflake/history-is-a-great-teacher

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What about limiting how many times per week/month 1 users votes count towards another?

For example, if I upvote your comment or post today then upvote your comment or post tomorrow, the vote tomorrow doesn't count. This could help prevent bots from voting for the same user over and over again.

Of course it does have the problem of "just make more accounts." Perhaps it could be IP based as well? It wouldn't completely solve the problem but it could help mitigate it.

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IP based voting maybe could work on a Steemit.com or a busy.org level. But not on the blockchain.

Anyone could fork the steemit sourcecode from github, and run his or hers own server.

That wouldn't be overly difficult for the people who are currently gaming the system.

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That makes sense. Thank you for the expansion.

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I did not what does it mean until i saw your reply as i am new on steemit :) thanks.

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SOLID idea when it comes to if you vote the same account again and again your voting power drops more quickly

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I like the idea of limiting votes, but perhaps spreading the weight between votes could be better.

1 vote = 100% weight, 2 votes = 50% each, 3 votes 33.334% each, etc.

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.130 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.130 SBD from the community!

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@yallapapi you have pointed a great suggestion on this blog. you have a brilliant mind to come up to this.50/50 Curator and Author rewards is what I think a good solution that you mention above. Honestly speaking I believe on big future of Steem and like the whole crypto space is is still on infancy stage and need more improvement as time goes by and see what is working amd what is not... Great post

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People who are constantly “upset” need to stop whining and start trying to find a way to win.

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.075 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.075 SBD from the community!

Good points. Hopefully we can solve those problems.

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It has some issues. But I can totally see it working.

The way I see it is more like a closed group. Not like the @artzone approach, more like the @sndbox and @make-a-whale approach. Only the very best (MINNOWS) content producers can be here, and we combine that with a trail.

First, you open subscriptions for minnows to get a membership. Candidates should comply some requirements (A good reputation, a certain number of posts, etc.), then they are asked to create a special post for participating (Or perform a certain task) and then a group of highly respected steemians will select a few among them.

These few will be allowed to post once a day, and all their posts will be upvoted (Via trail) by participant whales and dolphins who delegate to the main account. A minimum payment is guaranteed.

An editor (or team) will be evaluating these posts (There won't be a lot of participants, so this task won't be hard) just to check everything is fine (It should because these minnows are the very best we could find).

In the rare case something goes wrong (Anything), then the curation team can decide NOT TO GIVE the rewards to this minnow, and distribute her/his share of rewards among the other minnows (Or whales). Then, kicked him out of the group.

There would be a renovation (Or ampliation) of the group of minnows every couple of months or so. How big or small this group can be, it depends on the delegation.

The other way to do it is to ask all minnows who would like to be considered for the upvote, to post using a certain tag, and then have a team of people dedicated to select the best posts. But there would be A LOT of posts everyday to evaluate.

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The way I see it is more like a closed group. Not like the @artzone approach, more like the @sndbox and @make-a-whale approach. Only the very best (MINNOWS) content producers can be here, and we combine that with a trail.

Yes.

First, you open subscriptions for minnows to get a membership. Candidates should comply some requirements (A good reputation, a certain number of posts, etc.), then they are asked to create a special post for participating (Or perform a certain task) and then a group of highly respected steemians will select a few among them.

Yes.

An editor (or team) will be evaluating these posts (There won't be a lot of participants, so this task won't be hard) just to check everything is fine (It should because these minnows are the very best we could find).

Yes. All posts are manually reviewed and edited. Only posts from whitelisted authors are accepted.

How big or small this group can be, it depends on the delegation.

I had 70 posts/week on the account in mind when I wrote this.

The other way to do it is to ask all minnows who would like to be considered for the upvote, to post using a certain tag, and then have a team of people dedicated to select the best posts. But there would be A LOT of posts everyday to evaluate.

No.

But other than that you nailed it.

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.072 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.072 SBD from the community!

Fully agree. Steem is ruined by the current rules. Something needs to be done to resolve these issues. Adding a decay factor for upvoting, for example, so you can not always upvote your friends or your own.

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👋

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.059 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.059 SBD from the community!

the base of the pyramid is pretty weak while the height is pretty high, in that case the pyramid will lost footing and will collapse, the same what will happen in steemit if we can't figure out how to distribute the reward fairly because the ordinary users are the one will save the swinging pyramid. If we achieved and keep the exponential numbers of users that what makes the steemit valuable.

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Nice pyramid metaphor.

I thought the primary goal was for Steemit to enable the long tail of topics and content. The thought of a small, but signigicant audience of minnows contributing to the value of a post in a specific niche. The reality that we have a few big whale 'gatekeepers' to success feels antithetical to a blog platform made for the people by the people via the blockchain.

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.059 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.059 SBD from the community!

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well @yallapapi you make a lot of good points i share the thought of lets make posts that everyone wins big and small, which is why i want to help grow my audience financially maybe today their vote is one cent but feeding them a little everyday these guys will come back and feed you!

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.056 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.056 SBD from the community!

👍👍👍👍

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.048 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.048 SBD from the community!

You got a 24.42% Upvote and Resteem from @ebargains, as well as upvotes from our curation trail followers!

If you are looking to earn a passive no hassle return on your Steem Power, delegate your SP to @ebargains by clicking on one of the ready to delegate links:
50SP | 100SP | 250SP | 500SP | 1000SP | 5000SP | Custom Amount

You will earn 80% of the voting service's earnings based on your delegated SP's prorated share of the service's SP pool daily! That is up to 38.5% APR! You can also undelegate at anytime.

We are also a very profitable curation trail leader on https://steemauto.com/. Follow @ebargains today and earn more on curation rewards!

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.037 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.037 SBD from the community!

Good initiative .. Good information
Great post from you
Thanks for sharing

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.029 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.029 SBD from the community!

With the upcoming 'communities'/hivemind, the best thing to put our money into are more curation teams imo. The team I'm with - SteemStem - doesn't provide once a month upvotes, we almost guarantee an upvote if your content meets our standards. If you post every day good stuff, you get money every day (Up to a certain % share of the VP).

But obviously we are limited to STEM and couldn't possibly apply this to all users on steem. If we had new teams dedicated to Literature, photography, travel, and so forth which whales delegated to, this would become much more applicable in the upcoming communities setup that steemit is building, and writers who want to get paid should become a part of those curation communities.

And that's the other thing; we have a community of well over 1,000 individuals many of whom engage in our discord community, making it much more than a curation team, but a space for likeminded people.

This is how the real world works, you network and work with those people who reward your skills and share your interests.

If somebody just writes a good 300 word post, that's not enough in itself to deserve $25 - that's what wordpress is for. No, an author needs a publisher, an editor, a mentor (we have those too in steemstem), a social media presence and so on to 'get the job'.

The issue here is that whales won't delegate to them because as you rightly point out - no incentive, but if there was a system where delegators get a share of the rewards, could be good. But there isn't, so...

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The model @yallapapi is proposing is basically this:

The authors would actually be hired by the entity. Like a membership group. The entity would be financially supported with whale delegations, and its purpose is to be monetized beyond Steemit on the long run. Every writer is evaluated before he gets in, every entry is evaluated before being posted, and every post is upvoted with the account's SP. So, in the end, this entity will be auto-sufficient, will pay writers, will return money to investors, will grow its SP and be able to monetize itself beyond rewards with sponsored posts, ads, creating a mailing list, maybe premium consulting or other services...

Think of it as a business website/blog, not as a steemit account. But with a nice founding-returning mechanism from scratch and being able to be escalated.

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.031 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.031 SBD from the community!

It would be great if this was implemented @yallapapi. It would help keep people on Steemit and provide a source of income for a lot of people. I know people like to create quality content, they just need more exposure.

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I agree that people need to get some exposure and something does need to change. But it’s doesn’t mean that they need to give up. A lot of whining doesn’t get anywhere presently and i think people need to start trying to “find a way” like really try.

Find groups and discord’s and autovote groups and private curation trails. They are there.

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I looked at some of your posts. Making .50 per post is not enough to live on. Unless you are monetizing them some other way? Let me check. Nope you’re not.

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I understand that but after 25 days I feel like I have made substantial progress compared to many others who have been doing this for under a month, maybe not? (yes my profile says Oct 2017 but i just started 25 days ago)

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.031 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.031 SBD from the community!

This proposition is good but its a herculean task to implement it fully. It needs real dedication and a team to upvote every minnow's posts and there should be standard to be followed on choosing which article deserve to be upvoted. Since there are hundreds if not thousand posts everyday and some of the article is not worth voting for, i mean they are just garbage.

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Agree - a herculean task.
Because you shouldn't solve technical problems with administrative means. Once the rules of the game are set you don't need administrative and curation efforts to enforce them.

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I’m not saying every minnow. I’m saying ones who are specifically approved getting upvotes for posts submitted to a publishing account

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I don't think it would be that hard. Use Steem Voter for automatically upvoting approved accounts and beneficiaries split of author rewards. Done. What is lacking is the willingness to set it up on the part of whales.

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Easily fixed with integrating the down vote system. this way minnows, dolphins and whales can have their say without flagging. Down voting could/can/will eliminate shitty posts being rewarded.
This will be an incentive as well, for a massive amount of people to go through garbage and down vote it, for it would be a part of the curation award system much like up voting. So within the 7 day period, the angry mob will hunt for bad content, get rewarded for down voting it if it's bad.
Bad moods and maliciousness will be equaled out as up voting is too an incentive for reward on curation activity for steem. Furthermore, up voting posts should give the author more steem, as well.

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Providing, obviously, every post gets rewarded immediately upon being posted.
This way, people can just post and post and post and post. The dark side of steemit will handle the quantifying effects of quality with down voting. Up voting secures automatic rewards on all posts, too many down votes, rewards are dropped. Additionally, Dolphin and Whale accounts can smash anything that ends up hot and trending due to all algorithm cheats in the system with their heavy down votes.

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Down voting trending trash will eliminate the poor quality of posts in the trending landing page as well, and avoid flag wars. I think this system is the only way to keep things decentralized as such the steemit community is holding so dear to. This provides methodology without rules and regulations, and control.

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Engaging further with myself;
Tagging will eliminate rewarding on memes, one word or one sentence posts that are more around the lines of "what's on your mind today" facebook style posts. This would be in an honor system fashion, though, cheaters of such that post a meme and ask steemit for automatic reward will ultimately receive a flag, which could silence the account for a matter of hours or days if such activity continues. Also, eliminating garbage getting rewarded from the steem pool.

:)
Ok, I think I'm done.
Peace.

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.028 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.028 SBD from the community!

You make the assumption that the ”minnows” necessarily deserve money.

This is always my biggest hangup in regards to this topic.

The vast majority of the minnows here produce absolute garbage. That’s a big reason they don’t get support.

Steemit is not supposed to be anybody’s socialist utopia.

When it comes to the Trending Authors here, we probably agree, so that’s the reason why I’m not diving into that right now.

It just rubs me the wrong way when people seem to insinuate that everybody deserves to get paid just because.

Also, it’s still possible to make decent payouts without the use of upvote bots.

By using them, you’re obviously supporting them, so it’s hypocritical to complain about them.

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You make the assumption that the ”minnows” necessarily deserve money

No. I am saying that I want to create an additional way for good writers to earn money from here. Not all minnows.

The vast majority of the minnows here produce absolute garbage. That’s a big reason they don’t get support

Agree that there is a lot of garbage, but even if they were to get “support” what would that look like? A $44 upvote from @curie once every two months?

Also, it’s still possible to make decent payouts without the use of upvote bots.

Hmm. I wasn’t aware of that. How exactly are you supposed to make consistently decent payouts without bidbots as a new account?

My proposal would allow a fresh account to start making money from day one, assuming they are approved as a contributor.

By using them, you’re obviously supporting them, so it’s hypocritical to complain about them

Brother, I can use something to my advantage and still see that there is a better way. And I’m not saying to get rid of them. This is like saying, “well you still haven’t divorced your wife, so it’s hypocritical to complain that she’s fat.”

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Hmm. I wasn’t aware of that. How exactly are you supposed to make consistently decent payouts without bidbots as a new account?

By networking. The nepotism can be seen as a problem in and of itself, but the problem (or ”problem”) of nepotism spans the entire scope of life, not just Steemit.

I don’t see a way to eliminate it.

And I personally upvote my friends, too. As do everybody here.

Some of the heavy hitters just have friends with more SP.

But if one wants big upvotes, he needs to network with the right people.

I hear Steemfest is a good place to suck cock.

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By networking. The nepotism can be seen as a problem in and of itself, but the problem (or ”problem”) of nepotism spans the entire scope of life, not just Steemit

Yep I guess you’ll always have a little bit of that. My posts isn’t a call for a revolution. If anything it’s mix between an open letter to high SP accounts and business proposal.

I’m in this to make money like everyone else. But with this solution I tried to think of a way where more people win and there is no extra work involved. Except for me. Which I don’t mind to do because I’ll control the account. If it works, then it can be expanded.

As for sucking cock, I prefer to get my protein from other sources.

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I’d also like to add that you’re not supposed to make it big on social media ”from day one”. Stuff like this is hard.

We probably agree on a lot of stuff when it comes to the problems on Steemit, but I’m just giving a different perspective.

I made $0 at the beginning consistently, but I was new, so I didn’t complain. That’s how it goes when you’re the new kid in school.

Then I was in the triple digits, but pissed the wrong people off, and will probably never make anything substantial here ever again.

But I knew it going in.

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I’d also like to add that you’re not supposed to make it big on social media ”from day one”. Stuff like this is hard.

That’s not what I’m saying. I’m creating a solution that will let people earn reliable income from writing REGARDLESS of their reputation on here.

Then I was in the triple digits, but pissed the wrong people off, and will probably never make anything substantial here ever again.

What do they say? When one door closes, another opens.

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That’s not what I’m saying. I’m creating a solution that will let people earn reliable income from writing REGARDLESS of their reputation on here.

We have different philosophies. I see zero need for something like that. In fact, I find all Steemit posts to be grossly overrewarded, including mine. I’ll take the money since it’s there, but looking at it objectively, there’s no reason for anything here to earn a cent.

But that’s just me.

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These are not regular steemit posts. They are niche articles that represent the whale’s brand. There is a massive market for articles in the world. This is not something I made up.

Think of it like a gig marketplace where users are paid a fixed amount out of the small part of the reward pool that a given whale controls.

It’s a business. Not a charity.

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.019 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.019 SBD from the community!

There is just one problem with this master plan of yours.

A lot of people here has a misconception about the quality of posts.

They don't see any reason why their posts are of sub-quality/(not the HuffPost quality).

Believe me, when I started on steemit, I used to write/edit for a few accounts here, who were not native English speakers, so they welcomed my help and paid a few sbd for it.

But after a while, they figured that quality posts have nothing to do with the earnings here. So they kicked my ass out.

There is a 0% chance here that a high quality post will earn more money than a low quality post.

People have got so used to the general sub quality posts here that they feel if a post has more than 600 words, it is of high quality, and it doesn't matter if those 600 words mean anything or they are ultimate bullshit.

So the thing is, unless we have some whales, who are serious content consumers, nothing can be done to improve the quality of posts here.


BTW, I love people who are looking for solutions instead of just complaining, and you tried for a good solution, so cheers!
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There is just one problem with this master plan of yours.

A lot of people here has a misconception about the quality of posts.

They don't see any reason why their posts are of sub-quality/(not the HuffPost quality).

There will be strict guidelines for post submissions. Look at any legitimate publication for countless examples.

So the thing is, unless we have some whales, who are serious content consumers, nothing can be done to improve the quality of posts here.

No. The writers are not writing so the whale has something interesting to read while he takes a shit. They're doing it to create massive amounts of content for him around a certain niche that can be monetized in dozens of ways IN ADDITION TO the payouts from SBD/SP.

BTW, I love people who are looking for solutions instead of just complaining, and you tried for a good solution, so cheers!

Yay. Go me.

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So you believe that this will work?

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If it is implemented on a large enough scale the ln yes, absolutely

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Quality is also hard to quantify. I have seen posts in my niche diving who wouldn't make it past an editor but who are interesting for me.

I think adding communities where you have like minded readers would also help but off course this is easier to establish in a small niche like diving then in the big communities like travel where you need a higher level of quality to jump out.

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That's true!

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At some point, quality is subjective. Sure, there are obvious shitposts, but I've seen great articles presenting great concepts once I get past the punctuation and grammar from people who are writing English as a second language.

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I agree fully. Not only quality is subjective, but also, people do not take the time to analyze the standards that make a post good or bad. Hence how people think long posts have high quality. But I think there is another problem with @yallapapi 's solution. It is to make these people (whales and dolphins) come to an agreement. They have no incentive to do so, just like in any societal system. As such, I think it will only occur if the people underneath them put the pressure on them. Some form of revolution. I have no idea how to do so in a peaceful and orderly manner, any suggestions are accepted.

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Revolutions are seldom peaceful!

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But I think there is another problem with @yallapapi 's solution. It is to make these people (whales and dolphins) come to an agreement. They have no incentive to do so, just like in any societal system.

The incentive for them is to have a business passively built for them from scratch, or one that complements whatever business they already have in addition to more payouts from using their SP.

As such, I think it will only occur if the people underneath them put the pressure on them. Some form of revolution. I have no idea how to do so in a peaceful and orderly manner, any suggestions are accepted.

Here's a suggestion: no.

There is no way to "pressure" them into doing what you want. They are essentially doing the equivalent of plundering a dictator's economy before the country falls apart.

The "incentive" to them is the following:

  1. Create a content-based business around a certain niche (crypto, health, make money online, dating)
  2. Leverage that content into a business
  3. Leverage their goodwill among their new writers
  4. Run paid advertising campaigns for brands via articles on their account
  5. Be the first ones to transform the reward pool into a gig marketplace
  6. Make even more money from their SP/delegation

Basically, more money for less work. And a solid business that will last even after this platform dies.

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Complaining does nothing. Either help the solution or try and play the game and win at it.

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.017 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.017 SBD from the community!

I have a couple of thoughts. I like your solutions: I think high SP accounts are incentivized to upvoted themselves, I think there should be more of a split between the curator, the author, and upvoters. For minnows: what if a certain minnow got 20+ upvotes, they should get a reward once they hit a certain threshold. I agree minnows are grossly underpaid and deserve at least $25 for an amazing article - which is what most content writers get. I agree there is a flaw in the system and I'm glad you are here to do something about it! Cheers.

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.015 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.015 SBD from the community!

This is an amzing idea and a good solution to keep people here in steemit, because it's really shame that only the most upvoted posts by bots are in trending and hot page but not those who are commented more or the best content. Not just native speakers need to be rewarded, others also if they did their best to write a post. I am personnally not a native speaker but I spend sometimes a few hours writing a post and my wife since she is an English teacher, she correct it for me.

This is really important post and an amazing idea, it deserve to be on the top, I upvoted it with my 100% and resteemed and I will share it in my group with more than19.500 steemit users. Thanks. ☺

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I’m still new but I make 24 cents on each post and I don’t have that much steem power

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.015 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.015 SBD from the community!

@yallapapi you are writing a lot, bringing the idea, you are not creating rules.

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.015 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.015 SBD from the community!

I haven't up-voted any of your stuff for a while, but this time, I think you are definitely making sense. I also like that you don't make excuses, like some others I've seen lately.

You really nailed the core of the problem. I confess, I've let my posting trail off as the rewards just aren't there. My work is contract based, so I am reluctant to use my savings buying bidbot votes. And I can't afford to spend too much time writing for steemit when I could be doing something else that pays me much more.

I mean, I can get paid $50 AUD an hour by a university just for grading papers (and a lot more for writing lectures). Or I can write for other publications that might not pay much in the form of $, but have other benefits, such as the fact that they reach a readership that's useful for me, such as academics who might employ me one day, or journalists who want to interview me about something. Steemit does neither of these things for me - and I know I'm not the only one. Which is why this comment isn't longer - I'm off to earn some actual money.

Keep thinking along these lines. I'll be interested to see what (if anything) response you get from the big stakeholders.

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Wololo!

(RandoHealer has healed this post because your blog was targeted for healing due to malicious downvotes!)

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You really nailed the core of the problem. I confess, I've let my posting trail off as the rewards just aren't there. My work is contract based, so I am reluctant to use my savings buying bidbot votes. And I can't afford to spend too much time writing for steemit when I could be doing something else that pays me much more.

I mean, I can get paid $50 AUD an hour by a university just for grading papers (and a lot more for writing lectures). Or I can write for other publications that might not pay much in the form of $, but have other benefits, such as the fact that they reach a readership that's useful for me, such as academics who might employ me one day, or journalists who want to interview me about something. Steemit does neither of these things for me - and I know I'm not the only one. Which is why this comment isn't longer - I'm off to earn some actual money.

Pay attention people, because this guy just affirmed everything I've said in way fewer words. People have no incentive to break their fingers writing shit on here when they can do the same thing somewhere else and earn real money.

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.012 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.012 SBD from the community!

Congrats, you made the #steemitminute for today!

Click the Image Below to see the Video!

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Damn. Now I know I’ve finally made it

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You were always here! Thanks for the great article!

Once Steemit fixes a couple problems, it will CHANGE THE WORLD!!

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.011 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.011 SBD from the community!

Great idea! Now to find the willing participants at the top of the food chain. I'm excited to see how this progresses because, as you said, it only takes one or two to get the ball rolling.

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It will happen, the tipping point is close

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.011 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.011 SBD from the community!

Wow such an informative post

Congratulations, you have been upvoted by insta-ßus


The curation team that never sleeps.
You're welcome to participate in our initiative in promoting quality content creators on the platform to get upvotes and improve on content creating.

Join here on discord on

Insta-ßus

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.010 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.010 SBD from the community!

@yallapapi first I think SharkSchool is amazing. Now that's out the way as a plankton coming into Steem I was originally attracted by the mistaken charm of making money to post, I mean who would not be !right!. I shortly found that only whales would eat good and the plankton would stay small until they put in large amounts of work.

Taking into perspective what I saw going on and what I noticed about every big post(tons of bots and self promoting), I jumped in. Quickly tossing in my own cash to grow my SP only to realize a couple hundred bucks did nothing to increase my vote/self vote as I had almost no followers at the time.

Next it was time to make a choice, cake up and go home, be food for the sharks, or make my own pool to swim in. So I started digging, the results was my own #communitygrowthproject. By doing this i was able to promote big groups, tag accredited authors, and support other small plankton's/minnows.

By doing this my growth elevated, and awarded me some Steem to lease some SP though it was not huge, I was now able to grant rewards to others. I stopped self voting and started looking for content from anyone and everyone, re-blogging, and up voting with a minimal of .01 no matter the weight it took. Rinse, repeat, and do it again.

Along the way I can identify with a lot of what you said, small fish don't eat, bots make post hot, and whales while its many that help, there are many whom just vote for pools.

From the bottom looking up a few things you said, like resteem to the whale users, drop a name or comment even if its just a my five favorite minnows of the week type post. Start an instructional discord group to teach minnows to think like whales and swim like dolphins while they are still minnows, and last but not least support good content and share it.

However something that whales could also do to help is delegate to a few minnows enough SP to help them stabilize. Now I know not everyone knows how to use the voting system out the gate, and no one wants there SP abused but 100 or so SP for a week or two can go a long way.

Anyway in closing you are spot on about a lot of issues, personally I am looking forward to the Steem communities update as that will help a lot of small fish eat. But in the mean time if you see some minnows that are quality drop my name so I can find them. I have found some amazing groups that help teach writing, networking, and growth on Steem.

I would love to help small and new Steem members get connected to groups in there niche, and showcase there work to everyone I can. It's always good to see people at the top concerned about the bottom as it makes for a more sustainable ecosystem. I mean we all have to eat somehow.

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This is a great idea and I admit, I will be the first one to sign up for the writing gigs in the future. Thank you @yallapapi for bringing this up!!

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.009 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.009 SBD from the community!

It's easy to say but difficult to implement

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This is the very helpfu post @yallapapi.

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Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.006 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.006 SBD from the community!

Thank you for your helpful post @yallapapi.