A look at transparency and hiding beneath the surface

in #steemit6 years ago

This morning I came across an interesting new bot in my feed, @transparencybot. You can see their introduction post here.

The basic idea is that it leaves a comment on posts that have been upvoted via known bidbots past 50 dollars in value. It shows the bots that they use and the amounts that they have been voted.

For example:
transparency.PNG

The post currently has ~$105 on it and I randomly selected it. Is it worth 105 from the pool? You be the judge of this introduction post. Now, this person who's first post on the platform was 3 days ago now has a reputation of 50 but by the looks of things, if left to the organic votes on the post, they would be lucky to break 30. Also note, the misspelling of the tags. It is a Spanish post sure, so it is possible but, it is also a common way for bidbot users to avoid detection as the misspelling reduces the odds of getting views. Remember though that the claim is for more eyes on. Keep an eye on tags.

This is an introduction post. I have been skimming the introduceyourself tag the last few days (spelled correctly at least) and finding that many introduction posts are bidbot voted. These people are new to the platform (or have started a new account) and not only know about, but use bidbots freely. At what point did they try engaging with the audience? This brings up some other questions for some other time perhaps but you have to question what they know about the platform and their expectations on how to use it.

Back to @transparencybot. The comments section is the most important part of the bot at the moment since for the most part, you are not going to see these posts otherwise. $50 dollars is not large enough to get them into trending and if their tags are misspelled, they won't even make it into a tag trending page other than their misspelled tag. They will fly under the radar, hidden from view. This is where the pool is really pulled.

@transparencybot has 247 comments at the moment in the last ~3 days. At the bare minimum of 50 dollars, that is ~$12500 SBD worth of upvotes. At the bare minimum. Now, remember that all of those trending posts are much higher plus, everything in between. Now, how many votes are cast below that 50 dollar mark?

People talk about distribution but remember that about 80% of the value is paid in liquid SBD to the bidbot and its owners/delegators and what they pay back to the author is from the pool. Blind. From that return, the bots also earn curation. Like always they can say value is in the eye of the beholder and this I think is the point of the @transparency bot.

I myself cannot judge what has value or not other than in my own view but, remembering that the number one reason for flagging is disagreement on rewards, transparency needs to happen. However, many of the people who are using the bidbots don't have adequate peer review because, they don't have peers. I have looked through a few now and they have low follower counts and when I look at the lists, I do not recognise one name. Sure, it is a big system, I don't know all of my followers either but, this points to something.

All of these lower rewarded posts are not going to be seen by the parts of the community that might care and have the power and willingness to review and therefore have almost no chance of being flagged. However, the transparency bot comments section offers that chance and I recommend people take the time to go through and review some of the posts in comparison to the payouts they are getting. Also remember that it is content in regards to payout, regardless of whether a bot was used. If you think a post is worth more than the bot votes, vote it up further. If not...

This happens all the way down to the smallest bidbot payouts. Yes, the largest are visible in Trending but that is likely the tip of the iceberg. This is why they want to focus attention on the trending section as there is still a massive amount of value below the surface. It is likely that even as we speak, people are adjusting their bids so as not to cross the $50 threshold and bring undue attention to themselves. Funnily enough, the operator of @transparencybot has used bots himself. Radical transparency?

The transparency of the system is necessary for a whole range of reasons, not just flags as it encourages uses to interact more honestly rather than be hidden in the shadows. But, just like governments and shadow governments, transparency of action is not the best way to enact nefarious plans. It is all about flying under the radar. Right now, the bidbots are in the spotlight and they are finding ways to take the focus off themselves. Just like a lizard that drops its tail when threatened, they will cut off Trending.

People might not like seeing all the dirt but it is necessary in order to clean up. Sweeping it under the rug and pretending it doesn't exist doesn't make it go away. Perhaps as time goes on, the transparency apps, bots and actions of actual community orientated people might be the force that drives changed behaviours in the long term.

It used to be very difficult to find the content gems buried under the trash and give them the value they are worth. That problem has been made infinitely harder by the trash taking large chunks of the pool that might go to those posts. On top of that, the trash taking that value are finding ever more ways to take all they can and hide their trash amongst all the rest of the trash so there is very little chance to claim it back. The gems are buried, trash rewarded.

It is a trash fest as the real content that would pass a decent peer review gets lost and the content that already has eyes on and consistent quality gets left out in the cold value-wise. I don't have the solutions to all of these issues but we need to be able to see them as issues if we are to do anything about them at all. That takes transparency. Perhaps in time, there will be options that actually help to uncover, promote and support quality community authors instead of blind voters but right now, all we have is the potential transparency of the current situations and if you have a decent look, it isn't very pretty for the most part.

What would you think if this post had $1000 dollars on it? 700? 500? 200? What is it worth? Should I be the judge on how much it takes from the pool you drink from?

Taraz
[ a Steemit original ]

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I have always had a lenient stance on bots. I always considered the steemit platform a platform with a choice.
But the truth is that these past few days I have come across so much bot abuse that I am rethinking my stance. The bot votes are inflating the value of low value content way past ridiculous. Some of this bot voted content is downright trash that would never for a minute, garner attention of serious steemians.
It is not the bot that are worrying me. It is the negative effect that they are having on long term viability of steemit for serious users.

indeed, the amount of value on what under review would likely not hold value at all is incredible. Trending trash really is the tip of the iceberg. The worst quality posts won't vote themselves up that high to avoid detection and instead post more than one crappy post to distribute it.

Yeah, that sounds logical. Post more trash but with low value bot upvotes.............economies of scale.

If you don't like it and you don't think it belongs on steemit, flag it. Period. This is how steemit users define what is allowed or disallowed on the platform.

YOU have the power to decide whether this bot is useful or not. We can all decide to flag it, or we can all decide we like seeing when people are using upvote bots to artificially boost their content's popularity.

It is important for the sake of transparency to let users know when people have paid to have their content artificially reach the top of the "Trending" list. On any other platform we are informed when something is an advertisement, and it should be no different on steemit.

However, a bot that posts comments may not be the best method of making this happen. Perhaps we can come up with a better alternative.

As it stands currently, however, I see no alternative being presented. So I like this bot FOR NOW. Ideally, in my opinion, posts should not be allowed to reach the top "trending" tag if they have had over a certain threshhold of bots upvoting the content. The reason being because it makes the community think this has been voted on by real people and is good content worth viewing, when in reality it was just paid promotions and should be on the "Promoted" tab, not on the top trending.

But this is a complex topic so we all have to decide together what we want to see on this platform. Remember, we ALL have the power to shape this platform the way we see fit by voting and flagging content.

However, a bot that posts comments may not be the best method of making this happen. Perhaps we can come up with a better alternative.

I think they will be marked in the future but this is an interim 'solution'. No one user can change the interface.

As it stands currently, however, I see no alternative being presented. So I like this bot FOR NOW.

I should read further... ;)

Remember, we ALL have the power to shape this platform the way we see fit by voting and flagging content.

Yep. The small accounts are waiting for the large to do the work but, they have a lot more power than they realise if they work as part of the community.

I actually tried a bot(very low amount like 1SBD) the other day. I feel like bots are cheating, but even when you do quality work it never moves up simply because everyone is botting.
It is sad, because I'll see posts with 200$ on them, open them, and they have 3 views... Yes 3 views....

It blew my mind, this is content we see first I was hoping to find some amazing content in them to improve the layout of my own posts(the ones I actually try on). Yet it was sad because I couldn't.

I will say even @Bycoleman has been very open about his bot use, and even recently decided to stop using them. Massive respect to that.

Personally me using such a small amount did increase my organic reach and I was able to engage and interact with new people(which I assume was initially the point of the bots as well).

Botting is a double edged sword, on the one hand we can use it almost like ads and bring new people to our content we otherwise would have missed, and thanks to transparency we can show we are paying for bots.

On the other because of that ease of use many will take advantage of it, and sadly we miss out on great content, from amazing producers.

All in all, I am very pro @transparencybot

@bycoleman I am glad it is getting such feedback, in such an emerging technology, we have to stay ahead of those who will abuse the system, and take the money out of it before we have real consumer adoption.
We have to be cautious on how we let those take advantage of the system that has been created, and what you have built will fuel that discussion. Think in just these past few days so many people are now taking sides, it's needed desperately, once people become aware of a problem, we can have a more inclusive discussion on the solutions.

@tarazkp
Yeah, I do wonder if it was organic without the bot or because of it, for sure.

On the note of views, yes I have noticed that, I'll have 100-200 views, and 5 or 6 upvotes. I also note the viewcount is showing those who do not yet have a steemit.
Which is I am sure where most of my views come from, and I am always grateful for those who find my trading and other tips valuble here, and on any other platform.

What I am happy to say though is thanks to my lurking around and seeing bycoleman and and his bidbots posts I am now starting to find quality content producers and learning to actually write a bit better for my posts.

Always been a speaker, so writing has been a challenge. So thank you guys for producing quality content for me to enjoy and learn from!

Thank you Joe, inclusive discussions are indeed needed. Of course, interim actions can be implemented that are less than perfect.

No decision is a decision. It is indeed time to respond to the best of our ability.

Thank you for the support an kind words!

Blessings!

@thatguyjoe,

You have articulated this very well, thank you. I'm very humbled by the amount of discussion that @transparency has brought forward.

I thank you and everyone who is truly looking at this complex situation with an open minded stance that allows long term solutions to be discovered and implemented.

Blessings!

It is sad, because I'll see posts with 200$ on them, open them, and they have 3 views... Yes 3 views....

Yep. when they play with the numbers they will play with averages I think which means that the big names that use bots will skew the results. I have seen some very high rewards on some very low views.

Personally me using such a small amount did increase my organic reach and I was able to engage and interact with new people(which I assume was initially the point of the bots as well).

Hard to tell if it was the bot though isn't it ;)

This view counter is not accrate by the way and will register every open, even by the poster. That means even the person who posted it is included in those three views. :D

Cheetah would be the second.

Good bot. I would like all bidbot posts to have that. I don't vote for any posts that have bitdbots used. I only know the big ones, so the small ones I don't notice... :/

It is a decent bot and with some tweaks and perhaps some cooperation between parties, it could create some interesting dynamics.

yeah, it is hard at times especially when they use the posting keys of the accounts to post directly or when they order bots after the votes.

I didn't knew about that bot, its a good one because its useful, its much easier for people wanting to identify bot abuse if they simply check that bot comment sections.

It makes one question the values of the community, when these bots have huge delegations while @curie is in need of those same delegations... , and I suspect the reason they cannot pay the market rate for delegations is because of bid bots and their higher revenue.

Nevertheless, I think this platform is strong enough, and this issue will eventually be overcome.

It makes one question the values of the community, when these bots have huge delegations while @curie is in need of those same delegations... , and I suspect the reason they cannot pay the market rate for delegations is because of bid bots and their higher revenue.

Many unanswered questions. Many better projects that need either support, trails, or delegations. Curation isn't enough anymore, +20 -30% a year isn't enough anymore.

Nevertheless, I think this platform is strong enough, and this issue will eventually be overcome.

I hope so too but like the future conversation the other day, it can't be left to chance.

It commented on one of my posts that had been botted with 3 different bots and had reached above 50.

I replied to the bot that it took me 2 weeks to gather the information, more than 2 days in drafting it and about 3 hours in transforming the document to a steemit ready blog post.
At first I was a bit peeved that it appeared in my post and although it had part of its blurb that it was not judging the content of my post but was just pointing out the use of bots.

The bids I used are very small and only contributed 1/4 of the post. Most of it had come from other users and people who saw the value of my post (it was about witnesses)

Was I wrong to use bots for some form of visibility on a tag I don't think so.

I had proposed to bid-bot owners the idea of having manual eyes take a look at bids that are 20 dollars or more in order to make sure that what trended are not shit posts. Their should be a more regulated use of bots and people realize its proper use.

Am I against a stop of bots in general not at this point because the platform is still changing and with changes it can either be good or bad but we know things will change with hivemind and communities.

I had proposed to bid-bot owners the idea of having manual eyes take a look at bids that are 20 dollars or more in order to make sure that what trended are not shit posts. Their should be a more regulated use of bots and people realize its proper use.

Again, as much as I would love to see 'all organic' I am not naive. The current system is just not tenable in the long-term or for a healthy community platform. The problem with manual curators is they need to be paid and that eats profits because they can't be coded into the 'law'.

but we know things will change with hivemind and communities.

My worry is it will just hide the issues, out of sight, out of mind.

I am open to many variations and suggestions but its current form is harming more than the pool, it is taking away the connections and engagement necessary to build a community in its foundational stages. Even if it distributes Stem, what will the community be filled with guitar guys?

I've noticed that bot, too ... and I am a big fan immediately!

I don't see anything wrong with using voting bots per-se, given the economic environment and the broken "promoted" functionality on steem it is a legit way to advertise posts and make a decent return that helps building a minnow account.

That said, there are also plenty enough legitimate reasons to pay a post into trending and get it seen as much as possible...

BUT

first of all, human viewers should be able to distinguish between human curation and paid curation.

second, bot operators need to fucking start being more responsible, establish reasonable usage limits and quality inspection procedures to blacklist serial abuse.

back to the topic... transparency should be created wherever possible, especially on a "proof-of-brain" blockchain!

I don't see anything wrong with using voting bots per-se, given the economic environment and the broken "promoted" functionality on steem it is a legit way to advertise posts and make a decent return that helps building a minnow account.

If the post isn't deserving of the amount, it shouldn't get that amount. The promotional aspect falls down very quickly if the posts don't hit trending. 50 dollar posts don't unless they are in an obscure tag and then, who checks them?

second, bot operators need to fucking start being more responsible, establish reasonable usage limits and quality inspection procedures to blacklist serial abuse.

code is law <<< which means, we can do it, no one can stop us. kind of like 1940 Berlin or slavery in North America. Law is law.

back to the topic... transparency should be created wherever possible, especially on a "proof-of-brain" blockchain!

This is the crux, and it isn't the reality.

If the post isn't deserving of the amount, it shouldn't get that amount.

But that's after all a very subjective matter, we can't embed quality standards in "code". For all I know some people might think a re-posted meme is worth $50 just because it made them laugh a little. On the same matter, nothing speaks against down-voting such posts either.

but really is code law? I believe consensus is. But yeah, ultimately it's the same as with Berlin or Slavery... the question is will enough people stand up or will the sheeple follow in fear of missing out or getting in trouble?

It's really just the tragedy-of-the-commons playing out all over again, too many shortsighted individuals focused on short term gains without any appreciation of longer term sustainability-risks.

I for one see plenty enough reasons to buy votes for profit and for visibility (sub $50 still gets you into "hot" for a lot of popular tags etc and if nothing else it's still accelarating account growth - also the voting power is for sale, if I don't buy some, these shameless people like this "artist" will just take an even bigger share - etc etc etc)

I see a bigger threat in other aspects of this ecosystem like the growing "dept-ratio" with SBD never being converted into STEEM via the on-chain mechanisms etc... but that's a completely different discussion...

If someone asked me what to do about it -> fix the damn promoted feature and peg those SBDs!!

but I digress... transparency on paid votes is without a doubt a good thing... I believe the bot should maybe even lower the threshold and start reporting 5$ and up... If someone buys votes, they should own it, and too many vote bots went stealth "to avoid being spammy"...

well... spam is another discussion yet again... many things are in dismay in steem-topia!

But that's after all a very subjective matter, we can't embed quality standards in "code". For all I know some people might think a re-posted meme is worth $50 just because it made them laugh a little.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@tarazkp/worth-it-or-not-lessons-from-zuckerberg

On the same matter, nothing speaks against down-voting such posts either.

they have to be seen to be reviewed for downvoting, indroduseyoursel, or whatever it was probably isn't going to get seen. Plus, there has to be the will to flag without earning (which historically has been left to bernie and now grumpycat etc) and the spare stake to burn (which is 'tied up' currently). If this was less widespread and the old large curators were still in the waters, the chances of many more flags would increase but, many of the old curators delegate to the bots.

I see a bigger threat in other aspects of this ecosystem like the growing "dept-ratio" with SBD never being converted into STEEM via the on-chain mechanisms etc... but that's a completely different discussion...

Doesn't this tie in with the bidbots taking SBD?

but I digress... transparency on paid votes is without a doubt a good thing... I believe the bot should maybe even lower the threshold and start reporting 5$ and up... If someone buys votes, they should own it,

It would have 3000 comments a day. ;)

and too many vote bots went stealth "to avoid being spammy"...

Too much done via stealth here.

I'm a big fan of @transparencybot, and hope they continue to get the support needed to defend them against people who are upset at having their use of bidbots pointed out.

I note a couple of things:

  1. Some people here are only fans of free speech when it suits them.
  2. People say they are doing this for 'visibility' or to 'get seen', but I don't think the number of views really bears this out. I'm fairly certain there are cheaper ways to get content in front of people.

Some people here are only fans of free speech when it suits them.

Yes, when it benefits them to have it. Otherwise, repression is king.

People say they are doing this for 'visibility' or to 'get seen', but I don't think the number of views really bears this out. I'm fairly certain there are cheaper ways to get content in front of people.

I have a feeling the numbers they will use to show this are skewed in several ways as highly visible authors use them too which will skew numbers and people will see them and share them in chats (people send some to me) based on the 'look at this crap and the level of reward). It is also possible that the authors themselves skew the numbers using refresh. The view counter is useless. Perhaps if unique visitor url were used it would be a bit more accurate, still gamable though.

PLEASE STOP TROLLING MY PAGE - @transparencybot @bycoleman & @tarazkp. You have three different accounts worth a total of 25000 Steem Power. You are upvoting your own comments and then making 70 cents per comment. Please leave my page alone. Your intentions regarding people abusing bots (with lack of quality content) is a worthy cause. However spamming pages with your "Transparency Bot" with original content is exactly that . . . SPAM.

Never in my life or years in crypto would I expect to see someone call Radical Transparency, spam.

Like legit the things we have fought for, Privacy with our money, Transparency in our data, and decentralization of our lives... The fundamentals of what we have all been trying to build, called spam.....

That's actually incredibly sad.

I left a comment on your other post but it has nothing to do with trolling and I have nothing to do with @transparencybot (if you read this post). It lets people know of large bidbot votes though, something I see as a community service as currently, there is no way to label it 'promoted'.

The votes you buy are drawing on a community pool which means your content is up for community review. If people do not think it is worth what it is drawing from the pool, they have a chance to flag the post. But, if they never see the post, they don't. That is why transparency is important. You might not agree with the bot but, many might not agree with the value on your post. However, some might think you deserve more.

If no one cares, you don't get flagged which is likely because people are inactive. If your content is worth it, you don't get flagged either. If it is crap and some one thinks it is not worth over 50 dollars, you might get flagged. That but has sent out almost 300 comments in 3 days to bidbot votes over 50 dollars, don't take it personally, it is just for transparency. That benefits us all.

@tarazkp let's not deceive ourselves. There is no transparency on Steemit. Kindly leave those who are using bidbots alone. It is their money and they have a right to spend it anyhow they wish.

If people like you were not more interested in self voting than they are in upvoting good contents from unknown people there would be no need for bid bots. Instead, those with huge SP want people to lick their boots before they upvote, so why will bid bots not thrive?

If bid bots must be stopped then self upvote too must stop. For me, that is the real transparency not the foul cry about innocent people using bid bots.

Regards

Before you go on, I have a paid delegation that I cover the cost of but, I return a lot more into the community than that and have done for a very long time. My delegation costs are fixed, which requires me to cover them regardless of the price of Steem.

Have you had a look at my content? Have you had a look at my comments sections? Have you had a look at the discussions? Now, go and have a look at many of the bidbot voted posts with much higher rewards. They are all drawing from the same pool. Their bought vote on their often low quality, largely useless content is drawing on the pool that the organic, human curators can use to vote on quality content. That pool is where your value comes from too.

It is their money and they have a right to spend it anyhow they wish.

This is the thing people keep saying about stake isn't it? Use it as you wish. I ahve earned my stake with a lot of hard work and I wished to upvote a comment from a community service bot. Freedom. I can also use it to flag if I choose.

If bid bots must be stopped then self upvote too must stop. For me, that is the real transparency not the foul cry about innocent people using bid bots.

I agree to some degree but, if you look at the pull on the pool from the bidbots, the manual curators don't have a lot of power anymore. Many of the ones who do delegate to bid bots. What is happening is the destruction of community for short-term profit.

You are entitled to your views, as am I.

Well, it's nice reading your view on this matter. While I am entitled to my opinion as well as you are entitled to yours, let it known that bid bots are not as bad as people make it seem.

I have to go now.
Sellah.

Bid bots are actually truly bad. Aside from the fact that they contribute to draining the pool, they also take money for it.

Maybe you may think this little part of the Wild Wild West (the www) is a short-term money grab but long-term bid bots are detrimental to the platform because they create a lopsided economy which attracts only short-term focused investors. AKA vultures.

If that works for you, that's fine but then you also have to understand that there are people who see a long-term potential value in steem.

We need no apologies, we need a possible future and that requires that the bot situation will at some point be taken care of because eventually bots will be the only ones to distribute rewards as popularity grows. To spread the community reward pool that means.

I appreciate your contrary views. I will respond appropriately when it is time.

The bid bots are even worse than they seem. Not only are they stealing rewards from genuine creators of worthwhile content, they are poisoning the STEEM environment through outright dishonesty. No one wants to play in a dirty sandbox and the bots are working overtime at poisoning the sandbox as well as the STEEM atmosphere.

The failure of technology is that the creators forget that, just because you CAN do something does not mean that it is moral to actually do it.

I understand your concerns, really. I am just surprised that we are making storm out of a teapot

It may be perspective. If you are IN the teapot, the storm takes on a different importance.

VERY well said. Picking on the minnows is not only 'bully' behavior but also pathetic.

It is even a storm in a tea pot if you ask me.

Yep. Just looking to cause trouble.

He who comes to equity must come with clean hands. I just check your blog posts now and noticed that you are a serial self upvoter, although you don't use bid bots. You get an average of $13 SBD per post. Fantastic!

Not everyone is as lucky as you are. There are many people out there with $0.01 vote value. Have you thought about how frustrating it is for them when so much efforts are put into a post and the author gets only $0.05 payouts? Do you know that bidbots are key to the success of Steemit because it is an economy of its own? What happens if all the bid bots withdraw their SP from Steemit?

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
-African Proverb.

Regards.

You get an average of $13 SBD per post.

Not everyone is as lucky as you are.

Here, read the numbers.
25668 upvotes given (manual)
7123 comments (manual)
1493 posts (original)

I have been doing this for a while now quite consistently. At times, luck plays a role and at times, one has to do the hard work for luck to have an effect.

http://steemitboard.com/board.html?user=tarazkp

What happens if all the bid bots withdraw their SP from Steemit?

Do you know what happens if all SP on the platform delegates to bidbots?

here:
https://steemit.com/steemit/@tarazkp/10-little-idiots-trying-to-answer-or-if-everyone-delegates-to-bidbots

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
-African Proverb.

Indeed they shouldn't.

PEOPLE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULDN'T THROW STONES - "Those who are vulnerable should not attack others. The proverb has been traced back to Geoffrey Chaucer's 'Troilus and Criseyde' . George Herbert wrote in 1651: 'Whose house is of glass, must not throw stones at another.' This saying is first cited in the United States in 'William & Mary College Quarterly' . Twenty-six later Benjamin Franklin wrote, 'Don't throw stones at your neighbors', if your own windows are glass.' 'To live in a glass house' is used as a figure of speech referring to vulnerability."

Well, I have to admit that you are a great Steemian after reading through your contributions to this community. I give my salute. However, your humanitarian acts do not make you right on this issue of bid bots usage. Unfortunately, I have a lot to say on this matter of @transparencybot which, as a critic, I should respond to in a lengthy article, soon. Of course, I will send you the link.

Meanwhile, let me say that if there are no bid bots, Steemit will fall into a situation where those with huge SP will have to be worshipped and bootlicked before they upvote the posts of unknown authors even when such posts are written by William Shakespeare. Sir, do you have a solution to such looming feudal system if bid bots are banned?

Do you also know that part of the demand for SBD and STEEM is generated by people who want to pay for bot services? How do you replace such demand for SBD and STEEM if there are no bid bots?

I have many more questions to ask in my article, which I hope to publish soon.

Regards.

looking forward to it. you can find me on discord or steem.chat

There is no problems. I will check you up. How do I locate you on discord? I don't really use it.

tarazkp on both chat platforms.

Nice post on this important topic. What strikes me is that if new users use the bots extensively, they have to bring some SBD from an exchange as an investment. Or they are all side/alt accounts? Interesting. 🤔

It is kind of interesting isn't it? SBD has high prices, bidbots really only take SBD. The people buying in however really only have to buy once unless they are buying bots at a loss.

I may start to think that every platform can be farmed. On Insta and facebook people buy followers from clickfarms. Here they buy votes from bots. It's just one big ball of shit ... is there any platform that is kinda sincere, I have my doubts. Where the masses crave for fame or money, few will make a business out of it.

Yeah. They should at least be honest and open about it and advertise it as such instead of claiming how different it is from other places. The only difference between here and the centralised platforms are the number of dicks once bent over :P

Maybe the idea of such a platform is utopic, as soon as the people come in greed and easy money take over. Human nature is a bit weird.

Any change for the better is idealistic as given the information of the moment, it is what it is. Though, that shouldn't stop us from trying and enacting change. The introduction of 'easy money' is a personal hurdle that many can't surmount. The drive of the ego to have more than the next person is endless until one reflects on the process and the implications. Our society as a whole no longer encourages self-reflection though, despite all the Facebook and Instagram -esque quotes on sunset photos.

It's just sad that the majority seems to be not interested in self-reflection. Steemit has already a quite high percentage of users that tink for themselves. It is way worse on other big platforms. Not to mention cryptorelated telegram chats...Lambo! Moon! 😱

I agree we should try to get better, even if it's like good old Don Quichote fighting the windmills.

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