"Do you pray for the dead?" ~ Ruminations on God's Sovereignty Over TimesteemCreated with Sketch.

in #life6 years ago

"Someone asked me, 'Do you pray for the dead?' I said, 'No, I preach to them! I think every pew in every church is death row. Think about that! They're dead! They sing about God; they talk about God, but they're dead! They have no living relationship (with God)."
- Leonard Ravenhill -


When I was noticeably younger,

I suffered from an attitude of disdain toward certain religious traditions. I espoused a neatly packaged systematic theology, largely fostered by having grown up in a predominantly Baptist tradition.

I discounted my Catholic friends who dared to pray for the dead. That seemed foolish to me. Is not the fate of the dead already sealed? Being dead, they no longer have opportunity for repentance, and thus are beyond hope.

Table of Contents

Are the dead beyond hope?
Image courtesy of Brentwood/United Kingdom and http://pixabay.com

But are the dead truly beyond hope?

From a very hard core, traditional Baptistic viewpoint, yes, they most certainly are. As the Scripture says:

"...it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment..."- Hebrews 9:27

However, we the living are not without hope.

Older and (possibly?) wiser now,

I have lately come to see things a little bit differently.

God is sovereign over time.

He is not limited by our human constraints. Did not Jesus say:

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”"- Revelation 22:13

Recognizing that God is not constrained by time,

these days when I recall some dearly departed friend, I have begun to pray for them after this fashion:

"Lord, I pray that you might have had mercy upon my friend Bob C., and that you may have rescued him from eternal death and granted him your gift of eternal life."

In other words, when I pray, I express my desire and intention to the LORD for his mercy and grace to—before their earthly death occurred—have already been administered to friends whose outcome may be in doubt.

I have come to believe that such prayers are as effective as the ones that I prayed for them while they were still living. Although I am confined to this slowly progressing timeline, Jesus/God is certainly not. He is quite capable of hearing my prayers in the present and acting on them in the past.

And so I continue to have hope for Bob C., Joel S., Larry H., Eric F., Uncle Martin, and other friends and loved ones who were kind blessings to me while they were still living.


Table of Contents

"Can these bones live?"
Image courtesy of [Mike Cook](https://pixabay.com/en/users/mikecook1-7596011/ and http://pixabay.com

Ignorance can be a blessing.

Even as the apostle Paul offers hope for unbelieving spouses in his first letter to the Corinthians, I believe that we can continue to live in hope for our departed loved ones.

We may not have seen the inception of faith in their life right up to the last moment, but ought to remember the thief on the cross. He found redemption in Jesus' grace at the very last moment of his life. How do we know whether God may have shed the light of his grace and salvation in the mind and heart of that loved one, even in their last moments on their death bed?


~FIN~



Table of Contents

Don't Abandon Hope... "How do you know?"
Image courtesy of Wokandapix and http://pixabay.com


P.S. If you have an "in" with anybody at Steemit, Inc. - Would you please ask them to get rid of these damn, extremely annoying "off-website" arrow/boxes? The have, overnight, made Steemit ugly. There are much better solutions.


For all things religious and philosophical,
please check out our Library Christianity Shelf - CLICK below:


Table of Contents


Table of Contents


LOOK! Check out our amazing product:
SILVERengines
Introducing: The SILVERengines proton - Image by @creatr
CONTACT US - Will Exchange for Steem


Thanks for your time and attention.
You are why I'm here on Steemit!
I have very eclectic interests and hope, over time, to write about them all.


⬇️To Check Out @creatr's World⬇️CLICK Each Image Below⬇️

@creatr @creatr @creatr
Sort:  

Lord, I pray that you might have had mercy upon my friend Bob C....

It is prayers like these that cause me to appreciate the friendship we have all the more. You are a deep and careful thinker my friend, and I love the tension with which you hold onto the seemingly paradoxical biblical truths. Well done.

Thanks, Lydon.

If / When ever you may feel that I have strayed from biblical truth, please always challenge me with any scripture that you may think is applicable...

My goal is always to align my thinking with biblical truth. :D

And the same for you to keep me accountable -I believe we owe each other that.

You do a fine job! :D

This is a skin-tingling way of thinking about it.

oh, why bother, it's too late, they're dead, their fate is sealed

Saying that is just putting a limit on God that matches what we humans think makes sense, specifically how life and death and time works. Of course we know nothing.

Allowing for the power that God possesses means that nobody's fate is truly sealed. It's a brain-bending way of looking at it, but only because our brains are so tiny and don't bend very well.

Indeed, the older I get, the more I recognize just how little I truly know, and the more (hopefully) humble I become in my approach to others' ideas.

"Allowing for the power that God possesses means that nobody's fate is truly sealed."

I think I might express this somewhat differently:

Allowing for the power that God possesses means that everyone's fate is truly sealed, but in the best possible way both for themselves and for all concerned...

And that in the meanwhile, I can continue to hope for what presently seems to me to be the best outcome for any particular individual...

Thanks for weighing in! :D

It's pretty easy to know more. Just read the Bible. The older I get the more I know.

God cannot lie. So yes, God limits himself.

I am no Baptist
but I don't pray for the dead either
for the same reason that you stated

they've walked their mile
I can no longer help extend that

someone who upped my post resteemed this
and am glad he did
edit : it's @jlufer :D

it's not often that someone braves to spit out such pepper-cussed matter
specially when it could lead to arguements

Hello, @englishtchrivy!

How nice to hear from you!

Yes, this post has brought some old names/faces out of the woodwork that I haven't heard from in a long time.

So, I've never heard the term "pepper-cussed," that is a new one for me. ;)
I'd appreciate it if you could explain the meaning of that saying? :D

I'm really not looking for arguments, but I'm not afraid of them either because my goal is to align my thinking with what the bible has to say about things.

Thanks again for your visit, and take care! :D

:) thank you

I believe that you're not looking for any arguments though :)
you're one of the most amicable users I bumped into here

as for pepper-cussed it's normally used to people who's always cursing
it's hard to listen nor pay attention and accept whatever any person who always opens his mouth and go cursing right
somehow, the biblical based phrase you wrote about not praying for the dead could have the same impact - it's hard to accept specially for people from the continent I came from cause some of us have that as traditions and worse - they even bend their knees to the dead and my country is no exception

if people would just read their bibles and not just have them for displays on their coffee table they may wake up to the fact that many of the religious practices were actually against Christ's teachings and the worst part many of the religions in my country ask for money to offer prayers for and to the dead - sighs and more sighs

oh well, it's their right, we'll have to respect that I just don't like the pretending to be preachers - actually extortionists who teach them wrong rituals and practices like this and make the people spend a lot of money that only goes to their own pockets spent in buying expensive toys for the boys and to fatten their greedy stomach! I pity those who fall victims to those crocodiles !

anyway, have a great summer
and keep living!
you, too TC!

Thank you for explaining "pepper-cussed," that's interesting.

I feel the same about any so-called church leaders who extort money or use guilt on parishioners in this matter... :( Very sad, actually despicable.

I also find it sad that people pray without some knowledge of the bible.

I always encourage people to read and think about the book that John the apostle wrote, known as "John's Gospel." I think it has the most clear presentation of Jesus and who he really is, and that if only people would read that book, they would be saved from a lot of misunderstandings and foolish practices.

Thanks again for writing, it's very nice to hear from you again.

😄😇😄

@creatr

you're really very kind to just use despicable - for I find those insulent and abominable
for how could they treat the teachings of Christ as if it's not enough
to make their very own to satisfy their hunger for mow-ney ~~~

have a great week ahead !
in case you reply and I won't be able to response
please don't feel ignored
that means am offline - steemnow says my VI will need at least 91 hours to recover and get back to 100%
in order for me to do that
I'll have to keep myself from looking at my account
or get tempted to post again :D

Thanks for sharing your most intimate thoughts. God in his infinite mercy is beyond our poor human reasoning. You have started a good topic for the debate. In my blog I have developed several post with the love that Jesus Christ shows us now and always. Receive an affectionate hug amigo @creatr

Thanks, Felix.

This is a very interesting read, especially as I also believe that there is hope after this world has proclaimed your death to be eternal. I was born and raised Catholic and slid over to the Baptist side for a short stint, then ran back home to my roots.

I would like to think that you are right in all of your wisdom. It brings great comfort to my soul. Thank you for your always enlightening thoughts.

I'm glad to think that I've been able to offer you some comfort.

Even when I believed as before, I've always counted on the LORD to be kind and compassionate and that--in the end, I would be on board with all his decisions.

Coming to my present understanding simply gives me some more hope and comfort in the present age.

Thanks so much for your encouraging feedback! :D

BTW, one of these... days? years?... I hope to write some on my present understanding of what "hell" actually is, and how God's authentic justice is real, and to be feared, but it is not expressed in the medieval notion of endless, conscious torment...

I look forward to it and thank you so much for the very kind and thoughtful response.

Hi @creatr - I love peeking into your mind with these posts. :)
I actually do not pray for the dead. I talk to their spirit or acknowledge a memory of the deceased. To me, this is an organic thing; like catching a random whiff of Old Spice and saying "Hi Dad, I miss you."
I'm pretty consistent with this idea of feeling and speaking with the spirit energy. For instance, I don't pray to God either; instead we have a conversation.

Mere!

What a nice surprise to hear from you!

And, looking now at your blog, I'm also glad to see that I haven't missed anything... me being a manual curator...

Hi there! Welcome back! Thanks for saying hello... :D

I'm so glad to be back but can't make any promises about consistency yet. Been pretty crazy around here. Gonna try at least one post a day 'til the end of the month to see if I can get back into the Steemit habit. XOXOX

Hey, just do what you feel like doing!

If it comes from the heart, I don't care if it's once a day or once a week! ;)

This is a wonderful write up on an interesting topic in Christianity (I guess most other religions kinda dodged the whole "eternal damnation" thing, lolz).

I have my own beliefs concerning the existence of Hell, what it is, blah blah blah, but I think it's still important to live like it's there just to be safe. But if God is sovereign, then eternity and damnation and Hell and forgiveness and sin are under His power, not the other around. Wouldn't damning ourselves give sin a power over God? Or doesn't the claim that God has the power to cleanse sin but let's Hell happen anyways kinda refute the hippie Jesus stuff?

I dunno. I love God, I'm glad you do too, and, like, I dunno. Christians need a new image, but I guess we also need some seriously Christ-like people if anyone's gonna take us seriously.

<3

Hi Caleb,

Thanks for dropping by and commenting. I agree that Christians have a tarnished image, but that is as much a problem for people who just assume that we are something that we're not.

The best remedy for that is conversation on a person to person level, I think. Get to know an individual Christian, and surprise, you may discover he/she doesn't fit the stereotypes! ;)

Take care!

Reading your reflection on the state of the dead, I agree that we are very limited to the scope of understanding that our Creator has in the final line of life and death. Although we are clear about the state of the dead, that we all know, that know nothing, feel nothing, waiting for the day of final judgment, our heart every time that the memory of them comes to our memory, does not comfort us in the Lord through of prayer. Therefore, it is very normal and it prints an act of nobility to your attitude of praying for them @creatr.

Thank you, Yoselina, for your thoughtful comments.

Yes, I agree that the dead who have not been redeemed by the LORD are in that state of complete silence, waiting for judgement. But I don't think we can know for sure who was and was not redeemed at the time of their death.

And so I pray that the LORD may have had mercy on my dead friends and loved ones before they died, and may have taken them into his presence.

Take care!

Hi there!

Thank you ever so much for keeping me informed! :D

- @creatr

You are welcome

It's too bad that you've discarded the truth to embrace error. You come from a Baptist background so you should have a proper understand of scripture. The passage in Hebrews says it all:

(Hebrews 9:27-28 NIV) Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, {28} so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

It's a waste of time to pray for the dead. Their fate is sealed. It's also a waste of time to pray for the salvation of lost people. Share the gospel with them if they're willing to listen. People have free will. There isn't a single person in hell because nobody prayed for them. Neither is there a single person in heaven because many people prayed for them. It would be a gross injustice for the prayers of other people to impact the salvation of anyone. Salvation is between a person and God. Period.

Hello, @barncat,

Thank you for stopping by to comment.

"It's also a waste of time to pray for the salvation of lost people."

Paul does not agree with you.

"Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved."
- Romans 10:1

"Neither is there a single person in heaven because many people prayed for them."

Our LORD disagrees with you.

"“Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”"
- Luke 22:31-32

"It would be a gross injustice for the prayers of other people to impact the salvation of anyone."

Seriously?

"But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. And have mercy on those who doubt; save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh."
- Jude 20-23

Coin Marketplace

STEEM 0.29
TRX 0.12
JST 0.033
BTC 62934.09
ETH 3118.65
USDT 1.00
SBD 3.85