My buddy @timcliff thinks investors are key! I think seeking steem investors puts the cart before the horse...
Hey Again, Steemitizens!
If you follow my fellow witness friend, @TimCliff, then you know he often posts about the importance of investors and large investments into the steem blockchain. He actively works to promote bringing investors and exchanges and their infrastructure into play for stronger investing options and methodologies.
And that's not a bad thing!
But I think it's premature right now, and off target for growth at the moment.
I'll explain what I mean and what I'd do differently with his influence and clout.
Tim and I have talked to each other a lot of times over the past year. In many ways, our fundamental love of the platform, our investment in time and energy and our involvement and engagement with new users is very very similar. We don't always agree, but we often aren't far from a compromise in our positions.
And this topic is similar.
I don't disagree that investors in a platform like this are important. Of course they are. I disagree with focusing on them as the potential saviors right now. In fact, I feel like we should all have an entirely different focus which I will outline in this post as we go.
But with regards to investors, let's talk about how that looks for them and for us, right now, just for a minute, just to see how it feels.
- Early investors have had a tumultuous two year ride.
- The active investors have often been bad actors, and the inactive ones aren't doing much for anybody. market cap looking good or not. Circulation is not happening and that's going to be a key point of my recommendations here.
- Investing means trying to get an ROI, which means that money needs to be doing something, working. So they can self-vote, manually curate for peanuts (which means "going to work every day"), delegate for peanuts, lease or rent to people or bid bots... none of this is making the platform much "better" by the way so far...
- Investing here is risky based in steemit inc delivery date fails and systemic stability issues seen so far such as recent outages caused by simple spam attack vectors.
And really, have "investors" to date done more harm or good here overall? And conversely, from their perspective, have they experienced more harm or good for their investments than they could have elsewhere. Define harm and good however you want, that's kind of the point.
Here's what investors have done for me and most others, since @abh12345 tells me my chart is pretty darn typical, like everyone else's... (Thanks for the chart dude!)
Here we see that the minnows and redfish are doing all the daily work on the platform in terms of engagement and that in turn drives retention, and OUR RETENTION FUCKING SUCKS! Ask @PaulaG who runs the numbers on that at about 20% of people who come here are still here a year later. Why? ALL the reasons, but if the money was useful, those conditions wouldn't matter as much, eh?
People put up with a lot of shit for money but the money... is the thing.
If you get some here, you still gotta go to fiat with it. For many the amount they make here never makes that cost or hassle worth it. Bye bye they say... Shameful of us really.
So okay cork, what SHOULD we focus on to make this place work?
Easy peasy...
Circulation and Utility
This is what we are friggin' REALLY good at!
- 3 second transaction times
- functional utility coin, two years old
- easily transacted with usernames, via multiple exchanges & wallet points of access, mobile and desktop
- 50 thousand daily global consumers using it already, and over a million alleged potential wallets (yeah, yeah, I know. but still a lot DO have humans who would use them...)
What do I mean by "circulation and utility?"
This phrase dawned on me as a "mantra" while at a meetup last weekend, and having an in depth one on one with prominent steemian, @instructor2121 which spilled over into discord chat when we got back home. We've met at a couple meetups, and this came up every time.
He and I share going back to the 90s in web dev and app dev and internet "stuff" and we were clicking hard on the whole steem utilization premise. That's when I knew I needed to make a post responding to @TimCliff's constant call for more investors now. I think that's premature, but if we do the right things, they WILL come anyway, organically and naturally, as they should for a healthy outcome for all.
So what I mean is...
I mean standing up ecommerce stores that take steem
I mean taking it in the local business you own and operate already - like the cafe owned by my friend @ProgressiveChef does.
Yes, DO keep making the sites like dsound, dlive, dtube, zappl, steepshots and on and on that provide compelling use cases to earn rewards, but make sure we also create sites and places to SPEND that money.
I mean making projects like @steemtipper by @followbtcnews and @crimsonclad, where you can tip people with steem on other social networks like twitter, pulling them in to our deviant steem world by extension!
I mean putting this thing out there into the world as the viable option it already is, and focusing on bigger goals like getting a fast food or retailer chain to accept it at the point of sale.
You want investors? THAT is how you get investors!
- Paypal built services THEN got huge.
- Bitcoin made an infrastructure, THEN got huge.
- Shark Tank wants prior sales results to give you big investor money, not vaporous steemy ideas that maybe someday...
I mean, how do you get investors on spec? You end up only getting HIGH risk investors, the hardest kind to convince to part with big money, unless they really believe so much in the thing, hard to do right now, or somehow have a dog in the race themselves, already.
or for the more sadistic, more of the power hungry, stake abusers we have now...
But if you have a solid, solvent, and widespread utilization and circulation going on, the investment decision becomes a lot easier to consider, almost a no brainer, and we get more conventional investors as a result, who aren't so... impactful on the users, rewards pool, or social vibe or whatever.
So, yeah, sorry Tim, but screw investors.
We need to concentrate on making more places and things to spend on, to even have something to invest IN!
Our witness team is doing this with our projects, giving steem real world purpose in book publishing, charity operations, and some upcoming new things we can't quite announce yet, but hey, come to SteemCreatives in Toronto, and find out when my witness team mate @Rhondak takes the stage as a speaker, with partner @Gmuxx in attendance as well!
Go make a way to take steem in your business. Maybe plan for an SMT in your business along the way? My jury is still out on those, IF we ever get them (see above about missed dates and trying to convince investors, lol)
Or go spend some steem!
All my love,
@SirCork
Member - @NobleWitness team with @RhondaK, @Gmuxx & @Anarcho-Andrei
[edits after the post]
PS:
I keep thinking of places that do take steem already now..
Like
@Privex, the hosting company owned by @Someguy123
or this post that I just found
https://steemit.com/comics/@steevc/comics-in-the-mail-paid-for-with-steem-cfdcb22a7e3daest
List any others below in the comments please!
As I said in my original post:
Without investors you can kiss your rewards goodbye. Unless there are people willing to buy STEEM, then the rewards that are given to bloggers do not have value. The less investment we have, the more the price drops, and then everyone complains about how they are not making any money anymore.
I am involved in this initiative too, and I agree it is good to focus on. (Just not at the exclusion of working on other things too.) Check out steemeconomy.com if you have not already.
Check out steemeconomy.com if you have not already.
I had not seen this. But yes this.
but here:
Without investors you can kiss your rewards goodbye. Unless there are people willing to buy STEEM, then the rewards that are given to bloggers do not have value.
is the crux of our disagreement.
The pool pools every day, investors aren't paying my rewards, hell they are taking most of them.
Prices in markets are not input driven, they are consumption (or output) driven.
People using steem will bring investors, however, investors holding piles of cash doing nothing, will not bring people.
Circulation, and utilization. Otherwise ten people holding fat sacks of french francs ain't doing much in a euro circulation world.
Agreed :)
also, unless you are against doing so for personal score keeping, would you mind self voting your reply to pin it topside? Id like our conversation to show up.
I added my piddly upvote to hopefully keep it here at the top. I love discourse like this that is debate on friendly terms. It's good to see.
It looks like the parent comment to this thread is already the top comment on this post. It doesn’t appear that an additional vote from me is necessary unless I misunderstood your request.
Bingo, there is no compelling reason to invest because no return :D
I look forward to the part of the 100 reasons that explains how they can do that for steem (make it show up) and get a return without spending it somewhere to some other investor, or using it in the current ways that kill and run off userbase .....
@sircork - do you deny the simple fact that inflow of money into a system increases the value of a coin? it's as simple as that concept.
Doesn't mean we shouldn't do all the things you have listed but we can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Appreciate your passion about the topic!!
Read it again friend, I denied nothing of the sort.
This is about focus, priority and process. Something I've made a living in for about 30 years.
Well, I am bad at reading so I would just go by your reply above :)
That is Just speculation.
Its like Trading USD for EUR when you think EUR Will be more valuabe in the Future.
When we talk about investing we are talking about something that gives return besides the value of the asset.
I don't think the disagreement is about whether or not we need investors, but about whether or not we need to be chasing them. I think what he is saying (and I tend to agree with this) is that if you focus on circulation and utility, even at the expense of focusing on investors, you will end up with an ecosystem to which investors will naturally flock.
And I’m saying do both.
I'm curious, what's your definition of an investor in this context?
Just simply buying Steem is not enough. That only briefly raises the price on Coin Market Cap. Do you call those people sitting on a pile of Steem, collecting inflation, self-voting circle-jerking the crap out of each other, investors?
Those are speculators and miners. They are only here hoping your hard work will somehow make their holdings more valuable by sitting on the sidelines.
An investor actually pours forth funds to projects and developments. Delegation is a form of support. Someone who just sits on a pile of coins is less useful than, say, someone who delegates to bid bots. At least they "promote" content creation, without going into their effectiveness.
Stuff like DTube, DLive, are great. They are working utilities that make Steem blockchain unique; even if they still have a long way to go in terms of refinement. Now, if stuff in Steem Economy, like @steembay could also take off with some support, we would have another great usage case for Steem.
Point being, I'm tired of the generic assumption that "investor" is anyone with sizable wallet when the only thing going for them is "bought some Steem".
Well, unless you have those people “just buying STEEM” then the amount of rewards that the community will have to earn will be significantly less.
No. That is not the definition of investor. It is the type of investor that you want, but it is not the definition of what an investor is.
Everybody wants more engaged stakeholders who take an active interest in the long term success of the project. If I had a choice, I would want all of our investors to be that type.
Unfortunately though the reality of the situation is that there are not enough people with millions of dollars lying around who want to put that money into a super risky investment and then have to do a whole bunch of work on top of that to get a ROI.
I don't care what the dictionary definition of investor is, Tim. I want to know what, who, or whatever is an investor to you in this context.
If there's nothing specific, then the upcoming campaign you are running just seems like a quick pump for morale. They'll cash out before anything gets anywhere; maybe even leaving this place worse off.
Before you say join the Discord, no. I would like to see your vision immortalized on the blockchain, @fulltimegeek style. What exactly are you trying to attract where STINC failed?
Someone who is interested in buying STEEM.
Many investors are interested in buying and holding a coin until it goes up in value. Going after that type is not necessarily bad.
As far as this campaign, I have already spelled out my objectives and methods. If you are not interested in participating, that is totally your choice.
Thanks cork for the great post.
As far as saying "screw investor"s ?? Sorry Cork. I am with Tim on this.
That is being short sighted.
Much like conventional stocks of conventional Corporations. Take Frito Lay for example. Of course you want to have people buying and having high demand for your potato chips to sell at their businesses and convenient stores ( just like we will want Steem to be in high demand by business owners who want to utilize bandwith for SMTs in their business) but in the end the Investors take priority over EVERYONE and EVERYTHING ( i.e people who actually just Buy Steem alone to Hold) .
And the appreciation of Equities is the very top priority. Even more IMPT. than bottom line profitability. Yes, you heard that right !! ( But usually they go hand in hand. High profits usually equate to high demand of stock ownership, but not always of course)
Investors are CRUCIAL !!
Always have been and always will be !! And that's just the way the world and biz works.
I am a Content Creator. That is my main gig. And I want to continue to do that on Steemit but like I said I am first and foremost an Investor in Steem and SP and want my investment to appreciate. And that is why I blog. That takes priority over everything !
I said what you quoted, but I opened with a disclaimer ;)
Distribution, distribution, distribution, and there's the big issue (and the elephant in the room that everyone keeps ignoring) which would keep any sane investor away from steem right there. I think something worthy of investigation would be places that USED to accept steem and do no longer, and no one seems to care. See Shapeshift (virtually instant conversions at market rate), see livingroom of satoshi (bank acc filled or bills paid with steem).
From memory they were removed due to a lack of interest and the infrastructure is not exactly reliable causing more work for the companies to support (running their own partial or full node to mitigate and actual time/effort responding to tixs.) pushing costs and margins so tight they ended up dropping it altogether.
You should mention anon.steem.network also, while you are talking about services run by someguy.
All valid points Sammo.
Hell, yes!!!! Yes, yes, yes, YES!!! Absolutely no disrespect intended for TimCliff, because he has definitely pulled his weight on the platform. But at the end of the day, our goals and his goals are the same. We ALL want investors to get behind this platform. The difference is in approach. @noblewitness has a four-way mutual mindset on the matter of circulation and utility. That's what makes us a very important up and coming witness team, worth casting a vote for. Our main priority is helping content creators make the Steem blockchain a venture that investors flock to.
Thank you so much for this post, Cork.
Circulation really matters. I see other coins like Litecoin pushing it on a daily basis.
Speaking of places to spend Steem on, I came across @steembay auction the other day. That is another case at utilization that no one talks about.
@IFC, ran by @apolymask, has a primitive market that runs on their Discord. Imagine if there is development talent putting that idea to work, but on a larger scale.
Yes, exactly - but building these things takes investment. You're personally investing in your projects, and I'm personally investing in mine, and we have a bunch of other people doing that too. We're outside funding, in a way, or at least I am - I don't expect my Steem projects to be self-sustainable until late 2020 at the earliest. I'm going to be pouring resources into them for a while.
But if we're reliant only on the bootstrapping method, those things will get done much more slowly. If we can find a way to get some passive funding to come in and invest in building those small businesses, we'll be much more effective.
I think Tim's focus is too broad, looking for people to "invest" in Steem when what we need is people investing on Steem, but attracting investment is something we should be thinking about.
Right on the point.
The Focus on seeking investors must be on steem projects, not on steem itself.
Yer in the ballpark. And not wrong.
I do think we have enough business owners and entrepreneurs here already doing business online though to create quite an initial catalog of online and offline businesses that could take steem essentially immediately.
I'm one of them, and if there's a proof-of-concept I'm willing to follow it. But there are three essential problems that keep me from making more of an effort to sell real-world goods for Steem. (Though I'm happy to if someone asks.)
If I can manage to get more of my existing customers onto Steem maybe this will make more sense. But I don't see Steem as an effective way of generating new customers for my existing businesses at all. Maybe different forms of retail businesses will feel otherwise. Somebody like @arseniclullaby who makes and posts and writes about comics and also sells comics might do better than someone with more diverse work like me. I know he already sold some through his blog here because I bought them.
I'll probably be starting a Steem account for my tiny publishing company pretty soon, because why not, but I'll be a little surprised if it leads anywhere.
I commend tim's initiative, but I think investors need to be impressed by a project before investing. With the current state of things, there's a lot of things lacking which tarnish the luster of our Steem. As you mentioned, the active investors have often been bad actors, and the inactive ones aren't doing much for anybody. Couldn't agree more. Although investors are one of the multiple factors for the success of any enterprise, what's central to success is fundamentals. Steem has many advantages over the other coins/platforms, however on the technical and functional side it's been dragging for 2 years. Until everything is fixed and stable, I don't think we should divert our focus on anything else, e.g. investors and SMT's. Nevertheless, it wouldn't hurt to try to bring more investors, but I'm afraid it will be a tough sell to convince them.
well said, i'm in lock step, my talented and involved witness friend!
Me, too.
We DEFINITELY want the investors. As TimCliff points out, we have nothing without them. But let's give them something exciting to invest in. I think that's our responsibility, not just one possible option.
Same. I've been saying from the start that, whatever Steemit, Inc.'s view of Steemit as a platform, it continues to be the flagship. Unless we have other prominent examples of just what can be accomplished, we're treading water at best.
I like this point of view. I completely agree. I would like to clarify the word investors. The so called investors in steem, as with many blockchain projects are actually speculators, they come to get rich as quickly as they can. Greed is always punished.
This quiet time, its the time when the long term believers (such as yourself I assume) work hard to build things of utility. Give people a reason to buy, hold and use steem. It is times like these when only the biggest advocates are still left here, talk, work together and come up with useful things, even when it seems all is lost on the platform. It is these discussions and people building value creation systems with working business models on Steem that will bring it through. Not only a combination of bloggers and speculators. I guess Steem still suffers from the stigma that it is a place for bloggers, when it is far from that. Steem really really suffers from that. This thing is a facility for rewarding people for carrying out voluntary actions on and off the blockchain. Its up to the most die hard Steemians to come up with sustainable ways to make these actions / services or goods valuable to others who will invest in Steem long term in order to gain access to the use of these actions.... Its coming, people are starting to see it. It just takes bloody hard work, a lot of time and grit to see these times as the opportunities they are... (that's my two cents, I hope you jive)
Talking of serious, long term investors bringing large pots of steem to hold on our blockchain. our business recommends a minimum of 200K usd in order to give enough of an up vote to get people doing voluntary actions. We have already bought one client in and have set up the facilities to properly manage their steem for initiatives they want to achieve. We are sharing our profits also to people who bring new business into our company. I really wish more people started thinking this way on Steem, the price rises would be tremendous if they did.
We are essentailly the worlds biggest startup with 50,000 employees. if we could get the majority of them thinking in this entrepreneurial way, then we could really be amazing! Steemians would be the most powerful (and benevolent) force in the blockchain industry.
oh yes
all of this
It does seem quite logical to expand Steem as a cryptocurrency it really needs more real world places to accept it as payment - you can convert it to another crypto and eventually maybe get some physical money through that - but the fees and hoops are often too off putting.
I know of @steemgigs but have not had chance to look into it yet, I believe it is basically Steemians offering to do various tasks in return for Steem. I'm interested to look into @steemtipper I have not heard of that and it sounds like an awesome idea.
#thealliance #witness
Those are indeed some valid point here.
And why are we so obsessed with big investors?
There is a fundamental difference here that i dont know If @timcliff realized: we are not talking about pouring money in a Company with the expectativa that the Company grow over time. We are talking about Trading money for money.
Calling big players to buy steem to Rise its price os only based on the prossibilty that one day that money (steem) Will be Worth more than what you paid for.
This is speculation, not investing.
When we talk about investing we need to think what we have to offer in return besides the market speculation.
Here is a suggestion for you big steemers (@timcliff included):
Try to pitch investors to put money on steem projects (@utopian-io, @steemhunt, etc etc), and not on steem itself.
This is what May bring Future returns besides the price speculation.
Omg, that is exactly what @iamstan and I have talked about. Instead of investing in projects that could increase the value of their investments, many are hoping that if they passively sit and wait on the Steem they hold will eventually worth more through the work of others.
Jokes on them because if they had stepped in, they could facilitate that obsessed ROI quicker.
I have had this in my head and Im not sure its conveyed the whole time, but thats exactly what I mean when I ask "What are you giving them to invest in?" and "We have to give them something to to invest in!"
You got it! Thanks for reading.
I get the feeling that Tim is going to reply and says he agrees with you and that everything you mention doing (all great ideas btw) are strategies to attract investors....!
Also I think to scale many of the various 'useability' initiatives you menrtion will require investment - take actifit as an example - I downloaded it, but compared to my android pedometer and map my run it's a bit shit - it needs an investor to pay people to make it better!
Very nice post btw - I agree we need to use (in the broadest sense of the word) the platform to make it grow - but investment can't hurt - people will use it more if there's more of a return!
Lots of chicken n egg stuff to think about, cheers!
I would go on but Im on my phone and damn keyz!
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You smelled the stuff I'm stepping in then :D And I suspect you may be right about Tim's reply if it comes :D
What you're talking about is the right shit to make steem grow. But I think the rewards structure needs changing to facilitate that! Tim'll reply. He always does!
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yeah, we actually are friends. I know he'll have something to say :D