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RE: My buddy @timcliff thinks investors are key! I think seeking steem investors puts the cart before the horse...
In fact, I feel like we should all have an entirely different focus which I will outline in this post as we go.
As I said in my original post:
So, yeah, sorry Tim, but screw investors.
Without investors you can kiss your rewards goodbye. Unless there are people willing to buy STEEM, then the rewards that are given to bloggers do not have value. The less investment we have, the more the price drops, and then everyone complains about how they are not making any money anymore.
I mean standing up ecommerce stores that take steem
I am involved in this initiative too, and I agree it is good to focus on. (Just not at the exclusion of working on other things too.) Check out steemeconomy.com if you have not already.
Check out steemeconomy.com if you have not already.
I had not seen this. But yes this.
but here:
Without investors you can kiss your rewards goodbye. Unless there are people willing to buy STEEM, then the rewards that are given to bloggers do not have value.
is the crux of our disagreement.
The pool pools every day, investors aren't paying my rewards, hell they are taking most of them.
Prices in markets are not input driven, they are consumption (or output) driven.
People using steem will bring investors, however, investors holding piles of cash doing nothing, will not bring people.
Circulation, and utilization. Otherwise ten people holding fat sacks of french francs ain't doing much in a euro circulation world.
Agreed :)
also, unless you are against doing so for personal score keeping, would you mind self voting your reply to pin it topside? Id like our conversation to show up.
I added my piddly upvote to hopefully keep it here at the top. I love discourse like this that is debate on friendly terms. It's good to see.
It looks like the parent comment to this thread is already the top comment on this post. It doesn’t appear that an additional vote from me is necessary unless I misunderstood your request.
Bingo, there is no compelling reason to invest because no return :D
I look forward to the part of the 100 reasons that explains how they can do that for steem (make it show up) and get a return without spending it somewhere to some other investor, or using it in the current ways that kill and run off userbase .....
@sircork - do you deny the simple fact that inflow of money into a system increases the value of a coin? it's as simple as that concept.
Doesn't mean we shouldn't do all the things you have listed but we can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Appreciate your passion about the topic!!
Read it again friend, I denied nothing of the sort.
This is about focus, priority and process. Something I've made a living in for about 30 years.
Well, I am bad at reading so I would just go by your reply above :)
That is Just speculation.
Its like Trading USD for EUR when you think EUR Will be more valuabe in the Future.
When we talk about investing we are talking about something that gives return besides the value of the asset.
I don't think the disagreement is about whether or not we need investors, but about whether or not we need to be chasing them. I think what he is saying (and I tend to agree with this) is that if you focus on circulation and utility, even at the expense of focusing on investors, you will end up with an ecosystem to which investors will naturally flock.
And I’m saying do both.
I'm curious, what's your definition of an investor in this context?
Just simply buying Steem is not enough. That only briefly raises the price on Coin Market Cap. Do you call those people sitting on a pile of Steem, collecting inflation, self-voting circle-jerking the crap out of each other, investors?
Those are speculators and miners. They are only here hoping your hard work will somehow make their holdings more valuable by sitting on the sidelines.
An investor actually pours forth funds to projects and developments. Delegation is a form of support. Someone who just sits on a pile of coins is less useful than, say, someone who delegates to bid bots. At least they "promote" content creation, without going into their effectiveness.
Stuff like DTube, DLive, are great. They are working utilities that make Steem blockchain unique; even if they still have a long way to go in terms of refinement. Now, if stuff in Steem Economy, like @steembay could also take off with some support, we would have another great usage case for Steem.
Point being, I'm tired of the generic assumption that "investor" is anyone with sizable wallet when the only thing going for them is "bought some Steem".
Well, unless you have those people “just buying STEEM” then the amount of rewards that the community will have to earn will be significantly less.
No. That is not the definition of investor. It is the type of investor that you want, but it is not the definition of what an investor is.
Everybody wants more engaged stakeholders who take an active interest in the long term success of the project. If I had a choice, I would want all of our investors to be that type.
Unfortunately though the reality of the situation is that there are not enough people with millions of dollars lying around who want to put that money into a super risky investment and then have to do a whole bunch of work on top of that to get a ROI.
I don't care what the dictionary definition of investor is, Tim. I want to know what, who, or whatever is an investor to you in this context.
If there's nothing specific, then the upcoming campaign you are running just seems like a quick pump for morale. They'll cash out before anything gets anywhere; maybe even leaving this place worse off.
Before you say join the Discord, no. I would like to see your vision immortalized on the blockchain, @fulltimegeek style. What exactly are you trying to attract where STINC failed?
Someone who is interested in buying STEEM.
Many investors are interested in buying and holding a coin until it goes up in value. Going after that type is not necessarily bad.
As far as this campaign, I have already spelled out my objectives and methods. If you are not interested in participating, that is totally your choice.