Video: some thoughts on the DLive exit and the Hard Fork 20 resource credit system

in #dlive3 years ago (edited)

To summarize the video, if there's anything beneficial we can learn from the DLive situation is that tokenomics matter and companies want control. SMTs may be more important that some people realize. Also, Hard Fork 20 is coming on September 25th and code changes are still happening when we're only days away. Let's prepare ourselves for some potential rough times as we work through the new resource credit system described in the release notes.

Original DLive Exit Post (click show to read it): DLive is joining the Lino blockchain, moving away from Steem

Trending DLive posts right now.

Related posts I found interesting:

An Objective look at Dlive's exit
Dlive is Leaving: The Reason A Farce And STEEM Won't Miss It A Bit
How to remove DLive from your Authorized Apps
How do you like DLive now?
My thoughts on Dlive leaving Steem

What about Vimm.TV as a streaming option? Maybe. Check out @vimm

Luke Stokes is a father, husband, programmer, STEEM witness, DAC launcher, and voluntaryist who wants to help create a world we all want to live in. Learn about cryptocurrency at

I'm a Witness! Please vote for @lukestokes.mhth


Thanks, Luke. Appreciate your candour and insight as always.

You're welcome, Matt. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

The link to my post and mention is greatly appreciated. Thank you kindly @lukestokes.

You really helped to clarify the thinking on HF20. I agree...there will be some bumps so making major changes a couple days before is a risking proposition. Hopefully it does go as smooth as possible.

You're welcome. I'm hoping so also. The best thing we can do, I think, is prepare ourselves and set good expectations. We already have 12 witnesses signaling HF20, so it's most likely going to go through. My server is ready as well, I'll switch over to it before the date. I'm just wondering if there's anything else I can do in terms of due diligence at this point.

Will definitely be interesting to see how DLive fairs without the Steem community supporting them (mostly) after what they did. I would think that they almost have to start from scratch as most content creators will stay here most unless wildly incentivized not to. Agree with you on the process to transitioning over to HF 20. Hopefully it gets adequately tested before deploying to avoid another freeze like earlier this week. Look forward to knowing how your trip ended in Puerto Rico!

I've heard it said that the DLive community had many who were not even aware of Steem much. It will be interesting to see the net result. Ultimately, I think most users just want a service that benefits them. They don't care about much else. Hopefully more people start to care before they absolutely have to care.

There is one more important post on dlive's departure.

It's a spoof of the breakup and funny, but really clever.

Oh boy, rough patch is not something I want to hear.

As for a rough patch, it's a complicated system. You can see here how each operation will have a different byte size. It's something which will be very difficult to test with production-level accuracy unless we see it running in production. I'm hopeful, but cautious. I think we should set expectations accordingly.

I appreciate it very much! Thanks for the realistic update.

Great video thank you for all you do and for the information you provide. SMT will help reduce such issues we are facing with systems such as DLive that are just bleeding the system now. It sucks but honestly with business thats just the way it is. In order to stay ahead steem needs to advance itself which it should be doing here shortly. Advancements are key to being relevant and successful.

If we're not moving forward, we're dead in the water and forgotten tomorrow.

Good video bru. This is all new to everyone and not to expect any issues would be naive. All about "adapt or perish" and with people as dedicated as you. I know we will adapt and grow.

I would've seriously contributed to your take out menu costs when Steem was down. All 15 hours worth of pizza :)

I appreciate what you do for all of us and thank you.

Hah! Thanks. Yeah, that was a long day. I kept wanting to try a restart early on, but everyone who had ended up needing a replay. Eventually I did also.

Luke, do you think we'll see a temporary rise in the price of Steem followed by a sharp decline after Hard Fork 20?

Heh. No idea. Seems the whole cryptocurrency market goes up and down in ways that don't really make sense at all anyway.

Great informative video, thanks for all of your attention to these topics. Luke do you know of a link or a post that explains why it takes so long for people to get approved on steemit?

Nothing on a blockchain can be free. Creating accounts can't be free. Steemit, inc currently creates all those accounts. They have to be careful to go through a process that (hopefully) doesn't allow too much exploitation where individuals can just create a bunch of free accounts. They've continually worked to improve that system but ultimately they are moving to a completely new model where tokens will be needed to create accounts and those tokens can be mined. This will, hopefully, change quite a bit about the onboarding process. We will see though. We will see.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I agree, nothing can be free because people will abuse it. A game theory puzzle that I am sure that Dan Larimer tried to solve with Steemit. I appreciate the great explanation and it sounds to me like they are going in the right direction.
To me it never felt right to have gotten that initial amount of steems for free more or less.

Thank you for linking my post <3

Been with your project#dtube from the beginning. Sticking

It was a bit of an angry rant and you've collected a list of detractors as well, I'm sure, but I do think it had some important points worth discussing.

Now if we can just get DTube a solid as the centralized systems out there, that will be a real game changer. Keep up the hard work.

I believe they leave for a number of reasons. One key factor, being that they don't understand they can enable evergreen content with a simple front end modification and request to steemit to hide Vote activator comments on the posts from past 7 days. They don't understand IPFS, They don't understand what Peers are, or how to get users enthused to "seed content". Just like Witnesses "seed" the blockchain in the way it's accessible by many people around the world. We can work together to change this "7 day disposable content" culture and the DAPPS with the future editions and updates will find much more success , in my opinion.

Yeah, adjusting things for more evergreen content valuation from a UI perspective would certainly be an interesting approach, but some may also see it as a form of "double spend" if the same content gets opened up again and again for extracting from the rewards pool.

I understand the concern. I spoke with marky mark about this , this morning. But the problems with not having evergreen content out weights having it and that getting the "needed investors" inside of steem and not building on a crappy, non-decentralized currency like EOS. These investors want happy end users and better retention. Both can be acheived with earnings past 7 days. You may even have whales powerup just to upvote a favorite post everyone loves for years. I'm thinking 5 years from now. Not in the current "steemit" ecosystem that is so small.

a crappy, non-decentralized currency like EOS

This sounds like more crypto tribalism. You realize the EOS and STEEM are essentially the same in terms of how they are governed, right? The big problem with EOS right now is the lack of voter engagement.

What makes you think it's "non-decentralized"?

The problem with EOS is the constitution, as well as the way the structure exists they can freeze accounts, and have done so. This is why it's not "decentralized" or a true blockchain in the way bitcoin or Steem currently is. It's not crypto tribalism. I think many other coins can have a use case. But EOS seems to have completely forgotten the purpose of "Censor resistance" inside their blockchain. Also, the code is differnt luke. The have "Arbitrator".
Proof here of centralization via one signature.

Please , if you can explain how EOS is not centralized i'd like to hear your thoughts.


Flagged for not defending your argument EOS is decentralized. Have a nice day.

Or more accurately, "flagged because you didn't respond as quickly as I wanted you to."

Come on, man.

You do realize these accounts asked to be "censored", right? It's amazing to me how often this story gets twisted while the block producers who were actually involved in protecting peoples' property know the real story (and even submitted themselves to arbitration for acting quickly to protect the property because ECAF was moving too slowly). That property was provably demonstrated cryptographically as belonging to the accounts which asked to be added to the blacklist. You act as if some dude just randomly decided to censor some random accounts. Property was taken by thieves and the victims used the capacity of a governed blockchain to temporarily blacklist those accounts until something could be done in the future to retrieve their property (most likely with a fully-functioning arbitration system along with a referendum to put in an accepted constitution in place of the interim constitution).

A governed blockchain as concept isn't "centralized" even if in the beginning interim systems are used to get off the ground. If you think actual censorship of anyone other than a provable thief would be possible on a public blockchain, then you may not understand how this all works. The blacklist done on EOS could be done today on Steem just the same if witnesses decided to not process transactions from specific accounts. There is no "Arbitrator" code, just an agreement within the interim constitution to accept arbitration. That's okay not to like arbitration or ricardian contracts or any number of other things that make EOS unique, but please don't throw around the "It's centralized" argument when it's a DPOS system functioning very similar to BitShares and Steem.

Again, I'm a witness on Steem and a block producer on EOS via eosDAC. What you're saying doesn't match the actual software involved or how it was used to protect property. To make false claims about a blockchain you don't like without understanding is a sign of crypto tribalism.

Correct, I should have said, Flagged for avoiding my point and sticking to this EOS argument I couldn't care less about. I removed the flag. I just don't understand your deflection into EOS.

It wasn’t a deflection. You made what appeared to me to be an inaccurate statement so I asked for clarification. You doubled down and flagged me.

I vote for the "fizzle" on this one. They completely took advantage of the community here on the #STEEM blockchain.
There's no other way to put it. Especially after having that atrocious logo design contest.

If they did take advantage, and the market views it that way, it will be interesting to see how this impacts the future success (and network effect) of their blockchain projects.

You feel a little worry about the resource allocation, everything should be fine, keep the faith. :)

Faith is seen by some as pretending to know things we don't know. I'd prefer to have confidence based on meticulous testing on a stable codebase. We'll get what we get and make the most of it, I guess.

It is a different approach and a way to see things.

That shirt is awesome brotha!

It's for a company called Code Climate that a friend works at. Funny thing is, the top row of boxes are green, but because of the green screen tweaking, it doesn't come through like that.

Quick question @lukestokes.

With SMT's do you have any clue if we would be able to let's say create an SMT to be used for multiple applications?. For example a forum based website and website using a loyalty program?

I guess that depends on how you plan to use the SMT. It's just a token. You could, in theory, do whatever you want with it.

Ok cool man. Thanks for responding and I agree that SMT will solve some huge issues. I know alot of people are upset about the Dlive situation.

Once again a very informative and reasonable video. You are very calm and subjectively looking at the matter and I like that. Looking forward to hardfork 20 now!

Excellent video ,,its intersting i liked much

Great perspective @lukestokes :)

Thanks for sharing your insights, Luke... and doing so in a rational and calm manner. Indeed, we can get all fired up, or we can look at these events as teaching experiences.

Since I am not so much a developer/blockchainiac, and more of a business/marketing person... I watch all these events with a lot of interest. The idea of decentralization is fascinating; my first impression some years back was the challenge of "fragmentation;" as a more informed observer today, I still point to the issue of fragmentation.

I'm sure the DLive crew had some fine ideas of their own and that's not what I question. Instead, I am looking way down the road as a user and thinking to myself "I don't want to have to keep 43 blogs because the market is so fragmented that no one single venue can be heard over any one other."

Whereas I don't like Facebook (for philosophical reasons) I DO like Facebook because all my stuff is in one place. I don't have to "reinvent the wheel" in order to use social media.

And so — to come back to DLive — is this move of their designed to serve DLive, or DLive USERS? And how many Steemit based DLive users are planning to migrate with them... thereby "dividing" their content, rather than consolidating it?

Just some random thoughts rattling around in my head.

Great informative video Luke. I won't take up much of your time with a super long comment. But when I first reached out to you I think I said something like thank goodness we have smart computer guys like you taking care of the inner workings of the platform! As I now have just learned that I could turn my cell phone into a wifi hot spot, and I now know what "data" is! lol Amazing!

Thanks for doing all you do here in Steemit land, and it's a official, I'll get to thank you in person for all your help and support in Krakow! Have a great day from Lviv Ukraine- Dan

Thanks. Looking forward to seeing you, Dan. :)

Hi, Lukes! Glad to be here and found the info I look for related to DLive exit from Steem. :) Thanks again for share. I will visit all the links you inserted in the post.

Cheers from Indonesia.

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