The not a Book Club

in #writing6 years ago (edited)

Of the last however long I have written several articles about engaging well in comments. The most important words on this platform are written below the post, not the post itself. The reason for this is because it is below that final line break that it becomes social. Up until the point someone provides a comment, the author is just shouting into the void.

I have been critical of the many highly rewarded users who seem to refuse to engage with their audience in either a timely manner or at all. As @clio mentioned today about my own replies:

What is also important is that you always answer the people who write a substantive comment. And not simply something like 'thank you', but a real answer. - @clio

Yes, I always try and often fail but, I do attempt to get to comments. I spend 8-10 hours a day writing articles and on top of that, the replies. Yesterday it was 30-40 comments. Lately it has taken a little longer to get to them because of some family pressures.

Today I read an article by @fullcoverbetting on Making Steem Great and he mentions two types of Steemian.

The first type are the real content creators. They write excellent post and make us think about topics. These are the fuel of Steemit! Why do you ask?
Well they are giving the second type of Steemians a platform to interact. People can react on the post and even react on other comments on the post. But the creators do also need this interaction. This interaction is what makes a post genuine and is the most appreciation an article can get! -@fullcoverbetting

He is right. For this place to have decent interaction, there needs to be decent content to interact with and to have decent content in the long-term, it requires decent interaction. Have a read of the comment section of the linked post, and then go to the trending section for memes and run through the comments. See the difference?

The level of thought and engagement on posts of substance and posts of fun are quite obvious. 'hahah' is really not a useful comment is it? The payouts differ quite a lot though right? This is one of the issues here that will hopefully be sorted out.

As I said to @clio, the comments section is where relationships are built, it is the place where the actual socialization happens. I said to @fullcoverbetting that the author shouldn't need to be there for the conversation to take place however, the author should be there at least for parts of it. People should learn to respect their audience a little and take the time to respond with more than 'Thanks!' the author equivalent of 'Nice post!

This is not a book club where people sit around and discuss the chapters and meanings of some random book chosen. This is social media, a forum where the audience can interact directly with the authors. A place where authors can defend or expand upon their words. An arena for discourse on all kinds of topics and a place to discuss many perspectives.

I see many high earners with 50, 100, 200 dollars on their posts, only 10-15 comments, and none of them are theirs. Why would anyone keep commenting? Why would anyone keep reading and upvoting if the author obviously has so much disdain for the audience that they won't even talk to the people who support them? Their content is rarely good enough to stand alone without interaction.

As said, it is under the post that relationships are built and under the post where connections are made. It is in that space where people will find whether the author gives a damn about the community or is just in it for the upvotes. Pay attention because the community builders actually spend some time building community, and a great deal of that is done underneath the post.

Just like @fullcoverbetting said that a genuine comment cannot come without reading the post, a genuine reply can't be made without reading the comment. It is the act of listening to each other that is important here, giving each other the space to speak and then trading words. There is massive value in that level of relationship and the bonds created are much stronger than that of reward for action.

Support those in it for the upvotes alone and when the upvotes slow, they scream and shout and breakdown and leave because there is nothing keeping them here. Again, good riddance. I hope many of the highly rewarded non-engagers do just that. It will free up a little more of the pool for those who actually want to be a part of a community. There are so many authors of quality here being largely ignored, they won't be missed.

I feel that the tides are slowly turning and people are starting to again realise that the point of Steemit is to not only create quality content but create content worthy of quality engagement.

Perhaps that is where we can actually differentiate ourselves as the content itself at this point is mostly no different than can be found from a thousand other sites. If the only differentiation is that there is a chance for money, all the other platforms need to do is follow suit.

The real draw card is building a community that interacts, blends, mixes and ties itself to millions of different points through the network of posts, comments, replies and the relationships they build.

It is also through that same network that broader distribution of Steem happens with less very high peaks and much more foundation. It creates a solid and wide base that many can benefit from. Something to think about at least.

Taraz
[ a Steemit original ]

Funny thing. I am writing this and now I have to walk the dog, get my daughter and I won't be back for a few hours to comment. Talk amongst yourselves ;)

Sort:  

Well, it is sad that when money is involve in anything people forgot the main purpose of it. What's a social media or a community platform without interaction. I am someone who makes lots of comments - far more comments than my post because I really do enjoy reading others post. As a curator for the wafrica community I read at least 100 post a day and try to interact with others as much as I can but one thing that turn me off about an author is when I don't get replies to my comments - it's like my words have no value to you.

One section I check first when ever I logged into Steemit is my reply section to see who have dropped a response to me. It's sad that a lot of the high earners don't even care about the community interaction. To me they are just like a nagging partner in a relationship who never listened to the words of the other.

But I appreciate the efforts of others like you and a few more who keeps the wheel of conversation going, not just a 'nice post/thank you' kind of conversation, they are the people who makes this community fun and interactive and that's what a social media is supposed to be.

  • it's like my words have no value to you.

Indeed. It is somewhat of a slap in the face. Again, it can happen from time to time but when it is consistently done, it is intentional laziness. The other thing that is poor behaviour is people who only answer to the big names and reps. They are defintely people to watch out for.

perhaps it is one of those saying about a country. It is not how they treat the wealthiest, it is how they treat the poorest that tells the most.

The other thing that is poor behaviour is people who only answer to the big names and reps

Rudyard Kipling answered that in his poem if -

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,

It is what brings about a balance.

Totally agree. Sometimes I check my written comments and get a bit disappointed if the author don't answer anything or react anyhow.

it takes time and effort but it is part of the deal with building the community. Those that don't answer at least usually, leave.

I really wish that my vote has more worth than the 2 miserable cents I can give you.
We are on the same page, but this is just a great article. It is so much better written than I even could do!
I was wrong with my statement it the greatest appreciation an article can get. An article written partly based on one of my articles is the ultimo appreciation. Never thought that this could happen, cause I consider myself a lousy author! Thx for making my day!
I will try to keep the interaction going while you are doing some offline duties!

An article written partly based on one of my articles is the ultimo appreciation.

it certainly is @fullcoverbetting. Well done! 😍

It was a good article and lots of good points in it. I hope it gets a little more exposure.

I started ending each post with:

Let me know your thoughts. My posts aren't a static piece of information, but rather the starting point of what I hope turns into a conversation.

Not sure if it helps, but on a ratio I think my posts get a high amount of real comments which then allows conversations to occur. Know a lot about many of my followers and many are people who now I'd like to meet in person one day.

Recently someone called me out in a comment and it has led to my increased blogging. Other comments shaped the direction I went with my current contest, not just comments for ideas but then comments on other posts seeing a theme people seemed to appreciate.

Then lets not forget how conversations on other people's blogs can start to shape our behaviors and opinions here too. Think of all people you opened my eyes to the bid bot issue and while my post rewards have dropped drastically I'm not paying for votes. This change has been for a couple weeks now and even running a contest I didn't pay to get upvotes in an attempt to gain more eyes. Instead it's growing organically with a bunch of resteems!

Thank you for your repeated level headed conversations we had about that issue and your patience to allow me to voice an opposing position and talk about it.

Honestly some comments take more time then many of the posts on the I spent $300 to look like a big shot "trending" page. They also tend to have way more value in terms of content and passion from the author.

There are so many authors of quality here being largely ignored,

This is the focus of my contest and hoping it's one that will shed some light on quality content that aren't getting the attention they deserve as they don't have an audience yet. It isn't that I feel those who have been around for a long time don't deserve rewards, they built an audience. But it's more that I feel we need to help the newest members start to build their audience and reward good behaviors.

Steemit is a gold mine, the comments section is where you find a lot of the gold. I have not read about your contest before but will take a look at your blog to see about it now. I really appreciate those people who appreciates good content on the platform. And am glad you are doing something in your own strength to that effect.

Would love to have you join in. Have read your comments many times and know that you want whats best for steemit.

It is also full of brilliant article ideas if you listen and pay attention. It is where you can see trends form.

But it's more that I feel we need to help the newest members start to build their audience and reward good behaviors.

I agree. I think that part of the onboarding (currently zero) experience should focus on helping new users understand the platform and curb expectations. If they have a better understanding of what is required from the putset, that might go a long way to helping them get started.

I am hoping that an organic approach will outperform the bidbots in the long run as the audience is engaged and actually interested in the content, not because it is is rewarded. In time, those users who value content will likely be the ones who hold value themselves.

Tweaking results organically is something that leads to many challenges. Look at the iterations that Google has had to have over the years to fight spammers. It's not easy to achieve great results when there is always someone looking to figure out how to game the system. I think anything would be better then the current system and the entire trending page is BS, but I don't have a real solution to put forward.

The onboarding process is a joke. It's here is your account and go to it. There could be so much more done to help new members as they start their steemit journey.

There could be so much more done to help new members as they start their steemit journey.

A couple of interface tweaks and it will limit spam and plagiarism + warn of phishing also

Guess longer you are here the more you realize needs to be done...lol. But at the same time the more you just get used to and work around. I find it crazy that we need to go to steemworld vs having all the info right there to view.

think of it in a different way. The blockchain doesn't care what interface you use so there are going to be many access points. For example steemword could get integrated into busy.org. Steemit.com could disappear and their could still be a 100 other interfaces interacting in different ways
perhaps one for just longform bloggers or another which is a news service. Who knows.

I get that, but they all end up feeding back to steemit. This should be the main hub and the one that gets flushed out with all the bells and whistles IMO.

It could be at some point a UX team takes over the platform too and does just that.

Great thing you are doing with your contests!

But it's more that I feel we need to help the newest members start to build their audience and reward good behaviors.

This is true but it is a 2 side cutting knife. How do we know about decent authors who are genuine. So many posts each day. While we maybe have a responsibility to find them, they also need to feel the urge to be discovered. By placing genuine comments on topic which they do find interesting. Not a spam comment, or a hit-and-go comment hoping to score an upvote.
There are some lunatics here (like myself) who do try to read all comments on a post, where they comment on. This is the easiest way to discover genuine people and maybe good authors!

I have found the few real followers I have gained has come from my engagement with them on their posts. I believe at this point it is the only way a new person will grow here. None of the feeds offer the visibility engaging with others already here does. It makes sense. If you read someone whose ideas are compelling, you are likely to share similar interests. Not only with them, but others who also comment.

I think this is the goal. It is like dating in a way. Some people are interested in looks, some money, some in the person etc. If you are looking for a healthy relationship into the future, compatibility based on'I like money, you have money' rarely ends well.

Dating used to be a way to see if you wanted a more intimate relationship . Nowadays people skip the dating and go straight to the intimacy . Then wonder why there is no meaningful relationships in their lives

they just haven't found the right partner.. out of the 200 they have slept with in the last 2 years...but, I am sure that Mr/Mrs right are just around the corner.

once the right partner is found the world changes for the better

I agree that new members need to take the time to engage the community to attract an audience. But at the same time if we all share the good ones we have found and maybe take the time once a week to find a new member that we had never followed before to also share with our audience I think that we can really change the face of steemit. This is truly the concept of what I created with the contest. Feature 3 smaller members in a curation post and at least 1 needs to be someone you don't currently follow. I wanted people to go out and search for 1 new blogger that they thought created good work. That person may be found from a comment on one of your posts, or another post, or just by hitting the new section in your favorite tag.

I might be crazy for thinking this way, but it really doesn't seem like to much to ask from all of us to do. If we all did 1 curation post a week to highlight the work of 3 steemians that we think deserve a little more attention we might keep some of the best and brightest around here long enough for them to start seeing the fruits of their labors.

I could write a long reply to this but we are on the same page. Take a look at my last post which proves it. Take a look at my wallet and than you can see how much I do appreciate genuine comments.
I only have a small amount of Steem available but are trying to share this with other.
Mmh still a long reply.
If you are not willing to take a look no prob, I am not tying to lure you, but I promise you will like it!

Think of all people you opened my eyes to the bid bot issue

The same here. I have only been here a couple of months now, and when I first encountered his posts on the bid bots I made several comments asserting why as a new person I needed those votes. His comments and unwavering conviction kept me coming back, as well as helping me to remain open to others who were also talking of how they hurt the site.

I like to believe I am smart, yet will admit it took a lot of reading his posts (which he does a lot) on this issue to understand how I was hurting my own growth here while enriching the bid bot owners. I realized something wasn't right when I had like 10 votes (one my own), 2 real comments and only 4 views. It doesn't even help with visibility for most of us. It does nothing to promote engagement for most who use these bots.

I am glad he writes consistently on this issue. In my hardheadedness I would probably still be throwing money (usually at a loss) to these bots somehow thinking todays results would be different than yesterdays and last weeks. Maybe even tricking myself into thinking if I just spent a little more money, then it would work, lol.

I was pretty good about timing the votes and could make a profit on most as long as they weren't cheating and setting a guaranteed loss into the bot. Yes some have this and even though it looks like you will have a profit from the bottracker site they just don't vote with a full vote. They will then have their next bidding round end sooner as they don't need a full 2 hours to recover. Took me a minute to understand that scam.

Either way I am now more focused on my content and engagement vs watching the bottracker to try and time profitable bids. I can always make more money later, but my time is limited.

Also can't see any increased viability to using the bots. All my followers who engage come from commenting on posts or from others resteeming my posts.

I got acquainted with many people and even started talking to them over phone just because of comments that I made in the blogs of people who shared perspectives similar to me! But I admit, most of the time my comments were trivial and didnt yield any response though. I don't like replies like 'Thank You' and 'Glad to know that you found my post interesting'. Rather It is better not to reply!

engage well with every comment that attempts to engage with you and your content and in time you will have a base of good comments flowing in.

No problem, do your thing. In all honesty, it was your interaction that kept me coming back to your posts.

i have walked away from blogs I enjoyed because I found a long length of comments and not a single reply from the author. Now I just read the post and walk on by.


Sometimes I wonder if there is a different tutorial on how to make it on steemit that some folks are reading. They are doing things that go against the ideals of the platform and they are doing just fine. It makes one wonder.

Have you ever heard of a phrase 'life isn't fair'. Yea, that's about it. People use different formula to scale through, some of them might be unethical but it works for them so they cling to it. For me, the interaction is where I find the golds.

Now I just read the post and walk on by.

It is a shame that so few authors seem to realise what they are doing by marginalising their audience.

@tarazkp wow great responses on this post! People are reacting on each otther on the content and creating friendships!
That’s what it all is about! We are a golden team if we can achieve this! 👊
I did resteem your post, trying to give it much more attention!
Lets keep this going, easy choise for my friends post next Thursday! Well deserved!
We should a way to keep this momentum going!

Yes, it has taken me a long time to reply :D

I think this proves the point about how valuable the comment section is and why people should engage more. I hope that you were able to get a few follows and support from this.

Not as much as your post but I don't mind! I did not write to post for the money of the followers! I did write it cause I did feel that it was important. How the word gets spread in of lesser importance! Your deserve this response, because it was really a great piece of art! That's why I did resteem it and to be honest: you written this post partly of my posts is the biggest sign of appreciation I can imagine!
I did try to do some commenting for you while you were out. Sorry couldn't stop myself!

It is good, I wish people would spend more time commenting on other's posts. I write 3-5 posts a day so can get 100 or more comments sometimes I try to work through. It takes time to get the engagment here and I feel that I am only just beginning but have been at it solidly for the last 10 months or more been here 14. I am a 'practice what you preach' kind of person mostly.

At the end of the day, the only one you should be able to look in the eyes, is yourself. We only can do our best, sometimes it is enough and sometimes it isn't!
Just keep on going! You are doing great!

I've been thinking on this since I first came to the site a couple months ago.

You've said it all very well, and I think you've covered close to every point that could be made. I feel the exact same way and it's the reason blogs like your own have become my favorite, and the reason I seek out your posts to read over the sea of others.

My favorite part of many posts is the comments section. The post seems to be merely a prompt to begin conversation there. Those are the kind of posts I seek out. And I've seen more than a few times where conversation has sparked further writing by the author and new connections between users.

It takes all kinds and there definitely are all kinds here. I feel like it'll all balance itself out in time. And users like ourselves will just ignore that other side of things that doesn't interest or benefit us. It's fine that it exists, but it's just not relevant to what we've come here for. I kind of have that live and let live perspective on things.

I also, at least so far, have tended to comment more than I've posted. But my reason for that is that I've seen a lot of content generated seemingly simply to do so to the point that it comes off redundant and uninspired, unoriginal...and I want to avoid being another one of those type contributors. As a newer user, it's seemed to benefit me more, and be more enjoyable, to simply engage with others and the meaningful posts they've already written. Doing so has given me plenty of ideas of my own that I might expound upon, eventually. Regardless, I value the genuine interaction the most.

I think for every writer who feels the way you do there's likely a commenter who feels the same and will engage with you. We all just need to take on the unspoken purpose of recognizing each other and then work together to creative a supportive environment, in spite anything else.

The post seems to be merely a prompt to begin conversation there.

I think this is what makes content valuable. If it doesn't create decent discussion/thought, it is not worth reading.

Doing so has given me plenty of ideas of my own that I might expound upon, eventually. Regardless, I value the genuine interaction the most.

I think this is valuable too as it builds upon the thoughts of others and develops the conversation further. Too many here tell people 'facts' yet expand nothing personally. Much of the science based content is that way. I find it useless. I can already read textbooks and studies from a million other places, I want to hear new thoughts.

We all just need to take on the unspoken purpose of recognizing each other and then work together to creative a supportive environment, in spite anything else.

Responsibility of action of the individual is what creates strong communities.

Yeah, you've highlighted good points. Especially the last one.

requires decent interaction

Yes. The whales who used to flag me for not providing content they thought would help bring new users in (morality, truth, philosophy, etc.) or because I had not enough views, were upvoting posts with no real engagement for sports bet picking crap,comments that someone only had to pick a team... great engagement there... lol

I even rewarded ppl with sbd from post rewards for a period to try to reward interaction on my posts, as my 100% upvote was worth 7 or 15 cents or so back then.

I also go through modes or moods or time periods of posting/commenting. I do other things when people are commenting on a post, and don't check my posts. I comment in batches after people have already commented. Probably not the best for keeping them interested, but I'm doing other things... so yeah :/

I'm trying to understand why you got so much heat back in the day... I went back and read some of your old posts, can't find a thing that would make me thing...

"dude gotta go..."

I was talking about things they didn't enjoy (morality, psychology), they wanted sports, comedy or who knows what else BS. They wanted to control the platform, and not let people get rewarded too much if they didn't like them or the content topics. I was the #1 rewarded poster for 1 month, and they didn't like my success. I even did a data post on myself to be open and honest about my success, which probably hurt as people had warned me not to do it... truth can backfire when people get jealous I guess... :/

https://steemit.com/steemit/@krnel/steemit-data-on-krnel

The flagging increased after that, and I lost support after calling the whales out as bullies, as people don't want to vote for a post where they wont get curation rewards from since it gets flagged down hehe. Plus they don't want to be seen supporting someone who goes against powerful whales because then that's guilt by association, they don't want to risk losing upvotes or being flagged too...

Stem has a concentration of power issue, and the rich plutocrats run it as they want with no consequences to their behavior because they have all the SP = money = power to rule and do what they want.

I have no idea how people think paying for what is already available freely from a thousand other places is going to make this place work. I understand why the content producers will come as they can get paid for doing what they do but the investors? It makes no sense to me. The value is almost completely in the community no matter how fast the blockchain is as in time, there will always be a faster one. The real business is tying people to the blockchain as it is the engaged community who will always keep the transactions flowing.

I hope that the steemit interface can keep up with this concept, since very often the very ones seeking to be part of communities have trouble finding what they're looking for. After all the very point of social media is often that it's as effortless as possible, which I think needs to be addressed quickly so that those seeking a community with less time on their hands than, say, a talking duck. 😉
Let's hope that those with your ideals intend to populate the platform as fast as those without leave it.

I'm aware that you might not see this with the suitably apt flood of comments, but I'll ask you in case you do.
Do you mind if I do a poem based on this and mention (and link to) this post?

A fine read, as always 😊

You can of course. Blockchain freedom! ;)

I think in time, there will be much more variety of interface design coming. Think of the difference between steemit and busy. Withe the community functions it gives a lot of power to developers to innovate even if Steemit.com doesn't.

Coin Marketplace

STEEM 0.20
TRX 0.14
JST 0.030
BTC 64202.90
ETH 3439.10
USDT 1.00
SBD 2.59