Thought Bubble Thursdays #3 - The One Where We Talk About Legacy

in #writing7 years ago

When we leave this mortal plane, our legacy is the only thing that we're really going to leave behind. You could be fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to leave a legacy that could span centuries, but you could also be remembered for only a few more years before you're lost to history. For many people though, their legacies live on for as long as the people they have touched or influenced continue to talk or think about them.

At this junction in your life, are you… Oh, who am I kidding? I know you're not going to be fooled two posts in a row haha! So, let's get on with it shall we? Let's talk…


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From Superman to Spider-Man, many comic book characters have had a lasting legacy that spans different generations. Some characters have already outlived their creators, and with the way things are going, there would surely be more that stands the test of time. There isn't one formula to follow to make a character popular for years and years though. Sometimes, it depends on the current socio-political climate.

I mean, who would've thought that a guy wearing a red and blue "spider" suit would still be immensely popular today? His creators, Stan Lee and Steve Ditko, might've certainly thought so, but I don't think millions of others would agree at the time. Sure, millions of people agree now, but hindsight is 20/20. What is it about Spider-Man that made him famous? Is it the suit? Maybe the quips? Well, I do agree that those things and so much more contributed to his enduring popularity. Although, what really made him famous was the man behind the suit.


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No, not puny Parker as a character! In reality, it's the way Peter Parker is so relatable for many people. Down-on-his luck, too smart for his own good, always getting picked on, has tremendous strength but has restraint to use them for selfish needs—these are qualities that most people have, think they have or they want to have. Peter Parker was the essential everyman, and that's what made him effective as a character.

However, Peter Parker isn't the only one to don the mask. In fact, there's a whole multiverse of them!


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Different backgrounds, different ethnicities, with many being completely different people. Even though Peter Parker is the same character that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko created all those years ago, only aging a few years thanks to Marvel Time, there have been many who have taken up the mantle of Spider-Man. The same thing goes for other characters. After all, a few decades is a long time to keep things fresh for a single character, even if the comics only come out weekly or monthly.

The thing about legacy is that it could be interpreted in many different ways.

Not Everyone Is White


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It might come as a shock to you, but not everyone is caucasian. I'll give you time to let that sink in. I'm a Filipino, living in the Philippines. While many consider me on the lighter side, I most definitely identify as someone with brown skin. Growing up, there aren't many brown skinned characters I could look up to. For me, it didn't really hinder the experience, but I could see how it became less relatable for people with a different skin color than the characters.

It's not just the physical aspect, the character's attitude and how they perceive the world around them come into play as well. Because let's face it, not everyone has the same level of priviledge. There are some things that come easier for some more than others. It's the way of the world, and no matter how much we try to change it, it is what (currently) is.

If you've been paying attention, that's why I wrote "was" referring to Peter Parker being the essential everyman. The truth is, it's too much weight for a single character to carry. With the current socio-political climate, no single character can carry all those expectations, and that's alright.

The recent wave of strong opinion, thanks in large part to social media, has made it easy for people to voice their concerns. Calls for political correctness, gender equality and representation has never been easier to spread. In this age of interconnectedness, nobody needs to suffer in silence anymore. Of course the downside of that is that it's also easier to bitch about the most trivial things, but that's a whole other can of worms.

With everything, the pressure is now on the Hollywood big wigs who have coasted far too long with stereotyping races. So, in turn, being the good guys that they are, what is there left for them to but to…

Swap The Characters' Race and/or Gender


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Oh God, no. Jesus Hussein Christ, no. That's completely missing the point. In fact, that completely missed the paper or wherever the point is located. It's like they took a circle, painted it to make it look like a triangle, dressed it up like a square and called it a rectangle. I mean, good grief! Houston, we not only have a problem, we have a crisis! Now before you dismiss me as a racist, hear me out. If after you read this post and you still feel like you want to lynch, then by all means do so.

This has been discussed before in several different sources, so I won't even try to list down all of the changes. Actually, I even wrote a similar post back in 2014 in anticipation of the TV series The Flash, which I considered reposting here, but a lot of the things I discussed were outdated. I even discussed it a bit during my first official TBT here. The point is, this has been discussed a lot, so what am I going to add to the conversation? That's the question. Well, that is a question.

As you've already seen, Hollywood has a habit of trying to appease people who are complaining about the lack of representation by swapping out characters who have existed in the comics for decades to a different race. What they fail to account is that they're not only swapping out skins like a color palette, they're swapping out personalities and everything else that make the characters tick. They're not swapping out race, they're swapping out characters.

Sure, arguments could be made about how it's only physical and how it would go a long way into making people belonging to different races included. Fine, the intention is noble (to some extent) but the execution is horrible. Do they seriously think that putting a black guy or an Asian woman in just so the cast would be diverse is the solution to all this? That feels like a band-aid.

If they really want to effectively depict the comics, then they have to look at the comic books as an example.

DC Had It Right


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That's right, folks. I told you I wasn't biased. For years, DC Comics had one thing going for it that Marvel has only been trying to capture recently—legacy. No, I'm not saying that Marvel hasn't left a legacy, I'm specifically talking about the superheroes. Look at the Bat Family with all of their rotating Robins. Sure, most of them were still white teenage boys, but there have been girls who have held the title as well. As I discussed before, the Flash mantle has been passed down from one generation to the next, the Atom had an Asian successor, Blue Beetle had a Mexican-American kid step up to fill its shoes, the Green Lantern Corps has many ethnicities and tons of other superhero legacies.

They really took the concept of "continuity" literally and ran away with for a few decades now. And, they've done a pretty good job with it, too. Well, that is before their whole continuity got so convoluted. But, in terms of representation, they were quite forward thinking.

Marvel started doing the same thing recently. I mean, they have done it in the past, don't get me wrong, but not as widespread as DC had done. Now, they even dedicated an entire event for it.


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You might be wondering, two Iron Mans? The sleeker one is actually a teenaged African-American wunderkind. Two Hulks? The one with the gelled hair is actually a super genius teen of Korean descent. There's an African-Amerian Captain America, a Pakistani-American Miss Marvel, a woman Thor (which still doesn't really make sense), a GirlVerine (which I can make fun of because she's one of my favorite Marvel characters), and a half-Puerto Rican half African-American Spider-Man. Basically, they finally looked at how the US currently looked and translated it into the page. Still, this was met with tons of criticism. People never really run out of things to bitch about.

But, for all the criticisms, in my opinion, the comics still went about it correctly.

A Simple Solution


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What if the films followed the comics' example and just created new characters? Would that be so hard? That would take away the need to convolutedly explain why the Human Torch was African-American and the Invisible Woman was a caucasian woman when they should be full-blooded siblings. Not adopted. More importantly, you wouldn't need to make Wally West into an African-American but then backtrack and say that he was another Wally West and the "classic" Wally West was still a caucasian ginger and that they were cousins! For the love of all that is good and holy!

Samuel L. Jackson was such a badass that they created a "new" Nick Fury (Jr.) just so they could use his likeness. Donald Glover was so charismatic in his attempt to audition as the new Spider-Man (which Andrew Garfield eventually nabbed ugh!) that they created Miles Morales (the other Spider-Man) in the comics.

They can use the multiverse excuse all they want, but the simple fact is if they create a different character, they could have more new stories, add another revenue stream and still appease the current fans along with those seeking gender and race equality. Problems with name recognition? Introduce the new character alongside the old one and work the transition from there. If the new one is popular enough, then they're worthy to carry the torch. And, if they aren't, then think of it as doing market research. They move on to a new torchbearer and try again. Take that for data.

That wasn't hard was it? Do you still want to skin me alive? Let me know in the comments section. I'll tell you the time and place.



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Interesting, though I am more of a DC guy.

Recently there was/is a Supergirl tv series. Most of it is okay, but when they started to change things to make their series interesting to what they think is their new market, they lost me.

The girl who is her adopted sister was never a lesbian, but now she is. Superman's friend, Jimmy Olsen, is a redhead with freckles and has the personality to suit...so...now he is black, but with a personality of a redhead? Anyway, he was never a reporter, he is the guy who takes the photos.

Some years ago they changed Supes into some mod version, but luckily changed him back.

Whether the companies like it or not, there must be some kind of continuity and changes justified, or else we stop 'believing' in their characters.

Interesting, though I am more of a DC guy.

Don't get me wrong, man. I'm a 10-1 Marvel guy, which means that for every 10 Marvel characters I like, I like 1 DC character. Put simply, I'm not 100% Marvel haha

Recently there was/is a Supergirl tv series. Most of it is okay, but when they started to change things to make their series interesting to what they think is their new market, they lost me.

Haha! Funny you mentioned that! The TBT for this week actually includes that heavily so you might want to tune in for that. It would be interesting to read your thoughts about it. As for the nitpick, yeah I'm still on the fence about the change to Jimmy Olsen. He has always been portrayed as a good sidekick, so the change really makes it hard to believe he ever was. The character was terribly miscasted, and I feel like they should've written him out some time ago. They tried to make him a love interest, but it never really worked. Now, he has very little going for him.

As for the sister, I'm actually okay with her being a lesbian. Because, you know, I think they're making her into the live action version of Kate Kane (aka Batwoman). Everything fits so far. Lesbian, Maggie Sawyer's girlfriend, martial arts skills.

As for Supes, yeah, I'm glad they changed him back. They try to make him hip, and they completely missed the point.

I got to the bit where you were talking about how they were swapping gender/race/etc for characters and my immediate thought was wtf no just make more bloody characters (well that was the distilled societally friendly version, what went on in my head was slightly more violent and crass than that XD) oh well that's probably Jed's point that was on thatpiece of paper that was lost.

What if the films followed the comics' example and just created new characters?

Oh look! XD

I haven't really watched any movies recently, in the last few...damn it's over a deacade x_x...as I got bored after a while, everything was pretty samey as the movie industry (at least the stuff out of Hollywood) seemed firmly ensconsed in a delusion of security and were only determinedly making things that had done well before to guarantee a good return. I guess it's working out for them as a lot of people seem to like knowing how the movie is going to go, so it will just have to be outliers like me that get bored ;D

In truth that was a lot of what put me off the Marvel/DC comics as well (I did use to read them once upon a time before I suddenly stopped liking superheroes), I'm a really character driven kinda person XD

goatsig

I really wanted to get to that point from the very beginning. I feel like we were syncing again in terms of the profanities when I was writing the whole piece. Haha! I couldn't keep it straight, I just wanted to get to the point quickly. I feel like this is the weakest TBT so far though, especially when I re-read my previous piece. I don't know why it is, but I always feel the ones I've written before are far superior than the newer ones haha!

What pop culture are you and JJ showing the children then? Many of the movies do feel formulaic, and I'm not talking about the purported Marvel Formula. Just the movies in general, I feel like they're playing it safe and just rehashing whatever worked for the more succesful movies. It sucks because it stalls growth and it feels like they're just milking people's money by presenting the same thing wrapped in different packages. Which is ironic, because this feels like a rehash of your sentiment wrapped in different wordings hahahaha!!

I do get bored, even though I still mostly consume it. The thing is, I keep saying that I'm doing research as an excuse, because I really am. While most people are rehashing stuff, I'm listing down stuff that hasn't been done and try to incorporate those in my stories. I guess that's why they aren't as popular as others haha!

There are a lot of pretty standard stuff nowadays, but there are still gems that are worth a look. I feel like we're pretty much in agreement in terms of what stories we like, yeah? Matt Fraction's work comes into mind when I think of character-driven stuff. His recent Hawkeye run is by far one of my favorite comic runs ever. He also has this graphic novel called "Sex Criminals" which is super R Rated, but at its core is a deep character study.

I like Japanese Spiderman best

Pitaru Parikeru

Haha! You know, I was supposed to include that because I saw it during my search for an image. I just couldn't find a place for octopus tentacles. But, now that I think about it, there's always a place for octopus tentacles!

Yes!! This is perfect. Now I, being an American white girl, sorry that's not pc but I'm too lazy to scroll up for the correct spelling of cauc....which I'm suddenly curious as to the root of...anyway while I am a female which might at least give some leeway, still it's difficult to try and explain this exact position to people without them immediately tuning me out angrily before actually hearing me out. It's annoying considering I don't and have never had an iota of prejudice. Which my true friends will attest to, my brothers from other mothers and sisters from other misters who live scattered across the globe ;)
But you have solved the issue splendidly and I hope going forward Marvel would do exactly this.

Awesome thought bubble bro, I'm really loving these comic book Thursdays!

You know, I feel relieved that you haven't experienced it. I feel like this is something that doesn't qualify to that "you have to experience it to find out" sort of thing. I don't want people to experience it, especially not my friends. But, as evident from the media, there are a lot of women and minorities that experience it on the daily. I do hope the trend changes for the better.

Oh man, I do hope that Marvel gets to read this and hires me hahaha! I'm so happy to hear that you're enjoying these TBTs! Warms my heart to no end :D I'm surprised about the reception this series has gotten. It's a welcome surprise for sure!

For many years Pop-Eye was our great spinach eating sorta super-hero who battled the evil bully Bluto. Ah but his legacy is fading fast. For me the super hero with a lasting legacy is Superman, but even the super guy is showing his age.

Superman feels like a relic of an earlier time. No offense meant, man. I feel like the ideals he stands for and the way he goes about things aren't suited in the current socio-political climate. Now that you mention it, I feel Popeye is even more relevant than Supes. The little guy standing up to the big bully, I think that concept is still very much relevant to this very day. Olive is a bit outdated, but Popeye's ideals? I feel like hackers and anarchists live up to the ideals that the sailor man stood for.

Dear @jedau, I am white, but I don't relate to these characters at all, no matter of their color or race. I can relate to Mr Miyagi, or the teaching couple from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, or the Bulletproof Monk - they are skilled, benevolent and peaceful. You see, to me these movies explain that, if the teacher isn't peaceful than the apprentice won't render peaceful and respecting the peaceful rules to create/restore balance, and use the learned skills benevolently, - the apprentices of unpeaceful teachers might become skillful, even proficient, but not necessarily in benevolent way.
Most probably you know that those movie companies test the reactions of the audience to the movie. I don't know, maybe they just don't do it all over the planet for the reason unknown to me. My guess is money, but that's just a guess, it could be some agenda of placing some messages into other people's minds&hearts, too. Sometimes the sentences in movies are extracted directly from the ancient texts - it's incredible what they try to instill into humans. Not all ancient texts are benevolent and not everything in them either as you most probably know, otherwise there would be no wars or superbia attitudes on this planet.
Movies are sort of a mirror that reflects the current state of attitudes, ideas, technology, environment - whatever is there and whatever the paying side wants to sell or the ideas they want to instill. Sometimes they are benevolent, but many times not. They don't necesarilly depict the truthfull events as they try to please the audience and earn as much as possible. I remember reading an article - I guess it was about Platoon or some other war movie - when the US army didn't wan't to cooperate and lend the moviemakes the machinery - the army figured that the movie made them so much damage that from then on they strictly cooperated and modified the sreenplays as well. ???
You see, when I returned from US, I told my beloved aunt that there is exactly like in the movies. She replied, "Only a bit beautified and polished." "Yeah," was my answer.

The way they do it is they gather a focus group to test the audience reaction. It's just that sometimes, focus groups aren't that diverse and are representative of the audience that could potentially consume their material. Sometimes, they might feel like they're too big to fail and become complacent.

I do agree that movies are reflective of the current socio-political climate, or at least they should be. There are an increasing number of properties that do make an effort, but there are still those that are stuck in a bygone mentality. With awareness increasing every day, I'm sure that those who refure to adapt would be left in the dust.

Saya sangat menyukai posting anda

Thank you for the compliment, but you didn't even vote. Also, complimenting doesn't give you the right to just paste a link to your post. Not cool, man.

Nice post :)

Thanks for the vote! Although, I do wish that you left a more thoughtful comment. "Nice post" will undoubtedly get you flagged, so it's best to avoid that and instead comment something thoughtful about the post, alright?

lol, you still trying to teach them? I have given up, especially after being sworn at. I think it is a law of nature, they have to go down to zero before they'll start thinking for themselves.

Haha sometimes I have very little patience for them. But, for the times that I do, I try to turn them to the light haha!

Hmm.. because "Nice Post" is what spammers leave to try and drive people to their posts. It almost always never works. You don't want to be labelled a spammer now, don't you?

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