"Down-Voting as Censorship" - A Series About Fixing Steemit - Part 2

in #steemit6 years ago


In a recent post, Jerry Banfield, Down-Voting & Freedom of Speech, I specifically discussed the recent Whale Meltdown regarding Banfield, arguably Steemit's "most visible" member, and the issue of down-voting as a means of censorship in general. 

I received numerous excellent comments. One of them was from @fionasfavourites (incidentally, an excellent writer). In her comment, she described a recent spate of auto-downvoting abuse to which she, and many others, had fallen prey. 

I've had all my recent posts downvoted by the current crop of downvoting bots that have overrun steemit in the last few days. One of these had been written as a tribute to a young woman killed in a car accident a few days earlier. Another was a food picture and the third, which has had more than one downvote, was about our cats, one of which has recently had to be sent to cat heaven. 

She subsequently sent me a hyperlink to an article by @guiltyparties (a Witness) respecting the incident. Having read through the comments section of that post, I decided to create a post about an idea I believe would end down-voting abuse, in whatever form, immediately. 

In the aforementioned article about Banfield, I argued that down-voting should be used to police "Offensive Behaviors" but never "Offensive Speech." I invite you to read the article to understand my rationale (and be sure to read the comments section as well ... there's some excellent, and very well-written, commentary).

Anarchy & Cryptocurrencies

One of the problems with the world of cryptocurrencies is that they were, for the most part, created by people who call them, "anarchists." Anarchist derives from the word "anarchy," which is a synonym for "chaos." It's hard to sell people on the idea that chaos is a good thing, so the words FREEDOM & LIBERTY are trotted out to reframe the debate. It's the oldest rhetorical trick in the book, invented by the ancient Athenians.

But, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet," as Shakespeare reminds us. Calling a dog a cat changes nothing of its essential nature. Chaos is chaos. Steemit has a lot of problems that stem from the fact that there are very few Rules of Conduct. I am a political and philosophical Centrist. What that means is that I don't care about ideology, in fact, I'm highly suspicious of it. I am a card-carrying member of the Church of Whatever Works. I don't care about the pedigree of an idea (Right, Left or Center). What I care about is whether it makes sense, and whether it actually solves the problem at hand.

Steemit and Down-Voting Abuse

Steemit is a blockchain whose very raison d'etre is the Monetization of Content. And so, when content starts getting demonetized for any reason other than "Offensive Behaviors," we've got a problem. Specifically, when it's used to punish "Offensive Speech," we enter into the realm of Speech Suppression and thereby create the justification for a competing cryptocurrency-backed blockchain.

The problem, of course, is that what constitutes, "Offensive Behavior," is subjective. Abusively, anything could be called, "Offensive Behavior," just as many activists now call anything they disagree with, "Hate Speech." So, how do we solve this seemingly intractable problem? I would submit, the same way it's been solved for over a thousand years in the real world ... a jury of your peers.

Let A Jury Decide

Let's say that @trumpsmyhero creates a post supporting Trump. @theresistence doesn't bloody well like it. And, in his world, anyone who supports Trump must be punished ... because any such support, in and of itself, is immoral. @theresistence believes in de-platforming Trump supporters, silencing them so that their ideas, ideals and insights cannot be heard, and doesn't give a hoot if this constitutes Speech Suppression

And so, @theresistence downvotes @trumpsmyhero's post.

There was nothing in @trumpsmyhero's post that would constitute "Offensive Behavior." It wasn't spam, a scam and there was no bid-bot abuse. It did not physically threaten anyone and did not untruthfully disparage anyone's reputation. And so, @trumpsmyhero feels that the downvote was abusive and decides to hit the newly-created Appeal Button.

The Appellate Process

An Appeals Request is randomly sent to three Steemians ("Jurists") with reputation scores above 35 (they're not complete newbies). To ensure there will be no retaliation from either @trumpsmyhero or @theresistence, the identity of such Steemians is kept anonymous (see the Note below). Further, the names of the two disputants are blanked out so as not to unduly influence the Jurists.  

The three Jurists review the post and the rationale for the down-vote, as articulated in the Down-Vote Justification Form below:


The Jurists will have two choices about how to proceed:

1. Support the Down-Vote, in which case the down-vote stands ... but the down-vote gets doubled. The reason for the doubling is that the poster wasted 3 Steemians time with a spurious Appeal when he/she knew that he/she was guilty. This is necessary as, without it, every down-vote will be Appealed. 
2. Overturn the Down-Vote, in which case the down-vote is erased from the author's post ... and is instead applied to the down-voter's account, adversely effecting the next post, or posts, that the down-voter makes, until the full amount of the down-vote has been used up. This is to punish the down-voter for down-voting a post with no motivation other than censorship ... Speech Suppression. 


Note: As everything that occurs on the blockchain is publicly accessible, this would have to be built into a non-publicly-accessible side-chain, or, off the blockchain entirely (like Discord), so as to ensure anonymity of the Jurists and prevent retaliation. 

Preserving The Argument

The argument in favor of down-voting posts is that it is the only tool of coercion available to enforce compliance with community standards. And, I agree ... with respect to "Offensive Behaviors." 

If one spends a few hours watching the Steemit-promotional videos that run on YouTube and Facebook, one of the selling points for the blockchain, that everybody touts, is the absence of censorship. "Unlike YouTube, you won't be demonetized because a group of advertisers doesn't like your content." 

That's baloney, and we all know it.

Unless it's the result of "Offensive Behaviors," down-voting is demonetization and demonetization is censorship. A rose is a rose.

Pandora's Box

At present, the subject-matter concentration of Steemit posts don't even faintly resemble the subject-matter concentrations of the other major social media platforms. Cryptocurrency- and photo-related posts are, for example, dramatically over-represented and politics- and celebrity-related posts are dramatically under-represented.

As Steemit grows, this will change. 

As it does, the number of posts dealing with controversial subjects will undoubtedly increase by orders of magnitude. If Speech Suppression is a growing problem now, just wait. What happens when the Social Justice Warriors decide to silence conservatives and when conservatives decide to band together and retaliate? What happens when each side recruits a few whales? Or brings in a few from the outside?

Pandemonium. 

There's a reason Pandora's Box ... had a lid. 


Quill.



This is an extremely important issue, effecting the very essence of the blockchain. 

So please ... ReSteem this Post. 

We need to hear what everyone thinks. 

And that includes you. You know the drill, Comment away ... but No Down-Voting!!!

*****

AND 

Stay tuned for upcoming Articles in this Series about Steemit's Systemic Problems ...

and my ideas on how to fix them.



Sort:  

Full disclosure: I am the technical writer and admin for the @sadkitten down voting bot, so obviously I support down voting / flagging, and here's why.

Down voting is voting, just like up voting. It is an expression of disagreement, contrary to an up vote agreement. But it is not directly a disagreement with the content of a post (though it might indirectly be), it is a disagreement that it should be rewarded. It is primarily an economic value judgement, technically like a public vote on a price. Some other blockchains use betting mechanisms and they are similar, but stake based voting is simpler.

There are three possible states that any post can have in relation to an account. The most common is not voted on at all, for obvious reasons. The other two are having given an up vote or a down vote, which is a vote with positive or negative weight. It is not directly about abuse or content, it is about what should be rewarded. The point is that any and all votes can be cast, and every one is open to everyone.

The Steem blockchain is constantly refilling a pool to rewards which are distributed according the to the system wide free vote. Votes are obviously weighted by stake, instead of the popular democratic model of one person one vote, for technical and political reasons. It basically boils down to that those with the most to gain or lose should have the most say, as their investment is more on the line (skin in the game).

Of course a culture has developed around down votes which see them as abuse flags only. This is I feel to the determent of the larger platform, and it was instigated pretty foolishly by Steemit Inc. as first UI on steemit.com . But it would be in turn foolish of anyone to deny the existence of this cultural view, it informs people's thought and action here. That said it's something I try to bring up and maybe something we can change about the culture if enough people want to.

For the moment down votes flags are used by the majority of people, and especially large stakeholders, to disagree about rewards only in extreme cases. For many this strongly applies to what is trending because of how that makes the platform look to the outside. Jerry's post was one such case, where he had paid to have his very weird post massively rewarded by bid bots, which many whales decided to down vote. As I understand it they didn't think it merited the rewards, and they used their stake to express that disagreement.

In my own work and actions I keep my down voting to the clear abuse categories, at least as I see them. @sadkitten is a bot which down votes the most optimally self voting accounts. These actions are premised on an analysis of the behavior self rewarding which a small community effort is against. My surveys indicate there is widespread support for it, but even still I am personally convinced, though I am always open to discussing it and being persuaded differently.

Down voting is important on a platform which has no official guardians. Introduce guardians, and you centralize the power, which is problematic, arguably more problematic than the distributed stake system we currently have. There have been suggestions of juries and councils before but they would be so difficult to organize and so susceptible to corruption that they are very difficult to imagine working. I have never seen a debate last very long on them. I can dig up some old ones if you are interested.

A last small point, you statement here:

Anarchist derives from the word "anarchy," which is a synonym for "chaos." It's hard to sell people on the idea that chaos is a good thing, so the words FREEDOM & LIBERTY are trotted out to reframe the debate. It's the oldest rhetorical trick in the book, invented by the ancient Athenians.

This is intellectually lazy. You may disagree with anarchism (and I too find it difficult in many ways) but to say the political philosophy of it is akin to chaos is laughable. It is better understood as deeply anti-authoritarian, as anarchism actually means "without rulers". I admire your pragmatic streak (the church of whatever works) but to engage with your opponents you must at least see them for what they are, not some strawman you can easily dismiss.

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Hey, I've got several visits from these bots. Since they didn't possess any SP there was no influence and I ignored them.

I am out of the loop when it comes to current hot stuff (and holy wars) on Steem. It's so nice to be on a long vacation :)

You've written some very valid points here. This platform is a mirror of real life. There is no way of hiding nor denying this fact. We can introduce real-life solution then :)

@ervin-lemark,

Hey Ervin ... seemed like a good vacation. I loved the photos. I'm green with envy.

Hey, I've got several visits from these bots. Since they didn't possess any SP there was no influence and I ignored them.

Essentially, that's what I'm doing too. Still, I'm curious about what they're up to. In a game of chess, you always want to be playing several moves ahead so as not to get surprised. Is there some sneaky way they can create problems? If you're a "Negative Infinity" (I've got 4-5 of those), what's the point of Following anyone?

I am out of the loop when it comes to current hot stuff (and holy wars) on Steem.

"Holy Wars" ... that is, unfortunately, a very apt description. When things get "ideological," it becomes all-but-impossible to solve even the simplest of problems. Everybody's IQ's plummet. We're fiddling while Rome burns. Cryptocurrencies are extremely east to create, hence the reason there's so many of them. We will have direct competition ... SOON!

If we don't do what we know needs to be done, we'll become MySpace 2.0 in short order. Unfortunately, the only thing we seem to be able to agree on is that "it's someone else's fault."

Personally, I think Slovenia is to blame. And why not? Ljubljana ... How the Hell is anyone supposed to know how to pronounce THAT? It seems like they're just trying to be difficult. :-)

Some of the systemic problems that plague Steemit are extremely self-evident, and their solutions rather simple ... if we could get past the Utopian dogmas that are overriding Common Sense. This article is part of a Series of Articles that address some of both.

Wish me luck. Hopefully, I won't be a "Negative Infinity" by the time my Series is complete. Some people (those bloody Slovenians) have a real aversion to "Common Sense" solutions. :-)

Quill.

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Such a great idea I started looking for the Appeals Button. ;-) I recently wrote about a Thunderstorm and incurred the wrath of two downvoters. I was a bit surprised because the post had nothing to do with politics or hate speech; it told the story of a weary driver smelling a desert thunderstorm and getting refreshed. Anyway, I let it go because I'm so new I didn't know what to do honestly.

Another time I was downvoted because the wrong whale supported me. Sort of a blanket downvote to warn others to stay out of the pond.

The second time really hurt because it was a piece of fiction and again, I stay away from politics.

I read both of your posts on Speech Suppression and it gave me much to ponder. Thanks.

@wordymouth,

Excellent commentary and very well articulated.

Another time I was downvoted because the wrong whale supported me. Sort of a blanket downvote to warn others to stay out of the pond.

This kind of nonsense is intolerable. Freedom of Association.

... and again, I stay away from politics

But you shouldn't have to. You have a right to articulate your thoughts as others have a right to articulate theirs. Not to put too fine a point on it ... but you are censoring yourself because you are unwilling to pay the price of being uncensored. NOTHING in life is free. If your mind is not allowed to generate thoughts worthy of mention, then what's the point of your having one?

"All it takes for evil to prevail in the world is for men of good conscience to say nothing." (An additional misquote of an endlessly misquoted quote).

I believe my proposal would resolve this matter in a simple and straight-forward manner. The world is neither beautiful nor ugly. It is both. To get the former, you tolerate the latter. That's what Freedom of Speech means.

To all readers of this comment: I have done a thing in the writing of this post. Now you must do a thing for its distribution. We all know how this works. In less than six days, it will expire and no one will ever see it again. ReSteem the post and make it the subject of a thousand conversations. If there's something wrong with my proposal ... fine, what is it? I have articulated why I believe we should do it, let those who disagree articulate why we should not.

Quill.

This is a really good idea, certainly something needs to be done to solve the problem of people opening up 100's of accounts and then using them via a bot to flag random posts. The flags themselves are tiny, but for many it is the actual fact they received a flag upsets them as they feel it reflects on what they did in their post.

Long term I can see your point as well that opposing groups might start deciding to sensor content they do not agree with - that could certainly become a much bigger problem and is exactly where a flag approval panel as you suggest ensures flags are used fairly and justly.

c0ff33commentaimage.png
#thealliance #witness

@c0ff33a,

I was very curious to see what you thought of this proposal. I was going to DM you, "Get your ass over to my blog ..."

people opening up 100's of accounts and then using them via a bot to flag random posts.

Curiously, in the past week or so, I received dozens of new Followers with very negative reputation scores ... including several with Negative Infinity (one wonders what you have to do to earn a negative infinity score). They've come in waves, with each wave Following at the same time (so, presumably, it's the same person with numerous accounts). Do you know anything of their intentions? I can't imagine that my paltry payouts engender a "curation trail" profit motive.

If anyone else has any thoughts, please chime in.

By The Way, @c0ff33a is beginning the long and laborious assent to a Witness status that actually matters ... Top 20. I've already enthusiastically voted for him and would encourage others to investigate his history and consider his elevation. If there is a person more dedicated to Steemit (I personally have speculated that there must be two of him due to his ubiquitous presence EVERYWHERE), I am unaware of their identity. He is a good and honorable man (with little understanding of mathematics, given the amount of time he spends helping people with $0.002 upvotes) ... and I am not one to use those words lightly.

Quill.

Posts like these always fail to address what I feel is the most important use of the flag. Disagreement with rewards. I can't speak for everyone of course but I believe one of the reasons Jerry Banfield's posts started to get a lot of flags was the absurd amount of money they were getting, largely due to bots. There is a set amount in the reward pool every day and by flagging or upvoting you are really voting on how you think rewards should be distributed.

It's a different story of course if someone is getting flagged to the point of posts being hidden. Then it obviously isn't about just the rewards.

I'm not saying there is no abuse going on, but disagreement with rewards is an absolutely legitimate and encouraged way to use the flag.

@darth-azrael,

Posts like these always fail to address what I feel is the most important use of the flag.

I completely agree with all the things you articulated. As you can see, though, this post was already really long ... and hence, my Series of Articles. In my next article (almost finished), I will address the bid-bot problem.

Quill.

Hi, just read it.....
If only Steemit would listen....
But they not listen....

Posted using Partiko Android

@zanoni,

Alas, it seems you are right. With no realistic competition for three years, the blockchain has become complacent. The handful of potential challengers that sporadically apppeared (WEKU, WhaleShares, Narrative) flamed out without adverse consequence. And hence, we now have no fear. We feel invulnerable. We can no longer even distinguish between house cats ... and a lion (EOS/MEOS).

This, I fear, is going to result in a lot of good people losing their hard-earned money because they were blinded by their faith.

BTW, thanks for clicking through ... that by itself is unusual.

Quill

I'd rather if there was a way to eliminate all bots.

Maybe the first step would be to eliminate delegation of voting.

If you want to down-vote, do it manually and post a detailed comment when you do it. Stop being a coward hiding behind a bot.

As for the anarchy thing, welp, the might ruling over the small is exactly how anarchy ends up.

I am certain this post and the many thoughtful comments articulate wisdom well beyond my comprehension, and I accept this in life. But mainly because life itself is on a clock. I also accept this. As such the desision to look into the eyes of a loved one or feel my dog nuzzle to get closer to me, I further accept.... as more valuable life experience than which courtesan to side with here.

There is a reason a child can successfully use an iPad, with no instructions, but the instructions not followed for medications kills adults daily.

Cheers

ps Please vote your conscience in regards to this comment, I would, knowing the sun will rise tomorrow.

Posted using Partiko Android

Excellent suggestion. I also really like your centrist attitude and agree completely with it. Too often today we hear things like "that's a [libertarian, socialist, conservative] approach" when we really need to be doing careful problem analysis and then using evidence and logic to evaluate possible solutions to problems that we agree on. Of course, not everyone agrees that situations are problems. I may feel that content is being rewarded on Steemit without respect to quality and that we should make changes to decrease the behaviors that lead to that, but those who are selling steem and profiting from it may disagree with me.

@toddrjohnson,

Beautifully written comment. This post is bringing excellent writers out of the woodwork. As I cannot improve upon a single syllable, I will settle for, "Bravo!"

Stay tuned ... I'm creating a Series of Articles that discuss some ways of dealing with some of Steemit's most thorny systemic problems.

Nice to meet you, sir.

Quill.

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