Gravely Disabled - What Does It Take To Be Considered Gravely Disabled...By The VA???
VASH – Veteran’s Administration Supportive Housing Case-manager
Donna is the building manager., wife of a Vet, and lives in the building.
I finally figured this all out – after transcribing all these texts today – The VA has no intention of ever helping William – they will never declare him Gravely Disabled no matter how much evidence I give them – because somehow that would make them financially liable for his life from that moment on – and it’s all about the bottom line. So they would rather let him die on the street than give him the care he deserves for putting his life on the line by volunteering to be a soul-dier. Just shows the satanic nature of our military.
Monday July 29
Me: I have called you and left messages for you at this number and for your assistant KC and no one has called me back. William seems to need professional help- he is so angry that he is raving at me constantly. He is bringing home trash from the street and putting it in the kitchen and on my desk demanding that I make art out of it - in addition he was banned from the club where his AA group meets for being disruptive many times and although I don't agree with this it should prove to you that I am not making this up. Certainly the proprieter might be willing to talk to you to verify what I am telling you. Please Help! I have to stay home and look for a new job and it is very difficult to live with him in this condition - I would say he has stopped taking his meds even though he tells me he is taking them PLEASE HELP -
Chris, VASH: I’m sorry. I have received your messages and I appreciate you letting me know. Due to confidentiality we are not permitted to talk about patient care. I have spoken with Donna. I will also call the property management company. I will try to reach William today and will come by if needed.
Me: Thanks -I think William needs to go to the hospital.
Chris, VASH: Will he go willingly?
Me; I don’t know. He thinks he's fine and certainly I am not the one who he will listen to- because anytihng I say just sets off another tirade - you can try it but don't mention my name.
Chris, VASH: Ok I’ll call him later this morning and will come by if needed
Me: Thanks- he just left but I'm sure he has his phone - For the future please let's have me and William sign some HEPPA form so that you can discuss his care with me.
William didn’t make it to his doctor’s appointment last week because he did not have bus fare , he said - Donna said he qualifies for a monthly VA bus pass- that would be good because he has been panhandling for money and for cigarettes and bus fare -I just talked to Donna - she said that Friday William demanded that the locks be changed on the apartment and he was giving my books away (I was out of town for the weekend) - she said he goes up to people at the bus stop and just starts ranting at them. She said he blows snot out of his nose in the foyer - she said he gets really nasty to her and others in the building- she said that he said he lost his job driving - also that he is in and out of the building at all hours of the night- there's other stuff I cannot remember
The doc appt at the VA was for a sonagram to see if there is an obstruction in his gut that is causing him to lose weight - so that still needs to be taken care of thanks.
Chris, VASH: Ok I'll definitely talk to him and come by. This is a big change. Do you know why he lost his job? Also he cannot just lock you out or change the locks. He would need to take you off the lease first.
Me: This is as much as I know - Dennis is his employer "gave" William a red Toyota Sienna minivan to use to get to and from Dennis's house in South Denver and he gave William permission to use the van to get to meetings but William moved into the van - he took all of his clothes, books, and art supplies, bed clothes, food etc and some of my books (without my permission) and put them in the van - then he got his "friend" Joe - a homeless drunk guy he met in the street - who had just gotten a social security back check - to fill the tank with gas and he started driving Joe around town - even going up to Loveland to camp out at the Big Thompson Canyon campground overnight - He called to tell me this - then he got lost on the way home and drained the gas tank up somewhere in Northfield. He called me to help him get home- and then he called me demanding I get him some gas - this was about 2 weeks ago Dennis called him and wanted to see the van - now it has 300 new miles on it and is a totally a filthy mess - so Dennis takes the car back from William - because William could not keep his word or follow directions - William also made arrangements with some William he met at 7-11 to drive the guy to work for money - all this under Dennis's insurance - so he got fired.
He's in Apartment 402.
William just called me to tell me that he is paying Donna $100 to get someone to put a deadbolt on the apartment today- because "they" have been coming in and out of the apartment for years. I called Donna to try to cancel this order in case it is real.
Me: PLEASE CALL THE AMBULANCE - he is threatening me.
Chris, VASH and Donna "made me" call the cops for them. In other words, they would do nothing and they insinuated that I was the only one who could call the cops. Being naive, I tried it to see what would happen. Nothing happened.
Me: The cops left- they suggested that you get him a psychiatric evaluation and get his meds adjusted - and that we are to call if anything changes. William just left and accused me of lying and calling the cops - in a quiet voice.
Me: I told William about the free buss pass Donna said he qualifies for
Chris, VASH: Good I'm planning on trying to see him today if he will. You did what you felt was right. I know it's a tough situation. We will help him on our end to the extent he will let us.
Me: Ok thanks, Please do not mention that I called the cops on him - I told him I did not - i did it because you and Donna said it was the only option
Chris, VASH: I think if you felt threatened it was the right option. It's what I would have told anyone in the same situation. I will not say anything to him about you.
Me: There was nothing they could do because it's not illegal to be mentally ill. Thanks - also I would appreciate being put on his HEPPA form.
Chris, VASH: What form? Oh
Me: Hippa or Hipaa ??
Chris, VASH: William would need to sign a release
Me: So that I am allowed to talk to you
Chris, VASH: Yes I’ll ask if he's willing
Chris, VASH: Ypu can talk to me. I just can't tell you anything about him.
Me; I know.
Chris, VASH: You've been good for William. But you also need to do what's right for you. We will help William.
Me: It's best for both of us to have housing - I now have to find yet another job.
Hi- I just wanted to let you know that William signed up for a burial insurance policy that I think might be a scam - Pioneer American Insurance company - they will take $146 a month out of his check monthly - so I will supposedly get $13000 burial ins when he dies. I have a bout feeling about this.
Chris, VASH; Ok I will look into it thank you.
Me: When I asked William if he had taken his meds tonight he refused to answer- instead cussed me out screaming at the top of his lungs that I had woken him up- lept out of bed in a threatening manner - I don't think he's taking them.
Me: I wish I could talk him out of the burial insurance because he has no money to eat and buy tobacco - let's work on that ok?
Chris, VASH: Yes I think as he gets closer to baseline he may change his mind.
Me: Ok your probably right.- now he just told me if this doesn't stop he's just moving on- too daa loo
Donna just called me and told me that William just yelled at her and she is getting to the end of her rope. She told me to calm him down which I just told him he needs to apologize to her and stop treating her that way. because she is getting sick of it
Chris, VASH: I talked to him in the parking lot. I would say just let him calm down. Hopefully this will pass.
Me; Yea I am just letting you know regarding Donna
Me; Hi Chris- just letting you know William brought this scary street guy into the apartment and sold him his bicycle - while I was here - and I told William if he ever does that again I am calling the cops immediately - so of course the threatens to move out -etc then Donna calls to tell me that she saw bring this guy into the apartment and am I ok? and I assured her that Iam.
Me: Once again William brought this dangerous guy Joe into the apartment without telling me just walks in with this guy - I cannot live like this.
Me: William has homeless Joe in the apartment qutie frequently which gives me the heebeegeebeez- I told Donna because she doesn't want Joe in the building but I really do not want William to know that I said anything cause it will cause chaos for me.
Me - hi Chris -William has started to work a little bit and now every day he is hounding me for $3 for the bus - is there a way we can put a rush on that bus pass? I still don’t have a job.
Me: Hi Chris,- although William is being a lot nicer to me I am just letting you know that William has given Joe permission to use our address for his mail. I cannot deal with this. I talked to Joe and I told him that he can have free mailbox at St Francis Center, but I cannot make him use it. I told William that he and I need to discuss this. When winter comes I do not want to be living with Joe and William.
Me: Hi Chris:
Just to let you know that yesterday when the exterminator came to spray for roaches, Donna says Joe was bathing in the tub- so I told Donna about the mail and she is going to tell the mailman not to deliver Joe's mail to our box anymore.
Sept 10 -
ME: Hi Chris: Just letting you know William seems to have switched back to the depressed guy- docile passive sleeping all the time
Me: William canceled the life insurance policy
Chris, VASH: It sounds like he is returning to baseline.
Chris, VASH: I am scheduled to see him on Mon.
Chris, VASH: This is Chris. Just wanted to let you know William signed a release yesterday allowing me to talk with you when needed. He seemed much better.
Me: Good thank you, Yes he’s back to his old self thank God.
Me: Hi Chris – just letting you know it seems like William is starting another manic episode.
Chris, VASH: what's he doing?
Me; he is borrowing money from unknown sources, getting up super early, shopping for unnecessary stuff, obnoxiously interrupting me while I am on the phone - having not gotten out of bed much for the last 2 weeks - not going to any meetings- now he was out all day yesterday went to 3- its not all “bad” going to meetings is good- but it may just resume the craziness of before… he got up at 3am yesterday to get to a 630 meeting whereas the last 2 weeks he sleeping till 11. I was thinking maybe his medication might need adjusting – ie he said he was on Lithium for 9 years and they took him off it because he has been on it “too long” but this med is not balancing him – it is subduing the edge slightly- but he is in no way balanced- maybe it’s time to get something else?? He has been on this for at least 5 years but longer as the initial prescription came from Berkeley Mental Health.
ME: I got home and William's not here but the stove was left on.
Me: Now William is starting to yell at me and abuse me- just coming out of his room yelling at me and accusing me of stealing his belongings.
Escalating, Joe is here now and William is cussing me out
Me: I’ve told William now that we are not speaking -that I am not going to speak to him just because he speaks to me
Me: Chris – William did not come home last night – I finally got a hold of him just now- he said he is at the VA Med Center to get a blood test. He did not take his meds because they are here – He says he had no money to get home but couldn’t call me- said he spent the night wandering the
the mall because he has no money to get home – didn’t call because he lost his phone – but has it back now- says he will the rent today ??? But is OFF HIS MEDS – so who knows – this is not good - PLEASE HELP!! I asked hi if he is going to get his meds adjusted but he said he’s not seeing his doctor 0 I think he needs help with this – he was abusive towards me so Im not the one who will be able to help him.
Chris, VASH: Ok I will call thanks for letting know
Me; I just called him – he;s still out in the street – he’s eating lunch – I asked him to call me when he gets home – he said he would – hasn’t taken meds- hasn’t paid rent- although says he will- he was yelling at me – I told him I can pick him up after 3 … but he assures me he’ll be home by then. I am going to be gone all day tomorrow- I’m worried about him.
Chris, VASH: I’ll call today.
Just talked to him. He didn’t want to talk. He’s mad about the bus pass. Other than being angry I dont’ think he’s a threat to himself or others. He wouldn’t talk about the rent but he has been pretty good about it. Please keep me posted about his appointment to get his meds adjusted.
(Chris failed to tell William about this free bus pass that he could have had for the last 5 years – it is pretty appalling – and so William hates Chris for this – understandable)
Me: Thanks for calling I hope go with him to his appointment.
Chris, VASH: I don’t think he would let me.
Me; I just got home. William is not home but Joe is sleeping on William’s floor. WTF”””” I asked Joe if he’s sleeping over- he asked if it’s ok ? I said it is not ok but I cannot do anything about it.
Me: Good Morning Chris! Just FYI- William told me that he canceled his doc appointment – and is going to take his meds till they run out and then he is going off them because he is healed. He told me this a few days ago when he was off his meds. I checked back in wit him last night saying I wanted to go with him Oct 11 and he again stated that he is not going back to the doctor ever and is planning on going off his meds when they run out. I told him that he is not healed and that I wont be able to live with him if he goes off his meds and of course he is fine with that – as he says I will have to move out etc which I of course I cannot do that. Etc Maybe this will change however it is interesting that not much changes when he is on or off his meds with regard to his plans- although the meds do take the edge off his super scary crazy self- he seems very angry at the VA for some reason having to do with with whatever happens to him when he goes there to get the blood test. He cannot see that his behavior brings on his difficulties and at you re the bus pass – I am not privy to the details on the latter- I watch him take his meds the other day- but maybe he’s not taking them all – I may take a closer look but I cannot force him to take them
Chris, VASH: I wills end a note to his doc about the matter. If he doesn’t want to go however we cant’ make him. If he is having a manic episode they can last from days to months so this may be part of a larger episode. As for the bus pass. He is angry because I had not referred him although when I asked about transportation he always said he was fine and that he needed transport you drove him. I think his anger is part of whatever si going on. I’m sorry you have to deal with the behavior.
Me; thank you for contacting his doc – William sternly told me that Joe’s mail would arrive here and I am not to send it back – it arrived today. Joe is not going to stay here in winter- yesterday William told me he has no $ - bought a bus pass and loaned to Joe along wit the other $400??? I don’t know – honestly I am going to have to begin looking for alternative living for myself. living with him absolutely sucks.
Me; Good evening Chris – tonight is the first time since I have known William that I gave him $20 to go to Safeway to get something for me and he did not return with the change – so either something happened to him or he just stole money from me – I guess I will find that out tomorrow- because he was headed to work afterward – he’s sleeping somewhere downtown where he is sleeping outside at some 711 in a cardboard box on the street so that he can be at Redi Temp services to work in the morning or so he says and this is all because he gave Joe $250 and Joe did not pay him back – just thought I would let you know what is going on – oh and William is not taking his meds regularly right now too.
Me: Hi Chris – William is alive and did steal my $
Me: Hi Chris – William gave me Dr. Maria Suarez MD as his psychiatrist at the VA and told me signed a form with her saying I can talk to her about him – I tried to call her today – the number would not go through- do you have a number for her?
Chris, VASH: This is the main number for the VA Hospital. She tried to call you on the 18th, did she reach you?
Me; No, I am trying her again this Friday.
Me: Omfg! I waited all day to get a call back from Dr. Suarez – and for some reason when she called at 630 it went straight to voicemail so I ave to wait another week and try again. Is there any way you can help me with this?She said if I am having problems with William I can bring him in – but you know I can’t physically bring him in and he hates me – can you ??? He is so manic 0 really needs medication adjustment thanks! I sent her a 4 page letter by mail.
Me: Chris, I found 5 empty 40 oz beer can si n my rag box that I keep in William’s bathroom closet that he claims are Joe’s. Of course Joe will be over today because of the weather. I told him I dont know if I can believe him nor do I want Joe over here – but William does Whatever he wants.
Chris, VASH: That is a depressing find. I hope he is telling the truth. He did not seem intoxicated when we met. He has been sober long enough that if he were drinking that much it would show. It’s a good that he has you as an advocate for his doctor. I’m hoping this is just a rough patch.
Me; Chris- I don’t really think William is drinking however if he continuous to hang out with Joe he likely will and letting Joe drinking he apartment shows his lack of ability to stand up for himself – which will eventually lead to alcohol getting the better of him. Joe should not be allowed in the apartment. But William is enamored with him.
Williams is still “depressed” - but a manic episode is likely to start soon enough based on the last few- hopefully his doc with change his meds.
ME: Chris- we have roaches and William’s room is not helping matters – it is filthy with piles of trash everywhere. I am no super clean person but this is out of control.
Me: Hi Chris: FYI my back is out so I had to cancel driving William to his doctor’s appointment sadly - I was in too much pain to drive and did not realize this until it was time to leave...but I did talk to her on the phone and she did not respond to any of the evidence I gave her for why he needs his meds adjusted till I said that he said that he cannot sleep when he’s manic and he wants them adjusted so he can sleep… it’s as then that she said there are many options for bipolar and schizo-effective they could try...he got a new appointment for Jan 10 and hopefully will be willing to go. When I asked him if he was willing to get his meds adjusted he said he was afraid of it. I told him I will pursue moving out if he does not because I cannot live with him this way and then he became more reasonable. It is very hard for me to be in this situation where I am immobile and trying to recover while he is off balance – please pass this on to his new case manager.
ME: HI Chris – sorry to bother you but I have been calling Monica since last Thursday with no response and I called Hanna Lambert last night with no response today- William is Manic and has been calling the police on me first last Thursday and then last night he accused me of stealing his raincoat and called 911. The cops asked me t leave the apartment – I have that back injury so it is difficult for me to go anywhere – I stayed at my boyfriend’s house- hardly slept though. We have that psych appt for Jan 10 but the cops want you guys to move his appointment up. Donna said that after I left she saw William outside in below freezing temperatures at 11pm barefoot.
Chris, VASH: Hi – Monica is on leave but Hannah asked me to help. I have an appointment right now but will call after. I m’ sorry to hear about this. I had hoped he was doing better.
Me: Thanks for getting back to me. I just got home and William is not here. He rearranged the apartment though – I called him and he says he is headed to the courthouse to begin eviction proceedings he asked me to pick him up- which I cannot do as I am in too much pain to drive. I called the mental health clinic and got permission to bring him in. But am not sure he will go. Dr Suarez’ supervisor is supposed to call me Friday – I really need help with this due to my injury. He’s not willing to go in to the clinic with either you or me Friday – still talking about eviction.
Chris, VASH – would he go with someone else if I could arrange it.
Me: No- he says I wont’ be taking him in Jan as I will be evicted.
Chris, VASH: well just tell him the offer stands – call Section 8 and get advice.
ME: Ok thanks
Chris, VASH: They will be able to tell you how to deal with this aspect.
ME: I left a message for our worker.
Chris, VASH: He would have to go through a formal process.
ME: True but he may be able to- if I don’t answer the door when I’m home I won’t get served. lust ist’ going to cost him money to go through the process to sure he has any – plus Section 8 or someone should see the condition of his room – they may not like what they see.
Me: Good morning Chris: I’m locked in my room here smelling cigarette smoke too afraid to leave. I now know Joe is here. The homeless guy. Is he VA going to do anything about this or not?
Chris, VASH: We are unable to do anything directly as far as the apartment goes. If your feeling threatened you should call the police. It’s also very important you consult with the housing authority. They will be able to tell you what steps to take regarding the lease.
Me: Thanks Chris – this is the truth that I have been coming to realize -you said that you said that “you would take care of William” a while back- so I assumed wrongly that the VA was committed to helping him get better mentally – now I see that it is entirely up to me to get that accomplished and since I am the enemy when he is manic, that nothing is going to get done in a timely manner for my sanity, I am currently not feeling physically threatened. I am threatened because my normal living conditions are threatened- I am living in a state of being locked in my room to avoid dealing with William and Joe and William’s antics. This threatens my mental and emotional well being and I will have to figure out how to deal with that myself. I now know that the VA does not see me as a helpful asset to William as I had wrongly assumed it did because the VA is unwilling to help me continue to live comfortably with William -to maintain the safe and comfortable atmosphere that I had tried to create for William so that he could recover – the VA is not supportive of that because I am not going to receive direct help to get William stabilized again back where he was when he got out of Valor Point (Homeless Vet Rehab). This is good information for me to know thank you.
Me: HI Chris I filed and incident report with the property manager.
Chris, VASH: Filing the report is the only thing to do considering his behavior. And no you should have to live that way.
Me: Hi Chris – Monica explained to me that William has to show “grave disability” to warrant being taken to the hospital.
I think I have evidence to prove that-
- The mere fact that he is trying to evict me is proof of it because he will not be able to live on his own and will go back to the street
- Remember he moved his belongings into the minivan back in the summer
- Now Sunday night- Donna saw him outside barefoot at 11pm
- Last night he could not turn the water off in the Kitchen and maintenance was called and they found that he was truing to tor the hot water off with the cold water handle and the kitchen could have flooded.
- He called the police on me because he wanted a piece of blank paper that was right there available t him in the living room- while I was in my room on the phone
- He accused me of stealing food from him that he hate himself- a steak – I watched him eat and then accused me of stealing it
This is looking a lot like manic paranoid psychosis – I’m no doctor but Ive read about it.
He also handed me an eviction notice last night – and told me I’ve been served – still I have not received a call back from Section 8
ME: You know William’s psychiatrist called me today and told me if it’s an emergency I should bring him in – and I called her back and left a message that he won’t go willingly so I can’t – the VA shrink and the cops tell you people at the VA to get him evaluated – and you DO NOTHING – and I- even Laura Holder at Section 8 (she called me yesterday) said he needs a psychiatric eval and that she is going to call Monica to get him one – and yet- none of you counselors will take him in to get one – he has to go on his own when he is manic????? It’s not going to happen. I have documented all of the texts I have written to you of his behavior- and still you made me call the cops and made me say he was a threat and you counselors do nothing – I’m starting to see a pattern here. What am I missing??? What makes you counselors actually follow police advice? Section 8 advice? His psychiatrists advice?
Tonite, William thinks he is going to move furniture from the Common Area to the upstairs apartment. He has 5 guys, he says, who will help him. A lot of my stuff is in the Common Area. I called the police and asked them what to do – the furniture actually belongs to the building. They suggested I do a civil standby- so now, I get to cancel attendance at this Christmas Party so I can call the cops for a civil standby to protect my belongings.
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