Some thoughts I've been having lately

in #blog7 years ago

I had a friendly,jokingly while maybe a little passive aggressive chat with @aggroed today about vote buying and that the current hardfork allows it. Maybe allows it is the wrong use, let's say makes it possible.

I understand that he came from the same thought process as I have and it basically ended with us agreeing that if we not everyone buys votes and uses these services, than the few doing so will have an edge over the rest of the community. Although most people have heard the saying "if your friends jump off a cliff, would you also jump?" I'm starting to see this a bit from a different perspective.

The last hardfork that created linear rewards did make things a lot more fair in my opinion, even though it is now enabling such services and letting them exist I believe that in the end it will allow for way more services to bloom through it such as @utopian-io. I started thinking of the usecase of Bitcoin, many know that in the beginning most people that used Bitcoin only used it for purchasing illegal substances or stuff like ransom payments and we all know how often Media likes to remind us of that. Still to this day they keep pushing that into our faces in a recent The Guardian article: Since it is only widely used as a currency in drug deals or for ransom payments, there is either a huge boom in criminal activities outside the world of cryptocurrencies, or one within unregulated exchanges where these tokens are traded. Many of us understood that the underlying tech is still valid and has a lot more to offer than just this even if it enabled it.

The same way I view Steem lately and what the hardfork has enabled, although right now it looks bad with the vote selling services, if we all started using them or more people started offering them while undercutting eachother - we will probably reach an equilibrium that will also make that fair and less profitable for the few that currently use it and enable it. There is not really a way around it, non-linear curve would make things less fair again and minnows would probably not even see any rewards at all for a long time like we witnessed happening in the past.

There's also been some discussion popping up again, I think it was @ats-david mentioning the diminishing returns we once used to have on posts. If you post more than 4 within 24 hours it will cause the next ones to reward you a smaller percentage of the post rewards it receives - the rest going back to the pool. "But then people would just post on alt accounts and vote on them" would be the logical abuse/solution to the diminishing returns, depending from which perspective you see it. I think that increasing the amount of votes you have to cast daily would help with this combined with the diminishing returns. I've seen a handful of people lately post 8-10 posts per day and ride those autovotes to profits while constantly being powered down and it sure doesn't feel right nor fair to the rest of the users. Especially those being cheated off rewards that are here to witness the long term of the platform, and even worse seeing how those "abusers" use vote selling services which cause rewards to become even lower to those that don't buy votes.

We have to remember that the platform is still very young, some other currencies are struggling to switch algorithms from proof-of-work to proof-of-stake and hoping to reach and increased transaction output, while others are still trying to come up with solutions to scaling their blockchain and causing a big rift in communities supporting them.

It is important for us to stick together as a community and think of the best solutions forward and how it will be most fair for everyone and the people yet to join us. MSP recently announced a vote bidding bot so I suggest all minnows to check it out if you need assistance with visibility. OCD will still function as usual and I decided to buy some more delegation to help me with supporting it and the newcomers the awesome curation team behind it nominates. I really hope that a good chunk of the community will also support the non-profit OCD-bot that will vote on a wide variety of authors we have chosen even though they could probably earn more by selling their votes instead of settling for the curation rewards.

There are more and more services popping up due to linear rewards, even though many are focusing on vote selling and trying to maintain a big part of the market or reward pool with it I think its only the beginning much like illegal markets and gambling were for Bitcoin at the start. I am looking forward to the ideas yet to come and spring to life and the doors SMT's will open for our blockchain.

I'm going to try and not be as negatively oriented towards vote selling in the future, although I may not use them myself (even though I was going to do that today just to prove a point of what it would look like if I used all of them at once) I will accept that they are a part of us now and instead keep doing my thing of curating without getting paid for it by other means than curation rewards.

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The solution lies in handing out rewards for those who flag spam posts and spam comments. Then we would see bots flagging bots.

interesting -
OR ...would it be possible to limit any bot activity relative to reputaion? ( ie only available on reputations under 35)
That would keep them all one place....I dunno, just throwing things out there, in the hope it sparks possibilities with people far more techy know how than me..

(like i said elsewhere - my techy talent is less than an amoeba - that's never been to school.)

a grim bladerunner future

I hope this platform is social-centred and not money centred. A minnow myself and I see here many accounts existing solely for selling upvotes in return for SBD irrespective of the post.

If it's just to be social centered there's no reason for any money to be involved. But that's not how or why steemit was created. Steemit IS money centered, that's the point of being social on steemit at all.

It shouldn't be "more" money focused than social imo, or we might as well just call it the Steem developers/commerce union bullet board.

Not entirely about the money but Yes money is a bonus and I agree. I believe the devs will soon figure out what's best for all of us and the platform :)

Steemit should have a quality rating system with no rewards. Keep the upvotes for money. That would allow users to judge each other on the quality of the posts instead of only the amount of money. Quality would bring followers and vice versa.

I agree. I see many posts here that are just trash with a tonne of shout-outs and ads at the bottom about communities people are in, but the content is garbage, with upvotes and 140$ in cash.

ah, I have been looking into vote buying and have tried it a few times. I spent around 4 SBD and gained around $7 on a post. If SBD wasn't exploding right now, that would be pretty effective.

I think the problem is those that use it on posts that are just a picture or a video with no attempt at ANY type of original thought or content.

I think it would be nice to have a bot that had certain requirements. Maybe requiring a certain Steem level. 35+? Since that seems to be really easy to get. On top of that, including a blacklist on these bidbots. I have seen a lot of people constantly getting these up votes that have absolutely no benefit to there post. They could easily be blacklisted and since they can't just make another Alt and use it right away, I feel it makes it at least a hassle for them to use instead of how easy it is to use now.

Just my thoughts.

If SBD wasn't exploding right now, that would be pretty effective.

If SBD would stay like this for a while (like it did for some time way back when Steem was pumping) I think it will make most vote selling services that rely on SBD not be able to function cause users will just sell the SBD instead.

Yeah, I have stopped 100%ing my posts to get some extra SBD. I didn't know SBD pumped like this during random pumps.

The only only way to stop explotation from vote bots (imo) is to check the posts manually. Which still is doable right now with the userbase, but still costs somewhat of an effort.
Getting a rep 50+ ain't that hard, especially if you can invest some money.

I see vote bots just as a way to promote myself and (make a slight bit of money) for now, but in all honesty it's just a symptom of a much bigger problem.
Can't wait for the SMTs to arrive either, curious what it will bring, what kind of communities it will shape. Don't get me wrong, I love Steemit and its opportunities, but sometimes this whole resemblance it has to the real world just turns me off... (even though I am a part of it ^.^)

Good points, I keep reminding myself that the platform is young and developing. I'm optimistic about Steemit for the next 4-6 months, we'll see how the team rolls out a few of these announcements.

OCD and Curie are some of the few projects that are operating organically. Less Steem/SBD outflow from the Steemit ecosystem is better right now but it seems that many users want to extract value. I'm sure they have reasons that vary but I sometimes wonder if the platform incentives users to invest and stay for long times well enough.

I think the platform could greatly benefit from more iniatives to spend your Steem by "burning" it. Like the promotion tab, or spending it for commodities/services. With that being said, the promotion tab seems kinda bad right now the way its implemented...

Yes, I completely agree with you on that point. The company could convince users to spend on promotional items better, which would help spread the word.

There are a few other ideas along these lines that I am writing about and will be publishing on the platform soon. I like your thinking!

I think @noisy mentioned the idea of placing posts that have been promoted randomly in the hot/trending section such as ads and giving them more visibility.

There's definitely a need for improved curation and display on the Steemit platform. I use it primarily on a laptop browser, so my experience may be different than many users.

That's actually something I've been thinking about. But a bit more radical ^^ Something like; Whenever someone promotes its post, instead of the promoted tab, it gets like 10x (or whatever feels reasonable) the value of trending/hot page value.

Absoulately @mdf-365 Thats a great comments i am happy for your good comments seeing...Keep it up @mdf-365

All this tech stuff,and crypto is not common knowledge.
We have a lot of turn over(deadfish) that found it to confusing or were disappointed that they did not make the big bucks,and a lot of other issues.
I personally would rather stick with it,see what it becomes,and make a penny-dollar fiffty... lol..
It is still beta and I can't wait to see it mature.long for the day I can get a tutorial that explains it all,w/ guides for non tech. I know there are some ,but nothing that is complete...nothing "official" here is how.
No easy answer,But the rich buy more power is not a thing I like to see,or help,yet would love to know more about the bots and things helping minnows.
Make it so whales can't abuse...
Way over my head in tech,no voice because just a minnow,with no real skills..lol...just trying to help build a better world.
Namaste!

I'm new here (about five weeks?) and have no idea how it all works ;)

Sticking with it for now but it needs to be a lot more newby-friendly before we can get a mass-market going...

Be happy w/ the community,try and engage in topics you knowledgeable about or passionate about.Do not focus on the $,sure way to be disappointed...
If you are tech savvy you have a good chance of making $ using bots...we seem to have a kind of class warfare going on...the techs/$$ vs the common average person.
See how it goes here, maybe greed is good will loose this time..
;-)
Namaste!

Yeah, I am not very tech savvy unfortunately. I'll just keep posting my stuff and see how things turn out :)

I hear you on not being tech savvy, I make more on comments than post...
;-)

Normally to take advantage of this beautiful platform you have to focus more on good content so that everyone benefits in every way and not only to earn money, other than that I can say that I appreciated your point of view regarding the sale of upvotes and I wish you a good continuation and more success on this website.

We need to go back, Marty.
(to 50/50 author/curators post rewards)
Full argument ~here~

Yeah, I can see the vote bot problem is a bit out of hand, but there's not much you can do about it currently. I've cut back a lot on using them because I don't really agree with most of them. The only one I've been using still is minnowbooster, and that's only in hopes to help promote my posts and maybe grab a few peoples attention so I can find some loyal followers who enjoy what I post. I think just accepting it and focusing on rewarding content which you enjoy is the best thing to do, man.

I never use bots. I write for the pleasure of writing and the good of mankind. Yes, I sometimes vote for my own post, or comment, but bots are an annoying no-no.

Well sir the topic on which you had written here is a big issue and does it is not possible to stop this vote selling, it causes a big harm to this platform. Not only that but also stop new users to join the platform because I never look into it and they see what happening here it automatically demotivate. Everytime individual how to make their content best but most of the time not get response on it. All I do appreciate your project that you had started and me it will send that contribute to the Welfare of this platform.

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