The Witness Engagement League!

revisesociology (73) 6 years ago

Actually maybe you do need to rejig the calculations - I just read (this post)[https://steemit.com/news/@ura-soul/steem-ocean-inspires-adamkokesh-to-self-upvote-less-and-to-distribute-his-0-5-million-steem-delegation-more-widely-or-steem] by @ura-soul about how he persuaded Adam Kokesh to stop self-upvoting so much, and yet he gets a score of -5000 above.

I mean I know you say the scores don't measure everything, but it just doesn't seem right that someone can achieve something like that and then end up in the conference league!

Again, unless I'm missing something. I may have to make that phrase part of my strap-line...

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knircky (73) 6 years ago

Hey man,

wow this is a cool way to look at witnesses. Super happy to see steem-bounty be in the top 10! BTW this witness is run by "@knircky" and "@famunger"

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

Thank you! :D

I run the same report each week for 300 Steemians in the opt-in league and thought I wonder what it looks like for Witnesses.

I will update the report to include both your names shortly - thanks for the information and support!

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steem-bounty (72) 6 years ago

Thank you very much! (and I can confirm the @knircky and @famunger accounts here as well.

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jmhb85 (59) 6 years ago

I am ready with my vote for you

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sircork (64) 6 years ago

Those are not actually their witnesses, if I am not mistaken. They are a team who run a witness called @steem-bounty . I am pretty sure the above votes on your screen shot are going to no witness right now. The system lets you put in any name, which is a bug it should not allow. You should only be able to vote for accounts operating a functional witness node. In this case, not the two guys themselves, but their team witness account @steem-bounty.

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munazza (54) 6 years ago

I like your hard work about witnesses.I think you should be on top because what i am seeing is you have given replies to others comments which very few people does :)

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

Thank you :)

I do see engagement as an important part of everyone's Steem experience and so I'm happy to be right up there with the 'bot respondents' :)

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funkit (60) 6 years ago

Well. I don't consider other channels like discord important. Neither other channels like Facebook or YouTube. I look up on it like a diversion for those who get paid to get THIS channel working. I find their fascination for (centralized) to be a reason to unvote.

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

I take your point, but do think there is value in both supporting people in discord, and 'shilling' STEEM out to the masses on the other social networks.

Engagement with a goal to retain users should also be pretty high on the list though too. Cheers!

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funkit (60) 6 years ago

Shilling is not in my vocabulary😇

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

ha!

It wasn't in mine until timcliff made it so :D

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teamsteem (74) 6 years ago

The info has some value but the score is easy to game and not very meaningful. I could probably get to the top of the list with voting 0.1% on as much unique authors as possible. At least that's what Good-Karma's stats seems to show.

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

I'll be watching your game @teamsteem!

The data does require some knowledge of these accounts I think. Many witnesses should be aware that for example, good-karma votes for the first post/comment created each day by a user of the eSteem app, and steemitboard gives out many comments each day automatically.

This is why I picked the comments > 2 deep in a thread as an example of true engagement.

I agree though, numbers can be gamed and presented with a slant to alter how they look.

Worth a shot though I think.

Good to see you really getting stuck into Dlive, seems that you are having a great time!

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guiltyparties (70) 6 years ago

Oh man I was looking for myself in that table but didn't think I'd be that high up. Definitely seeing gaps in what I'm doing, particularly the range of curation. Will endeavor to do better.

I bet some will say well the effort is elsewhere: github, youtube, chats, etc but at the end of the day, we have to be users of the platform we process for. That's all there is.

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

Hey there!

Thanks for dropping by, I hope you found the data of some use 😊

There is certainly much more with regards to engagement than what is presented here, worth a shot though I guess. Cheers!

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crimsonclad (66) 6 years ago (edited)

I think, as with anything, this is one facet that needs to be calculated and cut in polishing a gem. I'm not 100% sure why we're not included on there as a team (I commented all of five times last week is likely part of it), but I can also say with some pretty serious certainty that we'd likely score very low; managing the communities we do alongside Steem.Chat, coupled with the intense pressure in the top twenty to produce the best tools, the biggest voting spread contributions, help for as many users as possible, and generally a wide spread of things depending solely on which person you ask when the moon is in any specific phase... it's all stacked against minnow witnesses at ANY ranking. I personally (and Jeff also) have really sacrificed our posting, which is pretty logical given the other requirements and rewards that come with the position. A lot of the time I can sneak out to vote the work I love, but not much more than that unless it really strikes me and I have a brief moment of quiet. I know this is held against us in many ways, which is fair, but hard, as behind the scenes there are a lot of us who basically live this chain.

I always do appreciate these jumping off points for conversation though, because as always becomes apparent from the comments, everyone has wildly different interpretations of the same data — which is the whole point of collecting and presenting it.

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

Hey :)

Thanks a lot for your input - Mr Cork did point out your absence, and looking at your interactions I cant work out why - so the first thing is to check the code again.

I am aware, although not possibly to the extent, that folks like yourself are heavily involved with Steemit, and 'living this chain', and just not having the hours in the day to add to the blocks being written.

I've really tried to list the caveats (and feel free to add your own as they will appear every week) that make this data pull so open to interpretation. It's just not quantifiable what you, and many others do behind the scenes here.

Your feedback is appreciated, and I shall work on all the feedback given for the next time.

Again, from developers to the mods and managers burning the candle on discord, this is just a tiny porthole view into the work being done.

Thank you :D

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crimsonclad (66) 6 years ago

It's one of those things I feel keenly as a creative myself; I look at what I was able to do as I got started on the platform, and what I do now — and the shift as it's evolved with witnessing and community work. I think you're not wrong at all, on a lot of levels. Does my witness rank look as good when compared to say, my reputation, or my account worth? (I've never powered down, and the witness under Jeff's account powers down to pay server and development bills/my account, which is something we should have thought of, but derp, live and learn). If people new to the platform can't easily find witness info, then no, it probably doesn't, and that's an opportunity to improve on, and a whole other kettle of fish entirely when it comes to the fact that I'm still a minnow trying to hustle here like everyone else.

I look at accounts like yours, which balance original posts with something like a formulaic, weekly series (this is not knocking the data work behind them) and wonder if I should be striving to produce something like that to help me pump some of these numbers up. Able to be counted on for value but produced more easily (and again, this sounds offensive, but I swear it isn't) than something like say original art and photography or longform essays. For me personally, I don't have something I can highlight or provide in that way that would be valuable, so it's not a trade off worth it to others enough for it to be worth it to me. But I'm keenly aware that there are many people who have no idea I'm likely the first female witness/one of the first publicized partnerships/a witness at all/anyone who does anything of import, and I think that speaks to having to do a better job according to ALL metrics, and not just the ones I've fallen into that I personally find valuable and comfortable. This is where analyses like yours really underscore where I'm failing in some ways. Anything I want people to know here, I have to prove with actions that are traceable, or by promoting myself. Without either of those, I don't get to tell other people what they should think about me or my work.

(hahah, on the plus side, this is two comments deep for next week, LMAO)

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3 votes

abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

Awesome text above! :D

You hit on many points, in not very many paragraphs - just two monsters, and I've re-read this 3/4 times now to try and pick out the areas to respond!

As much as I value discord and DM chat to help and solve those issues you need instant responses for, to build a community and friendships, in my honest opinion, they also sidetrack people who can potentially 'waste' time in a virtual room.

Before the whole of discord shits on me for saying that.... In 2004 I found internet video chat rooms, got quickly involved, got a server up (at over $1000 a month due to the hefty BW of streaming 100's of cams to 100's of people), and moderated/hung out there pretty much solidly for 6/7 years. So much time spent there helping people out with life issues, keeping the room free of idiots (that's a lot of camera checking!), and meetings regarding what do do next to keep the place fun.

When I found out about discord, I reluctantly went to the MSP first. I really didn't want to, it is a huge case of 'been there done that'. Being drawn away from the financial value areas, is not what I seek in my 40th year. And so, when I think about room moderators and greeters and all these roles, there is a part of me that wants to pull them out of discord, and get them writing comments and posts here - here is where everyone has the potential to see you, this is where we can reward you directly :)

dtube/utopian/dlive/sndbox - they got the SP - so it makes sense to take a look at where you can contribute there. Hence my analyses and snorkeling videos :) You can be the best server admin in the world, but A) we cant see that and B) 99% of people here don't care so much for that :)

This is a waffle for me, i'm usually much more direct...

Honestly, I think you could be served better (as far as rep and cash) with a shift in focus. But If you find the value and comfort in what you are doing, then that's where you should be :)

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sircork (64) 6 years ago (edited)

In a separate comment, I listed you guys and many others thought/or known to be teams like curie, ocd,adsactly, etc, which in each case might be operated by a single person, but are labelled as community (thus team in some senses) witnesses.

As for being busy 100% of the time? Amen. You are. Many of us are.

I also feel like the discord work in what was rightfully called "counseling sessions" in the OP, which we have both done in the past year (like many others like us) is sometimes the only thing keeping ANYBODY here anymore.

Hell, in some cases in there, we do the real work on the social/cultural environment that cannot be done here on the chain at large. I personally know, we have both faced suicidal people, self harming people, sociopaths, newbies with endless questions, spammers, stalkers, bitchers, ragers and quitters. We counsel, teach, advise, educate, reform, resolve, redirect, and reengage users every single day out there in the 'cords.

It's some of the most vital work that gets done here, if you ask me. I'm sure high profile leaders and witnesses who spend any time in there at all will have to agree. The platform has no cohesion without the steem.chat and discord real time interaction and relationships formed in communities.

You can tell from comments who spends time in the chat rooms and who doesn't. Usually by what they think they know about the place, or when they actually dismiss those places as unimportant while simultaneously bitching about having no followers or visibility.

You do a ton. FollowBTCnews does too. Luckily for US, in all three cases, we ARE engaged, AND doing the work of building nodes, tools, and software and sites in your case, and charities and streaming network and empowering people and voices with them, while my peers Rhonda and Beanz do similar work in their own communities, The Writers Block, SteemShelves and Steem House and Voices of the Underground, in our case.

We not only engage, but you and FBTCN and us three, build reasons to engage and methods to be engaged with others, and our community presences? Wear us out, leave us sleepless and stressed and sometimes cause missed opportunities for ourselves.

Thats what real witnesses do, and what minnow witnesses have to do harder, though it seems underappreciated in the long run, it's still the right things to do.

right?

Please tell me we aren't wasting our time....

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sircork (64) 6 years ago (edited)

Can you post this as html tables in the future please @abh12345 ? I'd like to be able to cut and paste the data into a sheet for sorting, and such. Having it as a graphic makes it pretty unwieldy to search it for names with ctrl-f or use in a sheet for column sorting.

thanks

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

I sure can. This could well look a bit lengthy, and in the past when i've tried to list 7/8/9 columns the condenser has done me a wrong'un and chopped a few off.

Next time, top 150 active, more complete groupings of teams, html + image of list.

Cheers!

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limabeing (56) 6 years ago

Maybe you can also paste the data into a google doc and share the link?

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

Nice idea 😁 Then I can have a fat table full of columns too.

Will add it to the to-do list, thanks!

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limabeing (56) 6 years ago (edited)

Lol why do i feel like you were drooling and laughing maniacally when you wrote "fat table of columns " ??? Lol
You like big sheets and yiu can not lie?

@spicyshai and i were planning to write the gender survey btw

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

haha!

Got to be careful or this thread could go down the toilet quickly - or perhaps not, dem fat sheeets!

Gender survey cool, snap to it then! :D

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sircork (64) 6 years ago

Only if it won't break your back :D

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glenalbrethsen (68) 6 years ago

Maybe self-upvoting as a penalty should be removed with regards to strict engagement, but then, it shouldn't be counted as upvoting, because it isn't engagement either. If then, your intent is to eliminate the penalty while reducing the number of upvotes by it, sounds fine with me.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean. As it is, it's tough to even call self-upvoting helpful to curation depending on when it it is cast, and I would imagine most of it is immediate thus going all to the author.

As to the relevance and usefulness of this list.

Personally, I like the idea of at least a handful of witnesses engaging with the "little people" in meaningful and constructive ways, getting their fingers on the pulse of the community and what's going on, as opposed to just being devs locked away somewhere working on who knows and cares what but that they find horribly important and relevant by the sheer brilliance of their coding skills.

Besides, the whole term 'witness' strikes me as being a misnomer if no one is witnessing anything, but simply working on whatever the heck they think is best for the rest of humanity. Despite what it may sound like, I truly do not think about such folks if they're not brought up or deigning to grace us with their presence with a snarky comment. Out of sight, out of mind.

I only have Discord for GINAbot, so I'm not privy to all that goes on there. Nor am I sure I want to be. The three times I went into the general chat to try to get some information the conversations were immediately offputting. As far as reaching individuals on Discord for answers, I've had more luck in the comments here than I have there. Perhaps I've not been talking to the right people.

I don't use the other apps on the STEEM blockchain with any great regularity (busy every now and then), so I can't speak to the relevance of witness engagement via app development. The only very useful app I've discovered that provides info about activity on the blockchain that is user friendly, fast and nearly always working is steemworld by steemchiller, and he's not a witness.

Pulling personal information from the database like you do is very useful to me because it's just that—personal. It shows me what I'm doing. Much of what others are pulling on a daily basis in the macro is not as useful to me because there's generally little analysis of what it means beyond the obvious and in most cases there's no solutions offered or then any consensus on solutions if problems presented by the data exist. So, what am I doing or can I do with the information? Not a whole lot.

If nothing else, I like seeing the comments by the few who are witnesses who don't appear to be very comfortable with it. Makes me wonder why. If it's no big deal, why comment. If their dev work is so important, why are they taking time away to comment? Why seem to be taking it personal? If they are doing something worthwhile, who cares what others are doing, or what they say about them?

Or does that it mean it does matter? Not sure. Kind of confused now. :)

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

Well I thoroughly enjoyed reading this comment :)

Besides, the whole term 'witness' strikes me as being a misnomer if no one is witnessing anything, but simply working on whatever the heck they think is best for the rest of humanity.

When you are delivering apps of genuine quality (Vessel by @jesta), there is no mistaking where you should be. When you are customizing open source bid-bot code and claiming to be too busy to attend to the replies to your own posts, where you are encouraging open discussion (and then don't reply), well...

If their dev work is so important, why are they taking time away to comment? Why seem to be taking it personal? If they are doing something worthwhile, who cares what others are doing, or what they say about them?

Yeah. My tongue is held, until my next post perhaps.

Thanks :)

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glenalbrethsen (68) 6 years ago

Ah, man! Okay. Since you've got a "making friends and influencing people" series of posts going, I guess I can wait a little bit. :)

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fullcoverbetting (69) 6 years ago

It is good to dig up these stats! I still have 20 witness spots to fill and this will make it easier!
Thx

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abh12345 (76) 6 years ago

Cheers :)

It's only on of the angles to view how a witness is contributing - many spend their time coding, managing chat channels, etc and I wouldn't count this list as the be all and end all.

Saying that, it's a nice feeling for me to be up near the top! :D

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