Why I am vegan and the reasons I don't agree with or get along with most other vegans.

in #veganism8 years ago (edited)

Today, I posted a status that got me thinking about my own veganism and also about how, and why, I don't like a lot of other vegans.


I guess a pic of me eating fruit is suitable?

(don't worry there will be no graphic imagery in this post and I won't be calling you a jerk.)

The status was about a person that was saying how humans NEED cow's milk and how NOTHING can possibly replace the stuff in COW'S milk that we NEED to stay alive. I let people know that I literally do not care about their dairy consumption and have no desire to try to get them to stop eating cheese or putting cow's milk in their cereal but I was simply baffled by this man's logic regarding a human's need for cow's milk. Clearly, humans don't need cow's milk. We need milk from our mother's tit as an infant and when we stop drinking that milk our need for milk ceases to exist. This is how it works for us, and all other mammals. We are mammals, though we tend to forget that. So, I was just pointing out how the milk industry and all those "GOT MILK" adverts had made it so people throw logic out the window when it comes to milk.

But, I had people automatically justifying their dairy consumption.

So, I would reiterate again that I honestly, really, truly do not think they are horrible people for drinking milk but it made me realize just saying that I was vegan put people into defensive mode, it seems. Because a lot of vegans WOULD be attacking them personally for their choice to eat meat or drink milk. I DID go vegan for ethical reasons and I AM against factory farming and I do think the industry is cruel however I don't think 99% of humans in first-world countries are pieces of shit for eating meat and dairy. Though, we don't NEED milk humans have been drinking milk for about 7,500 years. That is a pretty insane figure to even try to imagine in human years but I will try to illustrate it by saying that if you take the average lifespan of about 71 and divide that by how long humans have been drinking milk you could get 105. So enough time to fill 105 human lives living to a ripe old age. That's a long fucking time, guys. So to think that me screaming in their face about how cruel I feel factory farming is will change people's mind and make them drop the consumption of something humans have been consuming for 7,500 years is pretty silly. And calling them assholes for consuming it when modern, cruel factory farms are a pretty recent development in the grand scheme is also pretty silly.

The average person does not want to or enjoy torturing an animal

Regardless of if they are blindly paying for it. It is an out of sight, out of mind sort of thing. Anyone seeing the actual footage of animals being tortured would be horribly upset. So, the person is not EVIL for simply consuming meat. Humans are omnivores. We can be healthy with a vegan diet but it takes a lot of research and supplements and honestly, eating fish is probably healthier than going fully vegan. I am a bleeding heart so I can't eat a fish without crying but I am not really that against the eating of fish as I acknowledge the difference in intellect when it comes to a many types of fish vs a pig, which is much smarter than your dog.

However, there are some highly intelligent sea creatures, such as octopus and dolphins. Dolphins are self-aware and communicate in a complex language, so I wouldn't really want people to eat those guys but I am getting side-tracked...Where was I, oh right so yeah we can be healthy and vegan if we go out of our way making sure we get all the supplements we need and nutrients but it takes effort and time and it's kind of socially alienating, and it can be expensive especially when you are first learning and also people like the way meat and dairy tastes, A LOT. They have been eating it their entire lives and humans have been eating meat for as far back as we can trace, so yeah, I am not expecting to change that by waving a peta banner at someone or by screaming at them and telling them they are the scum of the Earth for having a hamburger. I get why they are eating hamburgers and I get that it doesn't mean they want to harm animals, it just means that, in the modern world, it is really easy to get hamburgers for really cheap and they happen to usually come from really nasty, cruel farms.


doo doo doo, I am an octopus, being all neat and stuff. dee doo doo

I like having friends and I don't want my life to revolve around thinking about what makes me sad in the world.

Most other vegans want to harass other people for their eating habits, which I do not, and will NEVER do. I date people who eat meat and dairy and sit with people eating hamburgers and sit with people eating chicken wings, and I literally never try to tell them they shouldn't eat whatever they are eating. It is not my place to do so and I like not being that guy and I like keeping friendships because I treat my friends with respect and decency. I do not feel superior to them and I do not want them to feel I think I am superior. I am against a shitty industry not against all humans and not against personal freedom. Also, a lot of other vegans want to protest and sign petitions and talk about NOTHING but their veganism. Veganism is their life. They watch videos of tortured animals even after they have stopped eating them? No thanks, I would rather spend my time creating art, having varied discussions, and making awesome meals. I don't want to dwell on tortured animals all day, every day.

The moral approach is entirely futile and a waste of time and the future is already on a road toward ethical meats.

Not BECAUSE of ethics but because there's a lot of humans, and factory farming fucks up the planet and it isn't sustainable at it's current rate. So humans are already looking for ways to get meat in other ways. Such as stem-cell, lab grown, meat. It's something I follow closely and, as of now, the texture is perfected nearly but the taste is....not going to change anyone's minds. :) But in the future I have no doubt we will nail this. If people are eating non-lab meat once we perfect this it will likely be the top 1%. It'll be INCREDIBLY expensive and a luxury for those top few rich guys. Not because people will suddenly, unanimously, agree that hurting animals for food is bad but because we want to survive as a species and we will be forced to change the way we get meat in order to survive.

So, that is what I follow when I want to think about a world without factory farming. I don't go scream at a stranger for eating a burger because that is useless, rude, and will never, ever be effective. I don't try to change anyone's mind about what they are eating. I just exist and make vegan foods and try to not hurt other people's feelings by telling them they are horrible people for having their lunch. Surprisingly, I have inspired several people to go vegan, vegetarian, or just eat less meat. Without trying at all. I highly doubt people that attack others aggressively are changing anyone's mind. Actually, I take that back, they likely ARE changing a few minds. They are likely making people who were indifferent to veganism equate it with a raving lunatic who calls them a piece of shit and gets intensely emotional and angry in speaking to them. So essentially, they are going make people hate vegans and veganism.

So yeah, I could go on even longer about factory farming and the future of meat. (I think people should eat bugs. I wouldn't cause I cry when I step on one even though, logically, I know they are like tiny computers, but I really think if people got down with eating some bugs it'd be a great idea.) But I will stop here, because I have to stop somewhere? So, yeah, I have often defended an omnivore against a raving lunatic vegan and will do so again. I try to explain to other vegans that their efforts are not wasted but actually counter-productive to what they are trying to do unless they are trying to make people never, ever want to even consider going vegan or talk to a vegan. If that's their goal, spot on guys. Also, let's not get outraged over people eating different animals than we do in other countries. Often times, they even had a more humane life/slaughter than the animals here so let's just like, stop that.

I will never concern myself with what other people are eating and even though after 14 years of being vegan it smells bad I will not comment on it, I will not make people feel bad or guilty for it, and I will not try to aggressively change people's minds. How I feel about factory farming is my concern, what I eat is my concern, what other people are eating is not my business.

Photos from wikimedia commons (octopus) and pixabay, arguing modified by me.

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Yeah, I'm vegan too but definitely not an evangelist. I'm at peace with the fact that most people don't share my morals and I only concern myself with building a good environment for myself and not with changing everyone else out there. In the end, you just have to account for yourself and your actions, not those of anyone else.

Exactly. I was different 14 years ago but I was also a shitty little teenager. XD But it didn't take long for me to realize I just need to worry about myself.

@lauralemons
This is called the "no true scottsman" argument.

There are no true vegans.

It's not a thing you are, it's a set of beliefs you have and the things you do to try and express those beliefs.

When people lose sight of that, they become ideologists & zealots, instead of believers.

This is when they become the flaming radical vegan, peta, right wing, left wing whatever.

Divisiveness never works out well for anyone.

Nice job putting a good spin on the message. But do you know how many thousands of baby water melon plants had to die to make that picture? ;)
Least they weren't sea kittens though...

I don't even like to call myself vegan normally. I just say that I don't eat X and X and if someone asks about WHY I will answer but I agree when people make it their entire life/being it is unappealing.

Very nice!

Personally, I lean towards vegetablism + fruitism, but I'm really trying to focus on food combining.

As humans, we are omnivores and can survive on eating just about anything that isn't overly poisonous to us, as made clear by the fact that most people live off of packaged foods that generally have a nutritional value of something less than the nutritional value of the box it is packaged in.

Yes, we can eat other creatures flesh.
Yes, we can eat vegetables.
Yes, we can eat fruits.

But digestion takes a ton of energy... and whatever you eat, if you avoid eating things that are on opposite sides of the basic|acidic scale together, you can seriously limit require digestive energy, giving your own system more energy with which to grow stronger and take care of problems.

While we can eat just about anything... eating what we are told to eat is about as far from healthy as we can get.

I very much agree. I am not sure where you live but I am in the US and diets are definitely generally very unhealthy. I myself need to make an effort to clean up my diet more. I was doing really well in the past but lately have been relying on fake meats and stuff too much. D: So, I am working on eating cleaner again. :)

I hear that. My main problem is getting stuck in the trenches of past routine. Fortunately, I'm making some serious headway and have gone from a size 36 waist to a size 30 waist in about 2 months due to doing what I know I should be doing rather than just doing what I'm used to doing.

I have expanded recently. haha. I have an exercise bike I bought still in the box in my room. I really need to get back to my prime. XD

I do have a problem with tending to want to eat the same things over and over, I need to diversify my diet more.

Thank you for the very thorough post!
This post hits on a LOT of points that I find to be very important and talk about regularly. As I have not yet made a Steemit post about it I shall invest some time here to touch on these points.
#1 OBVIOUSLY humans do not NEED cow milk! hahahahahhahaha
I won't even go into more detail about that as anyone who actually things one needs cows milk to be healthy is so far from ready to be real its not worth even addressing!
What I would like to point out about that topic is that while it is possible other animals milk can be healthy for humans if it is to be it must be RAW un pasteurized milk. This is a major topi of importance because not only is almost all milk these days pasteurized but its actually illegal to sell unpsasturized milk..People are not even allowed to make their own choice as to if they buy raw milk or not....The implications of this are profound...How can one POSSIBLY think that America is "the land of the free"???
If one were to do research one would find that pasteurization comes from the name of a man named Louis Pasteur who was pushing the pasteurization standards. Yet you will also find that after pasteurization became standard practice he admitted that he was wrong and that RAW milk was actually FAR healthier than pasteurized milk. So thats case closed right there.
People in America are more sick and unhealthy than EVER. Despite the trillions of dollars in western medicine and all the "advanced technology" used to treat the many unhealthy manifestations of modern humans. They just continue to get weaker and more obese. Now of course this is a generalization and all generalizations have examples that defy it. I am aware of this and am aware that there are people "saved" by western medicine. This does not mean there is not alternatives and much better ways. There are.
So I could go into much more depth there and probably will write a whole post about it soon!
#2 You are right that most vegans are stuck up and judgmental. They use it as a way to feel superior to other people. Again this is a generalization and obviously as you are an example this is NOT always the case.
What I want to say to that is very simple. Is a cat wrong for eating a mouse? Is an eagle EVIL for eating a fish? Of course not. So the POINT is proven that eating meat is NOT wrong nor bad.
With that being said, if there is ANYTHING wrong it is factory farming as anyone who does research will find nothing more disgusting than the conditions animals are in due to factory/mass production farming. Totally disgusting.
So while I do not judge people for eating meat I also MUST say that to participate in such a thing KNOWING what is happening is very very far from honorable. Because every single time you but/eat that meat you are VOTING for it to continue with your funding!
So I hope people without guilt seriously consider supporting such horrific realities.
The next thing I want to point out is that a vegan who buys an organic banana is responsible for killing FAR more animals than a man who goes out into the forest and hunts and kills a rabbit.
This is a VERY important point that most people especially vegans do not even consider. Just because you are not eating an animal does not mean you are not killing them.
So for anyone who has not already connected the dots on this one let me explain: A banana at a grocery store was grown on a corporate owned farm of which was once upon a time a wild eco system. That entire plot was burned or bulldozed to the ground and then mono crops were planted. So every creature in that NATURAL ecosystem was displaced or killed.
On top of that These mono crops require pesticides to keep bugs away, herbicides to keep away any other plants and fertilizers to boost depleted soils. All these chemicals directly killing creatures as is their intended purpose on the crops but are also leaching into rivers and lakes and oceans. These chemicals are then killing far more unintended creatures.
This is only the beginning folks....These crops are then harvested using machines running on petroleum. Do you know how many animals have died because of petroleum spills? BILLIONS! These crops are then packaged in plastic (more petroleum) if you don't know the effects of petroleum do some quick research.
These crops in plastic bags are then shipped on more machines running on petroleum....They then get put on more machines running on patrolled and shipped again, and again, and again....
Then they go to a store running mass amounts of electricity created by PETROLEUM! These stores are all run by global elite mega corps and when you buy it you pay them to continue their world devastating practices.
So I could go on and on about this also....
The last point I want to make is that I don't believe in judgement. It helps not. I only want everyone to be happy and healthy. Yet I also don't pretend. I will not pretend that these things are not happening nor that they are not dishonorable. I will also not pretend that people are not participating in them when they are.
What you all do with that is up to you. I wish you all the best~
Bless~*~

Wow what an in depth response. I actually respect the type of people that hunt and then eat just that animal. They are doing so much less harm than the average American in doing so. I even once dated a guy who did this. I did tell him I wouldn't want to like see the corpse but I didn't try to change him or tell him he's a bad person.

Also, I recently found out about many different things that cause so much harm that I was unaware of, one is quinoa, and one is coconut oil. Quinoa I found out, I forget where now, is harvested mainly from some third-world country where people were relying on this food to survive and now they are harvesting it and sending it to us, in America, where we have access to tons of food with nutrients and do no NEED quinoa to survive. Also apparently primates are being chained up and trained to harvest coconuts. >_<

It is literally impossible to live in society and shop at regular stores and not somehow inflict damage/cause suffering and it WILL drive you crazy to try to eliminate it all. I know, I have tried. This is a big part of why I don't judge others. The computer I am using likely caused INCREDIBLE suffering to some poor kid in another country. Same with phones. There is actually a documentary called "No Impact Man" that I think illustrates this perfectly. So, while I feel personally better not eating animals I know I am still causing suffering to other beings just by living in society and spending my money on items. I would need to entirely leave society and live off the grid and grow all my own food to not make some negative impact....

So yeah, we all have our own ideals and set of moral standards and different areas that we may be super passionate about but ripping someone apart for feeling differently than you does no good whatsoever.

Yes~
Of course attacking someone is no way to bring about a happier world. Yet at the same time settling for and participating in standards we KNOW to be dishonorable or unsustainable is not either.
That is why I founded @gardenofeden it is one of the most sustainable communities in the world now. Yet I would not have found it if I were not aware of the atrocity of humanities footprint and a desire to not be a part of it.
I hope you check out some of my posts to give you an idea of what I have achieved, why and how. There is much of great value for anyone who cares about living consciously.
Wish you the best and I will keep tuning to what you are sharing here.
Blessings~*~

Following and will go check out the posts later. :)

Great!
I hope to be able to provide content you find valuable and help improve your ever improving life!
I look forward to your feedback and participation!
Bless~*~

Oh wow, neat I will definitely look into it. And I agree that something should be done. I don't like contributing to these things I just feel helpless. I will definitely be checking out your posts now.

I legit don't care about what other people eat, as the entire post illustrates. But I am glad you are happy. I am also happy with my food. :)

sidenote, though fake meat tasted nasty to me initially after 14 years my tastebuds forgot everything they knew and now they taste great. So I am all into the fake meats, which many other vegans complain about. Because they even want to complain about what other vegans eat because it resembles meat. -_- Lawl, vegans, amirite?

Hell I would rather be dead than vegan, I love meat but that doesn't mean that sometimes specifical kinds of meats disgust me.

I also believe such big farms are a bad thing and I hate them, in my opinion if local farming and incentives for people to start growing animals again would be great and are the solution for this bullshit.

At this point though, it wouldn't even be possible to have only small farms because of how many people there are and how much meat we consume. We eat waaaay more meat than necessary on average. This is why I feel lab meat is the future.

Well if people stops growing up in cities and start going inner country and renovating old houses, creating new ones etc. I've seen in a bunch of countries people still has pigs and chickens n shits at home (if they live on the country) and I can tell you that a bunch of animals can provide more than you can consume of a specifical material, takes a bit of time indeed but could also create a good bunch of jobs like farmers that move from house to house and do shit for an hour or two a day (just developed a bit my paranoia lol).
If you think about it, the more central (to the city) you are the more expensive the m2 gets (which you may not even owe if you live in an apartment). Yes there is a limited amount of land if we just expand like that but going underground or something shall fix that.
Eitherway sorry for deviating so much, what I'm trying to say is that autosuficiency would be possible somehow but a lot would need to get done, few chickens rabbits and pigs that reproduce, maybe a cow if they can, and of course green stuff, with a bit more of land avaible it would be better since you could cultivate the food for them. I'm getting a lot of strange ideas that would make no sense to mention but if we really wanted to do it we could perfectly, we have the tech.

Emissions from farming are also a huge issue that can't be ignored. I personally do not think it would be possible to farm the old way on this scale but it's a very complicated subject. I also know it simply will not happen because it would not be efficient or profitable. I like to focus on the lab meat because many top minds are studying it and many scientists are saying it is the future of meat.

Now, if people were willing to eat less meat, then farming may be able to change greatly but we eat (we, as in, Americans because that's all I have personally studied and is where I reside) A LOT of meat.

It doesn't matter to me what people eat as long as you are happy and healthy. What I do know is we waste so much food and have so many hungry that it is mind boggling.

That really upsets me. Add in the factor that a lot of the food being thrown away is the corpses of sentient beings and ugh. Killing for food is one thing but killing WAY too many and then just throwing it away. Throwing away so much food at all when people need it. Maybe I could write a post about that stuff. I, admittedly, try to not think about it too often as it's pretty depressing.

I know someone who works at a supermarket and they are not allowed to give any food to the homeless shelter so it is thrown out. Very sad.

Thank you. That needed to be said.

I really dislike how many vegans treat other people. And due to their shitty actions people automatically attack me if they find out I am vegan. So, thanks to other vegans being complete assholes I get shit on and I don't even CARE what people eat. XD lol

its sad but they really do. I know just as many friendly vegans though.

That's good. Most people I talk to say they meet way more asshole vegans.

Interesting take as usual, Lauralemons. I am not a vegan, but have a friend who told me about fruitarian thought, the Jesus diet and its correlation to the book of the Essenes. Ever hear of thise theories?

Thank you and can't say I have @tee-em. :> (I have heard of fruititarian diet but just briefly and am unfamiliar with the rest of what you mentioned)

The lost book of the Essenes mentions a closer spirituality with God by becoming a vegetarian/fruitarian. Some call it the Jesus diet.

Ah, I am an atheist so probably would not be too keen on that one. :)

I have a few "friends" that are the vegans that you speak of, I just laugh in their face and gnaw on a rib bone! lol
Let and let live I say, can't we all just get along!

I lived with the opposite and aggressive omnivore who constantly attacked my veganism and mocked me when I literally never, ever mentioned his diet. And he ate like bacon wrapped chicken with cheese on top and shit. I just like, really don't care to argue about people's food. LOL

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