a rationale for suicide?
Caution: The following will contain sensitive material, you may not want to read further, and is related to my experiences when in darkness. You have been warned.
So I have come across a possible explanation for by which an individual may feel inclined to kill themselves, using a behavioural approach that can be applicable to game design.
In order to present argument the view of life itself is illustrated as a game, in which draws parallels to Skinner’s rat experiments. A brief overview in that when placed in a cage and given the opportunity to press a lever signalling for a food pellet, the rat is likely to repeatedly press the lever due to the dopamine influx and partial sense of satiation provided. Hence why those with depression prevalently have a lower influx of serotonin uptake across neurones comparatively to a ‘normal’ individual.
Now I realise this is to be expected as if this was the case then perhaps a determined purpose would be more depressing due to a negation of free will (which in my view is slightly an illusion). I mean what would be the point of being an automaton merely acting out a collection of subconscious frameworks?
And so comes to my search for a genuine subjective meaning or purpose to why I should live one more day. Honestly I have yet to find one, and even when I believe a threshold in which ‘finally I have found it’ (what is ‘it’ anyway) has been reached, sooner or later the realisation arrives that what I thought I wanted was not fulfilling. What I do find though is that writing these thoughts helps to condense my focus.
Another aspect of me that I despise is that I am never or rarely satisfied with any material/life milestones; always searching for something more, while not being happy. I know this is due to the fact I must have serious depression that has been persistent within me now for a few years. Linking this to the behavioural perception ‘if a reward is a long way off, motivation is low’; applied to me: if the reward (purpose/happiness??) is a long way off, motivation therefore willingness to live is low.
This leads me to the repetitive unsolved problem to my lack of meaning or purpose, turning to a lack of purpose to live at all. And every day that progresses although the grave is one step closer it never appears close enough (especially at my young age). The only hope that I maintain is in trying to find that purpose, however I don’t think I can last forever like this. Writing such articles is somewhat cathartic and extends a willingness to live a little longer.
Some of my additional foundation for suicidal ideation or attempts is when focusing on the complete immorality that appears present to the human condition: of me and apparently everyone else, engineered by broad systems of control. (i.e. slaughter of animals daily), death, destruction (always ongoing) and subtle slavery (fiat currency, a lever as mentioned earlier) enforced by governments or anybody when power persists. That this appears ingrained to the human condition (and myself probably if placed in a situation of extreme survival) almost allures me to die.
That said, as this topic has been my primary source of focus, yes I have come across some apparently obvious solutions. Such as: positive thinking/mindset, your thoughts create your own reality, existential thoughts are caused by a lack of responsibility, happiness is purely internal, the illusion of the self therefore no need to dwell on negative thoughts. However, all of this seems to not be worthwhile an explanation for what I’m feeling. I may allude later to what my individual ‘cornerstone(s)’ (i.e. personality kinda) are, as these are blocking me from feeling happy; what I find difficult is that if my cornerstone is radically altered I would lose any sense of self.
Anyway, this is simply an insight to the thoughts of my mind. I may edit/delete this at some point.
Source used: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131494/behavioral_game_design.php
It's brave and admirable that you are willing to share so much so openly on such a sensitive topic. What I would say is that our rational mind is not directly connected to our emotions and it's not really that easy to control your emotions by choice. They are simply a more primitive shortcut that allows us to have an attitude towards the world instantly and without having to resort to deliberation. Of course, as anything in our bodies and minds, all of that circuitry is prone to malfunctioning in one way or another and leading to undesirable or unpleasant results.
Many of us (myself included) are often easily tempted in giving just-think-positively advice to people suffering depression or who are suicidal as if it were possible that such a thing never occurred to the person in question and as it were possible that mere positive thinking could be a viable solution for everyone. Unfortunately, it isn't.
My honest advice for anybody experiencing suicidal thoughts or depression on regular basis would be to seek professional help. The fact that you are open to sharing is a great step and an important one, now maybe you should consider sharing with somebody that has dedicated their life to dealing with this types of feelings in others who would have a much deeper insight into how you should approach this.
As far as purpose goes, I personally found it liberating to realize that it's all purposeless and there is no intrinsic purpose to anything, because this means that everything is a blank and I get to choose whatever purpose I see fitting. And looking into it from the game theory perspective, the longer you live, the higher the chances for you to discover a fulfilling purpose, so putting off death as much as possible qualifies as purposeful and prudent behavior, doesn't it?
Hi @rocking-dave,
I wouldn't say that the rational mind is separate from emotions, as these emotions guide feeling and action. I agree that such emotions are not entirely voluntary (which is depressing).
I have tried positive thinking mindset, sure it works in the short term however isn't really a solution to the root causes to why I feel this way. When thinking about professional help, I just can't see what they can do that would address these causes. What do you find that provides you fulfillment? The search for purpose seems almost like an ever increasing puzzle of complexity :(
It doesn't trouble me that there is no objective/intrinsic purpose (this would make us more deterministic), just that I have yet to find any subjective meaning that is satisfactory to live. A longer amount of time to find this purpose does grant higher probability to find it, but I'm not sure qualifies as purposeful in itself? (somewhat of a meta purpose?).
Still trying to figure this out
Well that's what I mean by separate. Rational thoughts and reasons can't control them as they are more basic.
Well, that's the thing with professionals in all kinds of fields, if you are not one, it's hard to imagine how they can go about doing their job. That's why they are professionals - they have highly specialized knowledge and skills that most of us don't. I have no doubt that an experienced professional in this area would have significant experience in helping people tackling this exact type of issue. Of course, I can't vouch for everybody, but it usually doesn't hurt to try and there are realistic chances that it might be of some use.
That is indeed an interesting question. Generally speaking I've found that I feel best when I'm dealing with something challenging. I like the feeling that I'm doing something productive, that I'm learning new things and that I'm not wasting my time. Keeping busy with an ambitious project is the thing that seems to be the most fulfilling and allows me to stay positive. In a sense, happiness, content or fulfillment seem to be things that come while you are not looking and seem to go away when you start digging for them on the inside. When you are concentrated on living, they creep in while you are not looking. So my personal answer that fits my own personal inner world is simply to keep busy.
Another thing that also helps is when you feel that some of the things you do are for others. I used to be a teacher for some time and this was quite rewarding. Unfortunately, it didn't offer sufficient income so I moved on to other things. But I remember that feeling that I'm doing something for others like helping them learn something new made me feel good about myself and my life.
The thing is, at least in my case, that nagging feeling to find a specific purpose or a specific answer just started subsiding with time. So it didn't grow harder, it grew easier as I learned that purpose doesn't need to be big and grand, it can actually be tiny and even mundane. It's perfectly OK to find purpose in the small things and you don't need to answer huge questions when doing so. Allowing yourself to feel joy is purpose enough in my book too.
I would use choose instead of find. If purpose is not a real and objective thing, you can't find it, you can only choose to accept or create it for yourself. I personally find this realization to be quite liberating, inspiring and motivating.
Yep, but why wouldn't a meta purpose work? There is even a grain of objectivity here if you think about it. You obviously have a need for a purpose and living creatures have a somewhat objective purpose to satisfy their own needs. Satisfying your own needs is something that is very easy to assume is part of what your purpose is on the most basic level. So looking for that purpose is an activity that is purposeful in the attempt to satisfy that need. It's a bit circular as anything self-referential, but I do think it actually makes a lot sense.
Hmm, I can appreciate your answers, feeling like something is being achieved or a challenging situation is at least attempted to be resolved, is something I share. I always evaluate if what I'm doing is really worthwhile though and not just doing something for the sake of it.
A partial explanation may be that individuals appear to like closure to a situation, for example not replying to your comment would leave a sense of unease since you have taken the time to do so. A lack of closure and not foreseeing an answer is what leaves me uneasy.
I need to in a sense choose a meaningful enough purpose before I accept it, I concede to your last paragraph as a metachoice :)
This type of things seem to satisfy another need, not just closure. We also have a need for achievement which I think is an important component of feeling what we are doing is worthwhile. Having a list of goals and being able to cross some out as done boosts that I personally find it to be a pleasant component of feeling purposeful. After all goals are short-term purposes and if most of your goals point in a specific direction, they are indeed stepping stones to a larger purpose.
On the grand ideological side instead of the practical side, I see two main purposes for my existence that I have chosen for myself - one is experiencing pleasure which includes everything from interacting with my loved ones and looking at sunsets to watching movies and playing computer games; the second one is self-improvement - I want to be a better person today than I was yesterday and this includes both acting better towards others in the moral and altruistic sense and being more knowledgeable, skillful and even successful. On some days I concentrate on the first one and on others I concentrate on the second one. On some days I feel I fail at both. But I'm happy to be on this journey
I guess, most of what I'm saying here is actually a bunch of verbose cliches, but they do work for me and I have indeed vested them with meaning from my own point of view.
Cheers, mate! :)
Hello friend! Dread not for there is a purpose in the life of every creature. It is not some devine purpose, but it is important none the less.
Experience
That is the purpose of our simple existence. To experience and learn everything we can about the world we live in. It is something ingrained deeply in all of us.
Cutting yourself makes you feel better because of the experience you gain out of feeling the pain. Next time you feel down go out and experience something new. A walk through the woods or even just a new tv show. Anything you can think of really, but if you exist releatedly experiencing the same things over and over (boredom) it is bound to negativly effect your mind.
Its not your time to experience death yet, so go and learn something new.
Hello @alex-draw,
What I have tried to describe in the post is that, yes everyone has their flavor (or I assume) that motivates them through life; I just have yet to find one that is fulfilling. My experience is that instead of dread , bereavement caused by hopelessness is what is terrifying. Although this causes dread personally, a fear that I will never find meaning.
Looking at this as a broader question, that does cause me dread however, is why? Why do I search for purpose and what is the underlying mechanism behind it? Is the search my own choosing , a type of avolition, or am I a puppet of the amygdala? Perhaps the sense of experience as you wrote is in control of this.
Cutting does make things better temporarily, however can act as a spiral, especially when I know that I have done it before and could do so again. So you cut, you feel temporary satisfaction, you question and hate yourself for doing it, causing a repetition(s).
At the moment the feeling is permanently down, so I can't say that anything is helping, although I can't say that boredom influences it.
And the grooves of negative feeling and behavior continues. It's sad isn't it?
bro if you aint found your flavour , try getting fit and having sex with hot women, cocaine what ever the fuck you want, i guarentee you will feel better , lifes worth living man, at the end of the day bro we never die cos were eternal, you cant be concious of being unconcious , wana feel better kno God is the cosmos and your thouhgts/ frequencys relate to what the cosmos will give you, so when you think like shit and have no purpose thats what you will get, when you think positive and happy more will come cos your on that plane of existance, bro dmt will open you up and cure anything you have hey give it a try :)
this is wise advice.
Live today.
stop thinking.
Cheers :)
you might like my 'unexpected' stories. ( 3 chapter posted so far) You might. might not . lol
agree with you.
Hello friend! Dread not for there is a purpose in the life of every creature. It is not some devine purpose, but it is important none the less.
Hello @outtayourbox, there's an amount of good and wise advice that could be given but I feel that in this case it is completely useless. I know how it feels to be like an empty shell. When I feel like that, it's not the fucking "positive thinking" what helps me for sure. I don't like the two words taken singularly, imagine having them in the same sentence.
Hi again! I know the feeling, almost like anesthetized pain which can't be placed.
Yeah positive thinking doesn't work for me, I find having a schedule/things to do I actually like helps.
I feel your reply very much @outtayourbox, I was worried I have been too heavy in my comment but you understood me. Mine is not even a pain but an existential absence.. is there something behind these feelings that I learnt to show and use as masks? "Positive thinking" usually depresses me hahah. The schedule is a very good solution in my opinion.. and try to forget your ego, I know it's not easy at all as much as it's not easy to shut down the flow of the thoughts.
No it wasn't heavy at all I can relate to what your saying.
I would say to try to remove the masks if they are not being true to a 'genuine self' (I say in quotes as this is difficult to pinpoint exactly); despite the external conditions you are in.
Forgetting the ego is similar to a labyrinth, you think 'oh I have done enough X [meditation/focusing on the present] to remove the ego for a moment', but what if that thought is the ego telling you that? (there probably are layers of ego)
To your reply I would just add that to remove a masks first you need to recognize that you are wearing one. As a matter of fact, what happens it's not a mask but a series of layers (as you pointed below), one deposited after the other (altough the mask simily is nicer). About the ego, yes I agree with you..and that's the trap of meditation I guess. I found a cure with karate, a moment in which your spirit can express itself through your body, and focusing can find a more phisical dimension, letting the brain "rest" in a way. I don't know if I managed to explain. (I guess there's room for an article haha, that's what happens with nice conversations).
Does another mask appear straight after removing a previous one, or was it always underneath, influencing it?
You definitely should write about that :)
Maybe the lack of stillness in karate, through movement allows the mind to not be able to think.
Maybe both of your hypotheses! I will, when I have something interesting to say about it, probably first i need to brush some existentialism, Pirandello or whatever else hehe :-) I would say that the mind in karate thinks differently..what we look for is harmony. Harmony through a fight means to fight your own demons first..it's pretty cool :-P
I would like to recommend a book -The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus. Camus introduces his philosophy of the absurd, man's futile search for meaning, unity, and clarity in the face of an unintelligible world devoid of God and eternal truths or values. Does the realization of the absurd require suicide?
I have read the general outline of what Camus is suggesting, in that realizing the absurd can either produce acceptance or a false explanation.
To reconcile the cognitive dissonance between apparent meaninglessness and a later creation of a theory justifying it is challenging (understatement), maybe without a definitive answer (in regard to suicide).
Thank-you
This article really resonates with me because I went through a similar process, or perhaps mindset. Basically, I did not see the point in living anymore and felt that there wasn't really a difference between living and dying. If I were to continue with life for another 50 years, well that would be about as significant and meaningful as dying tomorrow. Living just to live. I spoke of death all of the time. I was depressed. I branded myself. I asked myself over and over "what is the point of life?" until it eventually consumed me. I read or studied philosophy and psychology and religion and spirituality, and basically any knowledge that would help me answer the question, "what is the point of all of this?" I eventually concluded was that there is no grand purpose to our lives, there is no absolute meaning to it all other than maybe the point of life is simply to live. Ultimately, meaning and purpose are figments of our own imagination. They are thoughts created in our minds and that is why the answer is different for everyone. Different perspectives and different meanings. Different purposes.
Spending our time doing things that we enjoy or that are interesting to us. Creating. Living in the moment and possibly the most influential - connecting with other people. These are some things that tend to bring about happiness and a sense of purpose for many individuals.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your personal experiences. I do not think you are alone in having these thoughts so I think it is good that you are sharing them. I am sure they will resonate with others as well.
I see myself in what you experienced -'living just to live', what I can't see is any hope if I cannot find any subjective purpose. That would be (and is) crushing. Maybe simply writing about what I think is enough, although again I'm unsure and skeptical.
I agree with you that purpose is of our own creation, what frustrates me is that I don't feel genuine or 'real' if I just choose one. I don't honestly know how to reach an answer. The mind is such a conflicting contraption.
I was extremely doubtful of posting this as I didn't know what to expect as a reception. This changed when I realized that I would be effectively self-censoring by not posting, which the thought of which was making things much worse. Also as shown by some Steemians and other people in my personal life, suicide is something that should at least be talked about, in a candid way.
Thanks for helping me to try to figure this out
I agree with you that purpose is of our own creation, what frustrates me is that I don't feel genuine or 'real' if I just choose one. I don't honestly know how to reach an answer. The mind is such a conflicting contraption.
@mahbubalam I see what you are saying and agree. I personally do not think it is beneficial for us to just pick and choose a purpose for our lives. I think it is a process that happens organically and authentically for each individual. If it happens authentically then purpose becomes integrated into "who we are" which gives our life meaning.
My personal belief is that when it comes to the meaning of life, there is no absolute, definitive and objective truth. Rather, meaning and purpose are subjective and personal to each individual. In the same regard, I do not believe that we need a purpose or that we necessarily require there to be a meaning to our lives. If we believe that we need a purpose, this in itself can create discomfort, anxiety and depression because we my feel as though we are missing something. We may also spend our lives looking for something that is unattainable, which may further our discomfort.
My point is that if we feel as though we have a purpose in life then - that's great. however, if we feel as though we do not have a purpose, then this is also fine and we can be assured that there is no absolute purpose for anyone and that such things are simply illusions created in the mind. If we realize this then we can end our search for meaning and purpose and simply live within the given moment. Many philosophies teach that we eliminate suffering and find happiness simply by living in the moment.
Maybe you can view this as a positive: we're all gonna die anyway, so why hurry? Nature/Life is gonna do it, so why do it to yourself? You can live it through just out of curiosity.
That does me in sometimes too.
I've been writing a meaning of life series for some time now, and some of my ideas may help you figure out your feelings a bit better. Although I haven't gotten to the parts yet that relate to suicide and depression per se. But here and there you can find ideas that maybe will aid your search for understanding. If you just check my latest post, you will find links at the end for all the other parts, so you don't have to search through my page.
I should also ask the obvious: do you exercise and eat healthy?
When thinking about this, that is what I have been doing. Why even be curious? Because someone gives a value to do so? Many may delude themselves into thinking that anything but survival is the underlying reason for these values, which is related to the human condition. Even writing posts in a sense is to create an impact, to portray survival to the individual themselves and to others.
I have read your last post, and in regards to the ship my perspective is that the ship generally is the same (and same title used to describe it is), although constantly is changing as time progresses as every board is changed so cannot be considered the same.
Also in reading about nihilism it appears to be impossible to be one (although the nihilist may want to think themselves as).
I think it is an ideological position of deflection, as biological subconscious mechanisms will prescribe value to something, and even someone saying they are a nihilist is giving a value to this. I also do not exercise too much and I aim to not eat animal products (I have seen your I am therefore I harm post, not implying veganism is without suffering).
I would be interested on your perspective on healthy eating especially due to the conflicting information related to nutrition (high vs low carbs, saturated fat, sugar, cholesterol).
Thanks for bringing this to attention :)
Thanks for reading all of that!
Regarding nutrition, I more or less follow Michael Pollan and Nutrition Concepts and Controversies 14th edition, which is very similar to the Dash diet. That is basically what current science has to say, so that is what I do. There's many ways to follow these diets though regarding combinations, so I cook traditional dishes whenever I can instead of just throwing ingredients together or cooking recipes that came out of nowhere. Most traditional dishes come from my family, but Nourishing Traditions is a good source for that too.
As for exercise, anyone can do some basic weightlifting at home by purchasing a basic set of weights. Just 30 min a day or every other day will do, and you get all the cardiovascular benefits of cardio. Or, if money is a concern, you can do bodyweight exercises at no cost.
@outtayourbox A great deal details thanks for sharing. Like it..
I can't and won't comment on your philosophical view towards life and death. I am honestly not at that level. I am just a dude trying my best to be happy and being grateful for the good things in my life.
I think though, euthanasia can be considered, hence, suicide needs to be talked about especially for people in a lot of pain, and are going to die anyway.
Check this out:
https://www.unilad.co.uk/film/euthanasia-video-of-dying-man-so-horrific-people-cant-watch-it/
Warning: The video in the article is dramatic and extremely disturbing.
So yup, perhaps death is the best and only option for those in pain.
Thanks for the insights @outtayourbox
above post really nice.
Thanks
I wish that I could try to feel happy or reach happiness but it seems too far in the distance to reach right now.
I think distinguishing between physical and mental pain are important for why someone would use euthanasia, although the feeling of pain for both are linked to the same/similar brain circuitry I suppose. For those that would die anyway such as the individual in the video, a stronger argument could be made. It's confusing that the video is described as pro-euthanasia however doesn't seem to display it as positive.
In my instance hope still lingers somewhat in a small corner, hence why I am posting at all and not at a euthanasia clinic right now. Personal agency to commit the act itself in a sense for those in pain, I have read, is a factor for one to have a modicum of control.
I don't pretend to know the answers to this (clearly by my post) or that there is one, I just know questioning the topic is needed.
Thank-you for the bringing this to attention, and your perspective
It may linger in a small corner, but that's the power of hope.
It's all encompassing.
Feel free to hit me up on Steemit chat if you ever wanna talk man.