Community Decisions to Establish Rules vs. "It's in the Code = LAW", and the Battle for Decentralization

in #steemit8 years ago (edited)

The code or what text says you "can" do needs to be related to the affect it has on the community of actual people who make up the platform the code is there for.

There is a concentration of power that the community has not liked since the outset, but it has remained, as those who have the concentration of power (SP stakeholders) don't want to let go of that power and control. This concentration of power issue applies to the allocation of the majority of reward pool from what are called "whales" (the highest SP holders), as well as the self-appointed reward-police who selectively and inconsistently reverse reward allocation as they see fit.

Just because the majority of community doesn't have as much SP power, doesn't mean the majority of people should be disempowered from directing the platform, such as what features are good or bad like the concentration of power being used on the platform to do things certain people decide they can do.

If the large stakeholders of STEEM (49 people) continue to alienate the community at large, this project will implode. Steemit will not survive if the community remains disenfranchised and disillusioned.

Community vs. Code

The code can change according to the betterment of the community. Ignoring the issues in the community while simply following the tech/code because the tech/code says "you can do this" is not going to create a lasting platform as it ignores the community of real people that make up the platform and focuses on what the tech/code says is "allowed". What is allowed is to be determined by people/community that can change the tech/code rules to better serve the community rather than harm it. The tech/code isn't immutable from change or from being flawed or working incorrectly.

The community can recognize something is wrong and needs to change. The few powerful stakeholders alone can't decide to use tech/code/functions regardless of how it affects the community of larger users. If that's how things were run, then Steemit Inc. could take their @steemit account and do anything they wanted, change any code without care for how it affected the community.

But that's not how things are run for Steemit Inc., and they shouldn't be run this way for how stakeholders think they can just do whatever they want either just because "its in the code", or "it says it in the text here", or they "feel like it" and do whatever they want with no repercussions. The community is the one that is supposed to apply consequence to wrong behavior and force changes to the underlying code to improve how the platform functions, which isn't all about stakeholders. The platform is nothing without the community to use it.

Thinking according to "code = law" ignores what the behavior the code is promoting. The code dictates what people can or can't do, right or wrong, and then people do it right or wrong because they are only looking at "code = law".

Thinking according to community decisions to determine if behavior is acceptable looks at how the cold impersonal code as "law" is affecting the overall community.

Difference?

Notice the difference?

The code doesn't care about problems, and those who follow the code blindly as the "law" or "rules" that permit or allow behavior, are not looking at how the community is affected. The code comes first in many mindsets, and it says that "something" is allowed or not, so those who do certain behavior just keep doing it because the code allows it. Apparently, there is nothing wrong with their behavior if the "code = law" allows it. The "law" is blind and perfectly "just", it applies to everyone. Or does it? Not if certain individuals are applying it selectively and inconsistently. Then it's not "the law is blind" but the law is being used against some but not others who get a free pass for some reason.

A community is made up of people that can judge and respond to changes in behavior and how it affects the community. When bad code is allowing bad behavior, the community can decide to change it after recognizing the problem. They aren't simply blinded and restricted into "code = law therefore nothing wrong being done". Individuals and the community can judge wrong behavior, whereas code can't. Code is created by a person who is hopefully trying to prevent wrong behavior from being perpetuated on the community, but that doesn't always work out. The community discernment of what is happening from bad "code = law" is what can change the bad "code = law".

Adapt and Change to Correct Bad Code/Functionality

In a post yesterday by @dwinblood on decision paralysis, it ends with an important thing to understand:

I am fine with trying anything to make steemit better with the understanding that the things that don't work we all agree to stop doing once we've proven they don't work.

Flag Reasons and Changes

If something was not in the code before (or not in a text box saying you can do this because the text says you can), but then was added, it can also be removed. Things that don't work need to be stopped once demonstrated it doesn't work right. One such feature that was added in recent months, is the display text that simply says: "Disagreement on rewards". This says "you're allowed to remove rewards by flagging". Why? Who knows, you just make up the reason as you see fit... does that seem right to you?

  • Thumbs up, likes and upvotes are automatically associated with a positive (+) anywhere online.
  • Thumbs down, unlike, downvotes, and flags, automatically associated with a negative (-) anywhere online.

The standard flag reasons are:

Fraud or Plagiarism
Hate Speech or Internet Trolling
Intentional miscategorized content or Spam

This shows the negative reasons why a flag is used for something wrong done. The flag is a negative applied for doing something wrong. Is being rewarded by others negative or wrong? Who decides? 1 or 2 people?

Plagiarism isn't just someone deciding it's plagiarism because they say so. It can be detected. Spam is spam, usually posting irrelevant comments that have nothing to do with a post. Repeating information about an issue that people don't want to address is not spam. It's bringing up an issues that people need to be aware of, but that takes time. How do you think the abolition of slavery succeeded? By not repeating the same truth over and over for people to understand? No, repetition is required.

The flag has specific reasons and criteria that each have measures (measure of plagiarism to determine it is plagiarism, etc.). They aren't simply made-up by someone. If reasons are simply made up and not applied with any measurement or consistency, then abuse of the coded functionality and misflagging can occur. This is why a review of flags by the community needs to be implemented into Steemit because it's being applied willy-nilly by some who take it upon themselves to police the rewards on the whole platform. There is a reason they are doing this, as mentioned above, the concentration of power. Except, they are concentrating the power to remove rewards into the hands of one or two individuals, while the concentration of rewards is at least 30-40 people who can do it. The reward-police is an even greater issue from concentration of power. But both concentrations of power need to be addressed.

Too Much Rewards...

"Overrewarded" flags that apply a negative valuation on content, require a measure of its own, like the other criteria for flags that can be measured. If $100 is the criteria, then all posts above $100 are overrewarded, because it can be measured like a speeding ticket. Everyone over 100mph gets a ticket. But if some people get a ticket at 50mph while others can still go over a 100mph without a ticket, something is wrong. Something is broken. The police applying tickets are corrupted or abusing their power by ticketing some people at 50mph but letting others go faster.

Can anyone flag another for any reason? Yes. Does that make it right? No. Discernment and judgment need to be applied to flag. What is the criteria for the flag? What reason? When someone simply says "overrewarded" (you were speeding), but others get more rewards (speeding) yet don't get flagged (ticketed), then something is not being done right. Something is very wrong with the police. This inconsistent hypocrisy amounts to the abuse of power, and is corruption. Look up police corruption in giving tickets. Understand the flag-police are behaving corruptly despite their justification to the contrary. I showed the data earlier for how this is failing big time. It's a response to concentration of power in reward allocation, but they are just concentrating the power even more into their hands to remove rewards. Not cool.

If individuals can't see what they are doing, that doesn't mean other people can't see it. A community can stand against he corruption of the police and force them to change. The community is the one that is supposed to decide what happens in the community, not the corrupt police who are either acting ignorantly and don't understand they are being corrupt, or they know full well what they are doing. It's obvious for many who saw how some posts were being flagged but not others despite larger rewards.

The reward-police is currently a concentration of power in the hands of fewer whales (1-2) than the overall amount of whales there are that give out rewards. 20-50 whales can apply rewards to posts, but only 1 or 2 individuals have taken it upon themselves to be the reward-police and decide who can and can't get certain reward amounts, and they don't even apply it rationally or consistently.

The reward-police claim that they are doing this because things aren't fair when posts are voted on by whales that send the rewards too high. Yet they are only choosing some posts to cut rewards from, while leaving other posts at even higher rewards untouched.

You want proof? It's in the blockchain. I already showed this proof in part for a few posts in a 1-2 day period. Earlier today I posted some more data over a longer period of time: Payouts Over $50 vs. Flags Applied (Feb. 18-24)


Raising some hell... Fight for what's right!

Why am I doing this? Why am I fighting against this? Because I care for what's right! I care for Steemit and the community. I see what's going on, and so do many others. I speak up against it, but am ignored along with the data presented by those who don't want to face what they are doing, and others are defending this behavior because they don't see the problem either. So I get more vitriolic and call out what they continue to do to silence the information getting out.

Some people justify this reward-policing because its "written on the site", and it's "in the code" because they are blinded by the "code = law" mentality. Some people have demonstrated this to me in voice chat and text chat.

I understand they may think they are doing "good" according to the "code = law so I'm allowed" mentality, but the behavior is damaging to the community, and many people see it. Some people are very familiar with how content generation platforms have failed in the past and have been sharing their experience of how a small group of people deciding to run things their own way goes against how it affects the community, and this leads to it's downfall.

Do we want things to change? Or are we just going to keep marching onto more problems that are unresolved because we don't want to address them? Some of us are speaking up, and more people need to listen to what we're saying.

If the real reason the reward-police have formed is because of some content being rewarded more than others, where "rewards are blown up out disproportionately, staving out many other posts", then all posts above a certain reward amount need to be reduced to affect the redistribution of rewards they seek, but that is NOT what they are doing. Their behavior is not a solution at all. It just leaves some posts with more rewards untouched, while others that had less rewards get flagged for being allegedly "overrewarded". It's irrational, inconsistent and hypocritical. Look up the definitions of those words if you don't like them.

Solutions to Concentration of Power?

The real solution to some people being rewarded too much by whales, is to change how the voting on the platform work by giving the community more power to allocate the rewards to content. This is in contrast to just 20-50 whales allocating most of the rewards, and then 1-2 reward-police inconsistently applying reward "corrections" at their personal whims.

Here are some posts trying to address how the community can have the power to allocate rewards so that the whales aren't the ones who have the most weight to allocate rewards from the daily pool:

Some changes can be made, but the overall idea is what needs to be understood.

An alternative is to delegate the power to the majority of the community for the majority of people to determine how rewards are allocated, while the curation from that delegation of power goes to the SP holders who delegated it. If a whale did upvote, they could allocate more rewards, but the other posts wouldn't be as affected compared to now, since they would all be upvoted by the overall power being delegated to the community from all the larger SP accounts.

If removing rewards was called for, again, the community needs to be in charge of this, not 1, 2 or 40 large stake holder accounts.

Ideas are welcome. Make proposals on your blog page. Share and reblog them. Building Steemit on a solid foundation is required before building more on top of it. We aren't standing on solid ground. There are many issues and problems that show cracks in the foundation. Before trying to attract more people, issues need to be dealt with so we can have a proper foundation to build upon into the future


Thank you for your time and attention! I appreciate the knowledge reaching more people. Take care. Peace.


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2017-02-27, 1:25pm

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Sadly the people that most likely would benefit from this discussion with you have long ago stopped reading what you write. They have instead started posting memes about whining about unfairness and of course calling people that challenge them trolls. I don't actually know if some of them have the reading comprehension to read something like this. There are some that do, and hopefully they will refrain from simply ignoring you.

Why would I need to read another rambling like this.

Headline says: decentralization; bottomline says: give the community more power.

You fail to realize that the inflated payouts krnel received were simply the result of dan voting for krnel with his massive stake. Once others noticed that, they auto-voted for krnel too.

You'd have to be a special type of delusional to think that those post would have made those huge payouts if it wasn't for dan's votes. The result of a centralized system.

Call my ignorant all you like.
If you need to make 10+ posts, pages long, over the same point again and again I wouldn't call that intelligent, either.

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Yup, I know. All they have is ridicule and mockery from a position of ignorance since they lack understanding and the will to learn by reading. It's like my posts that got flagged and called of "no value" when the person doesn't even understand the content lol.

Awesome post !!! Im in full agreement of course !!! Lol! This current system needs a major overhaul to say the least ! And soon!!! People are leaving and not coming on board to begin with , my 2 sons now 27 and 30 wont join because of the lopsidedness if thats a word lol , and the constant downvoteing of posts !! I myself have totally decided to cut back on my posting because if i ever get a good reward maybe once a month , it gets downvoted because im aparently draining the rewards pool !! Its a joke really ! Anyways keep up the great work ! End of rant !! Lol !😉👍😆

Yeah it sucks. The problem was there, and slowly building in people dissatisfaction. The centralization of power has been there for a while and people just take it because thats the way it is, some have left because they thought this would stay forever and would lead to failure in the end. What we have now are more symptoms of the underlying issue. But with vote delegation, we can turn this whole thing around and make Steemit a real success by giving the power to the people who use the site, while giving the stakeholders the curation. Then people won't feel disempowered in their votes and in how the majority of rewards are allocated. It won't be based on 30-50 whales.

Well that sounds great to me !! But i will believe it when i see it !! 👍😉

Motions and bullshit, your crap means nothing, and I can prove it. Mere platitudes: I am not a developer so it's not my department, then why the fuck are you even expressing your support for something you have no comprehension of? Exactly.

all this push for change is happening inside a tiny bubble that large stakeholders don't care about, in the short term very little will change and steemit power will continue to be centralized, the only way it will become decentralized is when there are 10,000 active users per day as a result of steemit inc marketing, and that's months from now

Ok mr I view flagging as a private matter on a completely transparent system, you're playing the prophet now, after this it will be what? Support me on the next cryptocurrency associate siphoning vblog?
The only way, inside a tiny bubble, what other don't care about, very little will change, all inconsequential opinions, prove me wrong. O wait, I'll have to for the prophetic troll of mental midget status to.

You also supported the irrationality that @craig-grant was posting just a few days ago, I challanged him again and again and it's obvious he is a mental midget, happy to ride the whalecock of bernei and smooth, so your support comes with the hypocrisy of applauding a mental midget.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@craig-grant/steemit-flagging-to-reduce-rewards-it-s-great#@baah/re-craig-grant-re-robertmacdonald-re-craig-grant-re-robertmacdonald-re-craig-grant-steemit-flagging-to-reduce-rewards-it-s-great-20170226t065452135z

Once again! ARE YOU ON CRACK !?!?!?

Once again? Is that your fail at holding count, and what does me being on crack have to do with my arguments? Can you not attack my argument only my person? Exclamate away

Since you vote for yourself I only have to laugh at how imbecilic you truly are and I highly doubt that anything you say is worth shit, you Invalidate yourself left and right and have no problem lying and like the hypocrite you are you offer your opinion on something that you said you don't have the grasp of, wowza, please don't run with scissors, but then again who will really miss someone that lies left and right, is a fucking hypocrite and gives their opinions on matters they have no comprehension of, PLATITUDE AWAY with all the exclamations you feel require the non-thoughts you're undoubtedly gonna vomit, every asshole has an opinion.

The truth hurts grant, you can bet you ass that your comment defines you as a troll in this circumstance, but before you have proven that you're incapable of answering a simple and serious question, and an equal shameful inability to offer your rational for it. You are a mental midget, you are a troll. You consider yourself whatever you want but the facts are there on the blockchain.

Everyones entitled to their own opinion ! You have not read alot if not most of what ive been against ! Name calling is going to get you no where on steemit ! I have never called anyone names no matter how much i disagree with how they operate or how the system is set up in a way that makes them do what what they do because they feel there is no other way !! What im saying now and have been saying for some time is that that the system needs an overhaul of some kind in order to bennifit all steemians on the platform ! Not just some !! A big change is needed before more people will join steemit and less people will leave !! This is not my department im not a Dev !! But im sure they can come up with a way thats suitable for all of us !!

Let me reiterate it again:
You support craig-grant, which I did asses as a mental midget, which means exactly that: you support his opinions which are GRATING to the mind of any discernible thinker and no ammount of exclamation will change that!!!!

need I break down his video WORD BY WORD to show how irrational and retarded it is? Challenge Accepted.

To begin with he states that he thinks that curation is perfect, BUT it needs to be managed better, retarded point number 1.
Then he states that he read a post, SCRATCH that, he scanned over a post.
Retarded point number deux.
He calls is Complaining. His scanned post assessment leads him to conclude that krnel was complaining, not making valid arguments, complaining. Great one so sexy, i have fun all the time and cannot answer one question and everyone is entitled to their opinion but gdawg forbid you call them out for being assholes, mental midgets, imbeciles because you don't condone that, like your opinion is so much more valuable when there's 7 billions of them walking around.
So number 4, he concluded complaining after admitting to not reading the post, moron, retard, mental midget. The blockchain remembers, I can see your facial expressions and the complete discomfort you are in expressing opinions, speak your mind bro, don't look like you're taking a shit every time you enunciate something.
The number one reason he thinks flagging is for: to reduce rewards, a point you wholehearted say you support. What do you say about that?
Let's not count that as a whole point in the imbecile dumbass section, just a larf of a half.
4.5
He finally has a reason to do something negative, finally: assholes cannot wait to jump on negatives they perceive as positive.
5.5 for the asshole.
6.5- because they are always on the trending page, retarded logic again.
7.5 points now for being a moron imbecile- because they are great at blogging.
8.5 he admints he is part of the problem "even my bot, I am another asshole that supports great content with my bot and that means his work, krnel's great, hard work (o wait work is not in his dictionary but he speaks about work) needs to be punished because I am a moron and my opinion overrules morality
9.5 well the rewards are pretty spread out, invalidating himself 2 seconds after he tried to make a point that krnel is taking in EVERYONE'S money.
awesome sauce moron retard imbecile unable to form one valid thought, read that again, ONE VALID THOUGHT, UNABLE TO FORM ONE VALID THOUGHT, proof in the blockchain.
10.5 it's not good to see the same user every single day..

Need I continue, I literally had to grate my brain for two and a half minutes out of almost 7 minutes of imbecile opinionated drivel.

Yes, you support exactly who, exclamation mark ensue in 3. 2. 1.

" I have never called anyone names no matter how much i disagree with how they operate"

Did you not ask me if I was on crack, or you believe that is not name calling you imbecilic non-thought? Obviously you have no problem calling me a crack head you dumbass, at least don't invalidate your comment by lying you fucking hypocrite liar.

You are now muted !!!

Calling me a crack head and then you mute me, how quaint of the imbecility you ascribe to.

Hehe, that wasn't target at you. :)

Well, I am part of that clique. I'm one of the bad guys.

Every vote I've given on this platform, be it upvote or downvote, has been subjective. Just like every other vote ever given.
No other types of votes exist.

Yes, but this is not the purpose of the flag. You could argue semantics over what constitutes abuse, what constitutes spam, etc. I believe plagiarism is pretty cut and dried.

The adding of the words about if you think the rewards are too high DID indeed open the subjective flood gates.

Oh are you subjectively down voting people? Also, are you one of those saying "I didn't read it" and then deciding to bash and attack anyway?

If you are reasonable and you actually read it, then you were not whom I am referring to. Disagreement is fine and healthy.

Every vote I've given on this platform, be it upvote or downvote, has been subjective. Just like every other vote ever given.

No other types of votes exist. Value is subjective.

I am new here and have been watching how it works - I called it an upside down system: The Peter Principle, Ortega y Gasset and the Self-Determination of Steemit
I am following you for more understanding - thank you.

Welcome, thanks for sharing that post.

Nice summation, I tend to agree, whatever the case may be, whose with "power" should be accountable, not blaming anybody. Interesting set of philosophies.

But I feel I should drive on the wrong side of the road and I have the freedom to do so :P

I do agree :) but be careful on those turns, with the other direction running into you :P

Maybe the obvious logic is to drive on the right side of the road then traffic would flow nicely right? :)

left to it's own devices, so if the flow is working. Ok another question since we have both directions as viable, how do we know/decide which is the right side when two cars crash. Everyone is allowed to move in any direction, but payout is moved into a single lane: left or right

So it can be solved, the question is how. I think a consensus should be added the flag kept and a downvote be used as a option. but having people able to add/take away almost half of the payout is a problem.

If we solve on of the main problems of the world as it is, how to solve abuse of power, disparity of power,

I'm thinking people flagging should be treated just as promotions are, flag for 50$ sure give your 50$ let them speak, not your VESTS, if you are disagreeing with another persons payout and making him lose you should too. That would bring in some balance maybe, but anything where problems are revolved rather than moved past with a solution would bring in problems.

So in light of the cars analogy, if two cars crash, they should both get wrecked. Here comes the reputation argument. If you argue you should put your reputation on the line. Aand we get into the concept of law and justice. Where flags are issued and then a case is built and resolved. In the best case scenario.(taken to court, here whales should be able to lose,) This is my second idea but that would make it harder I think, flag for abuse, but leave it out to others to decide if it is appropriate. Disagree on rewards, ok, do 10 other people on your level with a different background. Sure that would swamp the platform with legalities. But also make the flag a meaningful option for abuse. So far it's taking its own course and at least we are moving into some conversation that isn't fueled by some(much) discontent.

I need to totally agree also in what you said about the downvoteing ! : That its Irrational ! Hypocritical ! And Inconsistant !! You have my full support !!! Upvoted and resteemed !! 👍😉

Does that mean you are against what 2craig-grant views a flag as: private matter, and of no consequence? Or when you were congratulating that mental midget on his "support" you did that in lieu of knowing his position on this matters? Because anybody with half a sense, that watched those retarded nonsensical ramblings that offer absolutely nothing but paradoxically sterile and insightful fruitless non-thoughts knows he hasn't offered anything else.

Oops, seems you attacked my character once before, so thumbs up for keeping count on how many times you tried to attack my persona instead of disregarding my opinion, which like the hypocrite you are "i never called anybody names".
Fucking hypocrite.

Good post. Resteeming this one.

Sadly like I said I doubt the people that really need to read this will. You were not even antagonistic of anyone in particular on this.

I will say another thing about "Code = Law"... they will talk about that UNTIL it is applied to them. Check out when @dantheman voted against them, and then they dogpiled to counter him, and then he voted with the @dan account and suddenly "Code = Law" no longer applied to them.

In fact from that point on you'll notice a lot of the over rewarded posts they flag seem to be linked to the fact the @dan account voted on them.

I just got called a troll on one of their posts for pointing out hypocrisy again. I showed one of them that their post currently had 20 more votes than views so it must be bots, or people that didn't read it. This same person was attacking you for exactly that same thing on your posts. To which he resorted to ad hominems which is becoming his go to strategy.

Yup, you figured it out with observation of reality :) Something many people lack the ability to do properly. Thank you for trying, I appreciate the effort :)

Cheers to both!

Nice post. I will always be against concentration of power.
It could be done with code. If Steemit can't do it (and they have good reasons not to do it), someone else will do, someday. I would like to fork this place, but I can't code :D

Be honest: would you be making this post if the largest stakeholders all supported you consistently? Honestly. Would this post exist?

It seems to me that what you've experienced recently is indeed decentralization: a group of stakeholders supported you, and then a few others decided not to since they felt that you were enjoying a rather concentrated allocation of the rewards.

I'm extremely skeptical of the idea of this complaint coming from you if were to experience the centralized support of all of the large stakeholders on all of your posts.

On the contrary, within the confides of this post here, you would be rationalizing to us right now how it's good for the platform that your content gets rewarded by everybody.

I don't know anything about your situation, but if you're this hurt for money, then perhaps a GoFundMe page could help?

I am new here but have done a lot of watching and seeing how it works. If 4% of the output gets 98% of the reward, how does that work? The Peter Principle, Ortega y Gasset and the Self-Determination of Steemit
The hope of these thoughts is to better the platform, no individual. It cannot live with the system rewarding power as it does - there is only one direction for it to go and that is not what is meant to happen

I think the idea needs a bit of refinement.
But you are correct, that

If 4% of the output gets 98% of the reward, how does that work?

would stem from the fact that 4% of users have 98% of the power I guess.

What can be done? I would love to know, I'm busting my head trying to think of a way that makes sense to everyone. There are valid points in your post.

I love the thought of a system that's smarter than "one share one vote," and I'd love help build such a system. I think many of @snowflake's ideas are susceptible to sybils and account-splitting, but he's on the right track of trying to come up with good ways to make Steemit truly a place where engagement is rewarded with ownership.

The other problem is this: whether it's good or bad, in a blockchain system, code is a major part of the law, and it cannot be otherwise. People disagree about the appropriate use of flagging, and the only thing they have to fall back on is the code. The code does not allow for preventing someone from flagging for crappy reasons. Therefore, people will sometimes flag for crappy reasons and the only way to get them to stop is through some social means (like shaming).

So if you want this to be the deepest core of reality:

If removing rewards was called for, again, the community needs to be in charge of this, not 1, 2 or 40 large stake holder accounts.

You need to find a way to code it, and that way has to be resistant to abuse, it has to be resistant to sybils, it can't just be an incentive for whales to split their accounts into flurries of little accounts. As is becoming clear, that is not an easy set of constraints to satisfy.

Sure, I agree that majority rule has some advantages over stake rule. But what does a majority mean? How do you tell the blockchain who the unique individuals are that constitute part of the community? How do you count votes in a fair autonomous way if not with stake-weighting?

I'm not being pessimistic just for the sake of pessimism, and I'm certainly not trying to imply that there are no good solutions to these problems. I'm just trying to point out that whether we agree with you or not about how things should be, it's not at all obvious how we go from a picture of should to a system that actually works.

Dan actually agrees with this too. This is why I comment on the flagging posts. I know it can't be done via code YET as none of us know a way to do it that can't simply open the door to another type of gaming/exploit. That is the difficulty.

So the only place I can try to improve things is in the minds of people. For the most part this will likely be unsuccessful, yet DIFFICULT does not mean I should not try.

I believe that is also where @krnel is at, at this point.

Some of the people doing this flagging seem to think they are in a little bubble. They forget that their actions, and their discussions with people like me are seen by others in this community. These people can decide not to support me by my stance, but they can also hear me and perhaps not support them.

They have enough power they could do pretty well just by posting, up voting their own post 100%, commenting, and up voting their own comments 100%. So technically they are so powerful now they don't technically need anyone from the community. That is how some of them are actually acting IMO, as if they don't give a damn about the community. Others I do believe care about the community. Yet they still are seeing things in black and white and are missing the things like the red of the blood from the wounds to the confidence, pocket book, etc their flags can have on others. A bloody sport to the spectators... do they want to wade into this war?

It's not as bloody as reddit, but reddit doesn't have a monetary value attached to it, and from observation that seems to have an amplifying effect on the impact. This is just observation to reactions.

Great to see some constructive ideas being presented. I appreciate people being orientated towards solutions rather than problems.

The code comes first in many mindsets, and it says that "something" is allowed or not, so those who do certain behavior just keep doing it because the code allows it. Apparently, there is nothing wrong with their behavior if the "code = law" allows it. The "law" is blind and perfectly "just", it applies to everyone.

Not at all! The code is the code, yes. But it is never right to be a bully like the people abusing the system are.
But I have no power over the code. I can decide whether or not to let the bullies upset me. I have to decide whether or not I can live with it. I have decided to not have any expectations about my earnings here on Steemit, and just keep getting my message out that I blog about.

There is no parallel here with fighting to end slavery. Steemit is just a website. Nobody has to participate if they don't want to. But if they DO choose to be here they WILL be attacked by flag bandits eventually.

It is GREAT to post about ideas to make Steemit better and hopefully the code will be changed. But this is not really about right and wrong. It's about whether people will continue to find Steemit worth using or not. I want changes to be made because I want Steemit to succeed.
Websites and businesses and cryptocurrencies come and go, some succeed and some don't.
Until the Steemit code changes, or if it never does, we have to decide how much we will let these bullies affect our freedom of speech. So far I haven't heard of good posts going completely invisible due to the flagging. If that started to happen to me I would definitely leave, because my freedom of speech here would have disappeared. Until then, I will probably continue on blogging and hope that Steemit developers find a solution to keep it's users happy.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@ats-david/examining-honey-from-a-different-perspective-steemit-sock-puppetry-continues

That was an issue where a few whales, smooth included, flagged the post and made it invisible for more ppl to see. Then I resteemed and dan eventually upvoted along with ned prior to make it visible and a large payout. It was an important issue that was describes as "having no value" like has been done to my actual original quality content... yet people found great value in my content as well as the exposure of the fishy account behavior in the post above. People are always wanting to suppress issues that need to be dealt with but are "damaging to the platform" because some people don't want to deal with issues. Then they just say it's a "witch hunt" like they are saying to me. Leaving it up to one of 30 power players in the platform to decide who can get what rewards for what value they determine, is not right. There is wrong doing going on when this happens. A few people can silence dissent and prevent knowledge from reaching the community so that we can be informed. I don;t get why people don't understand this. All issues need to be provided to the community to inform us. That's my position. Knowledge, not ignorance. I want to know hows a bad apple.

Okay. If it's a cause that you feel is worthy of all your energy, then do what you believe must be done.
For myself, I have other important real-life causes that already expend a lot of my energy.
I think of Steem like a business, that the founders started and should want to succeed. It's up to them to save their business and not up to me. I will leave that fight for someone else.
Do what you think is right and important.
I'm just trying to point out that for me at least, it is not worth the drama. I love Steem, but it's a website.

hopefully, It's up to us, please give your ideas. Frame them correctly and invite others to give their 2 cents, I like what krnel did finally, now that his anger has passed into real constructive criticism.

I think that people have already brainstormed some possible solutions in other posts.
Now it's just up the dev's to pick one and try it out.
I suppose these things take time. I think that they are already very aware of the issue. They know that people are leaving Steemit.
I'm actually pretty sure that they will fix this.
In the meantime, I will ignore the bully flaggers if they attack me again, and offer support to other offended people (as I have done already). We just have to hang in there until it gets fixed now, or leave Steemit if the drama is too unhealthy for us.

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