A Steem Tool That Shows Reputation Scores by Excluding The Effect of Bot Votes? Can It Be Developed and Will It Be Useful?
I have been wondering about this a lot lately. How would the reputation scores look like if the effect of bot votes is eliminated from the equation? This thought has lingered on ever since the debate around bid bots became mainstream. I wrote my detailed opinion on the matter in response to a survey conducted @inquiringtimes. The comment section of that survey is full of opinionated views about use and abuse of bid bots. My opinion contained a section on how reputation score algorithm was one of the causalities of bid bots.
Image designed via Canva.com
I am not a programmer so my ability to tinker with codes is good as the longest living granny. I do know that Steem is full of coding geeks and dev monsters though. I do have an idea in my mind and I invite your attention to this idea and see if it can be implemented.
A Tool Which Excludes The Reputation Score Acquired Through Bots!
That's what I would like to have developed. It can be an enhancement in a current tool or a new tool itself. I don't know if it possible as per blockchain's code or not but I do have a theoretical layout of what this tool should be able to do, thanks to my understanding of how reputation system works. Let me share it with you.
- When an account is opened via this tool, it fetches posts data from the Steem blockchain.
https://www.steemdb.com/@username/postsis a good source to fetch this data.
- After fetching posts data, it analyzes the votes obtained on all the posts by the selected user.
https://steemdb.com/giveaway/@ilyastarar/15-steem-giveaway-out-of-the-75-steem-i-won-as-prize/votesfor example. This data will be fetched from all the posts (not comments) by that user.
- From among the votes, it calculates the total Reward Shares pertaining to bots (a list of which is included in the code). Again, this calculation should include all the posts ever done by the user. (Does the blockchain permit this?)
- After calculating the total reward shares, the tool subtracts this number from the reputation score as shown in on
https://steemd.com/@usernameto exclude the effect of bots.
- Finally, the tool perform
log 10function as per the reputation score algorithm and displays reputation score free of the effect from bot votes.
- What would be more interesting is that the tool should display both the current and the now obtained reputation to have a comparison.
This tool can be a new website based app or an enhancement in the already developed apps. The Steem More Info plugin by @armandocat comes to my mind. There can simply be an option inside the app to show the reputation without influence if votes bought by the user. Devs like @stoodkev, @mcfarhat, @flauwy, @mahdiyari, @therealwolf, @anthonyadavisii, and more are requested to share their feedback.
Not Limited to Bots Only!
The initial thought was only about negating the bot votes. But I have an even more interesting use case for such a tool. What if a user wants to see what his reputation will be if the most generous voters had not voted for him or her? This tool can help that user by showing the reputation score excluding the effect of his biggest voters that he may choose just like we add tags while posting. It will certainly make users more thankful and loyal towards their biggest supporters and a culture of gratitude will be developed.
Why Bid Bots Though?
Steemit was initially based on human interaction and the votes were mostly organic. Steemians of earliest generation (of 2016) are generally the most generous people on the platform still. They did not have bots and they used to get votes from humans. The reputation thus obtained was a nearly correct measure of how much value a user delivers to the community.
Bots arrived last year. Bid bots even after the initial bots like randowhale or minnowbooster. Most of the bots and bid bots were introduced after I joined in June, 2017 so a lot of the bot developments are very recent. Recent are the inflated reputation scores as well because the reputation is no more attained through human interaction in most cases.
The purpose of having such a tool is to determine how much difference the bots have made on the platform and what effect the bots have had on the reputation score algorithm. I know my reputation score will be shown as 62 or the early 63 from the current 63.927 because of fairly low bot usage. I am sure we will have significant number of cases where reputations scores will show a huge difference.
Anyone Interested in Developing Such a Tool?
As I already said, I am not a developer. But it does not stop me from sharing my ideas which could turn into tools developed for enhancing Steem experience. I have more ideas too and I will share them regularly. For now, I am interested in knowing if this idea can be implemented or not? More importantly, is it possible to account for all the reward shares ever added to reputation score of user?
I am excited to know what devs say about this idea. Non technical users like me can add their opinion and suggestions too. Do you think such a tool should be available? Will it be of some value to the community? Will it serve as an analysis tool to see the impact of vote buying on the Steem ecosystem? Share your thoughts in the comments below. Please resteem to help the idea reach more people.
Interesting idea you got there @ilyastarar , as always :)
While I think that is technically feasible, yet reputation scores have grown less and less valued or regarded by steemit and the community. I recall reading recent suggestions about dropping them altogether, haven't followed up on the discussion nor if this will happen sooner/later.
I am not sure if I have the spare time to create this script, yet if I do i will definitely let you know :)
I would say, drop them altogether and start a new one with a better algo.
I wonder what will happen to the existing reputation scores.
Thank you for answering the important question about feasibility.
I see that a problem. Things not working as intended may put a product in jeopardy. I understand that projects evolve but reputation was such a uniquely designed feature.
I'll be waiting to see if you can get some time to do so. Thanks for the response. :)
First, there are some bots that upvote comments as well so they should be included.
Second, I have an idea of how this can be done on-demand using Steem Python using the blog() generator but, depending on many posts/comments the author has could take some time.
I think it would be interesting to see the scores so going to explore this further.
SteemSQL and/or Steemdata would probably best suited to this task but technically that would require a bit more familiarization on my part.
As for running it as a tool, a simple web app would not be difficult provided we have a function that works for the on-demand version.
Benefit of a database implementation, it the jobs can be scheduled to run with triggers which can save time. Suppose the app detects a new vote on x user, this would trigger said job to recalculate the user's botless rep. This way the user would not have to wait and the data should be readily available on the DB.
Great idea @ilyastarar! Also, thanks for the mention.
Let you know if I cook something up.
Thanks for the interest. I do not know the mumbo jumbo but trigger based on-demand data acquisition would help keep things current. The previous history is important because we are concerned about the reputation score that was built over time.
Thanks for joining the discussion and giving your input. I would be keeping an eye. :)
I would say, instead of doing something like that, starting the reputation from bottom in the steem 1.0 release would be a better solution. Steem is still in beta.
When the main release comes, there should be a new algo for the rep. Cause the current algo is mostly crap.
Interesting. I wonder where all the hardwork will go for the people like you and many other who have attained good reputation over the months. Current algo is crap but what will happen to the reputation that we all attained?
We will have to start from zero. And if the crappy algo is fixed, it shouldn't be hard for us to get back a good reputation.
It would be a favor for most and unfair to some. Some sort of compensation must be included. Some head start based on previous algo would be a nice thing to counter all the mess around reputation.
You are absolutely right. Thats why i made a contribution on utopian a while ago that reputation score should not increase when votes are bought from bots. For me, for you and clearly for a lot of people out there, reputation score is worth more than even 2000 SP. rep score is a measure to know how active and how popular a certain steemian is.. and this is being totally destroyed with bot votes. Hopefully someone will come up with a solution..
I've actually thought about this myself recently. Naturally, users tend to pay attention when they see a post or comment from a high rep user. I guess we assume that this person must be a fountain of valuable content because users with higher reps than them have voted them into this position over time.
Bots take that away entirely because there's no quality filter. You pay the price, you get the upvote and increased rep that goes along with it. If you're buying votes on every post you make, this can soon add up, and it kind of ruins the rep system altogether.
I have read through many articles about Steemit today, this is the second one that interests me because it is kinda related to the first article I commented generously on.
Back to the issue. I personally will like to see such an app, I know someone that joined Dec2017, just like me, and the rep shows above 60. I know I comment more, than post daily but I also knows his rep is 'inorganic' in nature. Sometimes I feel concerned but at the end of the day I say to myself; That's non of your business.
In the world of codes, nothing is impossible.
There are a lot of other good app developers apart from the ones you mentioned above. Someone or persons @steemgigs can brainstorm and translate your dream to fruition.
We will get it right someday. May be not today but eventually.
Yeah @emjoe that sometimes hurts...someone making inferior posts and having reputation score above 60...
It's like a slap in face to many organic sincere content creators...
That slap-in-face feeling is mutual. Lol.
Better still discouraging.
That's the reason I feel the need of such a tool. It won't do anything other than revealing the real reputation of people and helping concerned people where Steem is heading according to the ecosystem. I hope such an app gets developed.
I believe such can be developed. Lets wait and see.
If I understood you perfectly, you want a tool that can show your reputation without adding the ones gotten from bots?
It's quite possible! I'm a programmer and others out there should know it is possible. All they need is a list of bots and another tool to identify them. So, once you are upvoted by anyone from the list, it wouldn't count.
Hence, we will be having two reputations, one from steemit and another one provided by the tool.
It would have been great if steemit can build the tool itself. So, steemit should show you a real reputation, one you worked for, something you earned not just the ones you got from bots.
BTW: You should have submitted it via the utopian tag and raise the suggestion.
Making such a tool work on all future posts is of course possible. I am concerned about the retrospective calculations. If I have been using bots for 8 months now, will such a tool be able to explude the previous effect too?
I am more comfortable with using Steemit. Utopian is a nice place and I have contributed there but my content best suits Steemit. Plus I don't have to follow rules here. ;)
I'm agree with you. Someone should develop some tools to fix that. For long-term I think the community should be real. I just joined last month and I am working on getting organic votes organic followers and try to make more reputation. For sure everyone are here for money but if there is too much fake then I don't think long-term could be working. People just want easy way to get money I do respect they thinking but it doesn't mean I like what they do.
The last time I saw your account you were somewhere in the mid 30's with respect to reputation. Congratulations on your rapid rise to 50. The fact that it is organic is encourging.
Such a tool won't be a fix. It will just be an analysis tool as discussed in the post.
wow! your memory is amazing. Thank you. Yes I happy that my reputation keeps going well buy organic. Anyway I feel like they are so many things that I don't know here. Thank to you for sharing valuable information. I like to go read some of your old posts. They are very helpful 😊
I agree with your idea, @ilyastarar. Reputation should be organic, so it is mirroring real influence (is it the concept of reputation, isn't it?) and how people support him/her. Bots destroy the concept because people can buy influence. It is more similar with buying votes in election. It is not fair, I think.
Thank you for your feedback.
I think this is a good idea!
I hope someone can develop this tool, a lot of people would surely be curious to know this
I hope so too. Thank you for your response.