My Response to @lydon.sipe's "Yes, I am a Christian, and I Drink"
"Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
- Frank Sinatra -
My friend Lydon recently wrote about Christians and alcohol.
I think he may consider his position on the topic a little edgy... Perhaps it is, to some!
And so I'll go out on a ledge today and present a position that may be a little "edgier."
Unlike Lydon, the Christian schools I attended frowned on consumption of alcohol. Prohibitions always generate some amount of "push-back," and in my case, at least produced some thought on the matter.
What's your position on Christians drinking alcohol?
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How should Christians view and use alcoholic beverages?
I found Lydon's recent article interesting, balanced, and stimulating. I hope you'll have a look at it:
"Yes, I am a Christian, and I Drink"
I love the Maya Angelou quote, "moderation in moderation!" :) And, in the light of that, I offer up my personal extension/modification of Lydon's thesis.
I grew up in a theologically teetotalling tradition.
I was raised in a Baptist church. I remember my paternal grandparents giving me a tract promoting the thesis that the "wine" in the bible was actually grape juice. Many similar essays can still be found today on the internet.
Since then, I have learned the appropriate response to such "logic:"
"Poppycock!"
And I would like to point out that, in the greater, global context of all of scripture—the "dictionary" by which any individual scripture must be judged, evaluated, and interpreted—Ephesians 5:18 cannot possibly be interpreted in a binary, black-and-white fashion.
"Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart, giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ." - Ephesians 5:15-21
Pick your poison? Or reject them all?
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The Ephesians passage sets a backdrop,
it's true, with a caution against the risk and the danger of becoming a person with an addictive, habitual excessive relationship with liquor, but it is not a flat-out prohibition against the effects of alcohol in greater than minuscule quantities. The overwhelmingly positive thrust of the passage is the positive admonition to "make the best use of the time" to be animated by God's wind, and to relate to one another with a positive, thankful attitude.
We must also consider the admonitions in 1 Timothy 3:8 and in Titus 2:3 cautioning God's servants against an addictive relationship with alcohol that leads to de-facto slavery. We must consider as well the cautions in Proverbs here and here.
The lesson is clear.
We must learn to control our drinking, and not the other way around. Paul had this to say:
'“All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything.'
- 1 Corinthians 6:12
In other words, take all appropriate caution not to become dominated by alcohol. We are not prohibited from being "drunk" by some strict definition of the word; rather, we are cautioned not to become drunkards.
I believe that the main thrust of the Ephesians passage is the positive, and not the negative admonition. We are encouraged to explore and expand into other areas of joy-filled experience facilitated by God's Spirit. We are encouraged to find pleasure and rest by engaging in music and in worship.
When properly utilized,
alcohol is seen throughout scripture as a blessing. For example, here in the Psalms:
"You cause the grass to grow for the livestock
and plants for man to cultivate,
that he may bring forth food from the earth
and wine to gladden the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine
and bread to strengthen man's heart."
- Psalm 104:14-15
And, again, here in the prophets:
"Then Ephraim shall become like a mighty warrior,
and their hearts shall be glad as with wine.
Their children shall see it and be glad;
their hearts shall rejoice in the Lord."
- Zechariah 10:7
There have been times of stress and pain when I have personally found that an appropriate quantity of alcohol was just the right prescription for easing the pain, relieving the stress, and providing me with much needed rest and relief for a time. I recall a period of time when I was facing the wrath of the beast in a court case, during which nothing but sleep and alcohol provided relief from the incredible stress.
It is not my intention to minimize the risk.
In particular, certain individuals may literally be genetically predisposed to addictive behaviors. When it comes to alcohol, and the last thing I desire is to cause such a person to stumble. My point is simply that I don't see scripture as presenting us with any "law" or "limit" on the use of alcohol, other than an admonition to great individual caution and responsibility in its use.
Personal responsibility is essential.
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What's your position on alcohol?
More "liberal" than mine?
More "conservative" than Lydon's?
Have you given any thought to why you hold your position?
I think this is a healthy discussion to have.
Let us hear your viewpoint in the comments.
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My very religious brother, who used to have no problem consuming beer and other 'light' liquor on occasion, fairly recently stopped. He won't even drink at family gatherings or private events. His reasoning is that he does not want to be a hypocrite, and wants to be a light to others who are stumbling. He wants to avoid leading others into temptation, whether he knows them or not.
My position, religious angles notwithstanding, is that each man ought to be responsible for his own self. If I know a man has a problem with alcohol, I will certainly not consume in front of him. But I'm not going to abstain completely in the event someone might randomly see me drinking and cause himself to stumble, or to call me a hypocrite for not standing by own position to abstain (a position I might have taken for the benefit of others).
I am a homebrewer, and brew my own beer. There's no way I'm not drinking what I create. Sorry :)
Thanks, @negativer, for your very relevant observations.
Common sense, and compassionate courtesy for your fellow man!
I hope the disparity of opinion doesn't overly stress your relationship with your brother.
BTW, I am a "wannabe" homebrewer. I just have too many irons in the fire to actually do it. I have participated in observing and even helping homebrewer friends, however, so I have some grasp of what's involved. Next time I'm on the East Coast, may I stop in to sample your wares? :D
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It's a weird thing, going out to a fancy bar and grill with my brother. 30 beers on tap, and I'm salivating at what new thing I can try. We both order our burgers, and I order my fancy beer. He orders a root beer.
I respect him for it, but we're alone, just two brothers having a burger and a beer, and he still feels compelled to abstain. I don't ever judge a man for his convictions, but I do lament what might be lost as a result.
And yes, any time you might be on the southeastern seaboard, you are welcome to come on by. Currently have a bourbon vanilla porter on tap with nitro, an IPA with New Zealand hops, and in honor of St Patricks Day, an Irish Red.
Those three beers sound fabulous, thanks for allowing me to invite myself... ;) However, I fear that by the time I'm actually in the neighborhood, the options will have changed. :D
I remember days of the tension of always worrying about who might be looking. I've come to believe that the gains from that sort of self-limiting behavior are more than canceled by the losses.
You've got that BVP on nitro? Genius move! I bet that's delicious. Glad to hear you've got the nitro system in action.
It is finally in action :) I'm going to do a post on it eventually, maybe with a video/animated gif of the pouring action. It's mesmerizing.
but... but.... but...
how come @creatr gets an invite and not meeeeeeeeeee. LOL and I'M IN FLORIDA RIGHT NOWWWWWWWWW. (and leaving tomorrow.)
i don't like beer. but i would have liked to squeeze your baby ;) hehehehe
Are you justify?
Alcohol ? Is it good? Flee from it says the Bible
Does it, really? Do you have a specific reference in mind?
The Bible certainly cautions us to not be deceived by it, but it also tells us that God provides it for us for his good purposes. Which you will see if you actually read the article and consider the references.
You can't convince me, alcohol is not good for the body by minister of health , talk of when you are adapted to it
I have a similar background and I was always told to abstain from drinking alcohol. Yet, Paul actually teaches that at times wine is good for our infirmities:
Infirmities describes something that deprives someone of enjoying or accomplishing what they would like to do. It could be a physical illness or it could be just mental stress. In moderation, wine is good for both. Sometimes when I can't sleep well I'll drink wine before bedtime and sleep all night. Also, let's not forget that Jesus provided wine to a wedding- after the rest of the wine had run out.
Good observations, for sure.
Thanks for chiming in.
No don't misquote the Bible , Paul is trying to advice Timothy for the sake of his health not for any other purpose, Timoth is ill by that time
I don't think I misquoted the Bible at all. I agree that Timothy was ill on his stomach at the time, but we aren't told what his other weaknesses are. Take a look at the word Paul uses for "weaknesses" (marked 769). It could be a weakness of body or mind, which is why I included mental stress. I've included the pictures below to show my reasoning.
/DQmXMDC1KJ8ysfhsFbi2mGoxR6CYcMR3d3N2UPNU7Pbb47E/IMG-7529.JPG)
I still disagree, and do you know there is different between now alcohol and that of time of Paul
People can become addicted to just about anything - alcohol, sex, food, shopping... Separation from God (aka sin) will happen when a person takes a good thing and makes it into an ultimate thing. Any good thing can take the rightful place of the God that made all of those things in the first place.
Some of those things are more destructive than others. Some of those things are mostly self destructive, and others have more potential to be very destructive to other people.
I am blessed to be able to freely enjoy alcohol without feeling that i am becoming controlled by it, but I try to be sensitive to those that have to fight that demon. I have plenty of "demons" of my own that I have to fight, that just happens to not be one of them.
And, might I say, now that I have stumbled upon your Library - WOW!!! Incredible work you have done there! That's some impressive stuff.
Thank you, @sminchow, for your spot-on observations. Yes, we humans are capable of idolizing just about anything.
You've spoken words that I could quote directly as my own. Great way to look at it. I too have my own fights in other areas.
Why, thank you so much for the kind compliment! In my spare time I hope to update and upgrade the library, but in the meanwhile, I hope you enjoy browsing it in its current form.
So, how go the efforts to drive Steem to be more main stream - more used day-to-day? And, are you still in a position to be able to offer to trade Steem for fiat $?
I've been interested and investigating crypto for almost a year now, but I still haven't even signed up with any exchange. Part fear of being scammed and part fear of just doing something stupid. Yeah well, I'm an accountant - what can I say? All of the SP I have has been self-generated - using only comments, no original posts, believe it or not. But I think I'm at the point where I'd like to put some of this fiat to work by powering up a bit. Although, it doesn't seem like it would be a good time to be selling Steem, for you, considering that it is currently cratering. It doesn't need to happen now.
Ya know, I grew up in a crazy conservative household and so, yeah, alcohol was/is a big no-no. Now, I've also grown up and discovered that, duh, feminism is a good thing and people wrote the Bible, so being a bad Christian believing in a great, sometimes misinterpreted, God is cool.
I don't think I'll ever personally drink, but it's more for my own personal convictions/beliefs and, I dunno, straight edge punk is where it's at!
Thanks for the read! I think it's better to ask than to blindly follow.
Hey, thanks for stopping by and for your open interaction on the topic.
I'm glad we don't have to be perfect... :D
Same!
@creatr There's a saying that "too much of a thing is bad". I for one believe that moderation is important. Know your drinking capacity and limit and do not exceed it.
Discipline is simply the key.
Agreed!
A great topic you and @lydon.sipe have touched on here.
God doesn't call us into a life of legalism. That's a misconception the world has on Christianity, and unfortunately that includes many Christians as well. We are not bound by the law, but live freely in a life of grace.
I think this is one reason why Romans is my favorite book. Paul explains there that this doesn't mean we just ignore the law (desires of God) and do whatever we want. Many commenters touched on this--your desires changing and aligning with God's, where you just don't find the yearning to do the things you previously did.
I am in agreement with you and lydon. And like @negativer, I also brew.
It's when you allow alcohol to govern your decisions and actions greater than the influence of your Lord that you have fallen into the wrong. Also, when you suffer from alcoholism--or become dependent upon anything--it takes the place of God in your life. In my line of work I see people that live this way often. I don't intend to minimize their struggle, but personal accountability is a central factor. I believe God doesn't just make things happen for you unless you're willing to invest in it yourself as well.
Even Jesus himself said it wouldn't always be easy.
Thanks, @aksounder, for your very comprehensive comments.
This article was originally a direct response to Lydon's article, and after I put so much thought into it I decided that it ought to be an article on its own.
Yes, indeed, apart from the grace of God we would be pretty miserable. Our gratitude for his kind patience with us does motivate us to desire to please him.
I went and read that post by him, and several of his other recent posts.
Indeed it does. And discovering the true joy in knowing him, understanding love, and loving others makes what we thought was enjoyable about sin so obviously weak and temporary.
drinking alcohol is not bad, bad is when alcohol takes you.
Drinking a glass of wine is healthy even for the body, you have several studies that indicate so, if you drink moderately it's okay that you do
Thank you very much dear friend @creatr for allowing us the opinion
I wish you a great day
Thanks, friend, for sharing your views on this.
I hope one day that we may share a glass of wine together! :D
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I was on the phone with mom when I first started reading this. She is a Sinatra fan and would did him up if she could. She laughed at the quote and said it sounded like him.
As for drinking Yes in moderation is good BUT 1)Our bodies are God's temple so we need to treat it accordingly and 2) If my drinking makes a poor example to a non Christian, I have the responsibility to refrain from drinking so to not lead them astray. I am not responsible for their actions and thoughts but I am responsible for the model of a Christian I portray. As for drinking I do some at home as a night cap when my work is done.
Again thanks for your friendship and kindness. I will post more blog on my situation and maybe in poetry soon. Blessing always an admirer of your work. - Troy
Thanks for your observations, Troy. :D
Wow, that is a new one to me. Not drinking grape juice in communion of course, but someone making a case for wine being grape juice.
I applaud your thoughts and well articulated article my friend! Thank you for the kind shout out too! :)
You're welcome, thanks for the inspiration. :)
As you've seen, I have now also written a review of my favorite stage play of all time as well. ;)