Whales No Up-Voting Test

2 months ago
69 in test

Going on.
Let's see how the dolphins and minnows will play.

//Edit: I'm downvoting the posts upvoted by other whales.

//Edit 2: downvoting posts upvoted by the @steemvoter Guild.

//Edit 3: thinking about how to counteract bot voting. Bot voting includes voting for a list of authors and follow voting.

//Edit 4: downvoting @steemtrail. (Edit 10: stopped downvoting)

//Edit 5: downvoting @curie (Edit 10: stopped downvoting)

//Edit 6: some explanations here, thanks for the people who wrote them:
https://steemit.com/steem/@timcliff/the-whale-voting-experiment-explained-including-downvotes-from-abit
https://steemit.com/steemit/@neoxian/the-experiment-communication-required-this-is-a-social-platform

//Edit 7: some related links:

//Edit 8: one more link:

//Edit 9: here is a video: https://steemit.com/live-experiment/@fyrstikken/explaining-the-whale-fasting-experiment

//Edit 10: one more link: https://steemit.com/experiment/@sykochica/experiment-thoughts-and-potential-strategies
And stopped downvoting curie and steemtrail.

//Edit 11: more info:

Authors get paid when people like you upvote their post.
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Sort Order:  trending
70
  ·  2 months ago

What about the reputations of innocent posters that you are downvoting?

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61
  ·  2 months ago

Good comment.
We all have to remember that to the value of the network must be subtracted the number the users that spam, flag and mute. Attracting and retaining augments the value of the network.

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69
  ·  2 months ago

When they got upvoted their rep will increase.
I'm not going to downvote them to zero, so in worst case their rep will still increase some.
If they already have higher rep than me, my downvote won't affect their rep at all.

//Edit: just noticed that people who got bot voting from @wang and @created and perhaps some other bots wound't get an increment of rep score, so will be hurt somehow by downvoting. I guess it's not a big deal..

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62
  ·  2 months ago

What about those of us who havr earned backing by sacrificing for the last 3 years for the community that made steemit even possible? Do i deserve you to downvote my work that FINALLY can get paid for?

This, abit, is a terrible experiment.

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68
  ·  2 months ago

I respect your choice and I understand what you're trying to accomplish @abit but I want to take the time to share my thoughts on this.

It seems like the distribution of Steem is going well and is mostly done through the sell of Steem. Around $122,211 worth of Steem has been transacted in the last 24h. The daily author reward pool is worth only $4,324 if sold on Poloniex. (thanks to @inertia's bot for the info) The price of Steem has been going down lately thus the biggest losers are those who own the most Steem. With your experiment you will indiscriminately further put the larger Steem holder with author skills at a disadvantage.

I worked probably close to 20 hours on my next post and I put in more than 10 hours on almost all my chapters. I don't post that often. Usually when I do I get great rewards because I put a lot of time and thoughts into my posts. Not only in the redacting part but I spend all my life teaching myself about everything I could.

At first I thought this experiment might be a great experiment but after further consideration I doubt it. I don't post for the rewards yet like fuzzy I have spend a lot of time learning about crypto and that's one of the reason I and some of us were on Steem very early. I have spent the time, effort and taken the financial risk to be where I am now with the Steem I own. Most people on Steem haven't read the whitepaper once, haven't heard of Bitcoin before and it's okay. They are rarely the largest Steem holders for good reasons.

Money isn't the primary motivation for me and this will clearify in my next post but I need money to be able to advance my primary goal. I will uphold my next post in the hope this experiment will be stop soon. I hope you will consider removing your downvote if you were to realize that they didn't accomplished what you intended them to.

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71
  ·  2 months ago

@teamsteem - the experiment does not take away any rewards from the reward pool. The platform will still pay authors the same amount regardless of the upvotes/downvotes from whales. All this experiment is doing is changing who gets to decide on the reward allocation. By the whales not voting (or being canceled out by other whales downvotes) then the dolphins and minnows will be the ones influencing the rewards.

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72
  ·  2 months ago

All this experiment is doing is changing who gets to decide on the reward allocation.

Yes - and that person is primarily abit. This "experiment" is severely flawed. Any "data" gathered from it will be worthless.

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68
  ·  2 months ago

I never said the experiment takes away from the reward pool. I'm not sure if you misread me or I badly expressed myself. I know how the reward pool works.

The point I made with the reward pool is that the % of total number of Steem people own are being influence more by the day to day selling and buying of Steem than by the number of Steem being distributed by the reward pool.

Also you commented below:

"With the whale votes removed, users who are receiving lots of votes from dolphins will now be favored for higher payouts." @timcliff

@ats-david ansered.

"That's only true if the downvotes are equivalent to the whale upvotes. But that doesn't appear to be the case." @ats-david

You answered

"I do agree that is how it should be done. That is something the individual voters who are downvoting should address." @timcliff

Also not all whale's votes are being cancelled either.

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63
  ·  2 months ago

@abit You're sick .... groomed, call a doctor ....

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68
  ·  2 months ago

Being condescending towards someone isn't a positive to anyone. We all been condescending toward someone at some point but we should strive for better. Have a nice day @sardrt!

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63
  ·  2 months ago

Speak for yourself ... I'm not condescending with anyone ... Good night @teamsteem

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59
  ·  last month

can you try a best of three, I get it it's not your day and you are mad, still why say you aren't speaking down on anybody when you are, I'm sure there are many others that are sick and is some strange way abit seems to be the one with the doctor outfit :)

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64
  ·  2 months ago

Is there evidence to support that the whales are already voting less.
My metric is 0 payout posts in cashout, it appears that there are less.
I was figuring that was whale shame, is it not?

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71
  ·  2 months ago

The amount that the platform pays out will still stay the same, even if none of the whales vote. The only difference is that instead of whale upvotes dictating where the majority of rewards are allocated, it will be decided by the votes of the dolphins and minnows. With the absence of whale upvotes, the upvotes from dolphins and minnows will now have a lot more influence.

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64
  ·  2 months ago

Right, instead of the .01% sucking it up and doling it out to their preferred content providers it gives everybody at the bottom a chance at a payout the moves the UI.

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57
  ·  2 months ago

Now if only more people understood that, then that would be awesome. This test is to take control away from the huge whales and distribute rewards more fairly. Hang in everyone....this will be worth it.

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71
  ·  2 months ago

Yep, exactly!

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65
  ·  2 months ago

If the intention is to reduce the voting power of users with SP, then there is little incentive to hold SP and surely the whales will begin to power down further driving down the price.
In that scenario why not just hold your value as STEEM you get little benefit for holding SP? (I know you get a bit of the daily reward pool but not much else)

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71
  ·  2 months ago

It is just an experiment. Obviously if anything long term is to be done, more would need to be done to address the 'fairness' and gaming aspects of it.

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66
  ·  2 months ago

Really? do something productive.

68
  ·  2 months ago

I think this is a pretty interesting experiment, actually. And it's only for a few days, and those few days can provide us with some data that can help future decision making.

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68
  ·  2 months ago

I agree @schattenjaeger - data pool is important to make sure minnows and all users can fly :-)!

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72
  ·  2 months ago

Wait a second here...

Does this image imply that it's possible to milk a dolphin?

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68
  ·  2 months ago

almost - see you can think out of the usual silo but no @ats-david :-)

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67
  ·  2 months ago

Agreed. Already we can see that the rewards are being distributed more evenly. Not saying that it should be, but it's interesting to see the 1% Winfrey guild having impact. We can also see that some people are adamantly against down votes while others are adamantly against experimenting lol.

Not only will the data be interesting, but for a few days dolphins get to feel what's is like to be a whale... And when that gets taken away... Who knows... Maybe there'll be increased demand for steem power!

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59
  ·  last month

hahaha yeah we can always get some data, maybe even see how much the public opinion of abit changes :D how much people are happier with steemit, how many are mad all fun metrics, if we can get all that juicy data mined right from the steemin blockchain :) and it gives material to you and stellabelle so we can all laugh at the experiments in a week :D probably

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67
  ·  last month

Lol. Should I take that as sarcasm?

56
  ·  2 months ago

Please stop downvoting #BitShares related stuff.
You're demotivating active community members
You're hurting reputation
As active Witness this behavior is totally inappropriate.

Thank you

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62
  ·  2 months ago

Wow exactly @vato. Sad that abit doesnt realize the psychological DISINCENTIVE he is creating among the most loyal posters and backers of this tech.

If it persists I WILL be starting a campaign to rid abit of his witness. If THIS is how he chooses to use his witness funding, he doesnt need a witness.

59
  ·  2 months ago

sooooooooo that is why my vote finally made a cent :D I was wondering why the madness had happened. :D Thought I was mad :D

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59
  ·  2 months ago

I can see the trend page is quite shocked, there is only one "high" payout above 50 ATM, I was used to seeing posts measure up to 20/50/100 and maybe one or a few at 150-200 but this is strange, very, payouts are 50 20 10 5 2 2 2 :D I suppose more is being transacted around but I do miss the whale votes :D I can see some people are already annoyed. It's ok I suppose since I don't mind it, but as I've said before I don't like the @ snowflake idea and I used to like abit more when he was supporting comments :D I wonder how this will affect curation rewards and I hope many people don't get phased by it, we should have thicker skins and weather such storms, people have been getting triggered left and right these past few weeks.

I'm out for now, still haven't read your post, but I w interested when it was posted. I don't like the idea off the headline, I think curation rewards should go to the people and power to the investors as i is :) (or as it is supposed to be but not quite) I think curation should be a way to power up and investors should be the most helpful to the growth of the community, therefore the most power and stake, acting when necessary, I like parts of the snowflake proposals, but I think minds already exists and we shouldn't downright dismantle the main features of steemit, whatever separates us from the other platforms should be used and fun to be used :)
I'm off :| :| :|

Cheers mate :)

72
  ·  2 months ago

So @abit gets to dictate who is allowed to curate or earn rewards for their posts? And how long will this be going on?

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67
  ·  2 months ago

Lol. Now you sound like krnel.

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59
  ·  last month

is that bad?

58
  ·  2 months ago

If a Dolphin or minnow wants more influence then they should buy some SP, or use the platform and blog to become a whale. End of story. Count me out of your games, I will continue to vote how I please. I upvote based on attention given (time) by author and quality of content created. @abit

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68
  ·  2 months ago

A downvote was applied to partially counter earlier whale votes as an experiment to reduce whale domination of voting influence. Not intended to express an opinion on the content nor result in a net reduction of rewards or reputation (automated notice)

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59
  ·  last month

what is the point of a automated notice, it's just like YouTube taking away monetary rewards from ads, until further notice.

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68
  ·  last month

First, I stopped the notices as a lot of people found them too spammy. Second, no one is taking away rewards like youtube not paying, although I reocognize there are some misunderstandings. In fact all the same rewards are being paid out but it is done so on the basis of votes from far more people rather than just a few dozen whales. I hope this helps clear up any misunderstanding about the nature of the voting system. Please don't be misled by a few people with a vested interest in supporting whale-dominated voting practices.

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59
  ·  last month

oh please don't misunderstand me, I'm all for a more engaged not voteboting reward based "social" media. I have no problem with the experiments I just see the effect and give my 2 cents, if you want feel free to check my post on the matter.

I think I have a firm grasp on how things run here, I've been online for a long time compared to most months of real activity is a lot in my view. It's still nice to get a 20 upvote because of some whale domination, there are too many problems to name and I hope we can pick the right solutions, hopefully this experiment doesn't stain the people too much, I'm just saying when the memes come they don't stop easy.

Last time there was a "war" I was hoping that a resolution might come about and I found it very interesting with the way krnel took the conversation, still, bernie for instance couldn't bother to even look and just memed away. It's about profits and whining. I think it's time we start working towards solutions. I hope this is worth it, since I think it will drive down the activity of the established users and not do much for the newcomers since it won't last long, guilds, bots and all are all good ideas, maybe not in their current form tho, I would much rather see a communication going around rather than just trailing bots at 1% :D

I'm not sure I'm being led anywhere I like staying in one place enjoying the show. IF profits roll in great, if not oh well, :D I'm not one to focus on menial tasks. Like posting four times a day :D and not commenting so I can get more posts. Anyways I'm trailing off, thank you for responding, I hope yu get some data to back up your "damages" bring in that 5$ price per steem :D

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69
  ·  2 months ago

You're a whale, so on my list.
I'm not arguing about whether it's good for people to "buy influence".

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58
  ·  2 months ago

Fair enough brother. Take care.

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69
  ·  2 months ago

Keep up the good fight!!

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71
  ·  2 months ago

@thejohalfiles you bought STEEM with your money to have vote power over the platform, use your votes how you wish since they belong to you

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70
  ·  2 months ago

Thank you for this.

71
  ·  2 months ago

How can dolphins or minnows play when you downvote everybody with 100%?

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62
  ·  2 months ago

No kings crown. Its only the dolphins who get support from a "whale" (no definition of whalr apparently required).

But...if you have 50 dolphin accounts that whale is powered down into, you are GOOD TO GO BABY! Abit (and apparently a bunch of other whales) ONLY wants to punish those with support from single accounts with large payouts. Get your sock puppets ready!!

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64
  ·  2 months ago

Allowing 'sharing' of sp is only going to make this worse, imo.
The guilds will be institutionalized after the community clearly downvoted them.

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62
  ·  2 months ago

Im working on something that will help...and will incentivize whales to stop powering down and start temporarily giving voting power to guilds of people.

And we will have a show as well around it. The main goal will be to gain backing from ANYONE with SP and leverage it to give recources to those who rise above the rest.

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64
  ·  2 months ago

Picking winners IS the problem.

Banding together to pick winners travels through Moscow, to D.C., to Beijing, do you like how the world is being managed?
The 1% sucking up half the wealth to give to their winners while everybody else lives in poverty?

Banding together for power is bad when the crips do it, it is bad when steemizens do it, too.

Vote what you got, make your opinion known, but don't band together with your sycophants to rule the world,....please.

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62
  ·  2 months ago

You will see it is nothing like what u are thinking. And that means you didny even read what i said.

The simple fact is that in the early stages of a platform or ANY business...control is centralized into the hands of the people who know the business.

You should really search for asshole whales. Im not one of them.

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71
  ·  2 months ago

This sounds really cool! Can't wait to hear more :)

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64
  ·  2 months ago

Ok, give me your perspective, I obviously only see mine.

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64
  ·  last month

Your silence, and deflective ad hominem, are allowing my imagination to run wild.
I hope you make your position known to me, or I will have no choice but to think what I think you think,....

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62
  ·  last month

Probably best. I need to prove nothing to you. Im too busy helping the platform to prove myself to every new player who has no idea about me.

I dont expect you to but neither do I see this as a good use of my time. All ill say is people will see.

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59
  ·  last month

this does sound interesting could you keep me posted please :) I tend to miss out and with everything going around I'm sure I can't get past my 100 tabs and all the posts being thrown each day. I gave you a follow but I will miss your post 90% :D so please keep me posted :D

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64
  ·  2 months ago

Got my thousands of accounts ready to go @fuzzyvest! Been waiting for this! :D

69
  ·  2 months ago

I do love a good experiment but the negative consequences to downvotes has been discussed & argued ad nauseum. That being said, I'm not one to say this is good or bad but there are a few things I'd like to know:

  • how long will this experiment last?
  • which whales agreed to withhold upvoting?
  • which whales are assigned to downvoting (in case a whale didn't get the memo or decided to ignore the experiment).
  • Was the community at large informed prior to the experiment?

The last question is more important to me because honestly, I would volunteer for this experiment. I'll take a couple of flags for the sake of seeing how the payouts are affected -- but I would also allow content contributors the option of taking a day off from posting and seeing how our upvotes affect newbies. The key is ASKING for volunteers. I can't be the only one who'd raise my hand for a flag.

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71
  ·  2 months ago

Hi @merej99 - great questions! I'd like to know a lot of the same things. I did create this post with what I do know about the experiment. Hopefully it should at least clarify some of it :)

https://steemit.com/steem/@timcliff/the-whale-voting-experiment-explained-including-downvotes-from-abit

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69
  ·  2 months ago

Thanks, @timcliff - I'm going to check it out right now.
I've noticed a few more accounts doing mass downvotes on posts and comments now. Kind of makes me wonder what's in the kool-aid today.

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71
  ·  2 months ago

My 2 posts of the day have all been mass flagged too :)

The whales that are participating in the experiment are trying to cancel out the votes of the whales that are not participating. Unless all of the whales abstain from voting (or are canceled out) then the experiment doesn't work.

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63
  ·  2 months ago

Even the Nazis were doing experiments without saying anything to their guinea pigs ..

54
  ·  2 months ago

This should create @abit of drama. :) Here is your meaningless drama coin.

65
  ·  2 months ago

This will be an interesting experiment not so much from the side of what will the minnows vote for, but rather from the type of content authors who choose to continue to produce content make? Consider content has been long influenced by what whales upvote.

That being said, I don't see how this experiment does not cause more authors to withhold creating content. Authors who have implicit or explicit whale support will (undoubtedly) refuse to release any content for fear of the flag and the rep damage. That leaves the whales with no "default" options, so by that very fact, they will begin selecting other content from authors they would not normally consider. I'd be curious to see when these authors get hit with a full power flag, if they continue to produce content. I would suggest the answer would be they will not, and authors will either withhold or leave.

What would be something interesting to change the nature of the experiment would be to not touch authors whales have not upvoted before. Something like that could change the flavor of content produced in Steemit, the type of content which hits the trending page and the authors who will be there regularly.

I have radically scaled back how much content I produce and increased my comments and interaction, so I've no dog in the fight.

61
  ·  2 months ago

Steemit is now a personal playground for some of the powerful, nothing more to do it blogging or voting, bloggers and curators are just puppets or guinea pigs for testing, not people anymore.
This shows about the disruptive strategies on steemit that will kill it and in the avalanche itwill take the disrupters with it.
Just lost my Reputation don't care about money at all.
Please show your power and silence me totally to show how things work here.
Inside censorship is totally evident, in a place where we are avoiding outside censorship.
Run for your lives because this is guerilla warfare.

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59
  ·  last month

you do sound a lot like @ skeptic and @ iloveupvotes there are a lot of "dust" accounts floating around :|

I do hope all the "wars" stop but people shouldn't take a platform s seriously, imagine getting unfriended in facebook to zero, so what :D are they really your friends, if you are valuable you will be upvoted and your reputation will only decrease for a short time, so what, are numbers that important, sure it's fucking annoying to get trashed around, but learn from it, plus it's not like we have done anything helpful staying here pushing buttons and bots around :D

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61
  ·  last month

My friend I do look like myself , I'm not carrying any group's message or affiliation.
It's not about Reputation or Money, I don't care about that, I just feel that no system of governance can use their Power to experiment with their citizens.
Every time this happens in History it has a sad end

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59
  ·  last month

yup well it'a "decentralized" system so you are just getting a bad feudal lord and being a part of a war you didn't vouch for, nothing to see move along :|

yeah I know, very medieval in character. I get annoyed with people, sorry to take it out on you. It just proves how bad it feels to get fucked with. Anyways experiments can't last long, it's not productive and is unsustainable, maybe check stellabelle and beanz for the votu podcast and the hotline from stella :D

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61
  ·  last month

Well, my friend, we have to fight for the dream to became Reality. :)
The blockchain can't be the same Reign of Fear, normal society is today.
The problem is that some people that have Power start using and abusing Authority as it usually happens when there are material things involved. :(
And above all the fights for Power use the people as Pawns and everybody should be aware of this.
The ones that paid for Steemit to happen (they are right to be angry) but I don't see them all going around and "cutting people's heads".
I think investors should be fighting for consensus between them otherwise, everybody loses, steemit, steemians, and "governance".
In my view, the blockchain is an "engine room", a technological infrastructure that can be used in the future to provide an environment for a better world where everybody can be heard and take ownership of their destiny in their hands, without the interference of chiefs or politicians.

"When rich people fight wars with one another, poor people are the ones to die." - Jean-Paul Sartre

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59
  ·  last month

yeah we have all that history for something, the problem is people are too young in their mind and lack the connections between each other. You can see divides even here, even the two man team that started this is no long there. So far we need to support both and support each other :D too much maybe. But I have my hopes and I would like them to turn up into something :D

  • btw the whole "experiment" is just as bad as I had thought, they even took their time I joked before it happened :D a week prior, snowflake took it quite literally, I'm not sure people here have the understanding and empathy to actually create that nice place and community that we can say "here we have it, we made it it works :) feel free :)" maybe one day :)

here is a cheer :)

Alexi Murdoch - Blue Mind

70
  ·  2 months ago

Fascinating. Bring on the excitement!!!

In fact i just upvoted a post and gave it five cents. I am positively orca-ish!!

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67
  ·  2 months ago

Interesting.

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69
  ·  2 months ago

I noticed that with a few of my upvotes too. It was kind of cool to see the monetary value jump, especially since I'm still a baby dolphin. BUT I completely know how disheartening a downvote is for the sake of an experiment. On the other hand, this entire platform is a grand experiment.

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70
  ·  2 months ago

I can understand particularly now the pain of an downvote as rewards seem to be getting smaller too. But as you say. It's all an experiment . What if through something like this everything got changed up and all of us started to be able to affect a reward by five or more cents it could change the whole dynamic

68
  ·  2 months ago

And you tell me this is a test lol??

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72
  ·  2 months ago

Not all the donkeys have left yet. :)

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68
  ·  2 months ago

correct

67
  ·  2 months ago

This is a test - it is only a test. If there was a real emergency you would be given instruction.....

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64
  ·  2 months ago

Lovely reply @whatsup.

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67
  ·  2 months ago

Not sure if it was lovely, but thank you! grins.

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62
  ·  2 months ago

A failed test that only required some actual deep THOUGHT into the simple game theory behind its premise for it to be (rightfully) killed before it could grow into a real life rapist.

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67
  ·  2 months ago

When I made that comment, I had no idea about the flagging. There wasn't any "Edit" yet. Yikes, I see what he might be trying to do, but the victims never enjoy this.

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62
  ·  2 months ago

The simple fact is that what he is trying to do could EASILY be done by tweaking some of the chains variables...or better yet maybe he could use some of that $100+k he made from SELLING STEEM (and putting downward pressure on the price) toward BUILDING A SOLUTION...like i have done with nearly all my far smaller 25k+ earned. I guess its just easier to flag people for f******g misuse of the platform. When its not deserved.

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69
  ·  2 months ago

EASILY

It IS easy to modify the code, for example to use another curve. It's not easy to make that decision. You're not a witness. Try influence the devs, convince them to code your ideas.

some of that $100+k he made from SELLING STEEM

This is trolling. Data please.

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62
  ·  2 months ago

I know how much you have man and how much ive made (and spent to build stuff). Dont try to tell me you havent AT LEAST made that because ive made and spent over 25k in total...maybe more, for tools to fix these problems to be built. But this is beside the point. The point remains that the way you and others unleashed this caused Damage when it COULD have been fruitful.

Wth are you trying to measure anyway? I dont say this to be a dick. I say it because if its an experiment it is a terribly constructed and executed one.

Btw, id love to be a witness. Let me get one up and running. Its far easier than writing posts. A slight learning curve but no worse than learning markup. Would u upvote one if i asked you? Or have i made you hate me? Lol..

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59
  ·  last month

another fine soul :D

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67
  ·  last month

hihihihihihi

63
  ·  2 months ago

If this will help steemit, so be it
But i think if you or any dev elaborate more about what happening and why? That will be more helpful.
By the way i upvoted your blog and it seems that my vote have slightly more value than usual
Thanks in advance

71
  ·  2 months ago

at what SP whale starts officialy ?

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69
  ·  2 months ago

Nothing official.
All subjective.

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71
  ·  2 months ago

Like top25 aka first page of http://steemwhales.com/?p=1&s=total maybe ?

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69
  ·  2 months ago

Not only those.

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72
  ·  2 months ago

Its an arbitrary list? Why did you choose this arbitrary list? Wat was the reason for making this choice arbitrarily? How does it HELP the giald of your "experiment"?

Hint: if u cant answer with anything but "its all subjective" you have failed already.

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72
  ·  2 months ago

Hint: if u cant answer with anything but "its all subjective" you have failed already.

Exactly. There's no point to an "experiment" if you have no parameters and just make shit up as you go.

For example: the edits to this post where he now wants to consider "countering" bots and trails. Good luck with that, considering that's how most of the votes are cast on this platform. The active human user base is pretty small.

What is the point of this "experiment" again? To show us what we already know about removing selected stake from the voting equation? Fantastic! That was already known when the blockchain was designed.

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72
  ·  last month

"Just not sure what's the bottom line"

errrrg abit >.<
please lets do this right??

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69
  ·  2 months ago

The highest SP holders first, then the lower ones.. Just not sure what's the bottom line. So, testing.

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72
  ·  2 months ago

THEN WHAT ARE YOU MEASURING abit?

Wtf is this study really accomplishing if you DIDNT CARE to even establish wtf u are measuring????

57
  ·  2 months ago

Maybe it whale be a fluke and make us all steem? Blub-blub... :)

70
  ·  2 months ago

Interesting! Is this a confirmed experiment?

@kus-knee (The Old Dog)

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59
  ·  last month

yup abit is the chef responsible for the menu, so it's confirmed because it's been going on for days, is it a good idea and as it been implemented correctly, maybe not so much. So it's not a official experiment from steeminc that would sound a bit stupid :D

65
  ·  2 months ago

@dan is determined to ruin your test

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68
  ·  2 months ago

What has he done @felixxx ? Oh damn I read your text again - bad me

63
  ·  2 months ago

Thanks for your downvote! all in drugs and doctors!

66
  ·  2 months ago

I'm confused, but if this is a test or an experiment, ok, I'm curious to observe the results ^_^

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66
  ·  2 months ago

@timcliff I read all the posts you're linking, but thanks to share them , maybe they can be helpful for some people here ^_^

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63
  ·  2 months ago

Non mi sembra proprio un test @silviabeneforti il mio post è passato da 9 dollari a 0.7 sinceramente mi sembra una cosa da deficienti...

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66
  ·  2 months ago

argh... orca loca, praticamente il 99%! Il mio riferimento al test è in merito al post, stanno sperimentando quanto può pesare in più rispetto al solito il peso di delfini e acciughe se le balene non votano i post. Il problema è uno: se ci fosse coesione tra loro nessuno vedrebbe abbassare il proprio payout in questo esperimento, invece così qualcuno vota e le altre balene gli annullano il voto downvotando.

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54
  ·  2 months ago

Per ora non mi sembra che il mio voto di minuscolo pesciolino sia aumentato di influenza...

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66
  ·  2 months ago

Se il test funziona io son più che contenta, non te lo nascondo. Credo che il problema sia la "comunicazione" interna. Le persone che si son viste decurtare improvvisamanete il payout senza sapere il perchè sono comprensibilmente e umanamente perplesse. Abit, se non altro, ha dichiarato che sta testando la cosa, per questo ha sicuramente il mio rispetto, resta il fatto che se in una community si procede a fare test di grossa portata senza veicolare informazioni, il minimo che ci si può aspettare è che gli users si sentano come cavie da laboratorio ;)

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54
  ·  2 months ago

Se ho capito bene e' come se ti avesse tolto il voto di tombstone (whale).
E' normale che post con 100 voti non arrivino a raggiungere un dollaro di ricompensa, a meno che non ci siano voti di balene o balenottere.

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63
  ·  2 months ago

Ciao @bnoise io mi chiedo per quanto tempo vogliono fare questo stupido esperimento.. Roba da matti...sono solo invidie

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54
  ·  2 months ago

Credo almeno 24 ore, per vedere una nuova trending page fatta da pesci piccoli invece che da balene.
L'esperimento è interessante e il linea di massima tutto Steemit è soggetto a esperimenti e cambiamenti repentini, c'é scritto sopra Beta quindi per me non ha senso sperare in guadagni stabili o comportamenti prevedibili.
L'esperimento poteva essere gestito meglio sicuramente nella comunicazione e probabilmente anche nella pratica.
Poi capisco l'aspetto psicologico negativo di prendere un grosso flag, ma si trascura che il grosso flag arriva dopo un grosso upvote. L'esperimento consiste nel togliere i grossi voti, se riesce le ricompense saranno dello stesso importo di prima ma saranno piú democratiche (del tipo che 200 voti ti daranno il circa il doppio di 100 voti, non come adesso).
In definitiva non vedo problemi nell'esperimento in sé, si dà temporaneamente piú potere ai nuovi utenti, non meno.

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63
  ·  2 months ago

Io trovo che dare un grosso flag senza fare una valutazione qualitativa del post sia un errore enorme e nasconde invidia e voglia di farsi notare. Alle cavie poi si deve chiedere il consenso. Sono sicura che i loro "amici" non saranno interessati dall'esperimento.. Comunque aspetto che finisca questo delirio

59
  ·  2 months ago

Hi there @abit i guess the purpose if this test is to measure how would be (the system) without whales votes? something like, testing the "lower voting power" users? Please correct me if I'm wrong but would be nice to know the purpose of such test

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69
  ·  2 months ago

Yes. If it's not that, could be something like that.

66
  ·  2 months ago

which is the purpose of the test? I mean, can this be significant of the voting weight of not-whales if used behaviors are not changed? It take times to change behaviors and expections, I believe.

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69
  ·  2 months ago

can this be significant of the voting weight of not-whales if used behaviors are not changed?

I'm not sure. So it's testing. Let's see.

It take times to change behaviors and expections, I believe.

Agree.

66
  ·  2 months ago

@abit Just to know: how much time the test will run (there is a deadline)? This test involves all posts without exceptions or it's random?

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69
  ·  2 months ago

I hope I can check as many posts as I can.
In regards to time/deadline .. I don't know yet.
Thanks.

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66
  ·  2 months ago

Thanks for the reply, @abit

69
  ·  2 months ago

Thanks for opening a new challenge! Can't see these donkeys anymore 🙄

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68
  ·  2 months ago

Außer meinem hoffe ich doch @surfermarly :-)

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69
  ·  2 months ago

LOL :) Sind die nicht alle gleich?

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68
  ·  2 months ago

nee - meiner ist witzig :-) aber ich versteh Dich, wollte Start Foto ein anderes nehmen (ändere ich auch gleich) - dann sieht es im Newsfeed etwas "differenzierter" aus

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72
  ·  2 months ago

LOL...God its good to see people who dontnhave theirnheads in their asses

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67
  ·  2 months ago

Did anyone set a soul stone?

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64
  ·  2 months ago

I don't agree, but upvoted because that was funny as hell 😂

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66
  ·  2 months ago

hahaha! love it!!

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67
  ·  2 months ago

God Damn It Leroy!

65
  ·  2 months ago

lol what happened?

59
  ·  last month

What is the duration of the experiment? How long will it last? thanks

55
  ·  2 months ago

Does this mean that @abit is the new @asshole?

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69
  ·  2 months ago

apparently, @asshole doesn't agree with you... lol

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55
  ·  2 months ago

On the contrary I think he agrees, he only downvotes what he likes.

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69
  ·  2 months ago

that's an interesting point! btw, I only upvotes what I likes. :)

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55
  ·  2 months ago

And that's why he is the @asshole.

69
  ·  2 months ago

interesting

61
  ·  2 months ago

Minnows make abit their hero. I knew it! Not all whales are bad!!!! Thank you abit!
DistinctScrawnyElver.gif

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72
  ·  2 months ago

Wow...just wow. This makes him a hero? Because it helps you no doubt.

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61
  ·  2 months ago

I'm a minnow that is so confussed about some of these whales downvoting dolphins and minnows. I am new here and none of this helps me. I have to get bits an pieces to this insane war and some whales don't want that. I've been downvoted by 5 whales on one post that wasn't even making a dollar. Thank goodness most of the community doesn't act this way!!!!!!!!! Wondering why the price is going down?

53
  ·  2 months ago

I hope it will be fine, and all that happened was a misunderstanding. @abit

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72
  ·  2 months ago

A misunderstanding or lack of understanding? I believe #2

69
  ·  2 months ago

I'd been finding rewards were down, but let's see how it goes.

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71
  ·  2 months ago

The amount of rewards will not go down. The platform will pay out the same amount of rewards regardless of how many whales vote. If the whales don't vote, then the votes from the dolphins and minnows will have a lot more weight.

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63
  ·  2 months ago

My reward has gone from $ 9 to 0.7 ... Thanks @abit I repeat, sought a good doctor ...

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71
  ·  2 months ago

With the whale votes removed, users who are receiving lots of votes from dolphins will now be favored for higher payouts.

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72
  ·  2 months ago

That's only true if the downvotes are equivalent to the whale upvotes. But that doesn't appear to be the case.

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71
  ·  2 months ago

I do agree that is how it should be done. That is something the individual voters who are downvoting should address.

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69
  ·  2 months ago

That assumes that no whales vote. Are they all in on this? It would be good to see smaller players having more say in the rewards.

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71
  ·  2 months ago

I don't know all of the details, but I believe that enough whales are participating for it to work. If there are whales that still vote, their votes can be canceled out by other whales who vote the opposite.

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69
  ·  2 months ago

That's cool. It will be interesting to see what difference this makes.

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62
  ·  2 months ago

What most people fail to realize is that some of us have lots of influence (and whalevotes) because we put 3 years of hard (and often costly) work and sacrifice into supporting the tech that made steem even possible! When others left, WE sacrificed and many times even paid large sums out of pocket.

Apparently that means I unfairly have too much support and should be downvoted/flagged for my LEGITIMATE work!? Hint...some of us intentionally chose not to have a witness in steem. Whilr some of us run a witness and decide to use their sp to screw those who are literally at the foundation of steems very existence.

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69
  ·  2 months ago

I certainly didn't expect overnight riches. I believe in the technology and want to see it succeed. You early adopters helped it get started.

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62
  ·  2 months ago

Oh i know man. Its just that abit really has cut my pay here substantially with his little (ill thought) "experiment".

What most people dont know is that i have paid nearly all my earnings toward building tools for steem and bitshares to use to the benefit of both...just doing blanket flagging of legitimate posts and work because its "unfair" newbies arent paid anywhere near what im paid (after 3 years of largely unpaid work mind u) is definitely not the answer.

You will build a following who will support you over time. Dont worry about that. But i guess YOU DO have to worry about someone who has a witness and never has to write posts to earn steem coming in and saying "you dont deserve all this support" and stomping on your face with a shit-covered boot...because they have no clue what its like to actually build such a following.

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59
  ·  2 months ago

Upvoted and following. Their is good thoughts in that fuzzyvest

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71
  ·  2 months ago

(replying here due to nesting)

The idea behind the experiment is to see what happens if the whales don't vote, and the voting is left up to the dolphins and minnows.

I believe they have been trying to privately talk to as many whales as possible, so everyone is aware and in agreement, but obviously they either have not talked to you in private yet, or they did and you didn't agree.

If all the whales are not "playing along" then the experiment doesn't work. Due to the n^2 algorithm, it would just give a ton more influence to the whales still voting, and the dolphins/minnows would still have no say. Based on this, I think the plan is to 'cancel' any whales who are still voting through downvotes.

At the end of the day, it is just an experiment. The plan is not to make it permanent, and the whales can chose to end it at any time.

You don't seem to agree with it, but personally I am very thankful to the whales for doing this. IMO, the distribution of stake is one of the biggest issues right now, and if we don't find some resolution to it, then the value of everyone's stake goes down. The 'experiment' is obviously not going to be the final solution to the problem, but the fact that they are trying to come up with a solution is a very good thing IMO.

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61
  ·  2 months ago

Experiments with people's feelings.
Nice for posterity of Steemit.

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62
  ·  2 months ago

The funny thing is...i am easy to reach and am one of the people who has been around since day one. Abit knows how to reach me and NEVER did he even try. Instead...my post about the VALUE of steem being in its censorship resistance and the easily 15-20 hours of time spent promoting steem behind the scenes is SHAT on...

Any way this is cut...it was a terrible plan and terrible execution.

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71
  ·  2 months ago

Replying here due to nesting.

My support really has nothing to do with witness votes. I have been discussing changes with many people in the community to look for ways to balance out the interests of the original stake-holders, with those of growing the platform to scale to billions of users. It is widely agreed to by most people in the community that the distribution of stake is one of the bigger issues holding the platform back from growth.

You can read some of my views on the subject here:
https://steemit.com/steem/@timcliff/whales-can-the-community-buy-out-a-portion-of-your-influence

Also, this is not just @abit's initiative. It was discussed among many of the whales, and there seems to be a majority consensus behind it.

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62
  ·  2 months ago

The majority consensus to flag people with whale accounts who gain support of whales?

Ok so what happens when a bunch of "whales" just power down into 100 small dolphin accounts and start upvoting things? Where does this madness stop?

The problem with steem isnt the distribution at this early stage. Its that we have groups of whales who decide its a good idea to start MISUSING the flagging feature of steem!

This is ridiculous. The system at present is FINE. Steem has been ive for less than 1 year in Beta!

The way to fix steem is to actually change the N^2 aspect of rewards, not to flag peoples content! There is historically consensus on killing poor jews too...

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64
  ·  2 months ago

I find myself on your side, downvoting is more than just taking rewards, it hurts feelings, and that can't be measured in usd.

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62
  ·  2 months ago

It honestly is the only thing that makes sense. Im glad to hear you are thinking rationally. Maybe you should run for witness. I think its unfair witnesses are paid because they dont even post to blogs to earn their funds! (Joking...but u can see how quickly idiotic, unchecked reasoning gets out of hand).

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71
  ·  2 months ago

I don't really think that is what this is trying to accomplish. I agree that the early adopters earned the stake and influence that they have, and I oppose anything that aims to take that away in a way that is not fair to the original stakeholders.

The overall intention is to find a way for the platform to scale to a larger user base, where it is not just the early adopters running the show.

Also to note is this current test is just an experiment. It is not a permanent change, and it is being done voluntarily by the stakeholders themselves.

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62
  ·  2 months ago

You must really want that abit witness vote ;)

Here is the fact: downvoting by abit is an experiment doomed to fail. If he intends only to do this for a short period...why try it at all?

Like i said before...i do legitimate work posting to this platform where for THE FIRST TIME in years i actually get paid for my work. And because my sacrifice has earned some backing from whales, it is considered unfair by abit to the point where he will FLAG my content? There is a reason why it is called flagging---it is meant to warn people that this person MAY be misusing the platform. Am i doing this? To those who know me...it should be insane to think this.

It is precisely these halfassed, partially-thought-through ideas that hurt this platform.

Just because abit can run a frigging witness and code doesnt mean he has the skightest clue about the psychology of incentivizing loyalty to the project.

Hint abit: if you want steem price to go back up...maybe you shouldnt have sold so much steem so early on when some of us were using what we were EARNING to try to continue improving the platform!

Abit will not stop my work. Ive done it for FREE for a long time before he could rape me in the ass here on steem...
I guess abit thinks i dont deserve what whales who upvote me want to give. Ill say this though...the last people you want to shit on are the ones who will do their work for free....because its THEY who will hold up the platform when terrible decisions like abits "test" have pushed away all the people who started actually gaining traction.

Is it obvious to anyone else that abit doesnt know what its like to have to rely on upvotes of people who deservedly trust him in order to get paid for his work? Must be nice sitti g in the ivory witness tower. He acts like hes givi g power back to the people??? I say he gives his steempower away then instead of trashing mine. I mean after all his job is largely automated while mine actually requires consistent work.

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64
  ·  2 months ago

Lol, I'm just trying to make waves so that maybe a whale will buy my silence,...
Downvoting is a necessary evil, I'm not sure that this is good way to use it, but I certainly support his activism.

I can't be a witness, I don't have the coding skillz.
Mine stopped advancing on the TI-99 4A when I left for the army.

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62
  ·  2 months ago

Do you support my activism? I literally made a post about how i got Steemit coverage among thousands of people who are looking for censorship free alternatives to reddit and other platforms. It was the culmination of MONTHS of outreach and getting shot down by other players in the space...and i got on here to spend 6 hours detailing WHY STEEM is UNDERVALUED (censorship resistance) and then @abit downvotes it? Punishing me for getting upvotes from whales who actually appreciate me reaching out to these people...

Maybe i shouldnt reach out to people? That is my response. Maybe i shouldnt use my expertise and beyondbitcoin brand to help steem since i can get attacked like this? Maybe i should warn others as well?

This is the kind of response you get to half assed attempts to redistribute wealth. I have no incentive to use what i have earned to help steem if steem will shit on my amazingly taxing efforts....

Flagging IS a necessary evil...to be used ONLY in cases when someone has BLATANTLY misused the platform. Everyone who pays attention to my posts will realize i dont misuse the damn platform....and the whales who follow and support me do so because they have learned what kind of person i am AND KNOW MY WORK IS VALUABLE!

What this is...is an unnecessary evil. If you need more clues why...ask me if i plan to tell more people about steem as THE place to go when censored by other platforms. Instead...if this persists, i will just get a second job where abit cant demote me and my work. Sure its in his power, but he and all other whales should really consider if its good for steem. Hint: kilking the oaks that have weathered past storms is usually a BAD idea.

Flagging is used for blatant misuse (child porn and other extremely illegal/damaging behaviors).

THIS flagging war (errr...i mean "test") is blatant misuse of the platform.

As for the witness, dont thibk its above your capabilities as it definitely is not if you are willing to take 20 or 30 hours to realllly learn. You DONT need coding skills to be a witness. All you need is to set up the software and let it run on a protected system....(and have a backup in case something odd happens to force you to restart your witness).

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71
  ·  2 months ago

Based on the fact that all of the whales were not contacted prior to the experiment, I agree that the execution was bad. There should have been better communication.

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62
  ·  2 months ago

Dude...i literally just recruited someone who is promoting steem to people who have been censored on other platforms as well as to her 60,000+ followers.

I was planning on taking the funds from that post and giving them to her to incentivize her learning more about it. So I need to know: Do you think this is behavior whales should punish? Because very few others will actually take the time to even do such outreach and never give up until results are produced. And im sure minnows who havent done shit to prove themselves will complain about not getting paid fairly by whales. This doesnt make it right for them to wish me to lose support because I am willing to spend hours upon hours doing something they are not doing...

Ill tell u right now if they had informed me of this bullshit, id have just stopped trying to even get her. They DISSINCENTIVIZED me from doing what I DO BEST! Considering im one of the people who is credited with having an important role in steems creation + the FACT that i have not even asked for my own personal witness (like many posters here have done) should tell you I am not the kind of person you want to hurt...because givi g resources to me means giving resources to someone who GENUINELY has cared about this platforms best interests from day one. Last I checked it is people like me who build and give steroid injections to entire communities. These are the kind of people i WANT to reward! (Or at the VERY LEAST not punish!)

SO...what are the consequences of these whales actions? Did they REALLY help? Or are they shooting all of us in the faces?

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71
  ·  2 months ago

Fuzzy - I have respect for your opinion, but in this scenario I think you are overreacting a bit. This is not a permanent situation. The community of whales is merely running an experiment.

I agree 100% that the communication regarding this was handled poorly, and that you should not have found out the way you did.

I don't know how long the experiment is supposed to last, but seeing as it is not intended to be something permanent, I don't think the impact on you or anyone in the community is going to be that significant.

I think everyone that is involved wants to find a solution that is fair to both the original stakeholders (who earned the influence that they have, and deserve to keep it) and finds a way to address one of the bigger issues that is causing everyone's stake to go down in value.

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64
  ·  2 months ago

Absolutely, @fuzzyvest, I support everybody's standing up to be counted.

It sounds like you have done a lot of things for the community.
Thank you!!

I don't agree that this test will achieve the goals desired, but I do like it when somebody gets his dander up and starts to push back, I'm insurrectionary.

I hope that you get out there and make some waves, too.
You definitely deserve some recognition for what you have done.
We, those outside the inner circles, need to know what you have contributed so that we may pay proper tribute to your achievements.

I don't like the downvoting, and I wonder why @a**hole can still be seen on the interface.
Perhaps comment downvotes should hit reputation, also?

Why have you stopped putting out original content?

I would assume that given the opportunity I will learn more of the coding, atm, my internet connection is intermittent and limited.

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62
  ·  2 months ago

Well downvoting actually was taken away early on (which abit SHOULD know) for the reason that we are seeing now played out here.

If u go to look at the flagging feature, it soecifically even states it is to be used to combat misuse or abuse of the system.

Though i appreciate your understanding here, i promise you i wouldnt be even saying what ive done unless my hand was forced (i rarely give myself credit). The onky reason i do is because od hos absolutely ridiculous this is.

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63
  ·  2 months ago

If you have been involved for so long, why is it that you can oppose a very core idea of Steem, that every is free to use their votes as they wish, and that this freedom is essential to the health of the blockchain?

72
  ·  2 months ago

I heard this was going on, but I thought it was already going on to some degree.

60
  ·  2 months ago

Interesting. I'm curious to see how this will play out. Obviously not everyone is playing this game, but it will be interesting. :-)

59
  ·  2 months ago

(grabs 3rd bag of popcorn...137 replies!!!)

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42
  ·  2 months ago

Lol!

65
  ·  2 months ago

I've been away for a week and came back to find this post re-steemed in my feed. I read Whales no up voting test and also, in a comment of yours, we have decided ... yada yada , and thought you were operating from some kind of a consensus. I upvoted your witness.

But then I looked some more at my feed, a few hours later, looking who was downvoting just who's upvote, and saw that your we had mislead me.

I stopped bothering to read @dan's philosophy articles a couple of months ago, I really think he allows his prose to lead his thoughts into strange places, and he may be some kind of a dodgy operator, but he is an identified human and in the forming of community, which is the priority here, that is a plus, if not a prerequisite: he gets my support.

There is another account, downvoting with you in your experiment, which is not identified or verified. It could be either a truculent teenager or a committee of ostriches, pasting in a series of cut and paste comments with their angry beaks, and your siding with this nonsense, your failure to state the context of your_experiment_ or accurately to define your pointer, your we, means that I quickly removed my vote from your witness.

Your experiment: I hope you find my comment useful as one data point in your results.

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71
  ·  2 months ago

The experiment is actually being done by a large group of whales. It is not just @abit. The goal is to get all of the whales to not vote, so that the dolphins and minnows (temporary) have more influence. Any whales that do not go along with it, are getting 'countered' by downvotes. I created a post with some more info: here.

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65
  ·  2 months ago

AFAICS the large group is not identified, and so my POV remains

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