Everything you need to know about potential payouts and flagging (for new users)

6 months ago
72 in payout

The size of the pie is fixed, but how it gets sliced is not.

Every day, a fixed amount of money is allocated to the "rewards pool". These are the coins that get distributed to authors and curators for posting and voting on content. When users upvote or downvote posts, they are not adding or taking money away from the rewards pool. They are only changing how the pool is divided.

If there is $7,000 in the rewards pool for the day - then that $7,000 is split across all of the active posts based on how many upvotes/downvotes they receive. If there is a post with a pending payout of $500, then that means there is only $6,500 left to be paid to all the other posts.

"Potential Payouts" can go up or down until the payment window closes.

The amount that is shown next to a post is a "Potential Payout". This is an estimated value of how much money the post will make based on the votes that have occurred so far. Until the payout window closes though, this value can go up or down.

  • If a post receives more upvotes, the potential payout of the post can go up.
  • If a post receives more downvotes, the potential payout of the post can go down.
  • If other posts receive more upvotes, the potential payout of the post can go down.
  • If other posts receive more downvotes, the potential payout of the post can go up.
  • If upvotes are removed from a post, the potential payout of the post can go down.
  • If downvotes are removed from a post, the potential payout of the post can go up.
  • If the price of STEEM goes up, the potential payout of all posts can go up.
  • If the price of STEEM goes down, the potential payout of all posts can go down.

Payouts are split between authors and curators.

Up to 25% of a post's payout is awarded to curators (the people who upvoted the post) as a reward for discovering the content. The other 75% is awarded to the author. If curators vote for a post within the first 30 minutes of it being created, a portion of their curation reward is added to the author payout.

Stakeholders are voting to decide on how the pie gets sliced.

The platform is filled with tons of users, who all have different opinions on how the posts should get paid. The rewards are decided based on the collective wisdom of the group. Some users may feel certain content is more valued than others, and it is up to them to use their upvotes/downvotes accordingly to spread the rewards how they see fit.

A downvote/flag does not mean you did something wrong.

There are many users in the community who recommend only using the flag/downvote on posts that are abusive/bad. It is up to you if you want to follow this etiquette.

Just because you received a downvote/flag does not mean that you did something wrong. They may have just been voting to reallocate the rewards in a way that they felt was more beneficial to the other active posts in the platform. Often users will leave a comment explaining why they downvoted/flagged, but sometimes they might not. If they left a reason, it is up to you to determine if you did anything wrong, and if there is anything you want to change.

Larger stakeholders have more say in how the rewards are divided.

A user with more SP is going to have a larger influence on the way rewards are allocated compared to users with less SP. If you don't like how a particular user has voted, you can counter their vote by voting the opposite way. If they have more SP than you, then your counter will not have as big of an effect. One vote from a user with a lot of SP can often have more of an effect than 100 votes from users with a small amount of SP.

You can buy more SP if you would like to have more power / influence / say.

The platform does not require that anybody purchase SP in order to participate, and there are many users who have become successful on the platform without investing any of their own money. If you would like to increase your voting stake though, then you have the option of purchasing more Steem Power through your Steemit wallet.


(Image Creative Commons CC0 from https://pixabay.com/)

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Sort Order:  trending
45
  ·  2 months ago

This is really helpful. I was worried why my rewards are getting low. Now I understand everything. Thank you.

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72
  ·  2 months ago

Welcome :)

55
  ·  13 days ago

Thank you for this clear and very understandable explanation. Unfortunately it leaves me with yet another question...

I was thinking about the issue yesterday already and today I more or less accidentally came across a video clip, which confirms my worries. A famous person opened an account on steemit, got the word out and within a day made close to 15,000.- Dollars.

Now, please don't get me wrong, its not like I don't want that man to have it. My question is, what happens, when the real top superstars pop up here? Millions of fans upvoting most of the "pie" to their accounts? According to what you said, it looks like it will just be like in the real world then... the stars and the rich get even richer and the little guy is left with some crumbs..

Or, what if someone decides to build some kind of "vote farm"... supposedly, there are places in low wage countries, where hundreds of "kids" like away all day for fb users buying likes. Could a similar system "harvest" rewards here like that?

I hope you don't think, I'm just some greedy person who is afraid of not getting enough. Although its a wonderful feeling, to get rewarded for quality interaction, I truly enjoy all the wonderful content I find around here and the conversations are much better than on any other social media platform.

If anyone could help me with my questions, put my mind at ease or point out that I'm simply missing something, I'd be very thankful :-)

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72
  ·  13 days ago

Really good questions. @stellabelle created a good post several months back talking about that - what would happen if celebrities signed up. To some extent, it is unknown. A lot of it depends on how the community handles it. A lot of what you described is a possibility though. We'll have to see.

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55
  ·  13 days ago

Thank you very much for your quick reply and for not making me look too stupid. At least one is aware of the situation. I hope good and fair solutions will be found.

If it wasn't so sad, it would almost be funny how human nature seems to always find ways to ruin a wonderful thing with greed. Hope the community will find ways, to defend itself.

Trying to find the post you mentioned

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43
  ·  8 days ago

Those vote farm would require participants with some voting power to have any effect. So the celebrity would need to spend quite some steem to power up his vote farm. Eventually such manipulations would drive the price for steem up. This would ultimately benefit all, wouldn´t it?

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55
  ·  8 days ago

Hm... I think I get your point. I thought of the celebrity thing and the vote farm of being two issues of their own. The celebrities would likely get upvoted by a wide range of fans, with all kinds of voting power.

The vote farms I thought, would be a "business" in a gray zone market. The "employees" could upvote each other for a start... just imagine you have a few hundred "kids" doing that and then use their "power" to make money for the "business"... not sure if I make any sense..

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43
  ·  8 days ago

I ike the picture, masses of "kids" sitting one next to the other in huge internet cafes and voting like crazy. Like those world of warcraft-players who dig something or earn items in order to sell them to western WoW players with less time but more money. But how to incentivize those mass-voters, when they themselve never get upvoted because they don´t contribute meaningful content? To calculate how much initial vests they need to create a self-sustaining dynamic of a revoting network is beyond my math skills :-)
And then comes in addition the issue with the voting bots which adds a level of complexity...

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55
  ·  8 days ago

Understand what you are saying and it gives hope in a way, that it shows other systems haven't been brought down by similar behavior.

When I talked about vote farms I was referring to something I read, when people started to buy likes and fans for their facebook accounts. The article was about what they called "like farms". We are talking about kids in the poorest countries in the world, who'd never own their own cell phone or a computer. If they'd get a fraction of the profits they generate, I think they'd surely enough be highly motivated...

On a different not... may I ask what your profile picture shows?

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43
  ·  8 days ago

We will see how it will evolve, if there is a way to exploit or abuse a system (the voting system in this case), unfortunately sooner or later somebody will find a way to do so.
Sure, it shows Takamatsu Toshitsugu, one of the greatest masters in Ninjutsu, and supposed to be the last real Ninja
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/budotaijutsu/Takamatsu.html
He is a model in many ways: self-disciplined, always modest&respectful but very skillful, and deadly if needed

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55
  ·  8 days ago

Yes, we'll see :-) I have hopes, that community will "defend" itself though.

Thanks for the info on aster Takamatsu Toshitsugu... I thought it was an aikido master, but the picture is too small for me to accurately judge.

Would be a model for me to! Although I like the philosophy in aikido, where the opponent is supposed to remain unharmed

44
  ·  22 days ago

Thanks timcliff for this article. Helps little minnows like myself understand more how everything is distributed. Also gives me more motivation to keep working harder to create more substantial and worthy content. Kudos!!

71
  ·  6 months ago

Great post!

I was just thinking about this the other day and how much I'd love to see a dynamic visualization of the rewards pool. I was imagining something that showed each post as a circle with the size of the circle representing the potential payout amount. The circles could be all arranged in a column which could add up to to the total current rewards pool. The small payout posts on the bottom would bunch up together with the largest post at the top being the biggest circle. I'd love to see something like that. On mouse over it could show the author, the title of the post, and a link.

Anyone up for building it?

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62
  ·  5 months ago

I cant wait for Ai programmers who will be able to take our ideas and do all the programming work for us

73
  ·  6 months ago

Hey, look at that! A user/witness who understands what "flags" are and how the pool works!

Maybe you can teach the aspiring witnesses about this? I don't think they got the thousands of memos.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Hehe, thanks! I'm technically in the "aspiring witnesses" category myself though ;) I'm hoping this post will help a lot of people better understand how it all works.

My plan is to get this up onto the Welcome Page, so users who take the time to review the content there will start out on the 'right' track.

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67
  ·  6 months ago

This is a good idea to get it (or trimmed down similar) on the welcome page. I have only been here a couple weeks but this is the first time I felt I have an understanding of what is going on with the votibg and flagging. One thing I can't work out is how to see all voters. It only ever shows the first view and +## but that doesn't expand to view all. Maybe it is just me.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

There actually isn't a way through the Steemit.com interface, but if you use steemd.com, steemdb.com, or steemstats.com - you should be able to see more data there.

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67
  ·  6 months ago

Thank you for taking the time to answer.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Welcome :)

48
  ·  2 months ago

Great post. Thanks

47
  ·  last month

Another very useful post from you, many thanks! One think I cant discover... if a reader resteems somebody's post after the final payouts have been made on it, does the author receive rewards from the resteemed version?

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72
  ·  last month

No. Resteeming is just sharing the post with your followers. It does not affect the post payout in any way, other than giving the post more views. If the views occur after the payout has ended, then any upvotes will not add to the rewards.

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47
  ·  27 days ago

Ah, so we need to resteem fast if author is to benefit as much as possible. Thanks for that

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51
  ·  6 days ago

Just reading an excellent post of yours from last year..."Everything you need to know about potential payouts and flagging (for new users)" - Could you put me straight: Would it not be a good idea to make old post continue to earn? I think yes! - or make it possible to resteem them to re-activate their earnings for authors and curators and to help get the post back into circulation if it is truly useful and wanted. I believe like copywriter of a good book the author/curators should continue to earn as long as people enjoy the post. Your thoughts on this and whether it would be beneficial to steemit would be really appreciated!

thank you for all your wonderful work!

all the best

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72
  ·  6 days ago

It has been suggested/requested by many before. It is not that it is a 'bad' idea, but there are a lot of complications with it. One of them is abusive users can vote for their own post, power down, power up a new account, then vote for their post again. They can keep milking rewards forever without adding any new content. There are some other complexities with it as well, like increasing the amount of computations required by the blockchain to calculate rewards.

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51
  ·  5 days ago

Hi timcliff, Thank you so much for your reply... ah i see - i did worry there might be such problems - but worth resolving how ever difficult i think. Perhaps through flagging this could be controlled - Btw this leads to another massive point.... flagging must be dangerous for many users if the other party decides to make problems for them - for the reason i think there should be Steem Police! Perhaps with a less repugnant name like Admin hehe... but i believe users need a higher power that can flag and remove bad users and spammers - without any danger of abuse to users. This is perhaps more important than my resteem comment - your thoughts? Is there such people to contact if one runs into nasty/abusive users?

I have had no problems like this on steemit ... but i have read ausbitbanks girlfriend saying she has been severely harassed by a user nogonoo or similar name, from memory!

thank you for your time!

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72
  ·  5 days ago

There is actually - SteemCleaners.

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51
  ·  5 days ago

Ah thank you ... i had wondered what they did!

75
  ·  6 months ago

I think your post is very straightforward and helpful.
I would add one last thing to in order to round it out and make it more personable.
If every whale had access to a large amount of emotional intelligence, I think the system would function much better. For example, reducing rewards for someone who just lost their job and who has never trended before with a high payout would have a much higher collateral damage rating than reducing rewards for someone who is currently being well paid and always trends. The additional element of emotional intelligence can make a huge difference in a platform that at its root is SOCIAL.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Hopefully in situations like that, the community/ whales can counter a single bad vote from one whale. In most cases, it only takes one whale to undo whatever action another whale did that the community disagrees with.

42
  ·  20 days ago

What happens after the 7(?) day payment window closes? What if a post goes viral 6 months later? Does the author get rewarded in anyway for that?

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72
  ·  20 days ago

No, although if there are new comments made in reply to the post, those comments can get paid out.

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42
  ·  20 days ago

Am I right in thinking that they will at least get a reputation bonus? I'd hope they get something out of it (other than regular exposure).

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72
  ·  19 days ago

I'm actually not 100% sure on that, but I don't believe it does. Currently the platform is more driven towards building followings and getting more readers for your new content. If an old post went viral, they would most likely at least earn a lot more followers.

70
  ·  6 months ago

Hey Tim, this is an awesome and very informative post. Thanks for writing it!
Out of curiousity, is there a way to know how much of the daily reward pool is being used or to see if the total reward pool is actually being used on a daily basis? Maybe an online app of sorts that I haven't heard of? If not, I feel that this would be very helpful.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

I'm not 100% sure if I understand what you are asking, but every day 100% of the rewards pool will be used up.

A while back, @gavvet created this post with a breakdown of how the posts were allocated on a particular day. He might be a good person to talk to if you are interested in getting more data like that.

@jesta also creates quite a few tools that slice/dice the blockchain data. If you talk to him, he might be able to add something to steemdb.com. (It might even already have something..)

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70
  ·  6 months ago

Awesome information, thanks for the help!
I guess I didn't realize that 100% of the daily rewards pool will always be used up. Now that you have told me that, your post makes even more sense. :)

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Cool :)

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69
  ·  6 months ago

Precisely speaking, "every day 100% of the rewards pool will be used up" is a false statement. Actually it depends on voters. Some days more than that, some days less, but on average it's 100%.

Also theoretically it's possible that a post earn rewards accumulated in multiple days. With current rule, when you vote on a post, the payout time extends, so it can "drain" more rewards.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Are you referring to the fact that with the extended payout windows when there is a significant change in rewards, payouts get extended beyond 24 hours?

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69
  ·  6 months ago

Payouts get extended after every vote.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Agreed/understood. I was just trying to simplify for brevity. The point you raise is good/valid/correct. Thanks for bringing it up!

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71
  ·  6 months ago

Hi there.

I tried to reply to you on something @beanz wrote about you her and @smooth in a post where you talked about curation and flagging, and comments by the flagger, I could not reply there to you guys, (nesting uggh)


Whales that call DV or even considering that to someone who maybe gets a 40 or $50 payout ~once a month really need to reconsider their total "thought process" or if this is curation. It is not. Proper curation requires more than looking at the trending page all day and deciding whether or not that they are going to DV something vs looking at someone's body of collective work over one post, in one place, once a day.

  • Which is anything but balanced and community minded.
68
  ·  6 months ago

Thank you @timcliff for a nice clear explanation of "how things work" on Steemit! It has taken me about two weeks of reading bits and pieces to form a picture that's not even as clear as what you just explained in one concise post... so I'd say this is a valuable post! Resteeming.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Awesome, thanks!

65
  ·  6 months ago

flagged for disagreement on rewards.

jk

a very good post.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Hehe. I am half expecting to collect quite a few flags over "disagreement on rewards" from the people who disagree with me by the end of this post. All part of the game though :)

Thanks!

73
  ·  6 months ago

Yep. That's a flawless post!

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Thanks! :)

60
  ·  6 months ago

U/V and RS good job!

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Cool, thanks!

72
  ·  6 months ago

There needs to be an intro or something for new people to explain this to them as soon as they get here. It is still helpful, but it'd be a lot nicer if we could help them before they get smacked by it for the first time. Set proper expectations.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

That's the plan actually :) I'll be including it on the Welcome Page under the "Helpful Posts from Steemit Users" section during my next round of updates.

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65
  ·  6 months ago

Nice informative post.
How do you submit an article to the welcome page? i have a couple of posts that i think would be helpfull to new users and would like to submit them.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Anyone has the option of submitting a pull request to the GitHub repository with changes that they would like to be made. There is no guarantee that they will be approved though.

Or, if you send me the links, I can review them, and include them in my next pull request if I think they are good to include.

57
  ·  6 months ago

Very clear much needed description. Resteemed, upvoted and followed. Thanks for posting.

58
  ·  6 months ago

A breathe of fresh air! Thank you, I feel smarter having read this. 🤓

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58
  ·  6 months ago

resteem

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72
  ·  6 months ago

:)

63
  ·  6 months ago

Thanks @timcliff, this clears things up for me.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Awesome!

61
  ·  6 months ago

I went for a walk after having a heated conversation about this, and came back a lot less angry about the possibility that my posts get flagged/downvoted to oblivion. Of course everyone has the right to downvote my posts, as much as I have to right to get angry about it. I just have to make better posts next time around, no matter how unmotivated I may feel about making them.

Maybe it's not that bad, but I can't help feeling betrayed by the possibility of getting a downvote squad on me after making a better than a $0.25 post.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

I agree, it can be a real downer to have a post with high potential rewards go down :(

The best way I think of it is like playing a poker game - you may go up and down in chips, but until you make it to the cash-out window, the money is not really yours to keep yet.

Was there a reason behind the downvote(s) you received?

If it was a content abuse issue (like plagiarism, trolling, spam, etc.) then you'll need to decide on whether you want to keep posting the type of content that will attract that type of negative feedback.

If it was just a disagreement over rewards, then hopefully you can continue to improve and gain more supporters so that your number of upvotes outweighs any potential downvotes from users with a different opinion on what is valued. I'm of the opinion that good content will win out in the end :)

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61
  ·  6 months ago

The thing is, I haven't yet received downvotes, but I do see it as a possibility. I have made a couple posts with more than $10 payout, but haven't yet struck big as it is. On one of them I wasn't really trying, so I felt weird, but anyway thought that if the people reading it liked it, why not? After that I really put an effort into the next one and it failed and didn't get almost any payout.

I'm hoping that my next posts about photography will gather more views and votes, as I'm currently putting more effort into them.

I would definitely hate it if I got downvoted after trying so hard to make a real effort to make something of quality. I can understand people not voting up, even if I put effort in my post, but downvotes just to make it pay less sounds heinous.

It's mostly my fear of getting rejected that is doing the talking here, though. Obscurity for being obscure is one thing, but outright rejection and for a good post would definitely feel worse than not having been heard or read at all.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

I checked out your blog, and you seem interesting. I've started to follow you now.

When I first started out, I posted tons of content without receiving more than a few pennies of rewards. Then after that it was a lot like a lottery - I would occasionally get good payouts, but it didn't really seem to be directly related to how good my content was. (I posted a lot of good content that never got upvoted.)

Eventually I earned enough followers that when I post good stuff it gets seen by a lot of people. Now I feel like my payouts are more reflective of the quality that I create. (My good content often does well, and when my stuff doesn't do well - I take it to mean that whatever I did wasn't adding much value.) Before, I could easily blame it on not being seen.

I wouldn't worry too much about getting downvoted. Not everybody is going to like what you write, and sometimes people will chose to downvote. Just think of it as part of the game.

My belief is that if you be yourself and post things that add value, that the rewards will come in the end.

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61
  ·  6 months ago

Well I thank you both for the encouragement and for following. I have so many things I have planned to do and write here it has been a bit of a hassle to get a sense of what my blog should generally be about. My interests keep changing so fast it's often hard to keep up with them. (Maybe I should start keeping a to-do list or something.)

Anyway, maybe in time I will figure out what my forté is and how to most efficiently write about whatever it is I'm into at any given moment.

Thanks. Maybe all will be well after all.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Mine is an eclectic mix, although I tend to write mostly about Steemit. It is my main interest at the moment :)

(Maybe I should start keeping a to-do list or something.)

I would definitely recommend a "Post Ideas" list. I think of ideas all the time, and then when I feel like writing a post, I often pick one from the list. Other times I get excited about whatever my idea is, and just jump into writing about it.

Anyway, maybe in time I will figure out what my forté is and how to most efficiently write about whatever it is I'm into at any given moment.

Thanks. Maybe all will be well after all.

Good luck! I'll see you around :)

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65
  ·  6 months ago

Based on what ive seen, those individuals downvoting solely based on the idea that a post is being paid too much are mainly downvoting posts with payouts of $40 or more (based on the current price of steem). And even then, they are typically removing only around half of the payout.

Id be really surprised to see an original content post with $10 in payout being downvoted this way.

The thing you might not get entirely is that downvoting "big" posts (like one with $50 -$200 payout) like this free up more money for lesser paid posts. So, for example, its downvoting like this that might make a less popular post payout a little more. So maybe your post that would have only gotten $5 otherwise, makes it above $10 because its not getting starved out by $150 posts at the top of the 'food chain'.

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61
  ·  6 months ago

The thing you might not get entirely is that downvoting "big" posts (like one with $50 -$200 payout) like this free up more money for lesser paid posts.

I get it alright, but if I ever were to get $200 payout for a post and some idiot downvoted it to $20 I'd be truly annoyed. I've seen plenty of >$200 posts to understand that even I could have a chance at that. Now you are saying I can't, because lottery isn't fair?

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65
  ·  6 months ago

I hate to sound like a party pooper (or a conspiracy theorist), but you very likely have a near zero chance of getting that kind of payout (given the current price of steem).

Before some whales started downvoting them, the posts that you saw that probably made you think you have a chance-- those posts weren't getting upvoted because of the quality of the material, or because they got lucky and won a 'lottery', but were the people running steemguild self-upvoting themselves or maybe super established authors (maybe 3 or 4 different legitimate independant ones) that get that much automatically every time the post.

Yes, there are very rare "lottery winners"... but mostly the lottery is won by the same people over and over again, and it has little to do with luck, and no you really don't have a chance at that.

Which is why, IMO, its a good thing that rewards are being directed away from them -- and to the levels of rewards that actual regular users have a chance at.

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61
  ·  6 months ago

I hate to sound like a party pooper (or a conspiracy theorist), but you very likely have a near zero chance of getting that kind of payout (given the current price of steem).

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Especially coming from someone who "won the lottery" more than once.

Yes, there are very rare "lottery winners"... but mostly the lottery is won by the same people over and over again, and it has little to do with luck, and no you really don't have a chance at that.

There is no "no chance" and you know it. Even if the chance is small, it is still there, and I'm betting on it. I wouldn't be here using Steem if it weren't for that chance. I would never have started using it if I were to know beforehand someone were to take that (how ever small) chance away.

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65
  ·  6 months ago

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Especially coming from someone who "won the lottery" more than once.

I've never "won the lottery". If youre looking at the payouts of my past posts, you have to keep in mind that these posts were made and paid out when the price of steem was much higher (and also when the blogging reward pool was larger pre HF16)

My 5 brothers post was probably as close as I got, which wasn't even on the first page of trending, and with current values/reward pool would have probably made around $50 or $60.

There are some whales who occassionally pay attention to what i post (heaven knows why.), so i might have a bit of a better chance. But most of the biggest whales who vote in concert to make those huge rewards do so either on auto-pilot or to the benefit of SG and outreach self voters.

There is no "no chance" and you know it. Even if the chance is small, it is still there, and I'm betting on it. I wouldn't be here using Steem if it weren't for that chance. I would never have started using it if I were to know beforehand someone were to take that (how ever small) chance away.

Take away high powered self voters using whale keys, and guaranteed payout authors like krnel, ats-david and a couple others (i don't think these guys are bad, or that theres anything underhanded about it... just being realistic that they're not playing a lottery), how many do you see winning the lottery with 150-200 payouts? How many honest to goodness lottery winners are there in the lottery youre trying to play? Real question, btw. Is there a chance, maybe. But its an extreme long shot.

EDIT -- incidentally, lest i sound disgruntled, i don't post a ton, and I don't necessarily think that what I do post ought to be highly rewarded. I would not have even discussed my own payouts had they not been brought up.

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61
  ·  6 months ago

One question: Now that I checked a post of mine has been flagged twice. What on earth is @blacklist and @blacklist-a, and why is it considering my birthday greeting for my wife plagiarism or hate speech?

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Don't worry about it. It is someone trying to scam people. The account has practically no SP, so the downvotes don't really do anything. You can read about it in this post: https://steemit.com/blacklist/@schattenjaeger/you-re-not-getting-my-money-blacklist-other-users-should-refuse-too

60
  ·  6 months ago

Thanks for the great article @timcliff! I am a new user, posted some content, but I was trying yo understand, from all the reading, what SP, downvote, upvote and some other things are all about and you made this point very clear to me. I will be looking forward to reading more articles from you! =)

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Awesome! Glad I could help :)

42
  ·  6 months ago

By George I think I get it now!

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Sweet :)

59
  ·  6 months ago

Thanks for the information - very informative.
Now, is it still possible, with the limited pay-out pool per day, for one person to create a 'super-- post' like the one they talk about where one person made
$15,000 on one post???

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72
  ·  6 months ago

The current reward pool is about $6,000-7,000 per day, so the most that a single post could make (if all other posts got $0) would be around $6-7k.

The price of STEEM would need to go up in order for the reward pool to go up to the point that $15,000 rewards for a single post to be possible again. If the price went up to around $1.00 per STEEM coin, then the reward pool would be closer to $60,000-70,000. Then a $15,000 post would definitely be possible.

I think the record was somewhere around $43,000 :)

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73
  ·  6 months ago

After HF 17, posts are paid out on a weekly basis and reward pool will contain on average $50,000 and payout an average of $6-7K per day. An extremely popular post (relative to everything else) could still pull in $15K even at today's valuation.

Overall HF17 should smooth the rewards and prevent large posts from dramatically impacting the average payout-per-vote of other posts.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Cool, thanks Dan!

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74
  ·  6 months ago

Nice, can't wait for the 7 day rollout :)

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72
  ·  6 months ago

@dantheman left a comment in reply to mine regarding the $15,000 payout that you may be interested in.

64
  ·  6 months ago

Well said @timcliff
Users shouldn't feel entitled to any rewards before the end of the voting period.
An easy way to solve this is to hide payout until its actually paid out.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

I agree with the first part :)

IMO, the second part solves one problem but it takes away an important aspect of the platform. This post is intended to be an informative post for new users though, so any conversations about potential changes to the platform would be best discussed elsewhere ;)

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64
  ·  6 months ago

Don't start the argument if you don't want to talk about it lol
Your comment is a bit like me saying: I disagree with your post but please don't ask me why .

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Yeah, I do that a lot don't I, lol
[Edit] Feel free to hit me up on steemit.chat though! :)

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67
  ·  6 months ago

What is hidden can´t be evaluated. And the evaluation of the monetary value of a given piece of content is at the core of the Steemit idea, I think.

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64
  ·  6 months ago

It is the content that should be evaluated not payout. Otherwise you are influencing voter's decision.
Everything could still be viewed on the blockchain anyway.
To me voters should vote based on content and moderators should vote based on payouts.

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67
  ·  6 months ago

It is the content that should be evaluated not payout.

As I understand it, the content is evaluated in terms of whether or not the subjectively perceived value of a post is in agreement with it´s reward level at the time-point of the assessment.

Otherwise you are influencing voter's decision.

If the outcome of this evaluation results in a change of the reward level (upvote, downvote, removal of a previously given up-/downvote) it is supposed to influence the assessment of the subsequent curator.

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64
  ·  6 months ago

I guess I forgot about curators, so yeah I' d agree with you that payout is necessary for curators but curators votes for stuff that are going to make them the most money not the stuff they like the most.
In a system where users votes for stuff that they like payouts is not necessary.

68
  ·  6 months ago

You're spot on, of course, and I have long supported the use of downvotes to express a negative opinion; and changing the Flag to a Downvote as it used to be. Exclusively upvotes and positive reinforcement is unhealthy - there needs to be a diversity of opinion for any robust community.

That said, I'm on the fence now about flagging. It has proven to be deeply unpopular to the wider community, and we need to respect that. I doubt as a community we are ready for it just yet. It'll need a major perception shift and some UI changes that makes downvotes appear as normal and banal as they are on Reddit.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Having the 'flag' and 'downvote' combined into the same function is a large part of the problem. If we would be able to separate those two out and define "acceptable use" policies for each, I think that would sort out part of the issue.

There are always going to be users that get upset if/when part of their reward is removed due to a downvote though. I don't think there is any platform fix that can be made for that.

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68
  ·  6 months ago

Having the 'flag' and 'downvote' combined into the same function is a large part of the problem. If we would be able to separate those two out and define "acceptable use" policies for each, I think that would sort out part of the issue.

Yes, making a downvote a downvote and defining their use clearly is certainly worth a shot.

There are always going to be users that get upset if/when part of their reward is removed due to a downvote though. I don't think there is any platform fix that can be made for that.

Of course, someone or the other will always be upset, but we can do better.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Based on the feedback that I've seen from the devs, this is something on their radar that they are planning 'eventually' but we will probably need to live with the current implementation for a while.

69
  ·  6 months ago

Awesome! I feel like these things need to be repeated from time to time. Well put out!

60
  ·  6 months ago

A user with more SP is going to have a larger influence on the way rewards are allocated compared to users with less SP

non-linear larger influence, isn't it ?)

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Yes, that is true. The proposed changes in the upcoming hard-fork though (HF17) are going to make it more linear though.

57
  ·  6 months ago

Downvoted because of high rewards.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Ok :)

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57
  ·  6 months ago

Seems to me, I can't say gotcha ;)
By the way I didn't down vote.
I was just a little frustrated about stupid reasons people use for down voting So I thought I'll do it by others to see what the reaction would be.

I actually up voted.

Edit; unbelievable I was looking at ozmasters blog to see if he wrote something new, maybe another song contest what do I see in the reply's......Your friendly comment "very entertaining" wow what a co-insident, maybe it's a sign from the blockchain god, is trying to tell me something lol........to be more careful with my reply's perhaps;)

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72
  ·  6 months ago

:)

67
  ·  6 months ago

If curators vote for a post within the first 30 minutes of it being created, a portion of their curation reward is added to the author payout.

I would like the portion of their curation reward to go elsewhere and not to authors again... (not to mention that 50:50 would be better in my opinion if not more in favor of curators, just the display should change... The gui must show only the author rewards and when mouse over it should display the current curator rewards)

67
  ·  6 months ago

Very clearly put! Thanks!

42
  ·  6 months ago

Thank you so much. I am a newbie.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Welcome :)

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42
  ·  6 months ago

Thank you

71
  ·  6 months ago

What a great explanation of the rewards pool. I've learned a lot from you and your informative posts!

@kus-knee (The Old Dog)

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Thanks :)

65
  ·  6 months ago

This needs to be a sticky some where

A downvote/flag does not mean you did something wrong.

here are many users in the community who recommend only using the flag/downvote on posts that are abusive/bad. It is up to you if you want to follow this etiquette.

Just because you received a downvote/flag does not mean that you did something wrong. They may have just been voting to reallocate the rewards in a way that they felt was more beneficial to the other active posts in the platform. Often users will leave a comment explaining why they downvoted/flagged, but sometimes they might not. If they left a reason, it is up to you to determine if you did anything wrong, and if there is anything you want to change.

Thank you for this.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Yes, agreed. The plan is to add this post to the "welcome page" content.

71
  ·  6 months ago

I think this just clears the air the more people mean pie pieces get smaller.

70
  ·  6 months ago

Lol, this is a great post! And you have a way with words which is definitive. If someone does not get it after this, he never will! :)

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Thanks! :)

68
  ·  6 months ago

Wow, I'm so glad that you made this post because I didn't know why people were so upset when they get few flags. They totally forgot about the other upvotes( a lot of them) and they care about that flag. Why they flag my post? Is not going to flag you forever! And is not going to flag only your post.
It's for a better good for this platform and I think how long whales gave us the money we get every post, we should be thankful enough.

If you would like to increase your voting stake, ​though, then you have the option of purchasing more Steem Power through your Steemit wallet.

This what the whales did to have that power! How many of us did the same thing? Yes, I know the answer! Just a few, but still people get upset for one bad thing and forget about the rest of 100 good ones! I love this post!

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Agreed :)

One small technicality though. A lot of the current whales did earn their stake through being a miner/witness at the very early stages to provide the infrastructure to launch the platform. Not all were cash investments. Many were resources/time.

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68
  ·  6 months ago

I agree.
Those people deserved that reward in my opinion because, they were as you said at the very early stages to provide the infrastructure to launch the platform, plus you can't be a witness if you don't have more knowledge about the platform than many others. Great post anyway, and I'm glad we have such great witnesses.
Now, I understand why @ebryans keep promote you as a witness, but I already vote you, so I can't double vote you right? Or can I? :D

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Haha, thanks! I really appreciate the kind words / support. No way to double vote, but if you buy more SP the one you cast will have more weight ;)

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68
  ·  6 months ago

I know, and this is what I'm trying to do almost every day. I'm not a rich person, but the SBD I earn from posting, I send them to poloniex and buy steem. This way I learn a little about trading too, so even if I buy it at a higher price I'm still ok with it because, ​in the end, I want steem!

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Very cool! Did you know that you can use the internal marketplace on Steemit.com to exchange STEEM for SBD?

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68
  ·  6 months ago

Yes, I know that ​but there I can buy also BTS.
I also like that coin, and to be honest I don't know so much about it, but here are a lot of posts about BTS, so I jump in every time I can!

59
  ·  6 months ago

Thanks for exploring the mechanics.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Welcome :)

56
  ·  6 months ago

Thanks for Sharing very Good Info
Upvote y Resteem

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Cool, thanks :)

63
  ·  6 months ago

Thanks for the informative post. This will help a lot of people who are new here. I, myself, ignore the reward until the 24 hour or so period closes. That way I don't see a high reward post get dropped or anything like that. I write, engage with others and let the payouts do there own thing.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

That's a good way to do it :) Personally, I can't help but to check where my posts are at. It's exciting, hehe.

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63
  ·  6 months ago

Honestly, I'm only really able to do that because I'm too busy most of the time to check!

67
  ·  6 months ago

About a week ago, I was trying to explain how the rewards work to my son. I came close, but this is much more simple. Thanks @timcliff

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Cool, glad it helped! Welcome :)

54
  ·  6 months ago

Informative. @kzollove read this

65
  ·  6 months ago

Thanks for this very clear explanation. I wish I had this when I first started but better late than never :)

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72
  ·  6 months ago

:)

45
  ·  6 months ago

love this post

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Thanks!

74
  ·  6 months ago

I'd suggest this be stickied. Personally since day 1, I've known that the fluctuating payout amount doesn't matter until it actually pays out. Like what I've said in another post - only count your chickens after the eggs hatch, just like post payouts :)

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Yeah, I will be submitting a pull request to add it to the "welcome page".

60
  ·  6 months ago

This is also why recently Steem value has a bit getting lower, money supply or money stock is increasing but the "spiritual" value also called confident or trust has not increased as much as the stock, so the value of each Steem has been getting a bit lower. That's also why some whales who's have been invested in Steem try to decrease the amount created each day, because they loose money (value) even if they keep the same number of Steem/Steem power.

54
  ·  5 months ago

Is the potential amount of Steem capped like bitcoin? Or is it just generating more and more forever?

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72
  ·  5 months ago

It is not capped, but the inflation will reduce over time. At HF 16, it was set to have an inflation rate of 9.5% APR per year. It is set to decrease by 0.01% every 250,000 blocks (Roughly 0.5% per year) until it eventually reaches 0.95% APR per year.

55
  ·  5 months ago

Thanks for the post:)

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72
  ·  5 months ago

Welcome :)

51
  ·  5 months ago

Awesome! Participation is key for this type of platform to work. Great post.

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72
  ·  5 months ago

Thanks!

67
  ·  5 months ago

Resteemed because we all should understand much better what is going on here with the so called "experiment" I decided to hold back for a while and stop posting. We are still in beta so I wait what's the value of all those recent downvotes @timcliff question : does it effect our reputation ?

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72
  ·  5 months ago

It will not affect your reputation as long as the payout stays non-negative. It is my understanding that all of the whales that are downvoting for this are doing it in such a way that it does not harm the reputation score.

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67
  ·  5 months ago

Super Tim ! Danke ! I read a lot today and getting kind of excited about it. Let's see ...

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72
  ·  5 months ago

:)

64
  ·  5 months ago

I've been around for couple of months, and I have to say It got cleared for me how the pool works just now :)
I was working on a video about steemit in my own language and this is going to help me a lot
thank you for the info

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72
  ·  5 months ago

Cool, glad it helped!

68
  ·  4 months ago

Hi @timcliff, I didn't see this post until today and it's full of great resources, thanks! One thing I'd like for decision makers to consider -
regarding the issue of downvoting for the purpose of reallocating rewards more equitably, the BIG problem with this is that downvotes affect a poster's reputation and thus a poor way to go about creating more equity.

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68
  ·  4 months ago

It's basically penalizing a content creator for their great work in the past!! Really feels crappy.

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72
  ·  4 months ago

As long as the post payout does not go negative, the user's reputation will not go down. If there is any positive payout, then the user's reputation will actually still go up - even if there are downvotes on the post.

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68
  ·  4 months ago

Hmm.. ok that's great to know. My rep went down 3 points in about a week or 2 after rising always rising steadily and the only change was hardfork 18 and the new downvotes I was experiencing for first time ever. What else would cause a lowered reputation?

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72
  ·  4 months ago

I don't have a good answer, without knowing more details. I've seen GUI discrepancies before, where it didn't calculate the number correctly based on what was in the blockchain. The best place to see if your rep score goes up or down is steemd.com. You won't see the calculated score (67) but you should see the raw blockchain number which should be easier to tell if it goes up or down. You shouldn't see cases where your rep score goes down from a post or comment that is downvoted, as long as the payout stays positive.

Note - if you start with X, then get upvoted worth 1000 points, then downvotes worth -800, you may see your score drop by 800, but it is still 200 higher than before the post. I.e. the net change is still an increase.

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68
  ·  4 months ago

Thanks for your response @timcliff, I appreciate it!

44
  ·  3 months ago

Neat, wonderful, easy-understandable. Thank you!

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72
  ·  3 months ago

Welcome! I'm glad you found it useful :)

68
  ·  6 months ago

Good post. BTW:

this value can go up or down.

Both upvotes and downvotes can be removed as well as added, which are four more ways that payouts can change. I'm sure you know this but the post doesn't mention it. Also market value change.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Thanks @smooth! I'll make the updates :)

42
  ·  2 months ago

very helpful

42
  ·  2 months ago

helpful

65
  ·  6 months ago

So it's just the way it is? Content creators don't matter?

Come to Steemit because the system is built that way to have some high stakeholder's opinion on how much you should earn.

That's like as if we built cars but no traffic lights.

Things need to change. There needs to be traffic lights.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Sorry, but your comment is borderline trolling. Nowhere did I say that content creators don't matter. They are extremely important IMO. It is up to the stakeholders to decide on what content is valued though, and by how much.

Things need to change. There needs to be traffic lights.

If you have a post with suggestions on ways that we can improve the platform for the better, send me a link and I'll gladly review.

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65
  ·  6 months ago

Well then why are people saying the system is fine the way it is? Because the current system shows content creators don't matter by a large stakeholder getting to say a content creator is earning too much so rewards rightly given to that author get's to be taken because to "distribute the reward pool how they fit." If a person decides to donate to charity, is that right for anyone to say a person is donating too much and allow to lower the donation amount?

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65
  ·  6 months ago

If a person decides to donate to charity, is that right for anyone to say a person is donating too much and allow to lower the donation amount?

If a person decides to donate his own money to charity, of course not, but thats not whats happening here.

In this case, a person is deciding to use his stake in the reward pool to support allocation to a particular post. Someone else is using his stake to support allocation away from the post.

If some whale wants to donate to your post, like a charity, he can reach into his (virtual) pockets and send you the money, and no one can gainsay him. If he wants to vote to allocate rewards to you, then you (and he) have to accept the fact that others can vote to allocate those same rewards differently. Sometimes in opposition.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

I don't know if you are misunderstanding how it works, or if you just don't agree with my view - but if a stakeholder reduces the rewards on a post, they are increasing the rewards for all of the other content creators on the platform. The content creators all still split the same reward pool in the end.

If your view is that this has a negative affect on the person who's post went down, then you are correct - but that is part of the platform. It is beneficial for all of the other content creators when a post gets downvoted, because then there is more money in the rewards pool for all other posts. This post is intended to clarify that, because it is how the platform works.

I would prefer not to get into arguments/discussions of how the platform should be changed. Those are great discussions to have, and I will happily engage with you in another post - but this post is for informative purposes. If there is information in the post that does not accurately describe how the platform works as of today, then let me know and I will review.

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65
  ·  6 months ago

You're post is accurate on how things work, I am simply commenting on that it needs to change.

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58
  ·  6 months ago

Think of how FB, google, reedit or amazon uses very big and expensive proprietary programs to show you what you would like, they also use employees to tweak what gets seen and what is "lost". Nothing wrong with those companies.
This is just how steemit is designed to be. Most people are here because steemit has a lack of traffic lights. Some do not enjoy us anarchist who like driving in Mad Max world. Think about it, you feel alive when you live outside a echo chamber bubble.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

As a fellow anarchist. This is not anarchism. It is better than norm, but it still imposes rules upon others. I don't know that true anarchism could work in this environment so that is not what I am proposing.

Also the anarchists that designed steem/steemit (tend to be closest to Anarcho Capitalist variety) likely follow the Non-Aggression Principle.

This does not have a way for you to cancel out the desires of another person with your own. So this is not truly anarchism. Though like I said, I don't know that true anarchism would work here. This is an attempt to get as close as possible without actually achieving it. I assure you Mad Max world is the mainstream current day interpretation of Anarchism as in chaos, violence, wild west, etc.

That was not the goal here, and isn't the goal of Anarcho Capitalists, or Anarcho Communists. We simply don't like rulers. People that can force other people to do certain things against their will.

We like leaders just fine. Those people that lead by example and we can choose to follow or not follow. :)

52
  ·  6 months ago

That was well explained. Thank you. Upvoted and resteemed.

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Cool, thanks! Glad it was useful :)

72
  ·  6 months ago

Excellent work as always @timcliff sir, very good information thank you very much

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72
  ·  6 months ago

Welcome @jlufer! Thanks as always for supporting my work :)

58
  ·  6 months ago

Very helpful information. Thank you!

73
  ·  6 months ago

So much to read. I liked the site better when all we had to know was ...

"Post, Vote, get Paid!"

;)

KiSS