The Old Dog Discusses: The Tax Man Commeth! Will Someone be Building an App?

in #taxes6 years ago (edited)


Yes I know, who feels like talking about taxes! I don't, but here I go!


As more and more regulations are being put on crypto I think that it will become increasingly important that:

  1.  We are aligned with projects that are compliant (if not they risk legal action!).
  2. We inform ourselves as to what our tax obligations are and we do our best to pay as little as possible.


Up until this time the authorities in the  jurisdiction of Switzerland where I live have been taking a wait and see attitude and I haven't had to worry about taxation. Things are changing though. 

Just last week an article appeared in our local paper which explained some changes to the tax laws and I've done my best to translate it from the Italian for you. I have put the main points of the article in bold.



Photo credit: Pixabay.com

This is The Translation of an Article That Appeared in Our Local Paper


Most likely things will be somewhat similar in your area. If you take the time to read it through you will see that the article speaks of Capital Gains (which are not taxable where I live in some instances) and income through mining. Since we are in a sense doing mining (with our minds as it were) it would appear that this will qualify as taxable income.


Here's the article which was written by Samuel Vorpe:

 The Taxation of Crypto Currencies!   (Giornale del Popolo March 6, 2018)


In recent times many people have been infected by the fever of crypto currencies and have decided to invest part of their assets in virtual money. The latter, in addition to constituting an investment, are also increasingly used by people as a means of payment without the need of using a financial intermediary.    

Just yesterday the division of the contributions of the Canton Ticino, following what has been done also by other cantonal authorities (Zurich, Zug and Lucerne) has published its practice to facilitate a correct tax declaration of crypto currencies. First of all it should be noted that the possession of units of crypto is, from an economic standpoint, comparable to the possession of cash or precious metals and therefore constitutes part of a persons assets.   

Not only Bitcoin, but all crypto currencies are subject tax declaration (e.g. Ethereum, Onecoin, Dash, Litecoin, Ripple, etc.) and are taxable income for the purposes of tax on the substance on the basis of the value at 31 December.   

The value of the crypto currency is determined on the basis of official lists issued by the Federal Tax Administration (FTA). The tax office therefore considers the crypto as true foreign currency.    

If we take Bitcoin, at the end of 2017, its units corresponded to a value of CHF 13.784,38. This amount must be entered in the tax declaration, in particular in the form of the list of securities and other placements of capital under the heading "Other values and credits". As evidence, the taxpayer may include with the declaration a print of the CD "wallet" (the digital portfolio in which are held the crypto currencies).   

Since the acquired crypto is essentially equal to performing a "currency exchange", what is obtained is a gain or loss by the taxpayer. As regards tax on income, since crypto qualifies as a security, it is necessary to assess whether these coins belong to the owner privately as a taxpayer or to a commercial entity.   

When they belong privately to the taxpayer, the profit achieved is, in principle, exempt from tax (art. 15 para. 3 LT, art. 16 para. 3 LIFD), resp. losses are not deductible.    

When instead they belong to a commercial entity, the profit is taxable, while losses deductible (art. 17 para. 2 LT, art. 18 para. 2 LIFD).   

 It must however be noted that in the course of the years the jurisprudence of the Federal Court has made it more difficult to achieve exemptions from income tax. According to the Federal Supreme Court the profits deriving from an activity that goes beyond the simple administration of private resources represent an income from gainful activities independently and also goods used for such activities constitute commercial goods, even in the absence of any activities organized in the form of a real undertaking.    

The AFC has therefore published in its circular  n. 36 of 27 July 2012, which is also applicable to cases of crypto currencies. In this document are defined criteria that, if CUMULATIVELY FULFILLED, exclude the taxable income of  capital gains achieved.    

Finally it can also be noted that payment of wages and salaries in crypto are also taxable as well as the crypto gained through mining.     


Steemit And Tax Planning


Since we are working with an open source blockchain it should be fairly easy to extract all of the data necessary for an income tax report (as distasteful as this may be).

I would like to see the development of a program that could "pull off of" the blockchain the data pertinent to individual Steemers in their personal jurisdictions. The app could, for instance, differentiate  between what was a capital gain and what was "mined". It would also be capable of doing so after having specific search periods or dates entered.

Not only would such an app help individual Steemers but it could protect Steemit.com from any claims that it was not interested in compliance.

Would You be Interested in Helping to Build a Tax Planning App?


Perhaps an App which helps with taxes already exists and if so please let me know in the comments. If not, would you be interested seeing one made or even in working on such a project?

The project could be funded by writing progress reports about its development and I'd be willing to help in any way possible.


What are your thoughts on this topic? 



Until next time,


@kus-knee (The Old Dog)

Let's Succeed Together!

 


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Even though taxation is theft and I disagree with it on all accounts, I am at a point in my life where it would be more sensable for me to stay "legal". That being said, I would definitely welcome an app of this sort.
@jesta has already created a script that will pull all of this info for corresponding account/accounts, but you have to be technoligically inclined to a certain level to know how to use it....which I'm not. Lol

I hear you, I understand you and I feel for you! Thanks for the insight on @jetsa's script.

Luckily, staying "legal" doesn't necessarily mean "paying". ;)

You bet!

Ciao Old Dog! Visto che siamo compaesani ti scrivo in italiano. Non me ne intendo molto ma, che tu sappia, c’e una soglia minima per la dichiarazione delle tasse? Cioè, indipendentemente a quanto ammonti la somma dei guadagni in capital gains andrà dichiarata?
In queste cose sono abbastanza una capra.

You are not taxed on capital gains. You can be taxed on your “sostanza” but only once it is over 300,000! Of course there are many deductions including your mortgage if you have one so it’s not so easy to get to that level.

At that point it is 1% of every Franc over that amount.

Tax on the mining aspect is another thing since it is considered as earned income.

I will be speaking with my accountant more about this but in the meantime @steemitri posted a link to the circular put out by Canton Ticino in comments here.

I guess I’ll stick to english... Thank you! And thanks to @steemitri as well. I’ll rely on you guys to not end up in jail : )

Tutte e due vanno bene!

If I can be of any help let me know. Over 7 months, I've been building an e-book for U.S. Taxpayers including a dedicated section for Steem. It is the theory side of crypto taxes, not an app. I wouldn't be particularly useful for development, rather testing expected outcomes; at least from a U.S perspective. I recently reviewed Coinbase's tax tool for example.

Ok thanks a lot. I'm going through the information that a few users here have pointed me towards and I hope to get back to you.

Well, first off, this should not be construed as advice to avoid taxes. You should pay your taxes and otherwise be a law abiding citizen.

That being said, you can't use bitcoin to avoid paying your income taxes.

When people talk about avoiding taxes with bitcoin they are usually talking about capital gains tax.

That is the tax you pay on investments, like stocks or bonds. In most countries this is 20% or above.

As bitcoin exchanges are not currently required to report the trading activities of their users the government cannot know what you may have earned or lost in trading bitcoin, though as a law abiding citizen, you are supposed to report it on your tax return. Thereby illustrating how the unscrupulous may avoid taxes, by simply forgetting to report earnings.

But you wouldn't do that right?

Yes it is a complicated issue.

What could the future punishments be for people who refuse to report though? My guess could be surveillance, scrutiny by law enforcement, possible investigations, it may not be worth it.

Very good topic for me. Mining is same as earned income and regular taxes can apply to it and capital gains occurs when our bought crypto appreciate in value and we cash it in our currency. There should be an app to differentiate the both as pointed out by your article.
The problem can be the conversion rate to the local currency to tax the mining part. I think it can be the average rate for the whole year.
But there can be problem again if we have paid taxes on mined steem for a year based on that year's average conversion rate, what about if the price of steem appreciate in later years? Do they tax again as capital gain? I think it is going to be problematic as cryptorich pals will go the courts and taxman have to face many challenges to tax cryptos!

It is a complicated issue. Here they require a time stamp with value as of Dec 31st. The problem is that the value value Jan 1st could be 50% less!

Here in Switzerland we don't pay any Capital Gains taxes but there is a wealth tax on any value over Frs 300,000. I'm not looking forward to working through this problem but I will be speaking to my accountant here in Switzerland to try and work through this in least painful way.

You could be a very valuable resource and reference point for Canadian Steemers and Crypto enthusiasts.

I will be back with more information over the next few months.

Owk to me this is good news even though I know some might think otherwise. I have always said that the problem isn't being taxed of regulations placed on crypto. Right now ,out major bone of contention is general acceptability if crypto. If we can't win that battle then we can't win the battle of taxing.

So I guess we should focus more on getting crypto out there until everyone agrees that crypto is a currency like every other currency as stated here...

The tax office therefore considers the crypto as true foreign currency.

Once wev been able to do this then we can relax and fight those imposing tax and other regulations on crypto.

Although I may not be so happy with the idea of bringing in taxes in to crypto, I feel it is duly necessary. I knew this was something that couldn't be avoided, the top 1% is still finding their way in.
If the taxes are used for the proper reason although, then I see nothing wrong with it. But will it?

About the app, I currently am in touch with a bunch of software developers who will be interested in something like this. Although I am sort of one myself, I don't believe I possess the skills required to pull this off completely.
Will be reaching out to them at once and will make a feedback here if the outcome is positive.

And thank you @kus-knee for your interest in trying protecting to protect steemit.com from any form of legal incompliance.

The•Hooded•Pantomath

here are a few things i have either wrote or rebloged over the past month or so. you will find them very helpfull

https://steemit.com/steemit/@louisthomas/226w4x3i

https://steemit.com/steem/@doomsdaychassis/gearing-up-for-filing-taxes-in-2018

https://steemit.com/bitcon/@the-bitcoin-dood/an-afternoon-at-the-accountants-crypto-taxes

read all 3 and you should be pretty good to go on where and how to gather the required info as painlessly as possible. hope this helps

sorry for the self upvote but i was trying to get this where it can be seen for the information contained.

Amazing topic my friend @kus-knee ! I enjoyed your content. Keep up the good work! It's always nice to see good content here on Steemit

Great topic and You pick a great topic Thanks for sharing
Perhaps an App which helps with taxes already exists I think there is no app available but we all interested to built such an app

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