Flagging Could Destroy Steemit by Monopolising Tag Whales

in #steemit8 years ago (edited)

Yesterday I made a post about @sterlinluxan, a tag celebrity who was lying about me. You can see for yourselves here . I got heavily flagged from the @dollarvigilante and @sterlinluxan. The second decided to evade the topic rather eloquently to maintain appearances. I tip my hat to him. He mastered the art of political correctness and manipulation. I am not even going to bother about the dollarvigilante. They are both really good with marketing. They dominate the tags of anarchy and anarchism in Steemit mostly because they have imported their lemmings from other social media platforms. Numbers matter. After establishing reputation, content becomes somewhat irrelevant. We all know this.
 


 
Personally, I think their approach to the subject of anarchy is over-generalised and propagandistic. They both got a hold of the basic premises of anarchy, rebranded it, and made a career out of the sheep following their nonsense. I am an anarchist myself. Their positions can be easily refuted and people like them are the reason people laugh at anarchic ideas such as Cryptocurrencies and even Steemit itself. I have already debunked their core arguments with this post. I don't think they hold the intellectual caliber to face arguments of this level mostly because it destroys the very essence of their marketing philosophy. If they did know how to answer, they wouldn't resort to blatant lies to make a point and bury the opposition with childish flagging—raising in the meantime as little attention as possible to the main point of the article.
 
 

The Real Problem


The excuse? I am not "polite" enough for their taste. Based on pop-culture etiquette they are right. Steemit beta is slowly becoming a politically correct arena where rhetorics lead the way. But don’t mind this. Since when people cannot even identify lying and indirect manipulative ways? I admit i choose to be forward and vulgar with my language for the sake of being a true person. Why though as a society here in Steemit, seeking something alternative, resorted to petty political correctness? How is this any different than the politically rhetoric games playing outside in the real world or other social media platforms?
 
 

 
The issue was not even that big. The whole thing started with a simple refutal of classic anarchic mantra. @sterlinluxan 's whole argument is that, apparently, an anarchist, is 'produced' as a result of state authority. This might be true for the majority of anarchists but it does not apply to all, e.g individualist anarchists. In the same way, one can be an atheist and still not hold religion responsible for the ills of society. Again. One does not always become an atheist because of religion. Once more. One does not always become an anarchist because of the state. In the same way not all Steemians are a by-product of Facebook. As you can see the point is not even ideological where one can expect debate. I tried to chewed this as much as I could. This is a matter about being able to make a simple inductive logical argument but still—it can get silenced.
 
Who cares about quarrels with ideological cheerleaders, right?
 

Enter Freedom of Speech


The point is, what one owes to do when a few people monopolising a tag, have the power to silence posts? Would you even bother writing anything? I spend hours writing my refutal to his lies only for them to get hidden and flagged. I got more flags than a gay parade in that post. Would it matter if celebrities are here leeching on their minions to make a living? How will Steemit turn up, if all tags are filled with a few celebrities where no one can refute their posts? Voting power can burry posts oil deep so they can never show on one's feed.
 
Facebook, Twitter, Google and Microsoft agreed to hate speech rules . It is one of the reasons I left facebook. I haven't used any "hate" speech although in political correctness, anything can be "hate speech" as long as you convince the majority what "proper" language is. People didn't even flag me for being inappropriate but rather because I disagreed with their leader. How fucking pathetic is this? Yeah, I know “is how the world works” but I didn’t join Steemit to get the same plate served to me.
 
 

 
If we are not allowed to speak in a certain way because someone might get offended, then we have done nothing in the realm of freedom. Freedom of Speech is the idea that we should be able to speak our minds however we want, especially if it offends others. Being offended is subjective, to each and everyone depending on cultural background, sexual orientation and general beliefs. If this form of political correctness penetrates Steemit, then concerning this aspect at least, all other social media platforms will be a much better alternative for the masses.
 
 

 
Sure, give your money to celebrity whale tags and not Zuckerberg. It makes a "real" difference while you earn pennies on the dollar... This is why it is important even for anarchists to avoid being in general "anarchic" categories where celebrities can manipulate them. This is why it is important even for non-anarchists to understand what is going on here. There is a thing called 'individualist anarchy' and it can be the solution to this statist-like flagging of the tag whales.
 

Reputation, reputation, reputation


Reputation loss works like a disobedience fine. Tags are similar to corporatist industries protected by the state. Once one gets monopolising power on their area, you are fucked due to the protective nature of the whales who want to make a buck on trending dolphins. If you don't like it, leave. People flock like mindless sheep in comments to just cheer trending posts even if they disagree. Most comments are just cheerleading. Users mind their language and try to appear as "proper" as possible. It is more pathetic than the Kardashians thumping up each other on facebook. Steemit is slowly becoming an arena for upvote and comment prostitution.
 
Most users of Steemit are grouped together to their leaders. This is the elephant in the room everyone seems to ignore. The ecosystem will only get more and more of this "celebrity tag monopoly" until a handful dominate. I am pointing these things out to @dan and @ned because I just experienced the effect of this charade (and luckily early enough) . I understand that this is a beta version of Steemit but I can't help but be very sceptical about the future.

__
If you don’t have anything to say don’t reply with filler content. If you don’t agree don’t upvote. If you like my ideas follow me @kyriacos. I will probably shit on one of your posts in the future but this is how real, honest people should engage with each other.

Sort:  

You keep saying @sterlinluxan has lied about you, but fail to give details what it is that he said about you which is not true. He argues with your opinions but it does not mean he lies.

You could turn this into an interesting debate but you chose to stay being bitter, act as a victim and spread baseless accusations about @sterlinluxan lying about you. Lies refer to actual facts, not opinions. No fun reading this.

Dude. Seriously. For the 3rd time. Here is the article with every point he made outlined. He paraphrased my words. He said things I never said. He didn't even offer a link to my post our of sheer fear for being exposed.

https://steemit.com/anarchism/@kyriacos/reclaiming-anarchy-from-bullshiters-a-response-to-the-lies-of-sterlinluxan

I could turn this into a debate if they both had the calliber to make comments underneath my original post. They didn't @innuendo. Look how much time I am taking explaining over and over my position while his posts does not even have a single argument based on the premises I outlined.

I can't understand how you can be so thick

He paraphrased my words.

This is what I also do when I make an argument and want to unmask what I think are the actual intentions behind words. My favorite subject is revealing totalitarian mindsets in people who declare to be freedom lovers. This misalignment is in most cases unconscious - the author is being manipulative but s/he is not aware of this fact and honestly thinks their intentions are good.

Let the reader make the ultimate judgment if this unmasking by @sterlinluxan, is valid or not. This is not an act of lying, this is the art of arguing. Please open up to this and I'm sure you'll find this very refreshing.

If your arguments are solid they will survive, no matter what @sterlinluxan says. But if there is some truth in his argument, you can learn a lot by engaging in a discussion and, as a result, revise your stance and make it even stronger.

We all have our demons (also known as our egos) that try to trick us. Nobody holds the ultimate truth. And this refers to all of us: me, you and @sterlinluxan.

Dude he made references that I am anarcho-communist and similar bullshit. If you are such an expert in "unmasking" manipulation then go check his "compassion" references with hearts and angels that appeal to emotion. You radar is not as high there huh?

I copy and pasted almost everything he wrote in order to clarify. We are on Steemit. You can actually copy and paste what the other person said. He didn't do it. He chose to lie.

My argument is simple. An anarchist IS NOT a product of state opposition. An anarchist can accept the state and live anarchic in his own terms by manipulating the state.

I don't have demons don't worry. I am pretty honest with myself. Too bad I can't say the same thing with about your psychologic-bullshiter

I don't have demons don't worry.

Saying this is a clear sign you actually do.

OK, do what you want. As it is, right now I don't even need to dig into @sterlinluxan's post to conclude his diagnosis about you was pretty much spot on.

I have read your post again @felixxx and your situation is a bit different. Here we are talking about whale tags. People dominating one area of thought. What you say encompasses this. Disturbing idea nonetheless.

People dominating one area of thought.

Well, I used Orwells term 'toughtpolice'.

How is my situation different ?
I didn't even get tagged.

In my post I predicted this would happen. 2 weeks ago.
Read again, thanks.

I have no business with any of the "celebrities" here. I came on my own, found completely new friends and allies, and, taking my own advice from my "Steemigration post", let the whales be whales.

Not that I'm unhappy about their votes, but I wouldn't stop posting even if all my posts remained at 4 cents or below even.

I am not taking any side in the dispute. BUT your concerns are valid; some signs seem to indicate that some, in their arrogance, think they are allowed or even destined to fill the role "moderators" played on the centralized platforms by downflagging content they disagree with or could have a negative impact on their reputation.

Who, on reddit, really took the imperative seriously to not use the vote buttons as indicators of agreement or disagreement?

And who, on Steemit, will do the same, DESPITE both buttons being in different corners of the screen instead side-by-side, having different design, different intentions, and one even issuing an alert pop-up?

How can a system that so emphasizes Social Darwinism and competition generate an atmosphere of mutuality, collaboration, consensus-finding and peaceful negotiation?

An old German proverb is beginning to reveal its meaning, I think: the tone makes the music. Let not the cacophony of the loud voices incite you to detune your own; sing your own melody, and try to find some resonance, harmony and melody with the huge, but equally "silent" choir of those who take the White Paper's promise seriously:

Steem is committed to enabling free speech and building a free society.

Steemit does not have to deliver on that promise, as @innuendo clarified to me yesterday. In kind and friendly words, I was told to fvck off and build my own interface to the blockchain if I don't like it, and [s]he is completely right.

The point is that soon interfaces will be offered with filters that don't give a flying fork for the payout and vote weight and sort by numer of upvotes instead, like reddit does, or highlights controversial posts. Or even filters out content that exceeds a certain SBD amount. Going even further and offering you total control over the filters you want to sieve the streem through. It is just a matter of time - until then, steemit.com is just a crutch. I'll follow you on steemstats as long as you make sense, if you bore me, you must hope I'll find you in some trending or created streem, if you get on my nerves, you land on my blacklist.

It can and will be that easy. Have you ever seen a sperm whales' phallus? Jerking a circle is a serious matter, so let us krill keep out of it.

You can serve severed heads all day on Steemit, you just need to put them on a silver platter.

Very well put @akareyon. I couldn't agree more. All evidence does look like an Orwelian like Steemit. It is hard to escape the usual conundrums of society.

great post i will be featuring it today in my daily pick of hidden gems :)

thank you man. Greatly appreciated

I agree. Flags should not be used to silence people you disagree with but not everyone agrees with that ironically.

I think we are seeing more and more people using the flagging option to get rid of posts they don't like which is not the intention of flagging. I suggested that once the whales started playing this game the smaller fish would follow.

I think some clarification from the Steemit team on what the flag is for would help with this.

It should be removed all together. Or at least put a downvote button next to the upvote one.

They changed the downvote to the flag because people were abusing it. I don't think there is an easy solution.

Remove it completely then. If you don't like something then ignore it

That isn't realistic in this system where a person or group can pretend to like something that is worthless or harmful just to extract rewards. There has to be some counterbalance, and a degree of consensus on what should be paid out.

Maybe a feature needs to be built in that if a member flags x number of posts, someone reviews the flags. If the reason isn't obvious, the person flagging gets one opportunity to explain the reason. If the reviewer isn't satisfied with the explanation the flag gets reversed. I expect a team of reviewers would be required. Human intervention wont be infallible but it may help to slow down the ones who use flagging with impunity now.

There is no "someone" in charge who can review things like there is at Facebook, Twitter, etc. This is a decentralized system where everyone is a moderator (yes, even you!). If someone flags something and you don't think that is appropriate, respond to their flagging with an upvote. The system counts (SP-weighted) votes and reaches a consensus.

I live by the rule "offend and be offended", but do not try to enforce censorship in others ever. Everyone is entitled to their own ideals, cultural, political and educative backgrounds apply at every single person on earth. Why take out that singularity to make it a dull "leveled" ground where everyone should think equally for the sake of other's comfort (even if it's under the stupidest topics)?

At the moment people start censoring ANYTHING, the moment when ideas grow dissappear. If censorship as a general rule is applied, lets prepare for a dark age on internet.

We are already living in such age. We are hoping Steemit will change this but my hopes are not that high...

@innuendo

Saying this is a clear sign you actually do.

Seriously. Is this the best deductive reasoning you can make? Level up

P.S: Here is another bullshit, manipulative, post from your friend. Maybe if you get passed anarchy 101 you will start thinking critically about the anarcho-cheerleaders you worship.

https://steemit.com/psychology/@sterlinluxan/the-many-harms-of-spanking-in-less-than-200-words

I'd like to interview you for the @steemsmart podcast. Can you email me? [email protected]. Ideally, I'd like to get you and @sterlinluxan on together so we can have a civil conversation about the plethora of important topics raised here.

Looking forward to your email.

Interesting outlook, I didn't consider this part of it. I have been looking for a viable alternative to Facebook as I am sick of the censorship there. I actually learned about this from the dollar vigilante. Thanks for explaining the potential pitfalls to how this can work.

@sgtkickarse

The devil hides in the details

I myself am a Classical Anarchist...but I followed @sterlinluxan from Facebook...You don't have to agree with absolutely everything he says...but he's looking at the Anarchy from a different perspective...Classical Anarchists are the 'centurians' guarding the gate...& now that we see many more joining the group...we tend to 'rise' up against it...but the entire point of Anarchism is elimination of the State...Fascists basically ARE the State within themselves...that is why we fight...I myself believe decentralization is the key...we're the pirates...the bikers...& the outlaws...today's Anarchists are emerging from professional ranks...but we still have the base elements of the Movement...the Revolution!

Coin Marketplace

STEEM 0.19
TRX 0.14
JST 0.030
BTC 63196.13
ETH 3385.94
USDT 1.00
SBD 2.45