How much of the rewards pool has been 'drained' by SteemSports?

5 months ago
69 in steemit

I have seen many complaints about SteemSports draining of rewards pool. Some claims were as absurd as 50%.

I've decided to look into the historic data, and see for myself.

Month% Received% Kept
December 20164.37%2.27%
November 20165.73%3.15%

It turns out, that SteemSports has received a much lower % of rewards pool as claimed.

It is also worth pointing out that almost half of the rewards received have been re-distributed, 30% to Steemit writers and 70% to the players as Steem Power.

Source code is available on GitHub

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Sort Order:  trending
67
  ·  5 months ago

Honestly, when I show my friends the steemit platform and how it works. One of the best and easiest selling points is to show them how steemsports works, because they say something along the lines of:

Free Money for picking who wins?

I reply yes, then I help them sign up for steemit. So I don't see the bad part here. @steemsports def brings more people to the platform than turns them away and I think it is a cool idea. So what if the people who write it and do all the work keep some of the rewards pool, if that bothers you don't take part and do your own thing.

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70
  ·  5 months ago

you don't take part and do your own thing

I personally dislike this kind of statement (e.g. "Do your own business and don't bother other's business") because it is based on false presumption. There is no other's business unless it is based on Steem's reward system. Instead, it is our business, so every STEEM/SP holder can raise voice on it.

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74
  ·  5 months ago

Exactly I think people are missing the big picture. This can bring regular people into Steemit rather than just crypto people. I think tuck summed up the real issue in his recent cartoon.

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51
  ·  5 months ago

Good point,that's a good way to attract new users to platform.I like this platform,and after some time,i think many new people that come,will like it to.The word spreads...

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62
  ·  5 months ago

why you not give him your own money from your own pocket?

Another question... how in your opinion this model could scale?

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68
  ·  5 months ago

It scales by attracting more users into the ecosystem at all which builds Steem into a self-sustaining currency and economy of sufficient scope to develop a significant network effect yielding increasing returns. In that sense it scales the exact same way as paying bloggers (or, alternately neither do), but likely better because it is more accessible, engaging, and aligned with the prevailing attention spans and expectations of today's social media and popular app users.

BTW, if you want to reward blog posts, why not do so out your own pocket?

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74
  ·  5 months ago

I think steemsports would be great of they limit it to 1 game per day, seeing up to 4 games on the top of the trending page was not good for perception, but 1 game would be great to bring sports and gambling lovers onto the steemit platform

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68
  ·  5 months ago

Most people should not be looking at Trending (unless they have a particular interest in that sort of leaderboard) and I disagree with the current site design that often puts it up by default. It is a statistical summary that should be available for people who want to find it.

The users who play and follow the posts along with the writers who work on the posts likely enjoy and have somthing to contribute to more than one post per day (there is certainly more than one sports game/topic to post about per day). I don't know what the right number is, and what ends up on Trending (the statistical leaderboard) should be a function of how voter value posts and topics relative to other posts, not based on an arbitrary quota system decided by you or me. When there is one particular topic or type of posts that has captured interest and is driving growth then it will inevitably dominate trending, whether that happens to be steemsports or some other sports posts or something else entirely.

Another sort of page aside from the current trending that shows, for example, the top few posts from each of the most active tags or even a set of randomly chosen tags might be useful as well, to show variety.

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62
  ·  5 months ago

Most people should not be looking at Trending

So.. in that case... we have a serious problem if we consider rest of the world as "most people":

Trending page is first page shown to new users!

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74
  ·  5 months ago

everyone looks at the trending page. It's the first thing that people who are thinking about joining will look at. Having 4 posts from the same account on the trending page looks weird to 99% of the population.

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64
  ·  5 months ago

Yes, 1 or 2 games per day would be fantastic! Great idea, @Craig-Grant

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66
  ·  5 months ago

Since when is it the community's job to tell an individual account when it can post? If you don't want them to post often don't vote for it more than twice a day.

It isn't trending because they post, it's trending because people like you upvote it. and frankfully, I am okay with 4 articles trending, so I play and upvote. If you're not, don't play or upvote.

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74
  ·  5 months ago

I muted steemsports, so I dont see the games, but new users who come to steemit for the first time, the trending page is the first thing they see

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66
  ·  5 months ago

Then it is their job to decide what they think. If someone's not gonna join the site because of a silly reason like that, maybe we don't need them. I think to get new members we need to focus less on removing steem sports and more on marketing our product, adding more and more features to the structure of the website, and making the website more aesthetically pleasing. Trying to tell an account when they can and can't post isn't going to get any of those things accomplished.

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67
  ·  5 months ago

That's a fair point. 1 or two games per day would be fine.

Don't you lose value if you post more than four posts per day? Isn't that already a thing?

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68
  ·  5 months ago

Trending page is first page shown to new users!

quoting myself:

and I disagree with the current site design that often puts it up by default

Another sort of page aside from the current trending that shows, for example, the top few posts from each of the most active tags or even a set of randomly chosen tags might be useful as well, to show variety.

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72
  ·  5 months ago

why you not give him your own money from your own pocket?

Is this a serious question? You're asking a user why, instead of signing up another user that is given a pittance from Steemit, Inc's holdings so that they can actually use the platform, he is not just giving that potential new user some of his own money? Do you know what the purpose of the @steemit account is and why new users are given a certain amount of SP when they join?

And as @smooth asked in response to your comment - instead of voting on posts, why don't you just give people money from your own wallet? Wouldn't that be the morally righteous thing to do? Then you'd never have to worry about contributing to the "draining" of the rewards pool. Sounds like a win-win based on what I've seen regarding your ideas for the platform.

Trending page is first page shown to new users!

And this can easily be changed. However, the stake-weighted voting system cannot. Which one do you think is more likely to happen? Completely changing the STEEM/Steemit concept and the designed system, or displaying different posts on the landing page?

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68
  ·  5 months ago

Lol @noisy the money is​ not going from anybody's pockets! Steemit pays for posting, people upvote what they want and like, so tell me what's wrong about it?

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62
  ·  5 months ago

Lol @noisy the money is​ not going from anybody's pockets!

Lol²

First of all, there is no such thing in the world, like "Free Money". if someone receives money, that mean, that there is someone else who need to cover the cost.

Right now posts are rewarded thanks to dilution of whole Steem network, whan mean, that every shareholder of Steem need to cover the cost proportionally to own stake.

Steemit pays for posting

Probably you wanted to say Steem

people upvote what they want and like, so tell me what's wrong about it?

There is nothing wrong with that. I wrote a detail post about that:

How I figured out, why SteemSports is better than I thought, but still, why it will continue to harm Steemit if few things won't be changed

But at the same time, we need to remember, that users also have the rights to downvote whatever they want, because for example according to them is harmful to steem network.

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68
  ·  5 months ago

Steemit platform pays people for posting and they chose to let the people decide what post deserve to be paid.
I know that not all the people like the same things, but if a 'person A' likes a post and another 'person B' don't like that post, I think they shouldn't fight about that and they should focus on the things they like.
If you believe that all the people are equal, then their pleasures are equal to. Only because people have different opinions, that doesn't mean that the ​opinion of the 'person A' is better than the opinion of the 'person B' or vice-versa​!

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62
  ·  5 months ago

It would be great if we could have that system, but IMO that would be an utopia. Why this is not possible is really well explained in the best article which I read last month:

Why Down Votes and Flags are an Unavoidable consequence of Game Theory by @bitcoindoom

Steemit platform pays people...

To be precise: not Steemit, but Steem network

Steemit platform pays people for posting and they chose to let the people decide what post deserve to be paid.

I do not have problem with that, right now the problem is with lack of clear vision of steemit. I wrote about that in my article which I linked earlier

Do you think Steemit suppose to have goal to become best blogging and discussion platform? Or maybe you think, that Steemit suppose to best generic browser of any content saved in Steem blockchain?

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72
  ·  5 months ago

Right now posts are rewarded thanks to dilution of whole Steem network, whan mean, that every shareholder of Steem need to cover the cost proportionally to own stake.

The dilution affects every user. It doesn't matter where the votes go. If you vote on @steemsports or vote on cat memes, the dilution occurs. It costs you nothing additional if people vote for @steemsports instead of cat memes.

So again, what exactly is the problem here?

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67
  ·  5 months ago

Lolz, you are missing the free part of my point. Money from my own pocket actually costs me money. An up-vote on steemit costs nothing.

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72
  ·  5 months ago

An up-vote on steemit costs nothing.

It amazes me how these people pretend that it's "their" money that is being used for post payouts. Sure, you can argue that it costs stakeholders by diluting their stakes, but this is an equal dilution, so no single stakeholder is losing a larger percentage than any other. Whether @steemsports gets the vote or some Commodore 64 game review gets it is irrelevant. It's a fixed pool that dilutes everyone.

So, no - it doesn't cost anyone a single penny out of their own pocket to vote on a post. And it doesn't deprive anyone of a single penny either. That penny was never yours and it isn't yours until you receive it in a post or curation reward payout. Enough with the nonsense. Learn how this platform functions before whining about it.

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64
  ·  5 months ago

We don't want thousands of parasitic beggars here, @titusfrost. Terrible logic.

65
  ·  5 months ago

These numbers help put things into perspective. I'm not a huge fan of sports betting but I was really happy to see that the top earning posts in Oct - Dec (@steemsports) were redistributing/sharing rewards with minnows. I applaud @steemsports for helping speed up the distribution process.

68
  ·  5 months ago

Great info, if there was a way to do it, this should be pinned on top of the feeds, or something.

When I joined Steemit, this place had a positive, fun community - I still like it, for the most part - but lately the in-fighting has made for a very toxic environment, and it's making it less fun to engage with Steemit.

I don't think we want that.

I also don't understand the, sorry, whining.

The whole idea behind Steemit was that we can get rewarded for content. Steemsports was an idea that would offer content and something to engage with. Turns out, people liked it, and it gets rewarded. I think that's how it should work. Steemsports functions well within the "rules of the system".

And it's not even true that Steemsports stops people from making money.

I'm a small time user, and I've made it to the top of and near the top of the trending page a few times. When I made it to the top, I didn't even promote that post at all, I was on vacation and had no time to even check on it. And I have no big whales autovoting my content, either.

I think people should just focus on their own content, instead of complaining about others so much.

Also, if you're being a constant debbie downer and attacking other people's work constantly, don't complain when you become unpopular and no one wants to click on your stuff, let alone upvote it.

And let's not pretend that every day there isn't non-Steemsports stuff on the trending page, getting big rewards.

I think that even the people making, say, ten bucks, twenty bucks per post (which is what I'm doing, on average) forget that we're making this money by writing blog posts. It's pretty cool to me, still. And I joined in August.

Anyway, good luck to Steemsports!

68
  ·  5 months ago

People are jealous and when they see someone on trending page every day, they don't realize that behind of all that, it's a hard work done by somebody, and that's the reward that person deserve it. I don't know what was wrong about steemsports!​

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64
  ·  5 months ago

I was not jealous but annoyed that half of the Trending page was Steemsports. It makes us look like a bunch of degenerate gamblers.

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68
  ·  5 months ago

When a post is on trending is because people want that, and they appreciated​ that post! It's not only about the gambling it's also about helping the minnows! I think you miss that.

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64
  ·  5 months ago

When a post is on trending it's because 2 or 3 whales want that. I think you miss that.

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68
  ·  5 months ago

@noganoo I think you didn't read all of my comment. I said that a post is on trending because PEOPLE want that and whales = people! At least for me whales means people.

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64
  ·  5 months ago

Ok so what you mean it 0.0005% of people on Steemit want that so they should have power over the majority.

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68
  ·  5 months ago

You can buy steem and become a whale too! If you don't have the money to do that: Stop complaining and do what you like!

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70
  ·  5 months ago

I think people are rather suspicious when they find someone on trending everyday, questioning his/her posts really deserve it. Steemsports is a really good initiative but it shouldn't be an efficient way to milk the reward with helps of whales in favor of one or few people (it is still not clear who takes horded SP in steemsports)

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68
  ·  5 months ago

It doesn't matter who takes hoarded SP in steemsports because they must pay the people who are working for making those posts.

62
  ·  5 months ago

Thank you highest number i saw was 8% but glad to see the numbers of how much power was distributed that was not included when I saw the reports. Thank you for the info.

61
  ·  5 months ago

Thanks for these stats I was actually wondering this myself:)

65
  ·  5 months ago

Yeah people have just been jealous at the success of the steemsports. Also alot of people don't realize that most the people who will be profiting the most off the SP in the future, are going unpaid at the current moment. So it's a sacrifice now, with all the rewards later.

I think it is great to see a businesses like this one unrelated directly to the crypto world manifest from steemit. I am now Expanding my business into the online world. So seeing steempsport being successful just gives me encouragement.

I think people should be targeting the steemit system itself rather than the @steemsport. It is the system forcing at least 50% SP and it is the system that creates the trending page.

Steemit is growing, these things will happen. @steemsport is just the first one to successfully expand a great idea and dominate trending like this. I promise you it will not be the last. Steemit needs to adapt quicker.

65
  ·  5 months ago

I've thought the attack on steemsports has been a bit unfair. thanks for doing this.

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60
  ·  5 months ago

a bit? It was completely unfair. note, that actually steemsport helped people to increase their SP. And at the end it received downvoting for that.

47
  ·  5 months ago

If steemit sport was here , would sell all my steem by now...

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55
  ·  5 months ago

do you mean "was not here"?

41
  ·  5 months ago

something new for me!,will take a look later.thankyou

70
  ·  5 months ago

It is also worth pointing out that almost half of the rewards received have been re-distributed

To clarify, it means " % kept" part (compared to "% received") in above table. So about 50% is kept as a fee and this maybe what you refered as "absurd 50%". Personally, I havent seen any gamble that the house takes 50% yet, and even if I find one I never participate in it.

Steemsports seems to earn 253 MVESTS so far, which is around $20k and I think its innovative move quite deserve this amount. But I am against that steemsports keep having that high fees, combined with being upvoted by whale supporters, that can result in effective monetization of whales voting power.

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69
  ·  5 months ago

No, by 50% I'm referring to peoples claims that steemsports takes 50% of daily rewards pool.
The 50% fee is the minimum allowed by the blockchain (as each post gets 50% in SP).

Also, SteemSports team collectively spent a lot more than $20k in man-hours so far, and we hadn't paid ourselves anything. Its all going towards marketing after the app is ready.

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70
  ·  5 months ago

The 50% SP can be converted and distributed to developers, writers, and users in three months now. ($1500 per week given the current price). I really value writers and devs work on steemsports so want to see more proportion will go to them at the same time more benefit users as well.

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69
  ·  5 months ago

I think it would be better to reinvest the funds for growth - acquiring customers from outside of Steemit. There are big sports/gaming markets out there that we could serve.

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70
  ·  5 months ago

Thats good too. And I think that more players will come when steemsports distribute more rewards. This maybe the best marketing.

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74
  ·  5 months ago

this is a great point, I have been thinking this all along, they can power it down and pay it out, hoarding the SP is "suspect" in my view

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64
  ·  5 months ago

That is what I suggested like 2 months ago when I found out they are keeping 70% of the post rewards. While the hundreds of players split the remaining 30%. 60/40 would be much more fair in my opinion.

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65
  ·  5 months ago

You can't forget the SP was on a 2 year lock in the beginning.. there was no alternative but to pay out the money received and hang on to the SP. Thats not a rake - that's forced savings.. and its an unrealized amount (could be worth nothing tomorrow). How would you do it differently?

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70
  ·  5 months ago

Thats a fair statement a month ago. But given the shortened period, distributing SP is easier if the owner is willing to.

54
  ·  5 months ago

I love steemsports and it's fun to interact on Steeemit. It's a real buzz when I get the right team. Thanks for clarifyin g the facts @furion

67
  ·  5 months ago

Well done on getting those facts, I hope to see more bets from @steemsports in the future.

58
  ·  5 months ago

Of all the accounts who earn a lot of rewards, seems weird to worry about SteemSports when it redistributes most of it.

And while it might not be a breakthrough in 21st century thought, it probably is more likely to engage new users than most other blogs. Clicking for the chance to win can plant some interest and reason to come back.

It's funny how people complain that the whales have too much power and stuff, and SteemSports, if you forget about the sports and just look at the mechanics of it, is essentially a redistribution model that's most favorable to people without SP and without an established presence on here. And then people want to complain about that too.

Of course it's always a guessing game how much someone "should" get and what's actually best for steemit, but I think the criticisms of SteemSports generally ignore the actual outcomes of it.

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70
  ·  5 months ago

Be noticed that only 35% of author reward is redistributed to players.

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58
  ·  5 months ago

Okay true, I was thinking "70%", I forgot that was only of the liquid portion, I shouldn't have said "most" of it.

Same idea of course, that they're not pocketing the whole thing and we should remember that, but definitely a bit different than how I worded it. Thanks for the correction.

50
  ·  5 months ago

outrageous post my m8 ! i had a smiliar taught on my mind as well. Follow for follow ! :D

64
  ·  5 months ago

Steemsports has made being here more bearable, it's not easy being on the wrong side of the programming.

My only suggestion is that the powerdowns be distributed on a per vote basis.
One vote, one share.
The premise given me, initially, was sp redistribution from the whales to everybody that played, and won.
I don't see how folks can fault that.

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64
  ·  5 months ago

For certain there would be far less to criticize if a greater share went to the participants - they should consider this. We very much like the idea that they will be spending money to promote STEEM / STEEMIT via their app, bringing in more users of STEEM .. providing a greater share to players just makes good business sense - the more benefit the greater the engagement, and the easier it is to sustain.

67
  ·  5 months ago

There's so much potency to this knowledge and sharing of it all that it has to be shared. Thanks a bunch, all for one and one for all, namaste :)

64
  ·  5 months ago

Clearly, apologies to the @steemsports crew are in order and the pointless, community destroying attacks should cease!

60
  ·  5 months ago

Finally someone posted this! Thanks for pointing this out with figures :)

65
  ·  5 months ago

I want to make sure im understanding your numbers right.... Are you saying 5.73% of the part of the reward pool for blogging, or 5.73% of the total reward pool for those months? because the two are different, though i don;t know what percent the blogging rewards are anymore since HF16.

Also, as a part of a budget, which is what the reward pool really is, 5% is a big number. Even if how much you redistributed is germane (which i don't necessarily think it is, though i accept that there are some who would disagree) thats still 3% of the entire pool for one guy running one business.

3% and growing of course., because then theres the steemy games, and whatever you think of next to increase your marketshare.

Also, ftr, i don't think ive seen any post saying that SS gets 50% of the reward pool.... i think youre refuting a straw man.

65
  ·  5 months ago

I downvoted this post.

I have not seen anyone who thinks that SS is getting or has gotten 50% of the reward pool, and i don't think $200 is a reasonable amount for steem to pay for someone to look up how much SS gets monthly and post it. Especially when that someone is the guy running steem sports.

The response to hey we got 5% of the reward pool for the past two months should not be an additional $200 payment

Especially when its right around where most people would expect expect it to be.

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68
  ·  5 months ago

I actually did mis-estimate it at 50% once in a comment (not a post) once. I'm not sure if that quick (and incorrect) estimate went any further than that thread but if it did I might be responsible for the incorrect perception. I apologize to anyone who was misled by my carelessness.

64
  ·  5 months ago

Thanks for running the numbers more thoroughly than my quick and dirty calculation.

If @steemsports did start taking larger portions of the pool, I would object and use my flag. I am not fundamentally opposed to funding games of chance/prediction with the reward pool, a few percent does not seem unreasonable.

60
  ·  5 months ago

That's perfect, we want to see more people using steemit

57
  ·  5 months ago

I fully support Steem Sports. if they are top trending with multiple posts I say congratulations!