Steemit Paid Voting Bots Guide Part 2: Return on Investment (ROI) with actual numbers , not speculation: @RandoWhale, @Booster, WhaleShares

in #steemit5 years ago (edited)


This is Part 2 of a three part series where I talk about how to use the bots. Links to the other parts:

I have read a few guides from authors on these bots, but they don't seem to talk about specific numbers...it's mostly speculation on what they think the earnings are. Without knowing the earnings, you are just gambling. This post will focus on the numbers, profitability, and strategy for using these bots.

If you want to know how to use the bots, see Part 1 of the Guide.

RandoWhale

  • Cost: 2 SBD
  • Wait time between sending payment and receiving vote: About 1 minute
  • Methodology: You send 2 SBD, and this bot almost instantly votes for your specified link with a randomly selected value from 1% to 5% voting power, for an average of 3% voting power.
  • Limitations: Can only get a max of 5% voting power, can only get 1 upvote per link, if you send an amount that is different from exactly 2 SBD you will lose your money. Also, if you accidentally send money to @RandomWhale (correct is @RandoWhale), you will lose your money and not get an upvote.

Booster

  • Cost: However little or however much you want
  • Wait time between sending payment and receiving upvote: Could be anywhere from 1 minute to 2.4 hours
  • Methodology: There is an open period of "bidding" where anyone can send SBDs to @booster with a specified link. Each open period is 2.4 hours, at the end of that you get a vote where the voting power is based on how much you contributed compared to everyone else.
    • For example, if 3 people submit 1 SBD each, all 3 get the same amount of voting power as a result. If, however, person A submits 2 SBD, while the other 2 people submit 1 SBD each, then person A will get twice the voting power compared to what the other 2 people would each get.
  • Limitations: Can only get 1 upvote per link.

WhaleShares

  • Cost: Minimum of 1 whaleshare, max of 100 whaleshare
    • 1 whaleshare costs between 40 cents and $1 USD each.
      • 1 whaleshare costs between 2 to 5 BTS (Bitshares) today. A Bitshare has been trading around 30 to 32 cents the past week NEVERMIND...looks like it tanked down to 20 cents over night!
  • Wait time between sending payment and receiving upvote: Could be anywhere from 1 minute to 4 minutes. It's fast, but not quite as fast as randowhale, because you have to wait for the whaleshare payment confirmations.
  • Limitations: Can only get 1 upvote per link (although sometimes I'm actually get 2 votes), have to make sure you send payment to whaleshares (and not whaleshare), have to make sure you buy whaleshare (not whaleshares). Hope you're not confused yet...because both accounts and both types of shares exist.

Which bot is better?

For ease of use, @randowhale and @booster win. For getting a huge dollar value upvote like a boss, whaleshares and @booster win. For speed in getting an upvote, @randowhale and whaleshares win. It's a 3 way tie...unless you have a preference over ease of use, speed, or size of upvote. To me, speed is the most important so I don't like @booster as much.

Timing of Upvote

To figure out how much money a bot will generate for us, we need to talk about a really important factor, timing! How much curators get vs authors get would take up a whole post to discuss, so I will just cover the high level basics here. The author will get 75% of what a post generates at a minimum, the curators (upvoters) will get 25% at most. 30 minutes after the post was created, 100% of money generated by upvotes will go to curators. Before 30 minutes it's on a sliding scale. Let's look at some examples of who gets money generated from an upvote at various minutes after the author posts the blog:

  • At the 1 minute mark: Author gets about 99%, upvote pool get 1%
  • At the 15 minute mark: Author gets about 87.5%, upvote pool gets 12.5%
  • At the 29 minute mark: Author gets about 76%, upvote pool gets 26%
  • At the 30 minute mark and later: Author gets 75%, upvote pool gets 25%

At the end of 7 days, the upvote pool is split up between all upvoters based on your weight. Weight is determined by your voting power, voting capacity, how many people upvoted before/after you, how many minutes after original post you voted. To maximize curation rewards, you want to be the first upvoter and you want to upvote at the 30 minute mark...which almost never works out.

Understanding how curators vs the author gets paid is very important when deciding which bots to use and when to use them.


Show me data!


This chart shows how much you (the author) gets from these bots X minutes after you post the blog. The boxes in black represent unlikely situations. You would have to time booster auction end time with your post time perfectly and get lucky to get an upvote at the 15 minute mark or sooner. With Whaleshares, you are waiting on the transaction to go through, so a 1 minute upvote is highly unlikely.

But wait, it's not that simple! Unless you have been living under the rock, you may have noticed that your post values decline as days go by. Let's assume you lose 20% to 30% of the total value by the time day 7 comes around. How do the earnings look now?

30% payout decline

25% payout decline

20% payout decline

If you believe the payout decline is only 20%, then you can maximize direct monetary return by using bots in the first 5 minutes. If you believe the payout decline is 30% or more, the best direct monetary return is to use the bots at the 6.5 day mark.

Let's get to the business already!

At 70% author rewards, the bots don't actually give you a direct monetary return. Let's assume I spend 2 SBD on each of the 3 bots, what do I get at the 6 day mark, which I'm saying is the time of best monetary return? Today, 2 SBD is worth about $2.20

  • $2.20 USD (about 2 SBD) @Randowhale investment at the 3% average voting power: 70% x $3.79 = $2.65
  • $2.20 USD (about 2 SBD) @Booster investment: 70% x $2.37 = $1.78
  • $2.20 USD (about 2 Whaleshares): 70% x $1.65 = $1.16

I have used the bots to upvote 3 separate comments below, so you can see their initial value and value as it fades over time. My perception was that you lose money on average from all 3 bots. Randowhale made money...I didn't believe it, so I ran it on two different comments on this post. Rando was profitable on both...I still feel like I have lost money in the past, but I can't argue with today's numbers. 2 of the 3 bots lost money, only randowhale made money.

Other things that will vary results is how much power each bot has and how much 1 SBD, whaleshare, and bitshare is worth at the time you use the bots. The bots may change their voting algorithm from time to time as well. Either way, you will lose money unless something major changes. The bots exist to make their creators money...they are a business so it's safe to assume you will lose money on average.

But, wait...there may be another benefit to using the bots!

If you found this post helpful, please upvote and then move on to Part 3 of the guide. Part 3 will talk about will show you the benefit and why I use the bots.

Sort:  

Please do not upvote this comment. This is to show you how much @Randowhale gives you for 2 SBD.

I received $5.65 from a 4.5% powered vote. On average you get 3% vote, so that's $3.77 on average before the fade. This seems unusually high, so going to try again.

The payout from Randowhale seems much higher than usual, so trying rando again on this comment. Please don't t upvote this comment.

I received $4.57 from a 3.6% powered vote. On average you get a 3% vote, so that's $3.81 on average before the face.

so it is possible to upvote comments too? I see some comments with many whale upvotes ie consistently . What type of bot are the commenters using?

You can with randowhale and booster...but not with whaleshares. With rando/booster it does leave a comment, so that's obviously the indicator. Maybe people have a ton of steem or get friends/other accounts to upvote their comments.

Tried @randowhale again. It's now back to a loss. 2 SBD cost (about $2 USD) to get $2.56 x 75% author reward = $1.92. And that's at 3.5% power...average is 3%, so that's $1.65 on average..so a 17% loss.

I agree..I notice group of people that gets almost 10 upvotes any time they comment and names of some top whales are in the comment upvotes..guess it is a piad bog, we have to open our eyes and earn in order to play smart

A lot of people use auto voting bots like steemvoter. Check out some of the youtube videos on it. You'll quickly see the strategy people are using to pick what content to vote on.

Thanks for the info, will check it out

Btw...I see you're using whaleshares on some of your post. Curious, what kind of return are you getting? I was losing too much using it in the past so haven't tried in over a week.

ROI is very small. Its merely a loss because of the high cost and low voting power. However I use it to boost a bit better than minnow support or randow whale . And you? what is your experience? any better deal?

Please do not upvote this comment. This is to who you how much WhaleShares gives you for 2 SBD. WhaleShares actually doesn't allow you to upvote comments, but I saved the info from the main post upvote as $1.65

Trying the minnowbooster bot on this comment. I spent 2 SBD, which is about $1.98 in USD. Assuming no payout fade in the next 20 hours, the author reward return will be 75% x $2.42 = $1.82. This is a loss even with no fade. The bot had a voting power of 39% at the time of this vote.

Please do not upvote this comment. This is to show you how much @Booster gives you for 2 SBD.

This post got $2.37 from the booster upvote.

This comment has received a 2.03 % upvote from @booster thanks to: @financialcritic.

Very good post, upvoted. Does it mean that the ROI is negligible in all? thought that whaleshares value can reach 100USD

I wouldn't say negligible...it's negative in all cases except randowhale is a making money at the moment ...maybe because SBD lost some value, maybe because it recently added more power, or maybe my perception is wrong and it makes money on average.

Good point . However the advantage is the feel of popularity which leads to more people upvoting...

Haha, do you have post on how to upload pictures and this type of gig on post? I notice such in many commnts

LOL...just go to https://giphy.com and do a search for what's on your mind.

Thanks....you are good

Love your posts Aziz haha!

Thanks for this post and thanks for the info!

"The bots exist to make their creators money...they are a business so it's safe to assume you will lose money on average."

I am almost positive you are going here in part 3, so I'll just say:

We also have to consider the "promotional" value of these upvotes. Getting into hot, trending, catching eyes with a larger payout, etc.

But, I bet you did exactly that in the part 3 I am about to read...

You read my mind!

vote harvesters...
NOT curation

I have been using @randowhale in the hopes of attracting views->readers...I'm not sure if it's working...

unless this is forthcoming in your Part 3 ;>

Yes it is. Give me 30 minutes and you will see!

I just made a post about this. This information will be golden. I asked these exact questions. Keep up the investigations. :)

Thank you. This is an extremely helpful post for someone with a reputation of mid 40's. I will follow as your writing style is super easy to follow.

This is perfect. I was starting to work on these numbers myself. Nice job @financialcritic!

Hi, guys, Follow me and Upvote my posts in my blog and i will do the same thing!!!
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Wonder full... You are 100+% correct!

sounds really interesting,time to read part 3

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