Will you change your voting habits after HF21?

in steem •  last month 

With the changes coming (yes this is yet another post that relates to HF21) I am interested in finding out how many of you will change your voting behavior after HF21 comes into play.

Curation rewards are set to increase, from 25% to 50%.  We already see this on Palnet, and it's to my understanding Dtube are doing 100% curation.  So how will this affect how you or I vote?

Current Voting habits 

What way do you vote now?

At the moment, I have a mixture of auto voting and manual curation.  Any trails I currently follow are on a very low voting weight.  I have liked to support trails because it often aids the manual curation of others, such as the Helpie community.

I also support some ‘people’ on auto vote.  As these people get regular support most often these votes are <50% 

I like to vote on comments, most often when people engage back with me on my posts.

I vote for activity on my brand as it is a crucial part of encouraging learners to engage with the posts and to practice what they learned. Now there is not much activity, but I give 100% votes.  Again, this is on comments.

I don’t currently use all of my SP effectively and I earn very little in curation rewards.  After the above, I vote for what I like when I have the time for curation.  The size of the votes can vary, but I never consider how much in curation I earn.

Post HF21 Voting

What way will you vote after HF21?

With the opportunity to earn greater curation rewards, I have thought to myself that maybe I should consider how who and what I am voting for.  

At the end of the day, my priority will be voting on comments on my brand and rewarding those that take part in the learn and earn activities.  However, that’s still slow and won't use up my VP.  That is of course if my vote is worth enough after the HF to vote on comments!!!!!!!!!!  If it is not, then my whole business with steem is at a dead end.

With the changes in the reward curve as well as the downvotes, I am undecided on how I will vote.  Or how and if I will flag. I’m not sure if my trials will add any value and might be just a waste of VP.  

My auto votes for people, well that’s in need of review anyway.  There are plenty on the list that is not even active on steem anymore.  I still want to support people but again I’m not so sure after HF21 how much value my vote will have an I think I will wait and see what the best way is to do this.

I guess I really need to see the impact of HF21 before I can really make up my mind.  The first few weeks after won’t be a good indicator either.  We will really need to see things settle down, see how bid bots adjust their model and see what SP remains activate and in what way.  But I will be keeping a close eye after the rollout to see the impact this all has on my vote

None of this really considers the new flags we will have.  I haven’t really been a big flagger, but I have when I strongly disagree with how the regards pool is being used, engaged in a bit of reward pool redistribution. 

How will you use your new flags?

I look forward to reading your comments.

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I resteemed this because so far this and your post related to it (8 days ago ) explained hf21 in a way even no tech savy like I am could understand.
Even the comment thread on both posts helped understand what's to come.
We'll see ... I actually liked it before the changes came when they forked the system where in they had to drain the pool reward - back then, minnows have more chance of growing and we used to vote what we really like. Which fork was it that drained the reward pool again? That kind'a created a "pyramiding" effect imho. edit : I do hope hf21 isn't worse than that. Can't they just test it for a month and if it actually worsen's the situation, get back to how it was before or does the fork have some kind of a "point of no return/ it can't be undone" effect? - am not a witness so I don't know how the forking works really, forgive me if that last question actually sounds idiotic.

They won't do that. As far as I understand it it is about the rich getting richer and the writers/authors getting less (and the most active one's do not exactly belong to the top). They already decided to do this long before the so called test and agreement of the witnesses.

I am not understanding one word about it, still not the benefit of HF20. Social media that makes it impossible to socialize?


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hmmm then, I shall miss the great old days - back when many people write something we could really pick up value from and our votes weren't corrupted yet. Good old days ...

I am in a wait and see mindset as well.

I currently ...

  • manually vote for posts
  • vote on comments on my posts
  • have auto voting for some content creators that I want to support on a consistent basis

Depending on how things settle, I may need to vote higher on fewer people so that my votes are more impactful. I will let the dust settle and then re-evaluate.

Well we have a few week before the hf and a few weeks to settle so let's see how things look then 😁

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10 days you have

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  ·  last month (edited)

Will you change your voting habits after HF21?

I don't plan to change anything. I only upvote manually what I like. The trail my main account is following is led by an own alt account which also only upvotes manually.
I never optimized my curation reward (and don't plan to do it in future), for example most of the time my votes come in very late.

But just lets see what finally happens (for example concerning upvoting of comments ...).

not sure that I'll be changing much after HF21. I wont be doing any more downvoting than i do now which is pretty rare.

I'll likely be using the tipping tokens more on comments... will have to see how badly the new curve impacts VP

Did I see that correctly.. DTube is 100% curation? that would be zero for content creators?

I could be wrong but I heard 100% curation but creators automatically self vote at 100%

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Self voting is the answer?

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My read of @heimindanger's posts do agree with that. There are no author rewards in DTC, and all rewards are curation rewards.

I do not chase tokens, and am unconcerned with financial rewards. HF21 will not change this behaviour. I post what I believe, and upvote folks that seem to me to have support coming, for various reasons. I came here to participate on a social media platform that is was (see @fulltimegeek) remarkably resistant to censorship, and potentiates completely voluntary government to be effected. Steem has incredible potential to change the corrupt government and financial institutions we have inherited, so that we can leave just government and financial institutions to our posterity. I wish it was living up to that potential.

It's not, and HF21 is going to make that worse. I'll leave when it's time to turn off the lights, but I'll miss the honesty and integrity of folks I've interacted with here, including you. I do wish I was wrong about HF21, but I don't think I am. @steemit is powering down millions of Steem. I reckon they don't think I'm wrong either.

Opera Snapshot_20190812_092717_steemd.com.png

Seems to me @fiveart has it right.


Can you please explain to me how steemit can be a social media platform if people are limited to engage to others by their SP or whatever they call it? After HF20 I could only post once every 20 hours or leave 3 comments.
That is not what I call socializing. It took me weeks to find out how come and it is not something I can explain to people.

It does not make Steemit attractive.

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IRL we are limited by our financial position, and this does regulate our ability to interact in society, so IMHO that's not the actual source of the problem. Steem magnifies this limitation insuperably, as IRL we are far less limited by our financial circumstances than we are on Steem. Sometimes quantitative changes create qualitative changes, and this is exemplified presently by RCs on Steem.

I do not know what IRL and IMHO stand for/mean.

Sometimes quantitative changes create qualitative changes,

To be honest I can not say that happened but might be I have an other picture in mind of what "quality" is.

Thank you for taking the time to explain this.

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IRL - In Real Life, and IMHO - In My Humble (or Honest) Opinion.

Thank you for teaching me something 😀💕

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"but I'll miss the honesty and integrity of folks I've interacted with here, including you"
aweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee getting soft in these dark hours

but on a serious note, I hear ya and I wish I was wrong too, it's really not looking good. it be nice to imagine the witnesses rejecting it.

IIRC @liberosist has stated he will. He's unfortunately not 17 consensus witnesses. I've done all I can to dissuade EIP, but I'm not 17 consensus witnesses either.

I think people will just undelegate from bidbots and start selling their votes instead.

People are two things - greedy and lazy - and an increase in curation rewards meaning delegating isn't the profitable way, being really the optimized way to earn selling their votes, so they earn the vote selling fee plus the added curation,

Ah man the vote selling could get crazy

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Bidbots can just increase the returns from delegations to compensate for the curation rewards increase. I expect bots to be more profitable than ever as a result of HF21. No rational user will flag them either, since both the semi-exponential rewards curve will apply to flags, and the increase in 25% of the VP for flagging will dramatically increase the harm retaliation threatens from such hugely staked accounts.

  ·  last month (edited)

My voting is mostly manual with some automatic that follows the @tenkminnows trail. I like to vote up comments too and I may need to give larger votes for those to pay out with 50/50. It all drains my VP, so I may have to review things. I am not to bothered about my own curation rewards. I want to give back to those who make Steem worth using.

I will use the flags on those who deserve them, e.g. @crystalliu

I'm not so bothered about my curation rewards either, but I am concerned about my vote worth

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  ·  last month (edited)

I like to vote on comments, most often when people engage back with me on my posts.

That will be an issue after HF21, because most comments won't receive additional upvotes, so the payout for them will be impacted hard by the reward curve, on its initial path, before converging to linear.

...and I'm in the same situation too, liking to reply and upvote genuine comments to my blog.

I hadn't thought of that, but if you're correct, engagement will collapse. The more I give it thought, the more HF21 seems designed to destroy the social aspect of Steem. I am liking it less and less going forward. Sadly, I'm probably underestimating how bad it's going to be. I'm kind of an optimist.

Yeah, I haven't thought of it, really. I read it somewhere in a source I trust (don't remember where though), then I thought of it by myself and it seems the most likely way things are going to be afterwards.

With the low price of STEEM, thus a significant dust vote threshold, and the reward curve in HF21, the cumulative effects will be a hard blow to engagement on blog posts, unless performed purely for altruistic reasons and for the sake of engagement.

"...purely for altruistic reasons and for the sake of engagement."

Frankly, I am uninterested in interaction otherwise motivated. Why would I care about content that is only posted to earn money? Am I a cow producing that sweet, sweet milk?

No, I am not.

Well, this is how Steem / SCOT work. Based on a reward pool that is distributed, among others, to those who are upvoted for their engagement. So in a way the intent of the engagement is a little blurry, except in obvious cases. Even some good engagement may drop, if there is no reward involved.

On Steem, maybe this is not wanted anymore, going forward. Possibly the STEEM / SP rewards will be replaced in time by SMT rewards, so maybe HF21 is only the beginning that prepares the terrain for what's next.

  ·  last month (edited)

I will be pissed off if voting in comments dies

"I guess I really need to see the impact of HF21 before I can really make up my mind. The first few weeks after won’t be a good indicator either. We will really need to see things settle down, see how bid bots adjust their model and see what SP remains activate and in what way."

Honestly speaking, I have no idea.

I have never really cared about curation rewards, the %-amount or how many times I vote per 24 hours. I've been throwing around upvotes at random, whenever I've felt like it... And I've obviously realized that it's a "waste of power" and that I haven't been able to maximize the amount of curation rewards I earn by doing this...

The simple answer for this is that I like to reward others. I've always focused on my own audience first, and other authors secondly. So, whenever someone has written a comment on my articles, I've been rewarding them and replied to the comments. That was my goal from the moment I got here. Lately though, I've started to change my approach a little bit. On top of these things, I also use steemauto, just so I never miss to reward any of the authors I'm a fan of.

That being said, I have also heard about people earning a really good amount of curation rewards, even while they have less SP than me, so I am interested in finding the "right way" for that... But I don't know if that is something I will strictly follow after HF21 or not. I'll just have to wait and see, and I look forward to an article from you where I can see what your decision is. :)

I do look on @abh12345 league at the financial curation side, some people do very well. But I read cos I enjoy it, not to earn from it so curation rewards didn't mean much to me either. It be 6-7 weeks before I really make any decisions

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I will probably wait until either you or Asher shares an article about this before I make any changes. In case I don't realize that something is truly messed up before that. In that case, I'll probably just change some minor things. I don't mind waiting for valuable insight from any of you guys.

I will probably wait until either you or Asher shares an article about this before I make any changes.

Hahaha, I'll be waiting for the exact same thing.

P.S.: Good to bump into you again, @hitmeasap. It has been a while :0)

Haha yeah, it seems like it's literally the best thing I can do at this point. :D

Good to bump into you again, it sure has been a while. :)

I note your consideration of seeking greater financial returns from your voting will potentially change who you vote for. This is exactly what I refer to when I point out that curation rewards encourage the opposite of curation, profiteering, and why I also have never paid them any mind. The idea behind curation rewards I read in the Steem White Paper was to encourage people to vote for good content.

You and I do that without regard to curation rewards. Doubling curation rewards means that folks that do that instead of seeking the greatest financial reward from casting upvotes will be penalized twice as much as before for actually curating what we feel is the right content to upvote.

I reckon that's a terrible loss to society. Might as well just hack up a bot to maximize curation rewards without any regard to content or author quality at all. It's not really curation rewards. It's just votemining for Steem.

It looks to me that comment voting will be very vp expensive.
Already I have to vote >50% to not round down.
It must be even harder for the newbs.

The rest will depend on how the whale voting changes.
As we know when one votes everybody else loses money.
But, if the whale experiment comes back, our votes could stop being hit as hard.

Either way, I'm in now just to see the pariahs tarnish their reps further.
Waiting for the day that the duped true beliebers wake up and drive them from the ecosystem.

Yep votes on comment could become a thing of the past

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"...drive them from the ecosystem."

How? I used to think some of your statements were a bit harsh, but then I saw today that @steemit took out over 1M steem. Now I think you've been overly gentle. There's still no mechanism by which I can see a way to gain control over witnesses or bidbots. Stake has all the power, and the ninjaminers have more than enough stake to just flag any complainers into dust.

I'm just waiting my turn =p

The only hope we have is that the bad ninjaminers are corralled by the other good whales, or that interest in what steem could be persists until the bad actors powerdown and leave.

Otherwise, and we are just waiting for the last sucker to buy so somebody can shut off the lights.

I think some of the current dupes will be far harsher than what I've been, once they get clued in.

I am not going to change a thing. I already manually vote for posts I like. I have a hand full of people I auto vote because we are tight and I will always support them and they have never posted something that I find morally objectionable.

As for downvotes. How I use those also won’t change. Outside of stealing someone else’s work, poor quality is in the eyes of the beholder. A lot of stuff people call quality, I call boring. Things others might find to be junk I think are funny. So my downvotes will be reserved for spammer comments and such like they are now. Plus my vote value is so low my upvote and downvote don’t do much anyway.

it's good to see that you are happy with your voting and u wont let hf21 put you off track.

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  ·  last month (edited)

Personally, I won't change a thing: I will vote for the list of authors I usually support, all steemstem-supported posts (that I usually read) and all French posts voted by the 5-6 French communities.

I am however sad for the comments: I usually vote the comments to my posts, but I won't be big enough in terms of HF21 standards.

I'll keep doing what I'm currently doing. I vote manual because I'm a small account. I also am not stressing behind the upcoming HF21.. My hubby @wdougwatson reminds me all the time. Steem is an investment. So therefore I'm gonna ride it out and see where we go😍

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Not stressing is the way to go 🤗😁

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  ·  last month (edited)

I wonder if it would be possibile to pay half of the curation reward in liquid form (steem/sbd), similiar how it's done for the authors.

you always have had the choice of 50/50 on comment rewards when you're voting.

That's not on the cards for this HF

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I know, just wondering :) I like the liquid curation rewards for the tribes.

More or less I have the similar way with you on voting activity. I mixed it 😊

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I am in wait and see mode as well, but most likely I will continue as I am doing now just voting mostly manually on what I like for both posts and comments

Many of us are also on wait and see mode

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I think most of us are, time will tell I guess

I think my voting behavior will change considerably after HF21. As of now I do a little manual curation and the rest is automated. From what I infer from your post I'm afraid my voting value may go down. Is there any good documentation available about changes taking place after HF21?

  ·  last month (edited)

You will find info on @steemitblog and if u are technical you can also read the github stuff

Thank you.

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I vote for what I like and auto vote for a few good people. The hardfork won't make much difference to the small accounts really. Not with the weight we have to use for voting.

HF21 is due when?

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17 days

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I honestly have not had the time to really think about it but as I really had never considered to optimize (improve yes) my earnings, I just think I will continue engaging like I do today. However, I am always sure that I will adjust as we learn through the process. At the top of my mind is to distribute and create long term and sustainable value for the ecosystem. I look forward to the plenty of data analysis that will be available to review!

I doubt I'll use any flags unless it's just totally repulsive to my pallette. Voting behavior though, I've already adjusted and are encouraging others to as well. I, like you, have both auto and stick controls. They won't change as much as I first thought, but I imagine people will post less often, so finding things to effectively curate - that will become the challenge.

I guess I really need to see the impact of HF21 before I can really make up my mind.

I feel the same. I'm having a hard time trying to picture how it will be like after HF21. So I guess all I can do is sit and wait to see how things will turn out.

I'm in doubt about the flagging. I have flagged once since I've been here - I don't even remember why.
Thing is that I don't have a lot of trust in people being able to use the new free flags (or react to them) in a responsible and mature way. I'm afraid this is going to get completely out of hand...

Honestly I am not sure how this will play out for team minnow like myself ;)

My habits will surely not change.. As yu I also have some trails going on, this is also mostly so my votes dont go to waste but get used and its feels good doing that. I dont know maybe the curation awards will pick up after this but I can not imagine that this will actually do something that is actually 'worth it' for me.

So i will stick to my trails and vote manually on everything that I see popping by and I find cool!

To be honest I do not know what it means.
Not what curation is.

What I never do (or seldom) is voting on comments. My vote is less worth and lost if that person is not using @dustsweeper or @dustbunny and as I understand they will not be there after the next fork?

So your vote SP power and nickels are wasted I think 🤔.

People are still on Steem but perhaps less on Steemit. They go to planet or Leo or whatever is the subject they write about.

With me it is more difficult to leave here since I need a tool to sign in and only partiko works. As I understand planet has more to offer.

I intend to try to use that site since partiko let's me down frequently.

It is the 2nd fork I will meet now in short time so I see.
I noticed many are powering down, might be the steem is also needed to power up at other sites. They all ask Steem even Weku.


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Thank you so much for participating in the Partiko Delegation Plan Round 1! We really appreciate your support! As part of the delegation benefits, we just gave you a 3.00% upvote! Together, let’s change the world!

On my main account I will take a wait and see approach. I use a combination of Auto and manual voting too, but a little after HF21 will be a good time to revaluate.
One small change is I might visit the trending and upcoming pages more often and use my downvote when I disagree with rewards. It's likely that I'll spot a thing or two that gets an upvote too.

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I think the change will only affect the reward and not the voting pattern. There is every possibility that I will continue in my normal way of voting.

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