"Decentralized" YouTube Alternatives on Steem? Nope, Not Yet | A Detailed Look at 3Speak and Dtube

in #steem4 years ago (edited)

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With the current "YouTube Purge" news, the crypto community has been up in arms and it seems to be all anyone can talk about. It makes sense, as this is a space that prides itself on individual freedom and censorship resistance.

Sure this isn't the first time YouTube has removed specific content or perhaps all of a creators work, with little to no warning. But this time it affected the crypto community specifically,and it was pretty wide spread.

Due to this, many influential people in the space were calling for decentralized alternatives.

Which is great.

This is a wonderful time to highlight the decentralized social alternatives, like Steem (or the apps built on it), as we are solving part of this problem already, and working through the many obstacles that come with trying to build a decentralized social platform.

I have seen many doing so, sharing the name of Steem in conversations etc, our strong community is valuable in many ways.. and being a force of Steem promotion is one of them.

But there is one thing I have also noticed that I felt needed to be addressed;

Steem Is Not A Decentralized YouTube Replacement

No, it's really not.

Why Not?

Because Steem does not store videos on the blockchain, like it does with the text put into "posts". I say this as I am not sure many users know that. Which is ok, and to be expected.. as a user of a platform shouldn't have to understand every aspect of it to use it.

But I know for sure the many here do understand that, including individuals running video platforms on top of Steem. They most definitely know how it works.. they build on it after all.

You see the video platforms on Steem (like 3speak and Dtube) must store videos some way off chain, as the base blockchain storage does not work for them. Video is completely different than text.

The individuals who made these platforms, market them, and moderate them for sure know how they work, and therefore I find it quite baffling to see them stating anything to allude to the fact that they do provide a "Decentralized Alternative to YouTube"

Saying our name is great, attaching it to false claims is not

This is a great time for platforms built on Steem to show why they are a better alternative to centralized platforms censoring their users, 100%. But lying to them isn't a great way to start.

If we had a truly decentralized alternative to YouTube then there should have been a proposal put in for a massive budget to the SPS to get funding to advertise it on any site we could.. I would fully support this.

I mean what a time to have a complete decentralized option to the most talked about problem in the space currently...

But we don't have one, not yet.


I find saying we do, as some sort of marketing attempt, is irresponsible for a few reasons -

  1. Steem has a tough reputation in the space, and throwing out something that is completely false (for attention), only confirms what many already think. Steem is not a scam, let's stop giving people a reason to think it is.

  2. There are content creators that have lost their life work, as it was all wiped from YouTube when they were removed. This is a time where many are encouraging and educating on how important it is to back up ones work.. and they still need to do so on steem, as the same could happen here. Video is not stored on the chain.

  3. It's false advertising, and a damn lie.


But What About 3Speak and Dtube?

3Speak and Dtube are two video sharing platforms that have integrated, or built on top of Steem. Both offer many alternatives to video content sharing platforms like YouTube, but there is nothing decentralized about them.

While I do NOT think a platform has to be decentralized to be valuable (in fact there are many positive aspects to user experience that can be more easily achieved on a centralized platform), I don't think people should advertise it as such, when it's not. And that is exactly what they have been doing.

Neither of these services are decentralized, and that can be seen by simply looking at the data on their sites.


-Let's Take a Look-

3Speak

The project managers of 3Speak repeatedly imply that 3Speak is a decentralized, censorship free video platform on the Steem Blockchain. It is marketed as such all over twitter and elsewhere.

This is a message that many users of the platform have now picked up and ran with. I have even seen them censor people who try to point out that it is in fact NOT decentralized. Or better yet, when someone points out the facts or asks a question.. they are sent to the projects "roadmap" which states that some time in the future the platform would like to be decentralized, something they are working towards.

That's great, then they should be clear and honest about that. As right now, they are very much centralized platform, and saying anything else is just wrong.

So that this post is not just purely speculation or opinion, here are some code level points that prove it. Which can be verified by anyone, as this is all open to the public.

Video Upload

When you login to the 3Speak Creator Studio platform and begin uploading a file there are some very interesting AJAX requests being made. The first would be to: /api/upload/prepare and it returns some JSON like:

{
  "signed_url": "https://s3.eu-central-1.wasabisys.com/v--03-eu-west.3speakcontent.online/tPAiPWPtCUMKfLLPvHYWZoLBAzVvrolRLZCloYNUTFZiNwVXZjMVLRWVUamfxOrB.mp4?Content-Type=video%2Fmp4&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ICQE6DC2QSX9KQ6G1LUA%2F20191229%2Feu-central-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20191229T172554Z&X-Amz-Expires=25920&X-Amz-Signature=bbc3511dfbb8607ff2baf592518e35aeb7c53321bbde1885de38747c6f10486b&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host",
  "filename": "tPAiPWPtCUMKfLLPvHYWZoLBAzVvrolRLZCloYNUTFZiNwVXZjMVLRWVUamfxOrB.mp4",
  "duration": "2.229116",
  "original_filename": "3speak_exposed.mp4",
  "status": "ok",
  "video": {
    "encoding": {
      "360": false,
      "480": false,
      "720": false,
      "1080": false
    },
    "updateSteem": false,
    "needsBlockchainUpdate": false,
    "status": "uploaded",
    "encoding_price_steem": "0.050",
    "paid": false,
    "encodingProgress": 0,
    "created": "2019-12-28T22:46:49.500Z",
    "is3CJContent": false,
    "isVOD": false,
    "isNsfwContent": false,
    "language": "en",
    "category": "general",
    "firstUpload": false,
    "community": null,
    "indexed": false,
    "views": 0,
    "hive": null,
    "upvoteEligible": true,
    "_id": "5e08e1a2d393d54348d29874",
    "filename": "tPAiPWPtCUMKfLLPvHYWZoLBAzVvrolRLZCloYNUTFZiNwVXZjMVLRWVUamfxOrB.mp4",
    "originalFilename": "3speak_exposed.mp4",
    "permlink": "nngzpbgw",
    "duration": 2.229116,
    "size": 98588,
    "owner": "null",
    "__v": 0
  }
}


What Does That Even Mean...

I know that is just a lot of code most cannot read, but it tells us a lot about the nuts and bots of the platform.

Video Storage

From that returned JSON we learn a lot of details. First of all we now know that they use https://wasabi.com for their video storage, a centralized cloud storage provider.

This is how all the videos submitted to the platform are stored. Remember, video is not stored on chain, so it has to be stored somewhere and then can be viewed on the front ends. This specific storage method is common and many are probably familiar with the term "cloud storage."

This server is not owned by 3speak, it is simply a service they pay for.


Censorship Abilities

Another interesting return, in my opinion, is that in the returned video object you find fields like: "indexed" and "upvoteEligible".

We can only assume what the first one is used for, but my best guess is that it allows them to filter out videos from their platform. Perhaps that break the TOS, etc. Most front ends have something similar on Steem, as each front end is private and has their own rules or laws they must follow.

The big difference is that on Steem, we can access the information from another front end (if one removes it) or build a front end that access the chain (as it is all still readily available on chain). BUT video is not stored on chain, it is only stored in their rented cloud server, and therefore it cannot be accessed any other way.

The second field speaks for itself. They have built in the functionality to exclude specific videos or creators from their automatic curation. This is something they can do at code level.


Meta Information

There is one last very interesting thing that can be seen in this JSON response. Which can be seen in the "_id" field. Which simply points us to what database is used, which is MongoDB. We can see in the the offical MongoDB documentation:

The field name _id is reserved for use as a primary key; its value must be unique in the collection, is immutable, and may be of any type other than an array.

MongoDB is simply a centralized database for storage. This differs from the Wasabi cloud as it does not store the videos themselves, rather the meta information. Which includes the title, length, views, likes etc.


TDLR:

  • Wasabi.com is used for centralized video storage, there is no back up.
  • MongoDB is used as their centralized database.
  • There are ways coded in to disable rewards, as well as remove certain videos/channels.
  • Even though they have stated there are future plans for back up and decentralization, currently it is simply a centralized video sharing platform.


The SPK token

On 3Speak you will find a "Donate" button below the each video. If you click that you can donate SPK to the creator of the video. SPK is a token that they offer, and can be bought through their site. But what exactly is it? From the way it looks I can only describe it as the token of the 3Speak platform itself. As while there is one listed in the same name on Steem Engine, there are apparently only 40 SPK in existence there.

https://steem-engine.rocks/tokens/SPK/richlist?sort_field=balance&sort_order=desc

The SPK seen on their site is simply a token centralized to their platform and sold on their site (completely different than the one seen on steem engine). One core entity has control over where they go, and how many are in supply at any given time, there is no public decentralized ledger. Perhaps they have future plans for it though to become decentralized or convert to a SMT. But that is what it is currently.

Video Streaming

When you are on the site to watch a video this code can be found:

const player = jwplayer('player').setup({
                file: 'https://v--03-eu-west.3speakcontent.online/hbzwwofj/default.m3u8',
                image: 'https://img.3speakcontent.online/hbzwwofj/poster.png',
                playbackRateControls: [0.75, 1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, 2],
                autostart: true,
                advertising: {
                    preloadAds: true,
                    skipoffset: 6,
                    skipmessage: 'Skip this ad in XX',
                    tag: 'https://advertise.3speakcontent.online/www/api/v2/vast/?zone=6',
                    "client": "vast",
                },
                abouttext: "Powered by 3Speak",
                aboutlink: "https://3speak.online/?utm_source=player_context",
                cast: {},
                floating: {
                    dismissible: true
                },
                logo: {
                    "file": "https://s3.eu-central-1.wasabisys.com/data.int/logo_player.png",
                    "link": "https://3speak.online/?utm_souce=player_brand",
                    "hide": "true",
                    "position": "top-left"
                },
                sharing: {
                    code: '<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://3speak.online/embed?v=clixmoney/hbzwwofj" frameborder="0"  allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>',
                    sites: ["facebook", "twitter", "reddit", "email"]
                }
            });

Ok, so this simply tells us the source of the videos in a way.

The very first thing we can see is that they use the JWPlayer to show their videos. Which just simply means what is playing the video for you, nothing unusual about that at all.

Then if we look we can see that the player has a setup function and gets various parameters. Such as file: https://v--03-eu-west.3speakcontent.online/hbzwwofj/default.m3u8

We can see here that the URL here starts with what looks like a CDN Url followed by the permlink of the video followed by default.m3u8.

Using a Google Tool that allows DNS lookups through the browser we now know that their CDN (Content Delivery Network) provider is Cloudflare:

As we already know they use wasabi.com for storage. If we now check the given signed_url from the video upload we will find that CDN hostname in that URL: https://s3.eu-central-1.wasabisys.com/v--03-eu-west.3speakcontent.online

That simply means that the videos being viewed on the platform are being delivered from the wasabi cloud storage service.

They are using single, centralized providers.


Which makes them 100% and undeniably centralized.


Why Does Any of This Matter?

First of all the way 3Speak handles videos, video streaming and the SPK token is not bad or wrong. Many platforms are centralized and offer great products, as I said.. sometimes centralization actually is needed for a better user experience.

The Issue Is Misleading Users

3Speak is simply a centralized video platform that just auto posts video links to Steem.

No matter what they have planned for the future, what they have in their roadmap, or what they want it to be.. Right now it is centralized and they are lying to each and every content creator every time they say something else.

The only part of the platform that is actually decentralized is the comment section, as that is stored on chain (but can still be filtered by each front end). The 3speak platform is also one of the many who filter out comments from accounts on the "irredeemables" list.


TDLR

The way 3Speak is currently set up they can:

  • Remove your videos (there is no backup)

  • Remove your comments (filter them from front end)

  • Edit your videos (Title, description, etc)

  • Comment and vote on anything on steem with your account (you give them permission)

  • Ban you from the platform (Simple, as there is only one entity displaying the videos)

  • When blacklisted, you can't even access their creator studio (https://studio.3speak.online/blacklisted?u=steem)


Remember -Their whole platform could be taken down by the providers they use to supply storage. They have TOS polices after all as well, that anyone who uses their service is held accountable to.



I believe they want to create a platform like the one they describe, but it does not exist yet.. and leading people to believe it does is just irresponsible.


What About Dtube?

Dtube is easier to explain actually, as they use a IPFS storage method. Which means they run a server and it stores the videos. Currently Dtube is providing the majority of storage, but creators do have the choice to pay a couple outside services to store them, but most don't. Perhaps they don't know they need to, don't know it's an option or just don't see the point in paying for it.

Also due to the high cost of IPFS storage, Dtube doesn't keep the videos stored longterm, and therefore videos need to be backed up, or you risk losing all your work... just like on YouTube.

If you go back to old posts that included a dtube video, many will not play.. as the video is no longer stored. If the creator did not back that video up or post it elsewhere, it's gone.

BUT Dtube does have the potential to become decentralized

As well as any other project. Anyone can set up an IPFS node (a computer running a specific program) and "pin" or "store" your own videos, or perhaps all that are uploaded to dtube. Then, if one server went down.. the videos would still be online, as there is more than one node contributing to the network.

The more nodes taking part in the network, the more decentralized it becomes.

But this requires massive storage and the cost is quite high, therefore longterm it may not be a viable option for decentralized storage of video content.


Final Thoughts

This post is not intended to bash any project, simply to bring to light exactly how these platforms work, as I feel content creators have a right to know. And quite frankly I find it quite baffling that these projects are being sold as "Decentralized" by those who know, without a doubt, that they are anything of the sort.

Both projects show promise, and I think we are lucky to have them building on Steem, but think they should be honest with their current and future users.

As I would love to be able to say that Steem has a Decentralized alternative to YouTube, but we don't.

I hope one day we will.


Today what we have are some great projects that have expressed they are working towards that, that is a good enough slogan.. no need to throw in completely false claims. They will only backfire.

For content creators I suggest getting a hard drive and backing up your videos to that (any you wish to keep longterm). Then you can post on whatever platforms you want.. but you will not lose the videos in case of an issue with the platform itself. This is the best practice currently in my opinion.

This protects you, your work, and gives you a way to avoid losing your content for one reason or another due to 3rd party sites.

Justine

ALL REWARDS ARE BEING SENT TO @SBDPOTATO THROUGH BENEFICIARIES

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Hmm, feels a bit like nuance trolling to me. Everything you said is technically true, but if you want to dive into the weeds of every little thing you can also point to the fact that images aren't stored on chain, on DSound, those music files aren't stored on chain, basically if it's not text it's not stored on chain. Some people know that, some don't. I honestly don't think most care, especially people coming from Youtube.

They care about being censored and demonetized. That's all, and to that problem Steem DOES have a solution, (although you can be demonetized by other users, more details)

I dunno, I guess this just doesn't feel like constructive criticism. Especially with the whole "gotcha" feeling of posting code like you're outing the big bad liars of 3speak or something.

How can’t they be demonetized and deplatformed if all their content can be wiped as it’s stored on one centralized cloud server?

Not outing anyone, I’m showing how the platform works.. as it seems many are confused.. Including their own FAQ section (which says they store it on the Blockchain). Other platforms you mentioned aren’t doing that.

Not saying don’t use, I’m saying back up your content as it can easily disappear.

That may not matter to many.. but those coming to Steem because all their content was removed on YouTube might need to know that.

Simple - let’s back it up until we have a true solution. We don’t have one yet, but hopefully we will soon.

I meant to put that in my comment, but yes I agree 100% on letting people know(which they should already but wvr) that they should back everything up, because a meteor could hit the servers we use or whatever.

Yes I think this is important best practice that should be taught, and then creators can use what platforms they like.. including 3speak (as I do like it).

I simply included the code to make this as impersonal and not opinion based as possible, which it seems I still failed at.

BUT I have overheard many conversations tonight about possible solutions to storage that would put Steem way ahead of the rest and I hope they continue. As I think having this solution would be totally kickass for Steem. And 3speaks core vision is something I’ve always agreed with.. I just think the misrepresentation of what they actual do was confusing many.

You must be one of the smartest girls in the world, (for sure smartest one on STEEMIT). Including code to prove your points - doesn't get much better than that. You are kinda brutal though but that's good. Wow i'm impressed - upvoted - thanks!

Because Steem does not store videos on the blockchain

Bitcoin SV has gigablocks! LMAO Bitcoin SV is the decentralized video platform of the future! Soon we will all be streaming 4k video off the SV chain! Long live Faketoshi!

It is nuanced trolling. Pointing out things to the steem community that is mostly aware of how everything works and isnt really bothered with it since "decentralize everything" isnt the point..
Then again, Dtube is decentralized. Using IPFS allows for anyone to host their own or others videos.

This whole post is one massive red herring coming from someone that shills bitcoin on twitter which is one of the most lied about cryptos in the history of crypto, one of the most manipulated, one with most corruption tied into. Yet you wont see much criticism on Bitcoin but shell ask you to shut up when someone asks:

"Whats a decentralized alternative to Youtube.".

Shes pointing out something people are aware of and trying to use it to FUD. Yelling "its not decentralized on twitter" while 5 mining pools can hit bitcoin for 51%.

Creating a narrative:

"Youre liars, dont be liars."

...while Steem is the least marketed and least "full of shit" crypto out there. And shes doing that now that Steem has a sliver of a chance to get its name out there.

Virtue signaling with ill intent, nothing more.

Its like if people started talking about Steem and it started getting out in the space and i started posting and tweeting to get attention:

Did ya know about the premine, did ya? did ya know that Steemit can ban you too, they have banned 3 people already. Did ya know? Did ya know?!

It would be with ill intent and a scummy thing to do. Just like it is right now that dtube and threespeak are getting attention.

Nah, if I wanted to shit talk Steem.. I would do it out there 🙂 stop making everything so personal butterfly, again.

I own a decent stake in STEEM and have worked on it for almost 2years. Why would I want it to fail? That’s not very logical.

This is not something “everyone knew” in fact many steemians have been shilling it as so all over twitter due to things they saw the team saying.. and the fact that their faq states they store it on the blockchain, therefore creating a false narrative.

If you knew, awesome.

Others didn’t, and they need to know to back up their stuff.. and not get people here on fake pretenses. False pretenses are a sure way to make Steem look bad.. way more than this post you seem to think is meant to do so.

While you try to twist things here though (I’m sure you’ll get your much needed brownie points for that, don’t worry), we are already working on possible solutions, as this is a problem that needs to be solved.

I know many people like to sugar coat problems and just ignore them, so they get their upvote, others like to solve them.

I would like both groups to get attention right now, even said that above .. great time for steem to be in the spotlight, but let’s not ruin it with false empty shills.. people aren’t dumb, and they will backfire.

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I downvoted this due to the fact that this long ass thread is now attached to the top voted comment. It’s taking away from the actual conversation at hand, including that on the original comment.

This is like some cat fight about mean stuff on twitter.. and not about the post.

I’m not trying to hide it, but it is taking away from the actual conversation. :)

HOW DARE YOU! Do you know what these services are doing for the community? Do you have any idea how much this is needed on steem? Who elected you queen of the blockchain? Did you really think that you could just waltz in here and tell people how to run their business and I wouldn't say anything? This is the most outrageous thing I've seen all week, and I cannot hold my tongue. Get off your high horse, @justineh, and come back down to reality where people are actually building things while you try to tear them down.

I'm just kidding if you didn't get the hyperbole.

Funny, people won’t get the joke. 🙂 Including @3speak, who upvoted it. The irony is too much. Many are discussing how to improve the situation, the 3speak team is silent.. but upvoting comments they don’t even understand..

LOL

Way to show me boys 😉 open conversation is cool too.

I didn't realise they said they stored the content on the Blockchain. I did'nt even think that would even be possible with the current technology.
Video files are big and Youtube has always run at a loss due to the server costs. Goggle is happy with getting all this data for free hoping that one day they can turn a profit on it but I think that day is far away.
I system like Napster or torrents with a desentralised front end with creators and fans storing the files could be the only alternative to Youtube . Thanks for restarting this very important conversation.

Seniors won't that's like... tiny!

We are chatting about solutions in PAL discord if you are around @techcoderx

You are too emotional, Bro. It is called constructive criticism, and it might help
Steem and everything around it more, than exaggerated loyalty.
Didn't we learn to question everything ;)

He’s just kidding. We were on a chat discussing possible longterm solutions and they were roasting me for some of the shit I’ll get. All in good fun.

(Check the fine print there 😉)

Nowadays it's hard to tell if it's still humor.... ;)
Good to know, that i missed the fine print ;)
But like i said in my other comment, you made some good
constructive criticism...
Not to mention the view counts on 3speak, is that thing working
or are they/the traffic really that low..?

Yes to be perfectly honest, I’m pretty sure his trolling was too good.. as even 3speak themselves seemed to want to agree with him 🤪 But hey, that’s to be expected.

I did ask about their view counts recently and they were pretty confident that they were accurate, yes.

And thank you for your kind words btw, appreciate you seeing the meaning of the post and all 🙏

Ultimately it's all about users and usage. No matter how decentralized your solution is but the performance is poor like in dtube, no one is going to use it. There's no point to even make this startup. To overcriticized a new startup until you yourself try to startup one. You'll realise how hard it is to get decentralized solution on everything. Something simply doesn't work

Yep and not everything needs to be decentralized.. just back up storage so everyone doesn’t lose their content would be good imo.

Especially if the push is to onboard all the YouTubers who lost their content and are looking for an alternative. Sort of defeats the purpose.. no?

Well you got a point. But if they have a roadmap to later show that they will use a tested better decentralized solution on storage then it will be better i guess. It really depends on the commitment of the developer. But for a startup you really have to give them chance to grow first, hopefully when it matures it will switch to a more decentralized solution. But right now people are leaving due to user experience. Blockchain is not mature enough yet.

I gave a small downvote here, only because I don’t really like someone else coming in (the owner of 3speak) to upvote comments at 100% that essentially change the narrative of the comments section here.

Just wanted to explain, as it’s not personal.. just feels a bit over rewarded imo.

Well you have your own point of view and i have my own. It's decentralized after all no one should be silenced. no harsh feelings here.

Excellent analysis on 3Speak and its centralization, this is why I have been a critic regarding the platform.

As a DTube chain block producer and co-founder of OneLoveIPFS hosting service, I have to agree on what you said, some creators don't care about decentralization as they just post their videos as a YouTube link, which can be taken down anytime. From my queries, 58.27% of the videos since 0.9 update are not IPFS uploads, which means 3rd party providers can render majority of the videos unplayable if they want to.

And yes, it does have the potential to actually be decentralized and have no single point of failure as anyone can clone the infrastructure due to its fully open source nature. For example, anyone can build (or simple make a clone) an alternative frontend that uses alternative APIs and gateways not controlled by the DTube team.

A Steem proposal to make OneLoveIPFS service free to use might be an idea to explore, but sustainability is still questionable 🤔

Perhaps if IPFS is a solution for this then some of the delegation that both platforms have could be used to incentivize hosting nodes or perhaps discuss how torrents could be implemented and incentive for seeding/downloading could be used to grow the network.

I think this is a great thing if we could solve it, and we already have great teams working towards it. Maybe some collaboration is in order.

Rondom, Aggroed and a few of us were talking about possible solutions. Told him to reach out to you 🙂

I remembered at one point @vaultec ran a contest on IPFS node hosting, but there is no follow up on it...

Incentivizing people to run nodes and have a public way to monitor them (like we can currently with witness or full nodes) would be a great way to solve the problem imo.

I don’t know much about the tech, but if the infrastructure is already here, we just need more nodes ran to make it decentralized and therefore more secure.. I think the projects delegation could be a possible way to do so.

Maybe some other will weigh in.

Yup running an onelovedtube node has been a great way to decentralize my content a little more. Thanks alot @techcoderx for all of your work and help.

IPFS is the best we have. BitChute uses WebTorrent. Seems worth a look. Steem integration of that might work well.

Posted using Partiko iOS

Torrent to me would be the ultimate, with perhaps a reward incentive to seed etc, but I’m not sure how that would be integrating into the current tech. I just don’t know much about it.

IPFS is currently here and used, so maybe that’s a first step? Not sure.. but I think both projects are very close, they just need some help.

Its all come down to cost, its just too much for them to do it right.

I think making it torrent based should not be difficult at all.
I would definitely connect it with an additional reward system to hold a shard.

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I guess dtube/3speak should press the point that videos are less likely to be removed unless TOS is breached. It's just not quite as catchy in a Tweet as 'decentralized'.

I don't think the average content creator knows or cares about "Decentralized" in that sense. I think what they care about is not controlled by a huge corporation trying to determine which content can be viewed.

I could even take it one step further and say, they just don't want to be demonetized. While that can happen here as well... it would be for different reasons.

Yep I agree. I'd say there is less chance of being demonetized or having your content removed on dtube/3speak, just need something catchy in the advert :)

The funny thing is that while DTube or 3Speak can censor you they can’t demonetize you. Only the community can.

Posted using Partiko iOS

Other front-ends would still display the post but I assume the above could break the link to the video leaving the content absent with less chance to pick up rewards?

Possibly unless the censored author raises a stink about being censored and Steemians decide to support the placeholder post out a desire to support the author.

Actually, if they are the only way to post their videos, they can demonetize you. No one sees the videos, therefore no one can vote them.

That’s the great thing about steem though, access from other front ends.. it’s just I see video differently I guess.

Just the claim that they can’t demonetize or censor you is false.. but maybe I guess they have a TOS that says they won’t.. and that’s good enough for most.

I was talking about a situation where you post a video and the video gets taken down after that. The monetization can still continue despite the video being taken down. That's because all videos on 3Speak are embedded in Steem posts that no one, not even the author can delete. That post can be viewed using any Steem front end even if the video couldn't. It is the post that gets monetized, not the video itself.

Yes that makes sense, even if the video doesn’t work there would be a post (with the broken link) still there that people could support. Good point.

There servers are owned by amazon, pretty sure there is a decent chance considering.

They can show they are an alternative and their TOS would reflect what content will be removed for.. and they could perhaps educate individuals to back up their content or provide back up storage as well.

Depending on one storage company means they don’t even control what happens with the content in the future. They just need to be clear with their users on this.

Many don’t care about decentralization, and that’s total fine.. but I’m not sure how answering the question of “what is a decentralized alternative to YouTube?” With “3speak” is extremely misleading and can hurt content creators long term.

Well, 3speak isn't decentralised but is built on a decentralised blockchain, so that still works out fine in the long run and won't be counted as a "lie" per se.

How? How does it work out? And how is built on a decentralized platform the answer, as the content they are advertising has nothing to do with the blockchain, as it does not store it.

It only is using the chain to post the link, utilize the comment section, and use the rewards. The video content, which is what people are coming for, is stored off chain in the cloud.

The is a discussion about possible IPFS or torrent storage, but tbh I don’t think anyone has solved it yet. I hope 3speak finds a way to improve it, but currently I think creators need to be backing up their content they want saved.

Steem + Bitchute = ?

Not sure.. many have mentioned a torrent based tech. I guess this is how LBRY does it, but I don’t know the specifics of how this would work.

DTube used to have WebTorrent support but for some reason the team disabled it in 0.6. Could suggest to the team to enable it back since they allow link shares now

isn't dtube already pretty similar to Bitchute or was assuming they both used either IPFS or things similar to that?

I thought 3Speak was using or was planning to use the SIA network for storing the content. Maybe they are using both blockchain and centralized storage services to deliver a better user experience?

Wouldn't the use of the SIA network for storing content qualify as a decentralized alternative?

They are not currently using SIA and have not for quite awhile. The only current storage they are using for videos is the wasabi cloud service mentioned above, and there is no backup.

I know they said they are working on decentralized ways in the future, a challenge we all should be wanting solved.. as it would be amazing for Steem. I hope it comes to be.

I did not know that. Thanks for the information and detailed explanation in the post. 3SPeak FAQ section still says this though:

Our system uses blockchain to store the content, meaning it cannot be arbitrarily removed.

Using the same logic, we probably can't say Steem is decentralized either since images are also not stored in the blockchain. Hypothetically speaking, if the storage providers or Steemit Inc delete all the Steem images that would break most of the Steem blog content.

We could have images stored on IPFS, and have only its hash referenced on post article body (no URLs), then interfaces can interpret it as an image and use the hash to load the file from an IPFS gateway (can be selected by the end user).

In theory, you probably could encrypt the files cut them to smaller pieces and store on Steem in custom_json. Then UIs could put the pieces back together as a file, decrypt, and serve to their sites.

Alternatively, someone could build this software and UIs could use the services. Probably will require a lot of RC and may have performance/speed issues.

Cutting up images or videos and storing them on the Steem blockchain would work in theory, but not in practice. The capacity of the blockchain to store data is very limited. If someone tried to do this they would find that the cost of RCs would go up and it would become cost prohibitive, if it weren't already from the start (and I believe the latter would be the case for any real app trying to do it with, say, videos).

that is too bad that it can be so tough from a practical standpoint

That is too bad that
It can be so tough from a
Practical standpoint

                 - joeyarnoldvn


I'm a bot. I detect haiku.

That would be blockchain spam as storing the actual file on the blockchain is unnecessary. Storing the IPFS hash is more space efficient (more than the entire image URL) as the https://domain part is omitted.

For example:

![](QmNoa96v5gCfnzsdEbzZtrJvuXH14hS8k8DPPUQbdJMydd)

can be detected as an image stored on IPFS, and it can be used to load the image from any gateway (at user's choice).

We could say that pictures are not stored decentralized on the chain for sure.. as they aren’t stored at all. There is someone who stores the code and then has a program that displays the image.. but that’s above my head.

But yes, I don’t think we should go to individuals whose photos are being censored and say “come to Steem because your photos will never be able to be removed” this would be absolutely false of course.

Thank you for this. I am one of those who misunderstood and may have claimed 3speak was decentralized when suggesting it to disgruntled big platform users.
I do still think these two are the best alternatives out there, and I believe they will develop into the vision of web 3.0 that we all deserve.

I totally agree, I just think from a PR stand they could both be promoted for what they are.. without misleading users.

Hell we are so damn close to an actual solution.. heck maybe this will even push it, as I think Steem is the foundation of Web 3.0 and both projects are an important part of that.

But there was some confusion, and I felt that needed to be cleared up.

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