DLive is migrating off the Steem blockchain. The reasons why should concern us all.

in steem •  7 months ago

I just read a post by @wa7 announcing that DLive is migrating from the Steem blockchain to the Lino blockchain.

Here's the section of the post that explains why they are migrating which I think should concern us.


I admit that I am not an expert on how the rewards system works or how the different types of reward curve affect the platform but I do know that I've read numerous posts on the subject that all seem to be saying a similar thing. One post that comes to mind that I have quoted before was by @freebornangel. Here's a quote from the post setting out their point.

Too bad the class war continues.
After the fork, redfish votes will not round down automatically, but they will still not count unless they total .02stu.

That is a real bummer for the little guys.
Many of whom pick up the pennies in the streets.
Just one more slap in the face from our class enemies that control the code.
They can say anything they want, but you can know the truth by their actions.

Why don't they fix that?
Ask them.

They know that linear rewards makes steem a pay for play proposition.
They knew it because @dan told them, and avoided it with the original design.

When he was here, you could get downvoted for selling your vote.
It breaks proof of brain.

The problem with superlinear rewards is that it exponentially favors the haves.
They get exponentially more from their vote than you do, dear reader, with your's.

@smooth and @abit had that solved.
The community rose up and those with the ability put the kibosh on the greedy whale's greed.
Our vote values grew, exponentially.

Rather than let that play out,...
All hail, stinc!
They hurried up and hardforked the code to give us the very things that Dan intentionally excluded.

With a superlinear voting curve the largest accounts have to abstain from voting.
Stinc knew that.

It's still a curve now, when a whale votes we all lose vote value because it goes to pay the whale, that hasn't changed.
With superlinear rewards, and responsible whales, we could have grown a middle class by now.

Instead, we have what we have, we take pennies from the poor.
We force the newbs to buy rewards.
All hail, stinc!, and the other devs.

As I said before, I don't know enough about the topic to weigh in with anything particularly useful (I will do some research) but I wanted to post this to see if I could get some comments from people who do know something.

There are whales/witnesses who have been pointing out problems with the system for a while now, @berniesanders being probably the best known/infamous ;-) and I read a post by @ura-soul recently that talked about bidbots. Both ura and bernie are witnesses so there are people heavily invested in Steem in both terms of time and money that want to see the platform thrive with promising new witnesses like @helpie coming on board too.

I'm interested in what people think on this topic and also people's views on Stinc and whether they are doing the best for the platform so please add a comment and start/continue the discussion and if you think the post is worthy, resteem it to get more eyes on the topic and hopefully more discussion.

Thanks for reading.


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The reason for dLive leaving is a bunch of BS. The real reasons are explored in taskmaster4450's recent post at:


Considering you can now live stream on dTube they had become redundant on steem. Good riddance to them.


Thanks for the link. Interesting reading. I didn't know a lot of that stuff and I've read more about DLive since too. I still think they made some valid points although it does appear that they might have used them to cover other reasons. Thanks again.


Thanks for the link.

My pleasure.

With some of the lead dlive devs' affiliation with their new blockchain it is appearing they have taken our community for a ride to help finance development.

I still think they made some valid points...

The whale dilemma is not unique to our blockchain. Even EOS (which made a conscious effort to counter it) is said to share the same problem. That is not to mean that it does not need addressing though.

I'm not a math guy, and further, don't really see the point in putting that much effort into the algos because I see the problem is actually not how rewards are calculated, or why they are originated, but that they are stake-weighted.

You may recall that I have long maintained that stake-weighting is the ultimate culprit in dehumanization irl, and not only on Steemit. I reckon SOC (SMTs, Oracles, and Communities) will resolve this issue by making possible communities that potentiate 1a1v and exclude non-humans from voting that will best meet societal needs and outcompete communities that continue stake-weighting.

Most folks are intensely interested in their financial wherewithal, and I deeply understand this, if I do not exhibit it myself. I have been there, and sold my t-shirt collection. I have found that society is vastly more important and valuable than it's economic aspects, and anticipate that becoming more apparent as better technology enables folks to effect the society they prefer.

Presently we are largely dependent on 20th century implementations of industry. Steemit is transformative, as are many nascent technologies today, making the old ways of doing things obsolete. This includes gaining lots of money in order to be able to have the goods and services you want, and 3D printing, cryptocurrency, mesh networks, independent media, aquaponics, and on and on, all prove this.

I don't need to have a job to make money to buy a car I can print in my garage - in a garage I can print myself. I don't need to buy a TV to watch CNN that I pay a subscription for, when I can print a phone at home and get actual true news and information from folks like you instead of CNN.

These changes are coming, and stake-weighting is a vestige of factories being necessary for industrial production of goods, and imperial government to impose social order. We are going to be able to do all that stuff ourselves, and be far more free and happy as a result.

SOC is what is necessary to transform Steemit (and other UIs) into an accurate means of valuing content, rather than an ROI contest.



Thanks for the great reply.

I can't really add anything of value to your excellent reply so I won't. I'll vote it to the top instead.

Thanks again

Thanks for the shout out!

No war but the class war!


Right on brother !!!

The problem is not the reward-curve but the lack of any feedback mechanisms in the code so that the ecosystem equilibrium is commensurate with the stated aims.

The Vitalik quote is correct - it's all game theory. Having said that, I don't yet see a blockchain ecosystem that has got their algorithms right yet; ETH's gas fees are prohibitively high for small "social" transactions.

I am looking to see how flexible SMTs can truly be so that experiments can be conducted on different algorithms. We shall see...


It will be interesting to see what happens after HF20 and SMTs. I hope all the promises and hopes come to fruition for the sake of the 1090SP I have staked !!

Steemit should remove self upvotes but also increase curation payouts so the big steem whales are incentivised to upvote quality content from other users while still getting value on the holdings/investment.


Thanks for taking the time to read/comment. Hopefully more people reply with ideas and views like yourself so we can get a decent conversation going.
Self upvoting is an interesting one. I upvote all of my posts but don't think I've ever posted more than once a day and I upvote other peoples stuff far more than I upvote mine but I do see the problem where people with large SP holdings put out 10 posts a day of shit and upvote themselves. It's hard to see a solution to it because a big part of Steemit is that there are no rules and you can do with your stake what you please and this is often used as a justification for anything and everything.

if you think the post is worthy, resteem it to get more eyes on the topic and hopefully more discussion.

"if" ?

Resteemed with pleasure.


Thanks man. Much appreciated. Hope all is well.


All good here bro, sunny and 28c. (for now)

The rewards under this post kinda says it all. And you've been here for a while and worked hard. Good content doesn' t do anything unless a friendly whale drops by. Some of us understand that even $0.30 counts and adds up to a couple $ a week, but most get frustrated and give up. That's why we have so many dead accounts. I don't know if the chain dLive is migrating will change that, but people at Steemit should consider that as users will follow the money.


Thanks for taking the time to read/comment. The quality and quantity of my posts are nowhere near that of many users so I'm not complaining but as you said, I have been here a while and if I didn't delegate 250SP to a community account that gives me 1x $0.50 upvote per day, pretty much all of my posts would earn less than a dollar (and probably less than $0.50) unless one particular lovely whale that follows me notices my post and upvotes it. When that happens my post rewards go from less than $1 to $8-10 and more when the Steem price goes up, but since most posts are only visible for a very short time unless I pay for upvotes (which I stopped doing quite a few months ago), this doesn't happen as often as I would like.
The upcoming hardfork doesn't appear to do anything to address the problems highlighted by the people who run DLive and others which bothers me but perhaps it is because I don't understand it all well enough or am simply thinking too short term. Hopefully I'll get some comments that will help me understand and perhaps change my view.

I am not convinced by Dlive when I read things like this. What is it that so called "good content" creators(define?) really want? Is it 10 cents or 3 dollars per article. I know talented artists that spend a year on a project (design/painting/sculpture) and are paid zero as no one is interested. It is too easy to blame steem in my opinion.


I see your point and after publishing the article and reading some more about the DLive decision I think in this case you could be right but I also think that some of the points they made were valid although perhaps they were using them to cover up some of the other reasons they chose to leave. Thanks for taking the time to read/comment

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