CATALONIA IS SPAIN: some politicians want an illegal secession from Spain, ILLEGAL FAKE VOTING!
Imagine that Babaria in Germany wants to separate from Germany, or that Provence wants to separate from France, or California wants to separate from the USA.
Do you think that Germany, France or the USA would allow such secession to happen?
Obviously not, because they are integral parts of their countries, the same than Catalonia is an integral part of Spain since the times before the Roman Invasion of the Iberian Peninsula.
If such an attempt of secession would happen on those countries, they will apply the law to stop it and the police and even the army to enforce the law because that is the reason of being of the police and the army.
That's exactly what is happening in Spain, the law, the Spanish Constitution and the orders from the Judges are being applied to stop an illegal voting instigated by the insurgent regional government in Catalonia.
The police is closing the places where the illegal voting is attempted and seizing all the illegal material, but the police are finding resistance and violence from some people with wounded people and police as result. The police need to use the proportional force when required to complete the work that the judges have ordered them with to enforce the law.
Catalonia is an integral part of Spain and it will always continue to be, that is not negotiable.
In the S.XX the secessionist took us to a Civil War, we are now heading to a similar situation so a future second Civil War in Spain is unfortunately now possible. We hope that this time the international community, Europe, and the UN supports the democratic government of Spain to reject the insurgent secessionists and avoid war.
Catalonia already had an autonomous government with more powers that the government of Scotland have
But what the politicians from the Catalonia region want is not self-governing, that they already have, but complete secession from Spain and that is utterly impossible.
Spaniards are very friendly and peacefull people but we cannot allow some local politicians to execute a secession are steal part of Spain from all the Spanish people.
CATALONIA IS SPAIN
Here is what it's like to be part of Spain:
https://twitter.com/ThomasVLinge/status/914464713542635520
https://steemit.com/news/@yogi/helpcatalonia-this-is-how-catalan-citizens-are-treated-by-the-spanish-government-for-the-simple-fact-of-wanting-to-decide-and#comments
What do you expect when you do an illegal act. The police have to enforce law with proportional force and that is what the Spanish police has done like it is done in any democratic and law abiding country.
Don't cry you get what you asked for...
Oh please...
It is not illegal in any democratic country for the police to take proportional force to enforce judicial orders. Please learn a bit more before answering
If you think this is anything other than police brutality you have lost grips with reality... https://twitter.com/hashtag/CatalanReferendum
On the contrary, it is you and the regional goverment of Catalonia the ones that have completely lost grips with reality. People try to block the police for performing the task ordered by the judges and so the police have to take proportional force to do the task that they are legally binded to do.
In any democratic country it will happen exactly the same if people try to avoid the police making their job.
Stop being childist and grow up!
If advocating freedom is childish in your opinion, so be it.. https://twitter.com/imMAK02/status/914470584498757632
You are not advocating for freedom but for an illegal secession from Spain. Democracy would be that all Spaniards vote if all of them decide to break apart Spain. What you are proposing has been the source of many wars in history and you are irresponsibly taking all of you into the path of war where all Spaniards will lose being the region of Catalonia the one that most have to lose.
If law is based on the will of the people, how possibly could voting be illegal?
Check your facts, troll. And stop spamming my posts.
Because the law is the will of all spaniards and not only a small amount of them.
Democracy is that all Spaniards decide whether they want a region of Spain to secede or not, anything else is not democracy but an illegal secession of a country against international law, the European Union Constitution and the Spanish Constitution. The world understands this and that is why all major countries have expressed the support to the Spanish government, from Merkel to Trump.
It is not about the right of people to disassociate but about preventing a small group of people stealing a part of the country from Spaniards. The region of Catalonia has always been part of Spain and they cannot unilaterally decide to steal part of the land of Spain. And with the Spanish Constitution and the law in had, the Spanish Army is ready to prevent such a secession if the regional government of Catalonia attempts to do it.
The United States had already a secession war, Spain also, let's hope that these irresponsible and totalitarian regional politicians don't make us go to the second one.
You are trying to foist your control upon me.
Collectivism necessarily involves extortion, unless its voluntary.
If its voluntary, then I opt out.
If its not voluntary, then you are part of the problem.
You are trying to steal the land of Spain from the rest of Spaniards so it is you, a minority of Spaniards, that are trying to foist your control over the majority of Spaniards.
We agree that if voluntary ALL Spaniards decide that the region of Catalonia is no longer part of Spain (even though it has been for thousands of years) then fine. That would be real democracy and freedom and I respect that, but not the fake democracy that you pretend to show to the world. Fortunately intelligent people will detect that you are rally fascist and not democrats.
What you are proposing is not voluntarism, it is extortion of the minority over the majority to steal its land.
You seem inteligent although indoctrinated by decades of lies from the secessionist politicians, I hope that you open your mind and understand it.
Would the EU need to "allow" Spain to leave?
If you want to be part of the union, go ahead. Don't force control over me because of "muh rules from before."
Instead tell me how Franco was a man of the people.
It is you, a small portion of the Spaniards living in Catalonia, that want to control the rest of Spaniards in a totally fascist way trying to steal part of their land, because the region of Catalonia is not only yours, it is yours and it is also of the rest of Spaniards.
Franco?! really!? hahaha
That is part of the indoctrination you have had by your fascist secessionist politicians during 30 years... Franco! hahaha
I wasn't even born when Franco died, come one, get real, move on of those indoctrinating lies... don't you see how blind you are?
This is what Spanish democracy looks like!
That is how it looks policemen taking proportional force to carry out their work as ordered by the judges. If peple try to prevent the police compliying their orders they have to take proportional force so they can comply with. That is what happens in any democratic country from Germany, to the UK, France or the US.
If there are people who voluntarily try to prevent the police to apply law, they have to face the consequences.
Look again
FYI: democracy is not the same as freedom. Why is your name Freedom Vigilante if you're advocating for violent control of the state?
I'm for personal liberty and small government. A small government whose only function should be to defend freedom by making sure that the country is safe from threats from outside and from within.
So freedom is the government making sure that a few fascist secessionist Spaniards don't steal the Spanish land from the Spaniards
Thanks for the mention @freedomvigilante. Let me clarify my position on these types of secessions. The California example I mention here is not to say that I wouldn't at the end of the day respect the wishes of California to take a vote and attempt secession. If that's how I came off, I apologize. My primary reason for wanting to leave if they secede is because I disagree with the direction the politicians here are taking California. They want to institute a mainly socialist totalitarian state and I don't want me or my family to starve to death like is happening in Venezuela right now, along with countless other socialist experiments gone horribly wrong.
I however don't condone what the U.S. government would do in retaliation, but it would happen nonetheless, and I wouldn't want to be stuck in the middle of that mess either. Whether it be peaceful or violent, I'm out.
What Spain is doing to the Catalans is an atrocity and I denounce it with every fiber of my being. I am a peaceful person and I see no justice in jackbooted thugs attacking people for simply expressing their opinion about how their community should be governed. If I lived in Catalonia, I would have recommended against secession for similar reasons to California, but I in no way condone the violent suppression of their movement.
You got it wrong when you talk about the "atrocities" there have been no atrocities. The police had the judicial mandate to seize all materials related to the illegal poll so they went to comply with its orders. What they found then was people trying to prevent the police to do the work that the judges had told them to do.
They used the elderly and the children as human shields, the same tactic that ISIS uses.
The police had no chance but to start removing the people that were preventing the law being applied with proportional force. The multitude tried to attack the police because police was trying to use minimal force so the multitude felt empowered. But when that happened the police didn't have another chance than to step up and use proportional force against the multitude. The same that happens in the USA when the police find a multitude attacking them.
I'm interested to know what media outlets do you watch that have made you get that wrong interpretation of the facts.
I didn't say "police," I said "Spain," which means I think that Spanish authorities are in the wrong here. The police are just following orders. It may be "illegal" to do what the Catalan pollsters are doing, but they aren't harming anyone and they certainly didn't initiate these interactions with the police. Unjust laws are written all the time.
Voting illegally if there is a secession in Spain is doing a great harm to democracy, to all the spanish people including themselves.
Police took proportional force to comply with the orders the received from the judges (not from politicians) to make law prevail.
The Spanish authorities are certainly in the wrong here.
But the police still could chose to follow commands or not.
This is why I don't respect the blind following of orders. It so obviously leads to bad things.
!originalcontent
Look what this US Citizen thinks of a secession of California... Civil War...
So extrapolate to Spain... it is the same...
https://steemit.com/calexit/@randr10/a-message-to-my-fellow-californians-and-calexit-why-i-would-leave-if-california-secedes
"If they try to go through with #CalExit, it will certainly mean civil war, and the losers would almost certainly be the secessionists. It’s reason enough that they will be on the wrong side of history to not support their cause"
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