We Americans are so blessed to be able to vote and so many of us never do. People from so many countries (South American, African, Far Eastern, and even Europe, it seems.) have nothing like we do. They have no say about their country, what their rites are, no justice, poor and starving, while the higher echelons are living "high on the hog" as they say. Please vote whenever we have an election.
As a European I'm extremely shocked to see this happening. I used to think we were somewhat civilised and pro-democracy. The Spanish government has just proven this is no longer true...
CATALONIA IS SPAIN: some politicians want an illegal secession from Spain, ILLEGAL FAKE VOTING!
Imagine that Babaria in Germany wants to separate from Germany, or that Provence wants to separate from France, or California wants to separate from the USA.
Do you think that Germany, France or the USA would allow such secession to happen?
Obviously not, because they are integral parts of their countries, the same than Catalonia is an integral part of Spain since the times before the Roman Invasion of the Iberian Peninsula.
If such an attempt of secession would happen on those countries, they will apply the law to stop it and the police and even the army to enforce the law because that is the reason of being of the police and the army.
That's exactly what is happening in Spain, the law, the Spanish Constitution and the orders from the Judges are being applied to stop an illegal voting instigated by the insurgent regional government in Catalonia.
The police is closing the places where the illegal voting is attempted and seizing all the illegal material, but the police are finding resistance and violence from some people with wounded people and police as result. The police need to use the proportional force when required to complete the work that the judges have ordered them with to enforce the law.
Catalonia is an integral part of Spain and it will always continue to be, that is not negotiable.
In the S.XX the secessionist took us to a Civil War, we are now heading to a similar situation so a future second Civil War in Spain is unfortunately now possible. We hope that this time the international community, Europe, and the UN supports the democratic government of Spain to reject the insurgent secessionists and avoid war.
Catalonia already had an autonomous government with more powers that the government of Scotland have
But what the politicians from the Catalonia region want is not self-governing, that they already have, but complete secession from Spain and that is utterly impossible.
Spaniards are very friendly and peacefull people but we cannot allow some local politicians to execute a secession are steal part of Spain from all the Spanish people.
Spaniards are very friendly and peaceful people...
I don't think that the biggest animal abusers can be friendly or peaceful. And nothing can justify beating old lady, it is possible to prevent her to do anything without harming her
The biggest animal abusers are the people that want to steal part of the land of Spain from the rest of Spaniards.
Anyone that tries to prevent the police applying law have it coming to them because law has to be abided.
Blocking the police with the elderly and children are making them human shields and a very law tactic that reminds me of another kind of people using the same tactic...
I have read that the supreme court of spain used urgent laws to prevent the referendum from happening. Apprently the catalans tried already 24 times to have a vote to determine if they prefer to stick to spain or go their own way.
It's quite tragic to see those pictures, and to read you, certainly a paid propagandist by the central occupational government of spain.
please you know full well what is going on. it's spain corrupt politicians are sucking the Catalan tits dry and as such would be afraid to see their cash cow freed.
I wish that I was paid for these posts.... well, actually I am but thanks to Daniel Larimer and SteemIt ;)
If you check my history you will see that I have other posts that are not related to the secession of Catalonia but about cryptocurrencies and personal freedom.
And secession is not freedom, it is fascism trying to impose the will of a few Spaniards from Catalonia to the rest of Spaniards so they steal part of the land of all Spaniards.
You have been very well indoctrinated, the most corrupt politicians in Spain are the ones from Catalonia and Andalucia. Just look at the longtime regional president of Catalonia, Pujol, and his family being tried in court for corruption.
About "sucking the tits" hahaha
Economically Catalonia is far from what it once was, their downfall came when the secessionist and corrupt politicians arrived to the regional government, starting with Pujol and his family tried for corruption and stealing money from all Spaniards.
Catalonia is currently broke, the Spanish government has had to give even more money from the taxes of all Spaniards to Catalonia, taking it away from other regions, so the public services and salaries in the region of Catalonia could be paid for. The government has given this additional money to Catalonia to see if they stop crying (qui no plora no mama) but it is impossible with the secessionist regional politicians.
Furthermore, without Spain Catalonia would be completely broke, without the support from the tax money from the rest of Spaniards, without the Spanish market, outside of the EU (because to enter you need the Spanish vote and you will never ever get it), ostracised internationally...
The "Espanya ens roba" (Spain steals from us) is false, it is exactly the opposite, the ones stealing from the Catalonians and the rest of Spaniards are the regional secessionist politicians from Catalonia.
Hi, thanks for your reply. It's sad, you should offer your services, I am sure they would be interested.
And secession is not freedom, it is fascism trying to impose the will of a few Spaniards from Catalonia to the rest of Spaniards so they steal part of the land of all Spaniards.
Can you agree that for the secession to be peaceful it's necessary that the catalans and the spanish people both vote. The Catalans first because they are fed up, or at least a part want something new. And then if the vote is successful, who knows if it isn't allowed to happen, the rest of spain can vote too on the subject. Or the reverse. what ever it's true that it should be both side.
No the downfall of catalonia happened when the catalans bosses found that it was easier to hire cheap foreigners ready to work for almost free in barcelona and let the native catalans mostly in the dust due to more qualifications, lower pay and higher knowledge of foreign languages. Then with mass immigrations most low qualifications job pay very little in catalonia as the supply of labor is limitless.
Then on your remark about the spanish behavior if catalonia was to seceded shows that it's not the path toward peace. Why would spain block catalonia entry in the eu? Rather than focus on being a nice neighboor, improving itself to the point were catalans begs to reenter spain.
I know that would ask real work, and it's way simpler to justify smashing with state force people who once were spanish. I am not sure they think of themselves now...
peace is way harder than violence, the dividends infinitely higher, but there need to be honest, factual dialogues. Otherwise force is faster, but does it achieve any dividend at all even when wrapped in a nice narrative packaging?
A secessionist vote is not allowed by Spanish constitution and that is why it was declared illegal.
If you want to vote then first try to change the Spanish Constitution to allow a secessionist poll. If you manage it then try to change the European Constitution that also prevents secessions within member states (1).
Regarding allowing Catalonia in the EU, how can you dream that in a hypothetical secession (that will never happen), after stealing part of the Spanish country, that country is going to have any good relations with you?
If a burglar comes to your home and steals your property, are you going to be friends with him??? Come on, get real! You will want him to be behind bars and to get back your property.
So if secession is currently illegal under Spanish Constitution and European Constitution was is the point of making an illegal, irrelevant and useless vote? Obviously none.
As I said, change both those constitutions first and then we can start talking about all Spaniards deciding if they break Spain apart.
From your comments I also see that you are a xenophobe, of course... what I'm thinking off... secessionism is xenophobism and fascism... hahaha
Would you let them be if they said they didn't want your land either? Would you let them keep their houses where they are, not pay any taxes or abide by your rules? (And if this was ever an option, how would they know the next generation would keep your word?)
Probably not. Why would you? That's why the only practical way out, as it seems right now, is physical isolation and the establishment of another country.
It may cost you to let current taxpayers and a few children born into a slavery (that you blame on the decissions of their parrents or earlier ancestors) go, but it will be a whole lot more effecient for you all if in the long run if you stop forcing integration.
What do you expect when you do an illegal act. The police have to enforce law with proportional force and that is what the Spanish police has done like it is done in any democratic and law abiding country.
the referendum has been declared illegal, by an urgent law through the parliament to stop it. I mean, rule of law? lol.
Concerning Rajoy, I know ! It's even frightening and very sad. When you think that all of this and what will come, could have been solved by a vote. Why didn't the central occupational governement of spain plan it? why don't they want democracy?
How will the catalans and spanish feel on monday? Wouldn't a vote be simpler and leave less biterness or even anger and hate? So much pain for so little gain for spain.
They want to leave because they have been indoctrinated with lies for more than 30 years. I've seen it myself with my own eyes.
Why have the secessionist politicians done this? For the oldest reason in the world, power, and money. They want to be the kings of their own little country by stealing the land of Spain, but they will never ever manage to do it because Spain has the law and the reason on its side.
Spain is a democracy and Democracy is that all Spaniards decide whether they want a region of Spain to secede or not, anything else is not democracy but an illegal secession of a country against international law, the European Union Constitution and the Spanish Constitution.
The world understands this and that is why all major countries have expressed the support to the Spanish government, from Merkel to Trump.
On Monday the secessionist will be sad, very sad, and if they dare to unilaterally declare secession they will end up with their bones in jail like it happened to Companys the previous time that this happened.
the secessionists don't threaten of violence, they want peaceful independence... easy to see who is the oppressors. what does jfk said about peaceful revolution? Catalan isn't a language? Don't they have an identity, can't they have the right to self rule? How did all the formers colonies of spain secede? btw there is no European Union Constitution. it's just an authoritarian super state with no constitution, using of ruse and deceit to gain more control and income from the area it dominates.
Again, the police have to take proportional force to comply with judicial orders. If old ladies try to stop the police complying with their work they will need to remove them with proportional force and that is exactly what they are doing. There are policemen injured also.
It reminds me of some other type of people using their elderly and children as human shields, a very nasty, dishonest and low tactic
The problem is about the legality of the orders given to the police. actually having order isn't a really good defense line because the real question is the legitimacy of such orders.
Why stop a vote? Isn't spain a democracy? why hasn't the cenntral occupational spanish government isn't issue another date for such a vote? Why aren't the basic tenets of democracy followed?
Then you attempt at deligitimizing the peacefull praticionners of democracy is not going to work. Here sadly for you and contrary to the msm we have "unallowed pictures" of old and young people being beaten by the state occupational forces.
and you know it.
Isn't part of self determination a great value to pursue? Furthermore a world where people can peacefully settle those issues through honest and impartial votes isn't safer for all?
Tomorrow you will get your check for your efforts, in a broken spain? Look at the english who btw belongs Gibraltar, they made a vote, I mean many votes. Results scotland stays in the UK, Brexit on. Violence? Distrusts with the cops? Problems for generations to come? None.
Democracy is that all Spaniards decide whether they want a region of Spain to secede or not, anything else is not democracy but an illegal secession of a country against international law, the European Union Constitution and the Spanish Constitution. The world understands this and that is why all major countries have expressed the support to the Spanish government, from Merkel to Trump.
So Spain is democratic and the secessionist regional politicians are fascist that want to impose their will on the rest of Spaniards by stealing part of the land of Spain from them.
Scotland has less self-governance than what any Spanish autonomous region has. And believe me that the UK has been very lucky (and smart) because the EU doesn't have an army yet. If they had waited for the EU to have its own army Brexit will not have been possible as it stands today.
Many lives were lost in the First Spanish Civil War because of the secessionist government from Companys, who ended up in prison and then shot dead. The current regional secessionist politicians will end up in prison also, although this time they will not be shot, we are now in democracy and not in war... at least yet.
Then you have the pictures used for propaganda from elderly and children, the same tactic than ISIS.
Those people came to do an illegal act as recognized by the judges applying the Spanish Constitution. Even though they tried to do something illegal the police did not take any action against them for that illegal act. The police went only to seize the materials for the illegal act. What they found then is people trying to avoid them doing their work so they had no option to remove them with proportional force.
Blocking the police with the elderly and children is making them human shields like ISIS does and the world is very aware of that tactic already, it won't work ;)
Why can't the catalans vote ? why can't the spanish vote ? why votes are so badly seen in europe? Why delegate everything to law makers? why can't the people vote on certain issues?
you know representativity.
anyway the spanish governement has become the occupational forces of catalonia... how to change this fact?
As you bring the isis, how where the spanish successful in their last occupations. How many lands have secede spain in the last centuries?
spain seems to be a failed concept and reality... at least if someone center of the world isn't fcb vs rm...
no those pictures, you hate them, and want them censored... you know spanish debt rating etc... it's all about money and the image to protect it.
WTF!? Seems that your brain is getting a bit confused by now, hahaha
You are mixing everything and asking again the same questions:
Why Spaniards from Catalonia cannot vote secession? I answered you already: against European Constitution and Spanish Constitution. Change those two constitutions and then you will be able to legally vote secession.
The Spanish government by definition cannot become occupational forces in the region of Catalonia. A government cannot be occupational forces in its own country!? Hahaha
Failed concept? A country with a history of thousands of years a "failed concept"? Hahahaha, I know that is what the fascist secessionist have taught you since your childhood, so I understand that you are a bit confused... but please, think for your self. Spain is a great country and one of the main countries in the European Union.
I don't want to censor anything, on the contrary, it is your fascist secessionist politicians that have been censoring and teaching hate to anything Spanish for more than 30 years to move forward their secessionist agenda.
Debt rating? Wow... we get in a completely new sphear of knowledge... are you ready t handle it? The western economies are all broken because of social democracy and the welfare state. The US is the biggest debtor in the world with over 30 US$ trillions of debt that they will never be able to repay. We could talk hours and hours about that, in any case, the region of Catalonia is even more broke than the whole of Spain to which it belongs, and the region of Catalonia is part of the reason for the debt of Spain, obviously. In fact, I would say that Catalonia and the Basque regions are the main responsible for the debt of Spain because it was because of them that the crazy system of having 17 inefficient states multiplying by 17 the inefficiencies. Without the autonomous regions will be much more productive and efficient. Think that California has one single government and is of a very similar size and economy than Spain. There is no need at all for 17 mini-states but only one single government for all Spaniards.
Those people came to do an illegal act as recognized by the judges applying the Spanish Constitution. Even though they tried to do something illegal the police did not take any action against them for that illegal act. The police went only to seize the materials for the illegal act. What they found then is people trying to avoid them doing their work so they had no option to remove them with proportional force.
Blocking the police with the elderly and children is making them human shields
lol thanks @yogi we all saw the pictures and the tv reports. It's simple this freedomvigilante is not honest with reality. the real question is his motive($). this is the interesting part. Such people always appears around critical issues, like the right for catalans to self determine their futures and if they want to be part of spain or not.
of course he will use all lies at his disposal. he doesn't care about the facts and apprently has no interest in what happen there.
I wish they paid me for these posts, I would only get some steem, maybe :D
I'm showing the truth that the fascist secessionist had hidden from the Spaniards in Catalonia for more than 30 years. The source of the problems in Catalonia is those fascist secessionists that govern them. It is amazing that the Spaniards in Catalonia don't realize of the very old and childish tactic they use. We are your rulers but all the problems you have is not my fault it is "theirs" (from "Madrid"). Exactly the same that children do "it wasn't me..." hahaha How can you fall for it???? hahaha
Why have the secessionist politicians done this? For the oldest reason in the world, power, and money. They want to be the kings of their own little country by stealing the land of Spain, but they will never ever manage to do it because Spain has the law and the reason on its side.
No the source of the problem is that spain occupies catalonia. Spain had to occupy catalonia otherwise the french would have been beyond the mountain range. This is the main reason why spain occupies catalonia.
look at the real history of the people there, not some artificial 20's century artificial history.
Hello! There is also this hashtag #CatalanReferendum on Twitter.
Terrible pictures! Quite unbelievable this is happening in Europe! Resteemed!
From someone that doesn't know the conflict to the core is still unsettling see this level of violence in a non aggressive event.
Estem votant!!! No podran amb nosaltres aquesta gent! No val la pena discutir amb gent que, ni entén ni ho vol entendre!
Visca Catalunya!!! Resteemed.
We Americans are so blessed to be able to vote and so many of us never do. People from so many countries (South American, African, Far Eastern, and even Europe, it seems.) have nothing like we do. They have no say about their country, what their rites are, no justice, poor and starving, while the higher echelons are living "high on the hog" as they say. Please vote whenever we have an election.
As a European I'm extremely shocked to see this happening. I used to think we were somewhat civilised and pro-democracy. The Spanish government has just proven this is no longer true...
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STOP
CATALONIA IS SPAIN: some politicians want an illegal secession from Spain, ILLEGAL FAKE VOTING!
Imagine that Babaria in Germany wants to separate from Germany, or that Provence wants to separate from France, or California wants to separate from the USA.
Do you think that Germany, France or the USA would allow such secession to happen?
Obviously not, because they are integral parts of their countries, the same than Catalonia is an integral part of Spain since the times before the Roman Invasion of the Iberian Peninsula.
If such an attempt of secession would happen on those countries, they will apply the law to stop it and the police and even the army to enforce the law because that is the reason of being of the police and the army.
That's exactly what is happening in Spain, the law, the Spanish Constitution and the orders from the Judges are being applied to stop an illegal voting instigated by the insurgent regional government in Catalonia.
The police is closing the places where the illegal voting is attempted and seizing all the illegal material, but the police are finding resistance and violence from some people with wounded people and police as result. The police need to use the proportional force when required to complete the work that the judges have ordered them with to enforce the law.
Catalonia is an integral part of Spain and it will always continue to be, that is not negotiable.
In the S.XX the secessionist took us to a Civil War, we are now heading to a similar situation so a future second Civil War in Spain is unfortunately now possible. We hope that this time the international community, Europe, and the UN supports the democratic government of Spain to reject the insurgent secessionists and avoid war.
Catalonia already had an autonomous government with more powers that the government of Scotland have
But what the politicians from the Catalonia region want is not self-governing, that they already have, but complete secession from Spain and that is utterly impossible.
Spaniards are very friendly and peacefull people but we cannot allow some local politicians to execute a secession are steal part of Spain from all the Spanish people.
CATALONIA IS SPAIN
I don't think that the biggest animal abusers can be friendly or peaceful. And nothing can justify beating old lady, it is possible to prevent her to do anything without harming her
The biggest animal abusers are the people that want to steal part of the land of Spain from the rest of Spaniards.
Anyone that tries to prevent the police applying law have it coming to them because law has to be abided.
Blocking the police with the elderly and children are making them human shields and a very law tactic that reminds me of another kind of people using the same tactic...
I have read that the supreme court of spain used urgent laws to prevent the referendum from happening. Apprently the catalans tried already 24 times to have a vote to determine if they prefer to stick to spain or go their own way.
It's quite tragic to see those pictures, and to read you, certainly a paid propagandist by the central occupational government of spain.
please you know full well what is going on. it's spain corrupt politicians are sucking the Catalan tits dry and as such would be afraid to see their cash cow freed.
hahaha,
I wish that I was paid for these posts.... well, actually I am but thanks to Daniel Larimer and SteemIt ;)
If you check my history you will see that I have other posts that are not related to the secession of Catalonia but about cryptocurrencies and personal freedom.
And secession is not freedom, it is fascism trying to impose the will of a few Spaniards from Catalonia to the rest of Spaniards so they steal part of the land of all Spaniards.
You have been very well indoctrinated, the most corrupt politicians in Spain are the ones from Catalonia and Andalucia. Just look at the longtime regional president of Catalonia, Pujol, and his family being tried in court for corruption.
About "sucking the tits" hahaha
Economically Catalonia is far from what it once was, their downfall came when the secessionist and corrupt politicians arrived to the regional government, starting with Pujol and his family tried for corruption and stealing money from all Spaniards.
Catalonia is currently broke, the Spanish government has had to give even more money from the taxes of all Spaniards to Catalonia, taking it away from other regions, so the public services and salaries in the region of Catalonia could be paid for. The government has given this additional money to Catalonia to see if they stop crying (qui no plora no mama) but it is impossible with the secessionist regional politicians.
Furthermore, without Spain Catalonia would be completely broke, without the support from the tax money from the rest of Spaniards, without the Spanish market, outside of the EU (because to enter you need the Spanish vote and you will never ever get it), ostracised internationally...
The "Espanya ens roba" (Spain steals from us) is false, it is exactly the opposite, the ones stealing from the Catalonians and the rest of Spaniards are the regional secessionist politicians from Catalonia.
Hi, thanks for your reply. It's sad, you should offer your services, I am sure they would be interested.
Can you agree that for the secession to be peaceful it's necessary that the catalans and the spanish people both vote. The Catalans first because they are fed up, or at least a part want something new. And then if the vote is successful, who knows if it isn't allowed to happen, the rest of spain can vote too on the subject. Or the reverse. what ever it's true that it should be both side.
No the downfall of catalonia happened when the catalans bosses found that it was easier to hire cheap foreigners ready to work for almost free in barcelona and let the native catalans mostly in the dust due to more qualifications, lower pay and higher knowledge of foreign languages. Then with mass immigrations most low qualifications job pay very little in catalonia as the supply of labor is limitless.
Then on your remark about the spanish behavior if catalonia was to seceded shows that it's not the path toward peace. Why would spain block catalonia entry in the eu? Rather than focus on being a nice neighboor, improving itself to the point were catalans begs to reenter spain.
I know that would ask real work, and it's way simpler to justify smashing with state force people who once were spanish. I am not sure they think of themselves now...
peace is way harder than violence, the dividends infinitely higher, but there need to be honest, factual dialogues. Otherwise force is faster, but does it achieve any dividend at all even when wrapped in a nice narrative packaging?
A secessionist vote is not allowed by Spanish constitution and that is why it was declared illegal.
If you want to vote then first try to change the Spanish Constitution to allow a secessionist poll. If you manage it then try to change the European Constitution that also prevents secessions within member states (1).
Regarding allowing Catalonia in the EU, how can you dream that in a hypothetical secession (that will never happen), after stealing part of the Spanish country, that country is going to have any good relations with you?
If a burglar comes to your home and steals your property, are you going to be friends with him??? Come on, get real! You will want him to be behind bars and to get back your property.
So if secession is currently illegal under Spanish Constitution and European Constitution was is the point of making an illegal, irrelevant and useless vote? Obviously none.
As I said, change both those constitutions first and then we can start talking about all Spaniards deciding if they break Spain apart.
From your comments I also see that you are a xenophobe, of course... what I'm thinking off... secessionism is xenophobism and fascism... hahaha
(1) http://www.venice.coe.int/webforms/documents/default.aspx?pdffile=CDL-INF(2000)002-e
what do you think of the declaration of independence of the United States of America?
They don't want your money. Let them go.
Would you allow someone to take away your land?
So Spaniards will never let some fascist secessionist to steal their land.
Would you let them be if they said they didn't want your land either? Would you let them keep their houses where they are, not pay any taxes or abide by your rules? (And if this was ever an option, how would they know the next generation would keep your word?)
Probably not. Why would you? That's why the only practical way out, as it seems right now, is physical isolation and the establishment of another country.
It may cost you to let current taxpayers and a few children born into a slavery (that you blame on the decissions of their parrents or earlier ancestors) go, but it will be a whole lot more effecient for you all if in the long run if you stop forcing integration.
So let's be OK with beating unarmed old ladies to bloody pulp and make sure people never have the freedom to hold a referendum...
https://twitter.com/ThomasVLinge/status/914464713542635520
What do you expect when you do an illegal act. The police have to enforce law with proportional force and that is what the Spanish police has done like it is done in any democratic and law abiding country.
Don't cry you get what you asked for...
The world is watching... Spain will get what it asked for.
https://twitter.com/hashtag/CatalanReferendum
All the world leaders have already expressed their support to Rajoy. The secessionism is dead!
the referendum has been declared illegal, by an urgent law through the parliament to stop it. I mean, rule of law? lol.
Concerning Rajoy, I know ! It's even frightening and very sad. When you think that all of this and what will come, could have been solved by a vote. Why didn't the central occupational governement of spain plan it? why don't they want democracy?
How will the catalans and spanish feel on monday? Wouldn't a vote be simpler and leave less biterness or even anger and hate? So much pain for so little gain for spain.
If spain was great they wouldn't want to leave...
They want to leave because they have been indoctrinated with lies for more than 30 years. I've seen it myself with my own eyes.
Why have the secessionist politicians done this? For the oldest reason in the world, power, and money. They want to be the kings of their own little country by stealing the land of Spain, but they will never ever manage to do it because Spain has the law and the reason on its side.
Spain is a democracy and Democracy is that all Spaniards decide whether they want a region of Spain to secede or not, anything else is not democracy but an illegal secession of a country against international law, the European Union Constitution and the Spanish Constitution.
The world understands this and that is why all major countries have expressed the support to the Spanish government, from Merkel to Trump.
On Monday the secessionist will be sad, very sad, and if they dare to unilaterally declare secession they will end up with their bones in jail like it happened to Companys the previous time that this happened.
the secessionists don't threaten of violence, they want peaceful independence... easy to see who is the oppressors. what does jfk said about peaceful revolution? Catalan isn't a language? Don't they have an identity, can't they have the right to self rule? How did all the formers colonies of spain secede? btw there is no European Union Constitution. it's just an authoritarian super state with no constitution, using of ruse and deceit to gain more control and income from the area it dominates.
Again, the police have to take proportional force to comply with judicial orders. If old ladies try to stop the police complying with their work they will need to remove them with proportional force and that is exactly what they are doing. There are policemen injured also.
It reminds me of some other type of people using their elderly and children as human shields, a very nasty, dishonest and low tactic
The problem is about the legality of the orders given to the police. actually having order isn't a really good defense line because the real question is the legitimacy of such orders.
Why stop a vote? Isn't spain a democracy? why hasn't the cenntral occupational spanish government isn't issue another date for such a vote? Why aren't the basic tenets of democracy followed?
Then you attempt at deligitimizing the peacefull praticionners of democracy is not going to work. Here sadly for you and contrary to the msm we have "unallowed pictures" of old and young people being beaten by the state occupational forces.
and you know it.
Isn't part of self determination a great value to pursue? Furthermore a world where people can peacefully settle those issues through honest and impartial votes isn't safer for all?
Tomorrow you will get your check for your efforts, in a broken spain? Look at the english who btw belongs Gibraltar, they made a vote, I mean many votes. Results scotland stays in the UK, Brexit on. Violence? Distrusts with the cops? Problems for generations to come? None.
Democracy is that all Spaniards decide whether they want a region of Spain to secede or not, anything else is not democracy but an illegal secession of a country against international law, the European Union Constitution and the Spanish Constitution. The world understands this and that is why all major countries have expressed the support to the Spanish government, from Merkel to Trump.
So Spain is democratic and the secessionist regional politicians are fascist that want to impose their will on the rest of Spaniards by stealing part of the land of Spain from them.
Scotland has less self-governance than what any Spanish autonomous region has. And believe me that the UK has been very lucky (and smart) because the EU doesn't have an army yet. If they had waited for the EU to have its own army Brexit will not have been possible as it stands today.
Many lives were lost in the First Spanish Civil War because of the secessionist government from Companys, who ended up in prison and then shot dead. The current regional secessionist politicians will end up in prison also, although this time they will not be shot, we are now in democracy and not in war... at least yet.
Then you have the pictures used for propaganda from elderly and children, the same tactic than ISIS.
Those people came to do an illegal act as recognized by the judges applying the Spanish Constitution. Even though they tried to do something illegal the police did not take any action against them for that illegal act. The police went only to seize the materials for the illegal act. What they found then is people trying to avoid them doing their work so they had no option to remove them with proportional force.
Blocking the police with the elderly and children is making them human shields like ISIS does and the world is very aware of that tactic already, it won't work ;)
Why can't the catalans vote ? why can't the spanish vote ? why votes are so badly seen in europe? Why delegate everything to law makers? why can't the people vote on certain issues?
you know representativity.
anyway the spanish governement has become the occupational forces of catalonia... how to change this fact?
As you bring the isis, how where the spanish successful in their last occupations. How many lands have secede spain in the last centuries?
spain seems to be a failed concept and reality... at least if someone center of the world isn't fcb vs rm...
no those pictures, you hate them, and want them censored... you know spanish debt rating etc... it's all about money and the image to protect it.
WTF!? Seems that your brain is getting a bit confused by now, hahaha
You are mixing everything and asking again the same questions:
Why Spaniards from Catalonia cannot vote secession? I answered you already: against European Constitution and Spanish Constitution. Change those two constitutions and then you will be able to legally vote secession.
The Spanish government by definition cannot become occupational forces in the region of Catalonia. A government cannot be occupational forces in its own country!? Hahaha
Failed concept? A country with a history of thousands of years a "failed concept"? Hahahaha, I know that is what the fascist secessionist have taught you since your childhood, so I understand that you are a bit confused... but please, think for your self. Spain is a great country and one of the main countries in the European Union.
I don't want to censor anything, on the contrary, it is your fascist secessionist politicians that have been censoring and teaching hate to anything Spanish for more than 30 years to move forward their secessionist agenda.
Debt rating? Wow... we get in a completely new sphear of knowledge... are you ready t handle it? The western economies are all broken because of social democracy and the welfare state. The US is the biggest debtor in the world with over 30 US$ trillions of debt that they will never be able to repay. We could talk hours and hours about that, in any case, the region of Catalonia is even more broke than the whole of Spain to which it belongs, and the region of Catalonia is part of the reason for the debt of Spain, obviously. In fact, I would say that Catalonia and the Basque regions are the main responsible for the debt of Spain because it was because of them that the crazy system of having 17 inefficient states multiplying by 17 the inefficiencies. Without the autonomous regions will be much more productive and efficient. Think that California has one single government and is of a very similar size and economy than Spain. There is no need at all for 17 mini-states but only one single government for all Spaniards.
Ah yes, they are only there as human shield. They didn't come because they wanted to vote...
https://twitter.com/Alba_ilar/status/914450805364846594
Again, you're not fooling anyone...
Those people came to do an illegal act as recognized by the judges applying the Spanish Constitution. Even though they tried to do something illegal the police did not take any action against them for that illegal act. The police went only to seize the materials for the illegal act. What they found then is people trying to avoid them doing their work so they had no option to remove them with proportional force.
Blocking the police with the elderly and children is making them human shields
lol thanks @yogi we all saw the pictures and the tv reports. It's simple this freedomvigilante is not honest with reality. the real question is his motive($). this is the interesting part. Such people always appears around critical issues, like the right for catalans to self determine their futures and if they want to be part of spain or not.
of course he will use all lies at his disposal. he doesn't care about the facts and apprently has no interest in what happen there.
I wish they paid me for these posts, I would only get some steem, maybe :D
I'm showing the truth that the fascist secessionist had hidden from the Spaniards in Catalonia for more than 30 years. The source of the problems in Catalonia is those fascist secessionists that govern them. It is amazing that the Spaniards in Catalonia don't realize of the very old and childish tactic they use. We are your rulers but all the problems you have is not my fault it is "theirs" (from "Madrid"). Exactly the same that children do "it wasn't me..." hahaha How can you fall for it???? hahaha
Why have the secessionist politicians done this? For the oldest reason in the world, power, and money. They want to be the kings of their own little country by stealing the land of Spain, but they will never ever manage to do it because Spain has the law and the reason on its side.
No the source of the problem is that spain occupies catalonia. Spain had to occupy catalonia otherwise the french would have been beyond the mountain range. This is the main reason why spain occupies catalonia.
look at the real history of the people there, not some artificial 20's century artificial history.
They should. Any country or group of people should be allowed to secede.
Secession should be considered a human right.
That's your opinion, but it is not international law... so be it.