Is the Big Bang Actually Religion Masquerading As Science?

in #science8 years ago (edited)

I have a confession to make. As a child I did something absolutely awful...

When I was a child, my grade school teacher bought me an ant farm for my birthday. I remember excitedly getting it all setup the moment I got home from school that day. Every day, I would come home from school and check it. Every day the industrious ants had built a new tunnel. Going back and forth across the tunnels, clearing new paths and thinking about...

whatever it is that ants think...

Then one day, the Space Shuttle Challenger blew up!

My teacher, who was at that time, literally the closest friend I had in this world, broke down screaming and crying. I tried to give her a hug, but she slapped me. I found out years later that the reason she flipped out, was because one of her childhood friends had been on that spaceship.

I ran home and in a fit of anger I shook the whole farm up like an etch a sketch.
Then I sat it upside down on my bookshelf, sat in the corner and cried.

I mention this, because this same teacher had taught me, that from the perspective of 4 dimensional spacetime, our universe looks a lot like an antfarm. But we aren't the ants...

We're the tunnels...

You might ask yourself why an elementary teacher would try to teach a child something like that? I really don't know. I wasn't exactly teacher's pet. In fact I was the most disruptive kid in school. I spent the bulk of elementary school gaining a great deal of expertise in the janitorial arts and sciences.

So the very few interactions I remember having with my teachers, are literally the very few interactions I actually had with my teachers. They always seemed to be trying to give me some sort of far out, way out of the way thought experiment to consider. In retrospect, I think it may have been their way of getting me to calm down in class and just veg to my own thoughts, as my mind tried to wrap itself around the infinite.

Why am I telling you this?
It's because, despite being a perfectly valid solution to Einstein's equations. Despite being supported by observations of things like the CMB.

I don't think I've ever bought into the creation ex-nihlo of the big bang!

Here's why...
It requires way too many mental gymnastics to rewind the universe to that single point wherein all things, that will ever be, are.

Furthermore, as I learned about things like the Schwarzschild Radius, I quickly came to realize that anything which posits putting everything in the whole universe, into a single point, cannot possibly be physical. We would immediately collapse into a blackhole. This also ignores the fact that there are fundamental limits on just how large a blackhole can get.

Thus the inflationary epoch was added to explain why we didn't immediately collapse.

Somehow, some way, there was a mysterious force which caused the universe to expand supraluminally (faster than light) to an exact size just beyond the Schwarzschild Radius.
Exactly enough to prevent collapse. Then suddenly it stopped and suddenly the laws of physics as we know them come into being. In the meantime all the matter and anti-matter annihilated eachother leaving a barely perceptible amount of matter as the winner.

We have a term for this expansion energy. It's a real thing. It's called Lambda or Dark energy. It was put into relativity by Einstein because the natural evolution of a relativistic spacetime is towards collapse. He put it in, because he believed the universe was static and unchanging.

While I don't claim to know everything. I do know that when a theory gets too complex, it's because the scientists have found religion and are now unable to look past it to other possibilities, including religion or spirituality.
When you merely accept what you've been told as fact, this is belief, i.e. religion. It is no longer science.

Science requires the bravery and the freedom to stand up and question everything everyone else knows to be true, including yourself.

I don't think that religion is bad per se. But religion and spirituality, should be used for asking the "Why" of a thing, while science should be used for asking the "How" of the thing. Two different tools for two different questions.

So here's the deal. I don't doubt that relativity is real. I don't doubt that lambda (aka Dark Energy) is real.
I'm even wiling to accept solutions that posit a big rip in our future. This matches observations and available data.

I'm no luddite, I just wonder...
What if the big rip was in the past already?
If so, then perhaps we don't really need a big bang?

The original source of the idea of an "inflationary epoch" was a Soviet scientist. I can no longer remember his name. I was about 4 or 5 when he published his paper and I don't know that it ever saw the light of day in the USA. I only know about it's existence from some heated debates on Usenet in the early 1990s.

He posited the existence of an eternally inflating hyperspace field. His explanation made sense to my mind at the time. Basically our universe came into existence as we dropped out of hyperspace from something moving faster than light. Faster than light, is also backwards in time, if Einstein is to be believed.

To his mind, what we see as the observable universe was actually the result of some section of this field "tunneling down" to a lower energy state. This lower energy state would also change the arrow of time and if electron/positron time reversal symmetry is true, then the matter/antimatter annihilation epoch would literally be these particles meeting themselves in a complex, self intersecting worldline.

This was posited by Feynman & Wheeler as an explanation for spontaneous positron / electron annihilation and Nambu expanded upon, when he said.

"the eventual creation and annihilation of any pairs that may occur now and then is no creation or annihilation, but only a change of direction of moving particles, from past to future, or from future to past."

If this is so, isn't that absolutely fascinating???

To my mind, that would mean that our universe is the result of a quantum tunneling event.

The original theory was widely discredited because it posited an unknown energy entering the universe from a time reversed symmetric field, under folding and collapse. At this time, lambda energy was unknown.
Yet to my mind, Lambda Energy aka Dark Energy would be this hyperspace field continuing to tunnel down into our universe.

We all know that a vacuum crisis event would spread outward in a sphere at the speed of light. This might also be possible if space and time are the same thing, just different folds of a single evolving field.

If true, then the CMB is merely the result of our universe initially dropping out of hyperspace.
Meaning we were already far larger than the radius needed to prevent collapse,at the T=0 point in our thermodynamic worldline.

This would make the CMB similar to the leading energy edge of an Alcubierre metric coming out of hyperspace as well.

That leading edge is expected to be an extremely energetic event that would destroy any star system we managed to arrive at.
It would look like an intense GRB event from far off. Far back in time, is also far back in space.

What's really neat about this explanation is that the CMB event, literally would be baby pictures from the first moments of the universe and what we envision as a "big bang" is no longer ex-nihlo. In fact it doesn't exist.
The universe has a source. That source would be the eternally stretching, hyperspace field.

Yet that isn't completely satisfying. You're left wondering, where this field came from?
To my mind, the answer is obvious. At some point, the vacuum energy density of our Universe becomes supraluminal. We call it the big rip.

Yes it would require time to effectively build enough energy to flip into a different direction. But Quaternary return has been posited for a very long time. It's mechanism has never been specified, but I really don't see any reason why it would be impossible.

A recent paper explains something very interesting goes on inside of blackholes. It posits that thermodynamic time runs separate from mathematical time and can run backwards. If this is a valid solution to the internals of a blackhole and blackholes are fundamentally just solutions to Einstein's equations and our Universe too is fundamentally solvable by Einstein's equations. Then doesn't this make a bit more sense than a big bang? While also being much,much simpler?

What we view as time's arrow is merely the result of thermodynamic time progressing towards entropy. But there are two degrees of freedom in thermodynamic time, just not for the ants per se.

I don't know the answer to be perfectly honest. I can visualize this, because my grade school teacher taught me to view the ants as just an unbelievably huge number of atoms, all working to build something in their own little universe. That something was a tunnel and the tunnel was basically me.

Their entire universe destroyed, with down turned up and up turned down. For their part, many of the ants survived and immediately got back to work. It was only a few months before everything returned to normal. The tunnels were a little different, but basically the same, as was I.

So from the perspective of any little kid who might be looking in at our little universe, sitting on the bookshelf in the corner of the room.

I wonder if we're the ants, the tunnels or

Something else entirely...

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Hi @williambanks
Good post but I am no scientist, thus it is a bit above me. I am actually glad that I am no scientist as it makes things to complicated. The bible states on must believe as a child, I am a simple railway worker, which is almost the same thing, thus it is very simple for me, I just believe God created everything.
I see you just try to explain a small portion, I have one question, where did hyperspace come from?
I know you would ask me almost the same, where did God come from, my answer again is simple, I don't know, I just believe He was there forever.

My answer to where the field came from is that we must first find a thing before we can ask where it came from.

Imagine you are walking down a long length of track in an area that is deserted and there is no way to know who may have come before.

Laying on the ground you find $100. This is exactly enough to buy medicine for your sick child.

Religion would say "God did this" and that is sufficient for your inquiry.

I don't know that I would disagree with that, but if it were me, then on the walk home I would be considering all the possible ways that money would have come to me. Ultimately I would arrive at the conclusion that it must have fallen from someone's wallet.
But who's wallet? Maybe a fellow workers?

So then I would head back to the station and ask my fellow workers, "Did anyone lose something today, like a credit card or cash or something". If no one spoke up, I would then consider the possibility that it blew from someone's table maybe miles away.

At some level they are ultimately knowable, but do I have the courage to seek them out? Or do I just accept the answer that God did it? I can't answer that question until I find $100 while walking down a long stretch of abandoned track.

Hi @williambanks
Thanks for the answer and explanation, you made it real simple to understand. (Just to add a bit, I am not against a theory like in your post or the big bang theory, from my point of view God could have used any method to create the universe.)
Thanks again

I agree with Tuck and his reasons.... But this ain't the place. I followed you so I can upvote later and help with rep though

You're commenting too deep for me to reply.
I'm knocking off for the night, but will check back periodically. I don't sleep well at night anymore. New allergy meds messing me up. We can chat tomorrow?

Just be nice to laurel from now on please. I dunno what was going on with you two. But it made me feel terrible to see that play out.

How nice and why? maybe between two rational people like you and me we can solve this conflict once and for all. Who knows?

background music :

I respect you, lets talk

you show me a more effective method of dealing with these people,
and I will try it, in my current situation of -1 rep etc, this is the best solution I could come up with. Im all ears

Thanks but he's fine. I would have hated to miss out on tuck just because I was too busy with my own stuff.

Then I will add my vote to yours :)

Thank you for being reasonable

Please refrain from upvoting earnest. His negative reputation is well earned. He has a history of stalking and criminal harassment on this site. There's no need make it a recurring issue by voting him back up...

@bacchist

We're trying to get him to reform. Olive branch, not a whip.
The guy has more than a dozen alts, some of them are highly valued but unrecognized contributors on this platform. That's how he's playing this game because he felt he couldn't win playing by the rules he was given.

If we can value him as a person and make him realize that there are real people who want to be actual friends, I believe he'll stop trying to burn the place down.
Also did you notice where I said he needed to stop being that way?
I don't think he saw laurel as real person with actual feelings to even hurt at least not at first. He was venting something that hurt him badly, at someone who reminded him of the someone who hurt him.

People have value and ultimately people want to connect and be valued.
Past behaviors do not deserve a scarlet letter if people extend a genuine hand of friendship.

Hi @williambanks. Please check my most recent post to see @earnest miraculous reformation.

The one thing that I latched onto is:

Faster than light, is also backwards in time, if Einstein is to be believed.

Black holes came to mind. If no light escapes then they must be traveling faster than light. I am certainly misrepresenting the following because of my limited knowledge (and memory) but I remember watching something about this theory where its density is so massive that anything approaching it would appear from a distance to be in suspended animation. In my thinking, anything that could possible escape - or go through it may find themselves perhaps not in a different universe, but the same one in a different dimension or time. Imagine if we could find a way to bend space and walk through "the door" to another place. It's pure science fiction to me, but it does take my imagination to a different level.

As far as I am concerned the universe has already ended and we are just waching still pictures of it since we are trapped in space-time

https://steemit.com/life/@kyriacos/order-is-but-an-illusion-chaos-is-all-there-is

Fascinating look on the Universe!

So, we are the tunnels... Spacetime used the available materials to create us, just as the ants use available materials to create the tunnels.

A couple of questions. I don't think scientists claim the Big Bang was ex nihilo. Rather, they say, Our available science can't explain where the material came from. Does that alter your perspective at all?

If you imagine size as a dimension, then things that are infinitely small to us could be infinitely large to the inhabitants of that dimension. Hence plank-level smallness acts strange to us because we're looking into another plane of existence. And our whole universe could be as small as a point to a viewer of a higher plane.... someone so large that our universe is a point in a black hole.

Makes me wonder what happens to matter wirhin a black hole in our universe. Does it evolve into its own universe?

I love that God's - eye view image.

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I'm afraid the premise stated in the title of this article was never justified in it's contents. This just seems like an attempt to equate unfounded religious belief with reasoned, observation based tentative "beliefs" in science.

Also no one of any importance on the subject actually talks about the big bang with any certainty. Their language is always couched in "we don't really know" "we think" "current models indicate".

The big bang is just a place holder for a mysterious point we may never be able to truly know about. I'd love to know about a religion that claims NOT to have the answers.

You need to realize that the title is a question not a statement.
The question is a valid one. In part because the big bang has become an accepted part of the popular consciousness and is accepted without question by virtually everyone now.

Yet there are alternative explanations for the universe. I posited one and I'm certain there are others.
The core of this post being, that any time you have learned to substitute belief for inquiry, you have substituted religion for science.

I didn't say that everyone has done this. I'm just pointing out that I never was able to accept it, and what my reasoning is. Then again I've never viewed time as an absolutely linear thing either.

I hope you'll take the posting for what it is, a simple meditation on a complex question.

I think the question can be answered rather quickly. No, it's not religion masquerading as Science. People believe in Science because it works and has proven reliable. People usually also understand scientific beliefs are tentative.

The dogma of religion doesn't have the same foundation for belief.

You missed the point. I didn't say all of science. I asked if specifically the big bang theory was religion masquerading as science.

If you accept something without question, then it is religion.
If you find no questions to ask because you are satisfied that is the final answer, then that is religion.
If you accept something because someone in authority has told it to you and handwaved the complexities away as "unknowable", or "it just is". Then that too is religion. Religion represents a point where we simply say... We've hit a fundamental limit. Absolutes and infinities are examples of this. As are turtles all the way down arguments. I'm starting to think that spherical cows may be as well.

You'll notice that I don't handwave away here until the end. I keep digging at what's bothering me about the theory like it's something stuck in my craw, until it comes completely out and I managed to arrive at an plausible alternative.

There is still the question, of "If the universe is a single field being folded, what is doing the folding?" There is also the question of "Why is that field doing that? Why is the field there? Where did it come from? How did it come into being?" I realize that on at least 2 of these I've reached religion or at least spirituality. But at least I pushed back a little and maybe something will push back and I'll find this is all a deadend after all.

But at least I asked and asking was the point.

"If you accept something without question, then it is religion.
If you find no questions to ask because you are satisfied that is the final answer, then that is religion.
If you accept something because someone in authority has told it to you and handwaved the complexities away as "unknowable", or "it just is". Then that too is religion"

I understand and agree with that and by your own criteria I don't see a belief in the big bang as being anything close to religion. The big bang is still a mystery and I just don't see the same level of ardent belief in it that you are referring to with religion.

I think most people understand and simply believe it is our best scientific explanation that meets with the observable facts so far. I've never met a single person that holds to the big bang as a belief in a religious manner.

I still think the question can be quickly answered with a no.

@williambanks

great article. i am actually constructing something along these lines

What are your thoughts, preconstruction? I've always felt we have similar world views.

@williambanks

Sorry I made two posts on this thread and it got confusing. Check an earlier post of mine

https://steemit.com/life/@kyriacos/order-is-but-an-illusion-chaos-is-all-there-is

The big bang option works very well. That is why this is the preferred explanation so far. Of course there may be other options, and there is actually no way to tell / test them. We need to be open minded here.

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Damn you. I have been on a negative steemit trip and this article.... Was good!

Curse you, let me wallow in pessimism and quit injecting good quality articles into my life.... K? Thanks :)

Seriously, I like how you pulled this all together. Well done

Thank you! That reminds me, I need to stop navel gazing and start reading other's posts again. I was giving my voting power a rest for a few days cuz I ran it to 0.

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