EcoTrain QoTW: Who are more culpable for inequality and injustice, the people who make rules and laws or the people who follow and enforce them?

in #ecotrain6 years ago

@Eco-Alex questions: Who are more culpable for inequality and injustice, the people who make rules and laws or the people who follow and enforce them? Is the notion "I'm just doing my job" ethical?

My answer to this question is D) None of the above

But first, i have to tear this question apart.

"inequality and injustice"? Seriously? These do not have any meaning in our time.
Inequality of opportunity or inequality of outcome? Both have had their meanings muddied so much as to be meaningless. In any system where you have humans, there is inequality.
Man vs Woman, who will win? Well, if the contest is having babies, its all over.

And injustice... seriously? There is no justice, there is just us.
Justice is a nice concept, but if you ever try to pin it down, after much deep thought, you find that there is no definition. There is nothing that works.
There is nothing that makes things whole after a crime has been committed.

- - - - - - -

So, we will have to restate this question.

Who are more culpable for the crimes committed, the people who give the orders or the people who follow and enforce them?

A) The order givers
B) The order followers
C) both of the above
D) none of the above

So, on one hand, we have a group of people who follow orders, who are ASSUMED would not do atrocities unless cajoled in some way.

And on the other, we have a group that is pure evil incarnate and want to see 90% of earthlings dead.

Both of these are untrue, and the reality is far worse.

WWII didn't happen because of Hitler. In fact, many time travellers have tried to kill Hitler. Every time someone takes his place and does about the same thing.

So, we we have to look at things on a broader stage.
In this instance the people of Germany where being robbed blind by "them" who were all the countries that they had beat in the war. They were left in a bind of ... why don't you all just go die. This created much resentment and the huge ball of resentment that was WWI added to the pile, and so, we had another world war.

Who was responsible? Just about everyone.
The only ones not responsible where people who were actively trying to make reparations and find win-win solutions.
And that was very few people.

As an instance, try doing what Gandhi did, suggest to people to just take the beating and do not fight back.
What you resist persists.

And thus, the order givers and the order followers where all part of a larger emotional mess that resulted in WWII.

- - - - - - -

However, that is not really answering the question.
Because the questioner actually means, "If you are a nazi, do you start killing jews, or do you go against the system?"

Which is a rather mean question, which breaks down to:

  1. Do you kill yourself / your family?
  2. Do you kill other people?

Well, which one do you do? At this moment all of your other options have been stripped from you. There were people who read the writing on the wall and got out of Dodge. But, you didn't, so what are you going to do?

Your nice, quiet life of not having to kill anyone is over. Your put in your hours and get your paycheck is on the line. What everyone in the community thinks of you is on the line. You will be ostracized or worse.

Very few people have the fortitude to kill themselves.
There were Buddhist monks who dowsed themselves in gasoline and set themselves on fire because they would not be part of the war.

There is no easy and nice answer to the question.
The game has been dealt. There is no getting up from the table.

Do you condemn people for placing their lives above other peoples?

- - - - - - -

Now, here is the reality of the psychopath ruled world we live in.
Psychopaths love to give people two choices that are both destructive.

The Trolley Problem is one such example. Do you kill one guy to save five?

That we still teach the Trolley Problem in schools means that we haven't gotten past this. The solution is easy and obvious, once you know the solution.

The answer is "None of the Above".

The accurate answer to the Trolley Problem is you stop believing in the system, the structure that says you are alone and that you have to make this choice.

Real answer are like this. A miracle happens. (and miracles happen all the time) Instead of the trolley breaking down and running away, it breaks down to where its wheels lock up. And then, out of no where, 6 vigilantes jump out and save all the people tied to the tracks. All while you video record the actual criminal who set all this up post it for all the world to see.

The psychopath says you have to choose, kill one or kill five.
The psychopath insists that there are no other answers.
And we just accept this as normal. As something you ask a class of students.

The Trolley Problem is abhorrent to all psychologically well people.

- - - - - - -

So too is the problem we have with order givers and order followers.
The structure that the psychopaths have created is, you follow the orders or your life is in jeopardy.

It is the structure that is the problem.
This is what is discussed in depth in the book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

If we got rid of all the people in govern-cement right now...
If we hung everyone in D.C. (they are all psychopaths, right?)
Everything would soon be back to the way it was.

The structure is what has to change.

Some examples of changes that would work better:

Laws should not be passed by 51%. They should be passed by 90%.
If it is a law, then most people already follow it.

Then, the law enforcers should vote on whether they will enforce the law.

Finally, the public should decide its constitutionality and appropriateness.
If the people do not ratify it, it should be null and void.

Further, we should vote with our tax dollars. Every year, with our tax forms, we should send in a page that states where the funds should be allocated to. And if some department is not doing its job as the people see, then it is closed down due to lack of funds. Or, in other words, an active opt-in system. (better yet is you send your donations to the branches of the protectorate that you want to support)

The culpability rests on all of us. We are all interconnected. We cannot single out any person as to blame for all the worlds problems. As long as we continue to make a distinction of one group is the "bad guys" then we all fail.
We also fail when we allow a person to commit atrocities because "its the law" or they are "in charge".

- - - - - - -

All images in this post are my own original creations.

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great to see you join us this week!
a strong post and has given me a lot of food for thought.. ill be writing soon on this!

id like to pickup on one point you made:

Which is a rather mean question, which breaks down to:

Do you kill yourself / your family?
Do you kill other people?

That is a very polarised way to look at the situation. There were of course many people who went against the system in subtle ways .. and that they may have been RISKING death or punishment but not certain to it.. whereas those they saved were certainly going to die.

This is a hard one! We are in a way asking if everyone should be a hero in order to be considered innocent or not culpable for crimes that they played a part in. If we look at the heros in our movies, they would not flinch to risk their lives to save others, or their team, or planet. That is a theme that is played out in Hollywood over and over again.. SO why is it that we look up to these heros then? Maybe it is easy to be intimidated into submission, but i think i have to say, screw them, i will fight for justice and truth, and the right thing.. even if i have to put my life on the line..

i do agree the structure has to change, and i think US pushing back is going to be a big part of that. The push back doesn't have to be violent anymore, we have power in numbers and an ability to coordinate ourselves using technology in ways that we never could before. For me the main structural change is decentralisation, that is KEY, the golden nugget! That means either waiting for the system to fail, or doing something to reclaim our earth and our lives from tyranny.

more to come in my post.. thanks for this, a great contribution to the QOTW!

A little from column A, a little from column B.

I'm thinking you really enjoyed making this post.
I hope you did.
Too many people want life to be black and white, with a good guy(themselves) and a bad guy(others).
Real life doesn't work that way. We are all good and bad.
The "small" choices I make on a daily basis, meaning how I interact with others, are the ones that shape my world. And influence those around me.
Good choices typically cost me something. Time or money. No positive return guaranteed. I make these choices because it feels right to me. If I do get a positive return, it doesn't come quick.
Bad choices I make because of my self centered nature. Payoffs I get are usually quick, and feel shtty quickly also.
I don't see any way for me to change the whole world. All I can do is affect the people I interact with today, starting with myself.

I think the biggest problem are the zombies who think they aren't part of all these atrocities. If you pay taxes then you're funding terrorism. If you don't pay taxes you'll be terrorized.

Terrorism breeds more terrorism, so there really is no correct answer.

Like with the AntiFascists, all they can do is create more fascism.

With only good intentions, but no study into how the system works and no meditation of why you are not in alignment with the solutions, then all that can be created is more of the same, more problems.

A person who is angry at people being racist will create more racism. It is a universal law. And although they will shout to the roof that they are against racism, their life will be full of exclusionary tactics. Such is the way of anger. It blinds you to what you are doing. Getting angrier seems like the natural solution.


The correct answers are weird.

The meek shall inherit the earth.
Meek meaning: someone who shows his belly. Or basically, if someone attacks you, tell them, they are the winner, and then when they have gone, go back to what you were doing.

Do not fight for your way, just go your way.
And when your way is in harmony with nature and natural law it will yield abundance.

The way to handle terrorism is to shine a light on it. The ones who want terror are creatures that want the dark / live in the shadows. When a light is shown on them, they will become agitated to the point of self destruction.

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