Daily Dose of Sultnpapper 08/14/18> Maybe a hammer is needed…Bob was wrong.
Bob, Bob, Bob...
Well, I have lost a little faith in Bob. You remember Bob, the mechanic with the guzbucking big sledge hammer from a few days ago, right? Yes, that Bob.
By the way, it wasn’t that big of a sledge hammer only the 3 pound size, but evidently even cars don’t liked to beaten with a hammer so when Bob whacked the starter on the oldest boy’s old IROC Z last week, the Z promptly started in response to being given a solid hit. I guess cars have feelings too.
I jokingly said...
That lead Bob to believe it was the starter that needed replaced. I jokingly said I needed to check with Bob on what size hammer the boy needed when he asked me to make sure he got the correct part to fix his Camaro. Well, as I previously stated, I didn’t think it was the starter and after going to the trouble and expense over the weekend and replacing the starter on Saturday it started a grand total a five times before it wouldn’t start again.
I got it correct...
So it turns out that I was correct and Bob was wrong this time. Bob isn’t wrong very often that I know of but this has caused me to lose just a little faith in what he has to say when it comes to diagnosing car problems.
Not the starter...
So at this point I can’t say for sure what is causing the issue but I can damn sure say it is not the starter as we were inclined to believe. However it does bring up a topic for discussion and that would be auto mechanics.
Geeks or nerds...
The automobile industry has really gotten itself to a place now where in order to diagnose problems the mechanics damn near need to be geeks or nerds. There is so much computer driven equipment is in these cars now a days that it seems that you have to have a diagnostic computer and scanner to be able to even have a clue at what is going on with the engine or transmission and the air conditioning systems.
Stingy bastards they are...
Not only do you need the diagnostic equipment but it also seems that the car manufacturers have gotten real stingy on just what information they are willing to share with independent mechanic shops or with third party manufacturers of test equipment when it comes to their vehicles they produce. They only want their factory authorized dealerships doing the maintenance and repair on the stuff they manufacture. Independent shops like Bob’s are disappearing at a pretty steady pace and it may just come down to the only choice you have is to try and repair the vehicle yourself or to have the dealership do it for you.
A bad idea...
One of the worst ideas that the folks in Detroit came up with in my opinion was electronic fuel injection. There wasn’t a damn thing wrong with mechanical carburetors from a performance standpoint. Those carburetors worked for decades and a person with some mechanical aptitude and some patience could take them apart and put them back together with a reasonable expectation that they would work again without problems. Most engines only had one carburetor but there could be as many as eight if it were some exotic racing engine.
Electronic fuel injection...
Electronic fuel injection varies in how they work, some engines have an injector for each cylinder and it is controlled by the computer that determines the amount of air that is being supplied to the engine at the time the cylinder needs to fire and then supplies just the right amount of fuel, sometimes measure in milliseconds that the injector is shooting fuel into the cylinder.
To much "rigga ma roll"...
The computer has to take into consideration the amount of time that both the intake and exhaust valves are open and closed, engine RPM speed and a whole host of other parameters including ambient air temperature and engine temperature so as to make sure that it is working at its optimum performance level. That’s just too much “rigga ma roll” as my Dad used to say.
Other fuel injection systems just have one injector and use what is called a throttle body, but all the same calculations pretty much have to take place and that also includes how much spark needs to be applied to each cylinder, which I forgot to mention on the single cylinder injection type.
EFI hasn't done anything...
The bottom line is, the EFI hasn’t done anything earth shattering in terms of performance or exhaust gas emissions reduction but has added a whole lot of expense and upkeep to maintaining the vehicles. That is just one of many things we could discuss but this isn’t @sultnpapper's “car corner” so we’ll just leave it at that.
Hate is a strong word...
I hate computer systems on cars, plain and simple, hate them with a passion. Computers are damn near throw away items now, and the use of them in cars is making it where cars are becoming throw away items as well.
Leasing in my future...
I can’t ever see me purchasing another new car, leasing will be the route I go in the future to keep the Mrs. happy. If I had it my way, it would be all 50’s or early 60’s models in the driveway but I can’t always have things my way.
Maybe a dream...
Alright enough venting for today, you have better things to do with your time and I need to get some sleep. Maybe I can call on the sleep world to give me the answer to IROC Z problem in a dream tonight.
Until next time,
@sultnpapper
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Yes, there is to many things that we have on cars now that can go wrong. I like plain and simple and these vehicles now are anything but that. My truck has the air sensors too and while they are helpful, they do screw up and give false readings, I know that from experience.
Well, God knows I've tinkered with a couple of carbs in my life. I'm reasonably adept at balancing multiple carbs on motors, I own a great gauge set up that will allow me to tune 4 at a time. And I know that I'm the only guy in Yuma that has a good working knowledge of Stromberg side draft pieces.
That said, EFI was a good change in the motorcycle world. Throttle body or straight performance and fuel mileage and horsepower went up significantly. Connie packs 140 rwhp in 1.4 liters. 20 years ago the only motorcycles that had 140 hp were very exotic racing bikes. Connie is a detuned beast that does really well on the street.
The levels and layers have indeed changed. When I buy a motorcycle I also buy a shop manual. In the case of Connie the cost was $150 and that was 9 years ago. At least Kawasaki, Honda and Suzuki (the three I've had recently) give people like me and independent shops a decent chance at service and repair.
While I am handing out MFG kudos I should mention Ducati. With the help of the shop manual I learned to adjust the valves on that incredibly exotic system (no valve springs-the valves are pushed open and pulled closed). It's an amazingly complex system that really makes horsepower appear. And to Ducati's credit they have been making the adjustment interval longer and longer over the years. Mine was 4000 miles, and the new SS model calls for 18,000.
Doesn't mean I have so much as a speculation on the IROC. Just not even a clue. In defense of your friend Bob, even Ted Williams struck out on occasion.
Yes, Bob is usually right and I guess that I was just wanting to gloat a little since I was on record about saying I didn't believe it was the starter. My experience with starters was telling me that I would at least hear the solenoid try to engage and it never makes even the faintest click when it fails to start.
I will get it figured out, it might take some time but just like the van, it is studying and testing. I have told the boy that we need to keep tract and see if there is some type of pattern we can establish for a clue.
I never fooled with any Stromberg side draft carbs but I have messed with a bunch of Holley's and Quadra Jets.
It should almost be a requirement that when you purchase a vehicle that you get access to the shop manuals and data online now, even if you have to pay a one time fee in the price of the vehicle. The manufacturers would probably make more money and most people would never use it but for those of us who like to do our own work it would sure come in handy. The Hanes and Chilton books are good for showing how to remove and replace things but not much good on diagnostic procedures. I bought one for the van when I was working on solving that problem, and because they are sealed and you can't look through them at the store I had to buy it and then get it home to find out that the section I needed was "left out" because it was to technical for the average backyard mechanic to comprehend, that was a waste of money but it may come in handy in the future on something else.
It sounds like for bikes the EFI is a good thing and the Japs at least give you access to the info, I just don't see it in the cars as a necessary item, but maybe I am just to "old school" on things.
Technology has advanced in so many ways and some of them good, but often I think some manufacturers including but not limited to Car Makers feel the need they need to add electronics to everything to be seen as innovative and such
But often I think its just not really needed and just another gimmick that can fail
The term is "planned obsolescence" as was pointed out to me on a different daily dose when I was discussing the computer issues with the old van. I can't remember who it was that supplied the link to a great video that went into a lot of detail on just how some companies even embed a time for the item to fail. One such item was the printers for home computers, after so many prints it would fail by design from a self activating shut down tied to the internal counter.
Some guy figured it out and wrote a program to reset the counter, so if your printer fails go online and search that, it might just be you have one of those models and can be back printing stuff in a matter of minutes rather than having to buy a new printer. I'll look later and see if I can find that, in fact I remember doing a follow up on that, I will find that link and add it later I have to get going right now.
@sultnpapper Yes I remember that video Its a sad state of how us consumers are screwed over these days
Car maintenance is just too ridiculously expensive nowadays. I agree that all of the added computer functions has a lot to do with that. Relying on the dealerships definitely is the most expensive route. That’s why everyone needs a family mechanic. They don’t make cars as strong and solid as they used to. It seems the older models can take wear and tear better and even hold their shape after a car accident. If one of those 50’s or 60’s cars gets dented it bounces right back to its regular state.
I sure hope you figure out the problem, too bad you couldn’t rely on Bob this time.
I like my 20-year-old car. Fewer things go wrong on it and I can repair a lot of stuff myself and what I can't I do have a reliable mechanic. If I had my way I would buy a 1960's VW Beetle. The only thing wrong with them was the heater for the winter, but down here, a heater is unnecessary. It is big business (rackett) for the dealerships to have cars returning every three months for maintenance, or your warranty is null and void.
The old VW were sure simple and I had one back in the 80's it was a 1964 model, great on miles per gallon.
Oh, I'm so with you on this one! I drive a 13-year-old Toyota, and when I decide it's time for a new one, it will be an even older car. A couple of weeks ago a friend drove me and two others to an outdoor climbing venue. Unfortunately she sprained her ankle while climbing, and I had to drive her car home. It was a nice car to drive, but a bit like a computer on wheels. The "key" was a little plastic electronic card and you had to press a button while putting your foot on the brake in order to start the thing. I'm clearly becoming an old fogey, at least where cars are concerned. But computers can be hacked, and I wouldn't want to drive something that could be hacked!
At a walk I'd organised a few weeks ago, a couple turned up in a BMW that had a flat tyre. The woman joined the walk, but her partner was unable to, as he had to wait for assistance to get the tyre changed, as it was a high-tech high-pressure one that needs a special kit to change it!
I have no desire to get anything new in the vehicle category unless they can go back and build them without the computers, end of story.
To bad about your friend and her ankle, but it did give you a chance to appreciate your old car just a little more.
Even changing a tire has gotten to the point that you do need assistance, some cars I am told no longer even come with a spare tire, just a canister of what we call" fix a flat " that you shoot into the tire through the valve stem for the air, and it fills and seals the tire until you can get somewhere to get the tire fixed.