Regarding Flags vs. Downvotes
https://steemit.com/poll/@steemitblog/poll-flags-or-downvotes
SteemIt, Inc has presented a question to the community regarding flags vs. downvotes and although it's an old topic I happen to think this is important.
The flag feature has long been misunderstood. As a stakeholder you have the ability to add or remove rewards from a post using what is currently represented on the UI as a Flag.
My vote is YES, please change the icon on the UI to a downvote button near the upvote.
Please make it look like the upvote only RED and pointing down.
On first use present a text box with a checkbox to not show it again...
The text should say, "Downvotes Remove Rewards from the Author, Are you sure?" (maybe present the amount would be reduced.)
Please do not add complexity to the training process regarding flags vs. downvotes by keeping both items and trying to explain different use cases. New users will not understand they will use them incorrectly and start problems for no reason and without any gains.
Please do not confuse the difference between UI and code. If large stakeholders are being abusive to end users that has nothing to do with the Interface. (notice I said "If")
Keep it easy and do not add "Cognitive Load" to the new users. (yes, I hate myself for using those words, but I hope they will be understood)
The goal of every Interface change should be to reduce Training Points, not increase them.
I know a lot of you who understand the system have nifty ideas on how to use this feature, but our primary concern should be NEW USERS because that is who we need! They don't understand the economic structure and should not be presented with difficult choices.
Here is the link to go weigh in.
https://steemit.com/poll/@steemitblog/poll-flags-or-downvotes
That's all,
I like it.
People are missing the point when it comes to flag/downvotes, and I think that just reinforces your point even more.
Do you think it is undervalued? vote it. Do you think it is overvalued? Downvote it. Simple as that. Are we a faucet? Or are we actually trying to properly evaluate things and have proper comparisons of value? (Yeah, it appears not many think this way)
This, 100% this. Most comments I’ve seen don’t seem to grasp this at all.
its not about value though, downvotes will be used as tools to disagree with opinion because the whole perception of their usage will change with the design.
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Which is also the right of the stakeholder. While I wish they wouldn't it is them utilizing their stake and it already happens which is confusing when the UI makes it seem like it shouldn't.
So everyone on Steem uses downvote if they disagree with something people post cos its now a simple opposite to agreeing....the biggest 'stakeholders' whether worthy being so or not
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Whether it’s a flag or downvote button is not going to change this, the discussion is solely UI.
As far as the culture of current downvotes - If a large stakeholder is using downvotes unjustly, then many times in the past the community has stepped forward to counter.
If the community agrees with the initial downvote or possibly the fact that it has turned into some sort of childish fight on both sides, they most likely will not.
Which is why I feel normalizing downvotes and changing the culture is the only way to fix this.. what it appears like on the UI just makes it easier to understand, it will not change the underlying issues you are mentioning though.
Oh boy , opening up a can of worms at Dtube lol. As sometimes there can definitely be some way overvalued video Posts there. Just trash, getting BIG payouts
I actually really like this and after discussing this in chat, I am not even sure we should warn on the downvote.
No one wants to say this fact:
Upvote it- you get 25% rewards.
Downvote it- you get 0.
For most people that's important. That's why there are not many flagging now.
Yup, this is also true.
(Although need classification on the 25% figure. I know what you mean though)
Side-by-side upvote/downvote buttons have a simplistic elegance. It also starts to shift the idea away from 'flagging' (does somebody review it? is it going to be censored) toward an action that establishes reward consensus for the post... which is what upvotes/downvotes actually are.
Even experienced Steemians sometimes forget that upvotes/downvotes are just a protocol mechanism to establish consensus on the distribution of the reward pool. They're not a tool for censorship, oppression, etc. Being downvoted doesn't mean anything except that somebody thinks your rewards were too high.
I gave you an upvote. If somebody thinks you're getting too much, they're probably wrong, but they can downvote to express their disagreement.
I don't like the functionality at all. At its best it is a feature that punishes controversial discussions. At worst, it is a tool for haves to bully the have nots. I understand the motivation but I believe there are large unintended consequences if we aren't careful.
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Well as a stakeholder I think it is extremely important we have the ability to fight abuse. We just have to teach people it is normal to receive flags.
If we have large stakeholders abusing their power that is a different issue which has nothing to do with the UI design.
The same tool that can fight abuse can lead to abuse. In my time using Steem I've received several dollars in down votes for expressing unpopular opinions.
Down votes are supposed to counter abuse. Despite having this feature, certain individuals earn the largest shares of the rewards pool by making several posts a day containing absolutely zero text. Why do I not mention them by name? I'm concerned about getting singled out by their followers, as I have been in the past.
Right now, the rich abuse the system with impunity because they can down vote you harder than you can down vote them.
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Changing the blockchain rules is not being discussed. We are discussing how to best communicate how the blockchain works via an Interface.
Alright then. The best idea is to remove it entirely from the UI. It's not like steemit hasn't done that before.
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I hear your opinion and I get it, but I couldn't disagree more. :)
Said with complete respect.
Agree to disagree, then!
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that sounds very fair.
Have you ever read the white paper? Not being snarky. I just can't imagine thinking the site could function and distribute rewards without also having the ability to cancel out those rewards.
Youre mixing up abuse and opinion which is ecactly the problem this change will exacerbate.
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The most sensible comment of all. THIS is exactly what will happen
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@whatsup,
While we (STEEMIT and it's INC) have a lot to do, WTH they brought up this old topic? For me this is better, flag is a flag, upvote is upvote! Better you call a DRAMA token on their post lol :D
Cheers~
I mostly agree with this but I would bring up two points. 1) There's probably no reason to tell the user that downvoting will remove rewards any more than there is a reason to tell them that upvoting will add rewards. Some people already think that flagging them amounts to stealing and this would probably just reinforce that perception. 2) Changing the flag to a downvote will probably result in more people downvoting opinions they disagree with (regardless of whether there is a pop-up telling them about rewards)...or maybe not as there seems to be a lot of that already.
At the end of the day though, having a downvote instead of a flag in the way that you describe would be far more consistent.
Remember we are not talking about changing the under lying blockchain code. Simply the user interface. It is important that the user interface just displays what is going to happen in the simplest terms possible. The whole reason for an Interface is not having to work with and understand the code.
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My vote was "No" due to Flag Wars sounding so much more better than Downvote Wars. 😎
!dramatoken
I love the attitude.
Such drama, you've earned a DRAMA!
To view or trade
DRAMAgo to steem-engine.com.I guess it's okay...for now...I might change my mind at a later date if people start 'gang attacks' against people they just don't agree with to cause harm.
Wimpy Bullies who hide behind the cloak of Cyber-Space really suck...IMHO
I agree! Just starting my post...
Freedom means tolerance for assholes.
Hmmnnnnnnn... I'll have to read that one, once you post it; well...I guess I'll have to 'wait' till you 'post' it, unless my Supernatural powers kick in...???
Please could you share a non expired link to sanesteemchat?
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https://discord.gg/BnJsQW
Yep. Up- and downvoting will be better known by new users from other applications, so training should be rather easy. It's also more intuitive that this is the "counter action" to adding rewards to a post through an upvote.
Sure, temporarily new users might get in the way of larger stakes who will hate-downvote them, but:
Obviously, there will still be people who won't get it. But what can you do...
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Always simplify the utility of a new change.
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