Gridcoin Community Hangout #022 - 21th Jan 2017 @ 9PM GMT (RSVP & Suggest topics!)

9 months ago


logo

Gridcoin Community Hangout #022

A massive shout out to the BeyondBitcoin community & @officialfuzzy for providing the Gridcoin community a room in their mumble server for free.

Another massive thanks to @peppernrino for editing the hangout recordings! Follow him on Steem! :D

What is Gridcoin?

Gridcoin securely rewards BOINC computation on top of Proof of Stake. Reward allocation is distributed, not centralized unlike other distributed computing related cryptocurrencies.

More info: https://steemit.com/beyondbitcoin/@cm-steem/gridcoin-securely-rewarding-boinc-computation-on-top-of-pos/

Where can I listen to past hangouts?

SoundcloudYouTubeMixCloudCryptocointalk

Past episode details

021 RSVP & Topic suggestion thread

Why are we holding these hangouts?

  • A mumble conference call can provide significant advantages over communicating via forums and IRC.
  • To create opportunities to inform the public of new Gridcoin, BOINC and related services & their development progress.
  • To bridge relations between the cryptocurrency & BOINC communities.

How long will the hangout last?

If there are not many topics suggested then hangouts won't last longer than an hour, on the other hand if there are many topic suggested then the hangout may last 2-3 hours!

When the Gridcoin Community Hangouts start really picking up traction we can become more strict with allocated speaking time if need be (so you're not waiting hours to talk).

Want to suggest a topic to discuss?

Reply with your suggestions in this Steem post & order of discussion will be from highest to lowest voted suggestions.

Can we discuss anything?

It's advisable to stay generally on topic, attendees are distributed around the world so they may not (likely won't) share the same views regarding controversial topics not related to Gridcoin/BOINC/Cryptocurrency.

That said, this 'on topic' guideline fizzles away once official recording has ended & the hangout becomes a more relaxed environment.

Proposed time for Gridcoin Hangout #021:

9PM GMT 21th Jan 2017.

Compare 9PM GMT to your time zone!.

How to join the Gridcoin hangout

Step 1: Download Mumble. [Windows Client, Android Client]

Step 2:

Step 3: Configure Mumble & join the server!

Label: BeyondBitcoin - Gridcoin
Address: mumble.beyondbitcoinshow.com
Port: 64738
Username: Enter your username
Password: w0rldCh@NG3rsUN!t3

Step 4: Join the Gridcoin channel!

Step 5: Configure your audio wizard & setup Push-To-Talk. Join 10-15 mins before the hangout starts to test your audio configuration.

I hope you decide to attend the hangout - everyone is welcome to join, especially those who suggest topics of discussion in this thread.

Best regards,
CM.


Gridcoin banner

Authors get paid when people like you upvote their post.
If you enjoyed what you read here, create your account today and start earning FREE STEEM!
Sort Order:  trending

Decentralized Exchanges!

Applied:

Lykke: https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/51655-lykke-exchange/

We should apply to:

https://cosmos.network/
https://interledger.org/ (Hangouts: https://soundcloud.com/user-878991006 )
http://heatledger.com/ (CCEDK associated)
https://komodoplatform.com/dex-whitepaper/ (Just a whitepaper for now? SuperNet's EasyDEX)
https://www.instantdex.org/2016/09/28/forum-disabled-easydex-soon/ (InstantDEX vs EasyDEX vs Iguana?)
https://bcexchange.org/ ( Unsure of validity, but they mention the addition of altcoins).
https://etherex.org/ (Site down!)
https://wavesplatform.com/ (If we partnered with one of their gateways then GRC may be traded with tokens on their platform, low likelihood though).

Any more anyone knows of?

Some of these platforms could result in whales moving into GRC from major alts.

·

Speaking of decentralized exchanges, I have begun customizing the Bitshares web wallet for Gridcoin; the customization set OPEN.GRC as the main trading pair with a large quantity of popular assets as well as FIAT smartcoins (USD, CNY, GBP, etc).

https://steemit.com/gridcoin/@cm-steem/gridcoin-s-customised-bitshares-web-wallet-dex

I need to uplift the repo to the latest bitshares gui release then will try adding new drop-down menus to the navigation bar (links to GRC, BOINC, BTS websites).

The potential of adding or raising bounties to fund projects. Also to think about different projects to potentially fund bounties for. I think that since there has been another faucet site that got foundation funds then there could also be a portion of some raised funds donated to bounties. We could discuss maybe putting this towards a vote for finding interest before actually specific bounty funding of a project, example given, open source mining pool.

·

task: "POOL: open sourcing it" https://github.com/Erkan-Yilmaz/Gridcoin-tasks/issues/2

there is now a 40k GRC bounty for this task:
https://steemit.com/gridcoin/@erkan/get-bounties-for-helping-team-gridcoin

and $50 (or $100) for PoSv3

·

The faucet received funds to be distributed to users, not to fund the website itself.

https://github.com/gridcoin/Gridcoin-Research/issues/184 This issue details a large git commit backlog of similar crypto code bases, a large amount of development bounties likely need assigned to its tasks.

The open source mining pool should have a bounty, sure, but thus far no planning has gone into the project. Katiee isn't likely to open source her pool neither.

Ideally we would wait until GRC was worth more before setting massive bounties, but we've got to start somewhere, eh?


Balance

POS vs DPOR stake weight balance?

This was brought back up in the following Gridcoin GitHub issue: https://github.com/gridcoin/Gridcoin-Research/issues/106

When considering how to improve total participating stake weight, we should evaluate the POS:DPOR stake weight balance (huppdiwupp's posts are worth reading) : https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/49141-dpor-stake-weight-calculations/

Link to hupdiwup's initial (not final proposal) post & following quote:

"If you have a low magnitude the probability to stake would be greater if you just ran an investor wallet. If you have a high magnitude the probability to stake is greater than running an investor node.
This was a little bit of a surprise to me. I thought that you would always have at least the probability to stake of an investor and the work you do for boinc crunching increases this probability. So that despite the imapct of "owed" the ratio between investor and cruncher would be constant, given a magnitude."

Proposal 1 conclusion:

"Now, if you are owed nothing the probability to stake is the same as if you were an investor. If owed is positive your probability goes up, if owed is negative it goes down. The impact of the variable owed is dependent on your magnitude, so it boosts small magnitude nodes more than large magnitude nodes.
The problem with this is that you could create a lot of gridcoin+boinc nodes with a small magnitude, close the wallets and then build up probability.

The way it currently works you can also build up probability by crunching with the wallet closed. But since small magnitudes and small balances are being penalized it is more expensive. This is at the cost of newbies not staking blocks or having a newbie boost.

This is basically the same problem as with PoSv1 vs PoSv2, whether to use coinage or coin. So maybe we should eliminate the owed-variable from the equation."

Proposal 2 conclusion::

"The advantage of this would be that you cannot build up probability to stake. Regardless how long your wallet has been offline or what you are "owed" the probability stays the same.

But this would come down to the same discussion we had with the vote weight. What should the ratio between magnitude and balance be.
If ideally all coins would stake all the time it would be no problem if the weight was equal (p=1). But if only 20% of the total coin supply stake at one time it could be too much.

I don't know if the total coin supply is easily accessible. If it is not it could be set as a constant but then the importance of Magnitude would slowly decay as more coins are created.

If there is a way to determin how many coins stake at a single time, we could use that metric instead of total coin supply. This would mean that you would have to have 51% coins staking plus 51% magnitude staking for an attack at any point in time.


Gridcoin banner

·

Conclusions from a 48 hour data logging experiment on my pi node regarding network weight over time.

·
·

156/385 = 40.52% of coins staking.

This does not take into account the stakeweight generated by DPOR, however as discussed in this cryptocointalk thread the mechanism is not 100% understood (potentially unbalanced?)

Task: Create DPOR whitepaper
https://github.com/Erkan-Yilmaz/Gridcoin-tasks/issues/3

Perhaps low stake weight is caused by apathy towards staking, cold storage and users storing their coins on centralized exchanges?

Methods of encouraging staking participation:

  • POSv3 route of fixed POS rewards & no interest gained when offline.
  • Encouraging the use of decentralized exchanges & recommending keeping coins on centralized exchanges at a minimum.

Methods of improving staking:

  • Potentially exploring rebalancing POS:DPOR via @skcin's proposals (or new proposals discussed in the cryptocointalk thread).
  • Perhaps creating a monthly lottery (external payment/rain (sendmany) script) where by having staked a block is en entry into a lottery to win x GRC? We could take the addresses were used to stake as the reward address.

Any other ideas, people?


https://github.com/gridcoin/Gridcoin-Research/issues/106#issuecomment-274279488

I want to raise a concern about the age of open pull requests on github.

I know that reviewing code takes a lot of time but it would be nice if more people could have the power to review and accept pull requests. As a developer it's discouraging to make a fix and submit a PR when you know it might take weeks or months before anything happens, and in the meantime you have to maintain the change to avoid conflicts.

This is especially important when the PR is denied (for whatever reasons).

·

Additional github administration rights being distributed could probably improve this process.

·
·

see task: "get additional github administration rights for bugtracker"

https://github.com/Erkan-Yilmaz/Gridcoin-tasks/issues/41

·

i dunno... i've recently seen more community pulls accepted than ever. keep up the good work, ravonn!

·
·

Community pulls on my/erkan/other repos, yes. On the official gridcoin-research repo, no.

Continuing to attempt to get ShapeShift to integrate Gridcoin.

Please like/retweet: https://twitter.com/customminer/status/818108371127730176

·

Despite Coinami's help, the continued response from ShapeShift is that Gridcoin is on a 'discovery list' and that they are not looking to add further coins in 2017, how disappointing.

Here's hoping coinvert can show up shapeshift.

Edit: I sent an email off to coinvert querying the addition of Gridcoin to their service.

·

i also sent shapeshift a letter, i got one back and i thought it was promising... turns out it's the same letter everybody gets. :P

·

customminer CM tweeted @ 08 Jan 2017 - 14:53 UTC

@ShapeShift_io @CoinomiWallet Gridcoin is supported by Coinomi but not Shapeshift, would massively appreciate integration! @GridcoinNetwork

Disclaimer: I am just a bot trying to be helpful.

Proposed change to the hangout format: We will hold 5min bio-breaks every hour; it's not healthy to sit for 4 hours straight (hangouts usually only last 2-3 hrs but has lasted 4-5 hours before).

·

This, this, this. Cannot agree more with this change in how we do the hangouts. Except, maybe instead of every hour we could see how people feel 15 mins before the end of every hour or so. 5 mins should definitely be enough time to get up, stretch, use the bathroom, grab a drink, etc.

·
·

I like that idea, rather than going for an hour full on.

the DrugDiscovery admin will join this mumble session

·

DrugDiscovery has been added to the whitelist. Still no workunits. SSL not working in the scheduler.

·
·

Work units are now available:

Posted: 17 Jan 2017, 14:04:16 UTC

Since yesterday we have loads of work on server for vina application (Linux 64bit and Windows 32bit).
This is internal research batch of WU (non-commercial).

As soon as possible we will also release Gromacs application for Linux CPU and CUDA cards.

Both applications are Open Source:

AutoDock Vina:
http://vina.scripps.edu/

Gromacs:
http://www.gromacs.org/

Cryptocointalk thread

DD@H forum notice

Working towards open-sourcing the Gridcoin website for future collaborative/distributed development.

·

Sounds good. Maybe it is also a good idea to move content that changes frequently to the wiki. The whitelist for example. Then the focus of the website could be to provide a simple and informative overview of the coin and link to the wiki for the more in depth knowledge.

I also noticed that some coins have an official blog on their website. I think that could be nice for posting important stuff like announcing project additions or removals. Or mandatory upgrades.

·
·

Yeah, sounds like a good idea re:wiki-link.

Perhaps we could do a blog, but I don't have the ability to install additional software on the gridcoin server, it would have to be either external or static.

In the mean time, I've open-sourced the gridcoin website (Sans paid kit): https://github.com/grctest/Gridcoin-Site

·
·
·

Cool! I think a static page would do fine since there are not that many posts if the focus is on the important stuff. Or it could be like a monthly summary of whats going on in the gridcoin space. I believe there is also less overhead with a static page.

·
·
·
·

gridcoinstats.eu has steemit integration and also pulls boinc news notices, this is a pretty good source of news in the mean time.

Getting Gridcoin added to coinpayments.net

·

Erkan and i worked on a form letter yesterday that we can basically copy-paste to all the vendors on coinpayments.net. :)

·
·

Alright, action stations everyone!

We've got to get places to accept GRC via coinpayments.net !

We should reach out to BOINC projects, asking them to add a donate button (or one of those 'one-name' things) to their website so that we can easily donate GRC to them.

We should reach out to every store within the store directory, asking them to accept Gridcoin: https://www.coinpayments.net/store-directory

·

I have paid the $700 for integration into coinpayments.net https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/50486-should-we-get-gridcoin-integrated-into-coinpaymentsnet/#entry231217

We will likely have to pay $100/month for continued support unless we can maintain more than $5000/month transaction volume on coinpayments (we have to get services to add Gridcoin as options, and users have to start spending their GRC haha!).

·
·

I really think this should be one of the main targets. The quam, the Avalon of all the crypto coins: Usability.
I think Gridcoin is great in the way it generates and stabilizes, how it creates a solid miner/holder/verifier net, but i think we need to make this fine group of gentlement to spend their GRCs other than simply hodl or echange for BTCs. Is there any initiative going on currently? thx

·
·
·

I've paid for the integration to take place, so we'll be added to coinpayments.net soon!

We'll need to contact shops that currently use coinpayments (there's a handy store directory on their site) to accept Gridcoin once it's integrated.

We should also try to get each whitelisted BOINC project to add a GRC donate button which uses coinpayments. That'll help with meeting the min trading volume.

·


Gridcoin CoinPayments

Gridcoin has been integrated into CoinPayments.Net!

You can now accept Gridcoin on your website via the following 22 website plugins:

This is an excellent development for Gridcoin & will allow for BOINC projects to easily accept Gridcoin for payment/donations in the future! Here's to a prosperous 2017! Huzzah!


Gridcoin banner

·

I think political polls are pretty much superfluous and can even harm our USP: crunch for science, support science, it's for the good of the humanity etc. Sure, political stuff can be intriguing for some people, but many BOINCers investigating Gridcoin will simply think 'WTF' when they see such stuff and leave. Ultimately, you cannot be attractive to everyone and such attempts are usually not realistic.

This is compounded by the fact that such polls are based on mag+balance voting power, so some people might even think that Gridcoin whales are trying to push some political agenda here (because users with plenty of GRC and/or high magnitude can easily tilt the poll).

·
·

Not to mention: WTF has the hack to do with Gridcoin, why should it be of any interest for anyone, esp. outside the US (which is btw. the vast majority of people on this planet)?

Keep non-blockchain and non-BOINC politics out of Gridcoin.
Says someone who has run as candidate in the past.

·
·
·

No need to get angry, there's really nothing anyone can do to prevent a user from creating a poll within the gridcoin client (decentralized), so any poll we have regarding what types of polls are allowed will ultimately be up to the discretion of the poll creator.

The topic is a world political issue not just US, and we've got to get users voting in the first place so eye catching polls will hopefully grab their attention. The hack topic is a world political issue, not just an American issue.

This is now the 22nd 30-45minute current events/updates/news and 1.5-2hr " think tank " session. Originally I suggested someone track and post minutes like as if we were the boy scouts or a cohesive team or club or something all organized. But was made fun of , and someone said " ya like someone is going to sit and note that stuff " . But that was in error. For example nobody is going to remember " oh yeah if i go back to the 2nd mumble , Caraka was asking for help from others to test the Gridcoin source on other platforms/architectures as its not tested when ported via cygwin. I do because it had interest to me. Everybody remembers what is important and relevant to them at the time.. Latter ideas , fixes , help voiced in the chat is lost that could help people. It's just turning into past hours of great stuff that could positively expand the growth of Gridcoin and the Gridcoin community and user base getting lost in time. Maybe it needs to be gone threw and a general Index and future kept up? Just an idea , or something to discuss tracking and index past info so it doesn't get lost or things and can be referenced my newcomers. Additionally , I saw your comment per no grey list on the road map so I question how much of the time spent in the mumbles now some 44-66hr+ or 120hr+ raw unedited with after the hangouts actually gets back to Rob as I doubt he downloads the latest and goes for a jog on Sunday mornings while he listens to the mumble sessions.

·

If anyone's listening to past hangouts, and an ambiguous task is discussed (ie "It'd be cool if simple task x was performed") and no one has performed the task yet, then it could be performed by the listener.

Erkan has been working on partially transcribing the hangouts 1-15, including keeping a list of tasks in the future. Everyone can help the transcription/tracking of tasks from the hangout audio, not just erkan now.

https://steemit.com/gridcoin/@erkan/gridcoin-hangouts-minutes-and-tasks
https://github.com/Erkan-Yilmaz/Gridcoin-hangout-minutes
https://github.com/Erkan-Yilmaz/Gridcoin-tasks

I'd hope that Rob has listened to at least one hangout thus far, lol.

EDIT: Hit the return key every once in a while :P

·

i have been tracking the minutes since we decided to do that. i have #16, #17, #18, #20, and #21 done for minutes so far. i plan to go through the earlier ones once i'm done the backlog of editing, and i think customminer is adding the time markers to the soundcloud. gratis versus libre.

if you feel like going through the first 15, that would be cool. but just like, saying someone should do it isn't really helping. :P

·
·

see "Gridcoin hangout minutes" (with time markers) and "Gridcoin tasks"

https://steemit.com/gridcoin/@erkan/gridcoin-hangouts-minutes-and-tasks

i would like to talk about the possibility of vortac and startail having a weird amount of power right now...

need receipts for google ads. also, he is surely making affiliate sales, no? can we not set up an affiliate program in Gridcoin's name? also also, we are giving him Gridcoin for the expense... if he pays out of pocket, he is creating a buy structure for himself. you wouldn't just sell him a few million GRC, but you'd surely give it for a voted expense. and if all the "new" accounts gained by the doubled adshare is being timed with the bots being prepared with CPIDs... and if they were working together... no one could say boo. this is a serious problem. look at how easy irpg was to manipulate. there's still fake users in there. all of them had BOINC accounts. a bunch of shared CPUs... but how am i supposed to prove that? i'd be concerned to know what checks are enabled on the faucet site, seeing as my VPN was blocked, and i'm a legitimate person, what are the stipulations?

also, the faucet. 20K is pretty steep, considering it will be drained by 1000 fake accounts in a day. 20 GRC a pop is insane. how many do you need to start a wallet? 1.1? also choked that there isn't a "more than" option in the RAC... i can't help but feel like that's a slap in the face to the "abstain" vote over irpg... but whatever... i'm crazy, right?

am i the only one who can see a concerted effort to drain the foundation, and perform a 51% attack?

all this talk of POSv3 too... from people that can't claim to hack through html... but you know C today? ok.

·

RE: Manipulating google ad traffic -> not likely, google'd detect this.
RE: Buy structure -> Yeah possibly, but then so is every other foundation expense, I paid for the coinpayments integration and got GRC in return.
RE: Affiliate program - GRC isn't a company, we don't have the ability to track who referred a user to BOINC and google have put a lot of research into preventing ad abuse - making our own affiliate system would be a nightmare.
RE: Foundation drainage - I don't see the correlation and there aren't enough coins in the foundation to perform a 51% attack with.
RE: Faucet manipulation - there's a lot of security checks that have been added, combined with brainstorming the correct parameters for bonus grc for new CPIDS: https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/51989-poll-research-bounty-reward-at-gridcoinstats-faucet/ I don't think it's worth worrying about 20k GRC in a heavily secured faucet.
RE: POSv3 - What's your point, that only Rob should have an opinion on GRC's staking mechanisms?

·
  1. I've decided not to vote on AdWords campaign (since I am running it), nor on startail's faucet expense (since I proposed it initially). Both efforts will have more credibility that way.

  2. As I have said before, if a trusted community member wants to check the AdWords account I set up for Gridcoin, just drop me a PM and I'll provide the login details. I believe CM has checked it out already. Rob also has the login details, but I don't think he has enough time to audit it properly. Community will understand that I don't want anyone snooping over my credit card details there.

  3. If anyone else wants to run AdWords (and pay for it), I would certainly be glad to let him take over. I have lost plenty of money on this, since I am refunded in GRC and its price has mostly declined last year. It's a pretty bad idea to build up your GRC stake through Foundation expenses, buying it on Poloniex has been much more affordable so far (just set your bids low and wait).

  4. We've heard plenty of we could, we should, might we, can we not etc. Well, having some skills in Photoshop, in April 2016. I decided to take the initiative and to create the AdWords account for Gridcoin (and pay for it). I think our advertising efforts before that were managed by CM and I believe no member with programming or web-development skills should waste his time on creating flashy banners and moving pixels in Photoshop.

  5. I'll try to participate in tomorrow's hangout, to address any further concerns.

·
·
  1. good.
  2. time to audit it properly.
  3. my point was you are creating buys for yourself that normally wouldn't exist. you also avoid exchange fees by not having to purchase through poloniex. odd you didn't address my concerns about a 51% attack.
  4. who are you to say what i waste my time on? lol
  5. see you there! :D
·
·
·

I received 211 813 GRC from the Foundation so far, in exchange for our AdWords expenses. Since Poloniex fee is 0.15% for bidders, I saved 317 GRC on Poloniex fees (or 1.73 USD). A rather negligible amount, compared to the losses I've taken because the value of GRC has decreased in 2016.

Since it's well known we have spent 5 USD per day on AdWords last year, you could have done the math too, it's not that hard. I won't address your concerns about a 51% attack because that's plain FUD.

·
·
·
·

Bitcoin is basically the rising tide over the price of most-everything in this economy, currently. That's primarily why we've been seeing such a price decrease in the value. Coinpayments is a huge step in the right direction because of how it doesn't tie the price of Gridcoin to Bitcoin anymore, and having the website come into fruition at the same time is another great involvement. Can never be too careful about transparency throughout this process and I (for what it's worth, which may not be much) appreciate your transparency among the good work done to bring the site up. I just hope that some future issues could be resolved, such as the possible exploits/vector of attack on the faucet or lack of SSL/https.

More BOINC challenges!

I'll update this post when the current challenges end (can only have 3 upcoming challenges on boincstats at a time).

·
·
·

Since about 2 days, team Gridcoin is participating in 4 challenges at same time.
If it stays like this we will have finished in total 15 challenges in January.

go TEAM Gridcoin :-)

https://steemit.com/gridcoin/@erkan/help-team-gridcoin-in-the-january-2017-challenges

·
·
·

new challenge type:

across ALL WHITELISTED BOINC projects at the same time

https://github.com/Erkan-Yilmaz/Gridcoin-tasks/issues/7

·
·

Another challenge: http://boincstats.com/en/stats/challenge/team/chat/860

I created a vLHC challenge, but turns out the project is retiring!