The Goverment Is A Reputation System On SteroidssteemCreated with Sketch.

in #anarchy8 years ago (edited)

If you are discussing anarchy or voluntaryism at some point you will come across concepts like N.A.P(Non-Aggression Principle), decentralisation and free-association all reflected in a form of a reputation system. The polar opposite of these libertarian ideas is usually the “bad” government that somehow forces you to do stuff in a centralised and aggressive way. Is the goverment though so different than the idealised reputation system?
 

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A government is nothing more than a group of people that got together and decided how their lives will be played out. In order to do that, they agreed upon a form of capital that is divisible in financial, social and intellectual rewards. Every citizen has a reputation system that is measured through their bank account, job, accomplishments and community involvement. It doesn’t have a specific reputation number like Steemit but it has budges like “jail sentence”, “fired from x job”, or “graduated from x school”.

Every system that has been proposed up to this day is no different than a central government. For the sake of example let’s take Steemit. Instead of corporations we have whales. Instead of congressmen we have witnesses. Instead of punishment by social isolation or jail we have flagging that also results in social isolation. The powerful guys up top will most likely always remain powerful since they got early in the game much like the Rothschilds, Lloyds and other famous families. The whales' children will be upvoted and also remain high up the ladder even if they join Steemit in the year 2030 while a nobody strives from this time to make pennies. Much like the outside world the vast majorioty, the smaller guys, will strive to climb up the ladder with little to no success. The architecture, the backbone of the reputation system and early adaptation ensures this.

Have you ever wondered why lately so many governments want to incorporate the blockchain into their system? USA, Switzerland, Sweden, Japan, Estonia—to mention a few, all move towards decentralised operations. One would think that a decentralised system would scare goverments away but they seem to embrace it much like a crack whore embraces meth. The blockchain is rather an extension of a government's philosophy. The “decentralised” part doesn’t really apply to the guys who control it. Rather it only reflects the fashion minions are being controlled. There are people who control offices in the government and there are people who control the blockchain. Much like governments change the rules to suit some players, same thing happens with the blockchain. In the blockchain we call them hard forks and in the goverment “necessary legislation so the system can hold up”. Who decides? But of course those who hold the power and money. In both cases, if you don’t like it, you can leave. In both cases the masses don’t want to get bothered and just obey the rules of those in the top.

Governments today wage wars or demand taxes if you want to be part of their community. Who is to say that in the future this won’t be a problem of blockchain communities like Steemit? Some communities can just clone Steemit, make it their own version, and start functioning with tax algorithms or even start attacking other networks, burning servers rooms and killing developers in order to protect their own version of the blockchain/ethics. Today much of war is cyberterrorism and really is coercive no matter how one wants to repackage it. Imagine if there are Muslim versions of Steemit going against Christian ones. Really, not much difference with the “states” today. How really does one define "coercion"?
 


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There is nothing inherently violent in a government much like there is nothing inherently violent in a blockchain. When we see anarchists retaliating against alternative propositions to the government (like Steemit), it is because they see the obvious flaws. They can see the same pattern occurring again and the only difference is that the benefactors are not congressmen but nerds like them trying to profit much like the ones currently in power. A look at most alt-coins reveals this. Early adopters shill anything to the death waiting for the bait to cling.

Consider how low reputation folk will be treated in the future where a social media system like Steemit becomes larger than Facebook. Consider how one can be thrown to the side of society by being downvoted completely just because he doesn’t kiss higher ass—or because he goes contra to the current system. Isn’t this the same thing that happens today with anarchists opposing the government? Weren’t the founders of the United Sates of America anarchists, outcasts that ended up creating their own system in an attempt to escape Britain’s rule?

Are we doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again?

I am all in support for new solutions that support a system that sets people free. So far though everything that has been proposed is nothing more than what we have, repackaged in order to fit the technological shift rather than bring something new to the table.

What we perceive as “freedom” and “coercion” is massively subjective. In ancient Egypt punishment came in the form of slavery. Later on, slaves acquired rights and “belonged” to a master that ought to treat them well since they were his property. The slaves had food, water and shelter and they were considered lucky in respect to some others who were getting killed. In a more civilised matter today we have jails. Jails are not necessarily violent but in essence one gets isolated into a place with other like minded individuals who express deviant behaviour. A reputation system can isolate outcasts much the same, especially when it becomes large enough to power all economic and social activity. What then? We will get an outcast fork of "Steemit Classic"?

A reputation system is nothing more than a form of governance where the users/citizens police each other by bowing to the whales/rulers. Since rewards and punishments come from the ethics of the top guys, everyone is tied up into the scheme. Those who do not abide to the system get excluded in a “non-violent” way. Thing is, isolation and loneliness kill. I won’t post the hundreds of research done of the subject. They are a google away.

There are many ways to be coercive and violent without even lifting a finger. Are we really going to get stuck with a word spelled "goverment" because we decided to interpet it in a way that suits our philosophy? Believing that social exclusion by reputation is a non-violent form of punishment is similar to believing that the operators of drones in the Middle East are not really killers because they are not directly coercing someone. Heck it could be argued that is preferable to die in an instance without pain rather than suffering the slow death of isolation that can come in means of physical and mental deprivation.

Really... In how many ways can a reputation system kill?



[When the roof of your house is leaking, no kind of philosophy can make the water appear as a non-issue. It might require tearing half of the roof down but that doesn't mean you don't like your house. This post was written as a form of constructive criticism so that we can improve Steemit and the way we perceive some anarchic concepts as "solutions". As of today all of my rewards are 100% power up]







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I think this is a great article, but would like to add something that your article missed: competition.

It is very expensive to set up jails, courts, etc. But anyone can start a new church, club, coop, company, or political party. Your reputation may be Trash with the Democrats, but you could be a god among the Republicans.

Since each individual could simultaneously be a member in dozens of communities with a combination of positive and negative reputations no one community has control over an individual.

Each community has a currency, size of the community controls its market value, and its market value impacts its influence. If I have a negative reputation with the Democrats then I may not be able to interact on their platform, but I also don't need to.

The free market will end up creating competition for the best community and the best currency. It would be like opening up a new virtual frontier. If you don't like the current systems, start a new one.

The only problem is when everyone wants to fight over control of an existing system rather than start their own. It is the entitlement feeling. The desire to steel the network effect created by those in power and desiring to have that power for yourself.

Stop thinking in terms of "one system to rule them all" and start thinking in terms of "competition among systems".

Dan hit it on the head. Competition.

When there's no competition and there's no choice to move from one particular governmental structure to another (and I don't buy any argument that says you have to physically change locations to participate in a different structure) then there's a monopoly on the de facto supreme group that is able to band together to form their own rules and regulations within a particular geographical location.

There is nothing wrong with people who want to choose to band together and WITHIN THAT GROUP coerce and take by force, etc. but those principles shouldn't be applied outside of that group or to people who don't want to belong to any group, if there are competing groups trying to vie for the some amount of tribute that they can extort from a smaller segment of the population.

But there is choice to move from one govermental structure to another. For example the Goverment of Argentina is entirely different from the one of Switzerland. In the same way the blockchain of Steemit is different from Ethereum's. I don't understand where you don't see competition in the current market. It is everywhere.

Geographical location is rather irrelevant to most goverments today. You can still be in one country and pay taxes for another. It happens in Europe for example and with every other legisaltion then globalisation becames more apparent.

There is nothing wrong with people who want to choose to band together and WITHIN THAT GROUP coerce and take by force, etc. but those principles shouldn't be applied outside of that group or to people who don't want to belong to any group, if there are competing groups trying to vie for the some amount of tribute that they can extort from a smaller segment of the population.

What "should" or "not should be done" is rather irrelevant. Check the decentralised world. Should the DAO attacker exploit the network because he could? Groups set their own morals. They don't care how they reflect outside their group. This is why goverments fight each other and this is why many proponents of one blockchain might fight with another. We saw a lot of showdowns with Bitcoin vs Ethereum for example.

Again. I don't see how competition is not implemented today. Goverments will still compete with each other even when they implement blockchain protocols. Same applies to social media sites. The blockchain technology or the reputation system doesn't change anything. It merely appears novel for those who haven't examined it from a historical perpective.

It's not a choice if you have to move geographical locations to opt in to a different ruling structure. That choice is an illusion; I simply do not buy that argument.

So there is a difference moving georaphically vs moving digitally? Are we really going to stick on semantics that are as simple as "changing network" or "jumping on a plane?"

I would even argue that the cost/benefit analysis would be greater in a digital network since your reputation is not that transfarable.

If geography is the argument then it is not an argument. it is a preference.

It is very expensive to set up jails, courts, etc. But anyone can start a new church, club, coop, company, or political party. Your reputation may be Trash with the Democrats, but you could be a god among the Republicans.

I think all can be quite expensive to found and maintain. it all depends how they are marketed. Jails for example can be expensive but can generate massive profits, especially when the convincts work for free. As for reputation, so far it has been demonstrated throughout history that it is all about early adopters.

Since each individual could simultaneously be a member in dozens of communities with a combination of positive and negative reputations no one community has control over an individual.

Communities though will have to compete and maintain a set of rules. Eventually all of them will come to follow some specific ones that will exclude the deviant ones. We see the same thing today with Facebook, Twitter and Tumblr all teaming up and agreeing with "hate speech rules". Even if they are in direct competition they inner networkings can handle sacrificing the outcasts that probably have accounts with all of them.

The free market will end up creating competition for the best community and the best currency. It would be like opening up a new virtual frontier. If you don't like the current systems, start a new one.

Which is exactly what most goverments offer right now. We have a planet with many different "markets". You can join any state you want if you follow some rules. The blockchain will only offer more solutions to the competition, it won't change the status-quo.

The only problem is when everyone wants to fight over control of an existing system rather than start their own. It is the entitlement feeling. The desire to steel the network effect created by those in power and desiring to have that power for yourself.

I think that is always the "problem"?For most is an inevitable path that has to be taken. This is how some things evolve and how some others die out.

Stop thinking in terms of "one system to rule them all" and start thinking in terms of "competition among systems".

I was never in favour of "one system to rule them all". If you check the comments below you will see that I answer this very specifically. All systems are good. Every single one. The question always is not of "what system is best" but "how a system is marketed".

All on-line communities seem to start out as, or degenerate into, a nomenklatura on the one side and most of the rest on the other, with a small rest group of oddballs being ostracised, so little competition there, for want of choice; if you vote with your feet, you'll never stop walking. Supposing that the "free market" will solve this is just as much magical thinking as assuming that a God will solve it. In countries, some nomenklatura may be more democratic, benevolent, open, honest, tolerant, etc. than others, but this is usually brought about by internal pressure, be it evolutionary or revolutionary, not by competition between countries. I expect more from criticism from within than from competition from without.

It requires a lot of skills and time to start a new system, though. Speaking plainly, I think people here simply have hope that you can adjust the system you created to make this more rewarding for the effort. Dependency on whale votes for decent rewards sucks. Integration of ads that pays authors long term seems to be the best solution I've read about so far.

Great points.

I think my perspective is that any system you have will be gamed and corrupted by the simple fact that it will involve people.

This is why any system which is devised will have problems and often the problems are the same. Human nature is at the root of it all.

We did not evolve to live in "civilised" society and there will be a constant struggle between the needs of the group and our own personal needs and desires.

This will always lead to some people losing out and others gaining more than what can be considered their fair share.

It happens in nature too.

Evolution does not give a crap about what is fair or what is moral. It just finds what works.

The hope is that we will eventually find something that works and is also fair.

I'm undecided on if this is actually achievable or if we will always be exchanging one form of unfairness for another, - one inequality for another one.

It would naive to assume that Steemit would solve all these issues.

They have always existed and quite possibly always will.

That was my main point. I just don't agree when I see blind positivism shilled without any constructive criticism. We see concepts like NAP, free markets and free association thrown around as "solutions" but really these are nothing but empty words—just to oppose something vague and generic like "the government"—as if those constituents that exist in government don't exist anywhere else.

I wrote the article after I saw Dan's interview with the Dollar Vigilante. TDV sounded like a car salesman shilling an-cap in a very superifical way and Dan didn't criticize his stanc but played along with it to promot Steemit. i did not like that. Ofcourse there are people who are sceptical about steemit. They see the same flaws as the ones they experience now under a goverment. I think most people would appreciate some honesty and that we are trying instead of claiming we have found true solutions.

it is the same as with being with a shitty health insurance plan and some other guy comes with the same plan but with a different name. You won't change the plan simply because you can't afford the hassle for basically getting the same deal that might even prove worse.

As far as I know humanity has always worked this way. Would it even be possible to have a society where it's members can thrive without any sort of reputation system?

You have given me something to think about.

As a proponent of anarchic systems I have thought about this a lot. So far I haven't seen anything. We are bound by our biology to be this way.

The piece was written mainly as an answer to those who advocate reputation systems as alternatives to the goverment. I think their approach is massively naive.

I understand what the main goal of your post is. I am taking alot more from it though. I agree that it is naive to think that reputation systems are better alternatives than those currently in place in modern soceities.

Maybe the whole concept that some systems are better than others is just looking at it in the wrong way.

Exactly. We are making the wrong questions.

All systems are great for some people. Every single system favours a specific minority. The task if to convince the sheeple that yours is the best one on the table.

in other words, marketing.

Isolation does kill and reputation systems are most famous for being used to coerce, nobody wants to throw away that which shows they have worked hard. The problem with most reputation systems is that you don't get to chose the rules by which you play, the accident of the place you were born tends to chose that. In the case of Steemit, for example, I did chose to join knowing the rules, the order, and if I want to leave because the rules changed I can, at least for now.

Blockchains don't have to be voluntary though, I'm sure we will start hearing about the firsts state ran blockchains that are not available for public viewing and are not voluntary here soon. People who join a blockchain will not necessarily do it knowingly. Who knows? Because of the usage of blockchains as means of coercion by certain governments, blockchains may actually have a negative connotation in the future for being associated to being involuntary, despite their potential for voluntarism.

Are you familiar with Dash? I'd love to hear how this model you believe present in all governance fits for this technology.

This is actually one of the best comments I have come across on the issue. Indeedthe blockchain is seen as a godsent from the governments. Many people forget that the blockchain is forever. Governments will implement the blockchain system in everything around us and even expand on those chains with other networks.

Much like the discovery of the knife or the atom the consequences can go both way...both for good and bad.

I am not very familiar with DASH. what about it?

The way Dash is going about their governance, their version of democracy, is by letting investors with a certain amount of unspent funds to vote on the development path. They divide the block reward 45% to the miners, 45% to the masternode owners (the investors I mentioned before), and 10% to development which is distrubuted based on how the node owners vote, the people who have invested most.

In a way it is a reputation system, the amount of resources invested in the technology is used to meassure who could have the technology advancement as their priority because they stand more to lose. The more nodes you own, the more money you've spent, the more interest you have and the more vote you have on development.

I don't know how a node owner reputation, the reputation of their character, could be affected by seeing what they have voted for in the past. But their vote can't be taken so long as they keep the node up, or at least that's the idea.

In Steemit I don't know that your vote can be taken, but your ability to propose a vote can. All that's needed is robots to downvote your posts making them harder to find. In state ran operations, your vote/voice can be taken by putting you in jail. Even societal reputations systems can be messed up, all somebody has to do is start spreading rumors about something related to erratic sexual behavior or stealing and you are pretty much done.

It's incredible. Everything that is said now will be mined with algorithms, with lots of energy and placed on the blockchain accessible to all forever! Verily we are serious! And this information will be used to create a better world, a better government, sorry ... no government, no rules, non-violence?
Thanks! I am what planet?

NAP makes me think of this:


All roads lead to...the ol' ultra-violence. inevitable.

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Hello @kyriacos, if you are interested in new solutions to this kind of ecology, I recomend you to read: The Three Ecologies of Felix Guattari. https://monoskop.org/images/4/44/Guattari_Felix_The_Three_Ecologies.pdf
If you want to read about the path of capitalism and State, it's real face, I also recomend One-dimensional man of Herbert Marcuse.
http://www.marcuse.org/herbert/pubs/64onedim/odmcontents.html
Greets man, well-constructed essay.

Fundamentally, government is force.

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