The Death Of The Bots: Should Steemit Remove Bots?steemCreated with Sketch.

in #steemit7 years ago

I did a post about how people should not spam and the topic of robots came up in the comments. This will be a discussion post. I want to hear your opinions in the comments and please be respectful if you disagree with someone. Unlike spam, bots are an acceptable part of the system, so there is nothing wrong if people have/do use them. Full disclosure, I use them as curating tools and encourage (and appreciate) anyone who adds me to their auto service. But I am not attached to them one way or another. They are a tool. As long as you're honest about it and don't cheat people, it is the smart way to maximize your work. Steemit is a social media site but, with a reward system, it has a job/game aspect to it and you want to work smart and not hard. But do the bots take away from the social aspect of the site and make it too difficult for new users? Let's go over the pros and cons.

PROS

Quality Is Higher When You Know If You Will Be Paid:

Okay I know there are many of you who think it is the opposite, that people who know they will get paid will slack on their posts. And you are not wrong, this will be added in the cons. But there is also the opposite effect. When a user does not know what post, or if a post will make money, that the site is like a lottery, then it becomes difficult to put a lot of effort in their work. This will lead to users making shorter and less quality posts as they feel it is chance that leads to a good payout and not quality.

It Keeps The Site Active:

When a user has a bot set up, this guarantees that they will be upvoting posts even when they are off. Even if they forget about their account or take months off. The people who are getting these upvotes can continue to work and be rewarded even when people are not actively watching their work.

Early Retirement:

I do not make that much form curating but it is starting to build up. But some people are making a lot. Let's say you are making 100 SP a week and we will round the price of steem to a dollar. That is $5,200 a year of passive income. Now lets say you have a lot of SP and are making 1,000 SP a week or the price goes to $10 (a real possibility), you would be making 50k a year. That is a, well paid, full time job.

CONS

This Isn't Social:

The more that bots are used the less people actually read content and comment. It can turn the site into a one-sided network where content is produced and the other users are an audience, not fellow users. If we have no bots people might be more involved when they use the site.

Easy Money:

See, I told you I would add this to the cons. No matter how honest and hardworking you are, when you have the crutch there, even sub-consciously, you might start to slack. There an be a hindrance in motivation and growth when you know you are getting paid no matter what you do.

The Problem For New Users:

Some bots are set up awhile ago and these users have not switched them. I am not taking away anything from anyone and these users getting upvoted are bringing quality to the site. But it is harder for new users, ones who are trying to bring their talents to the site to be seen. If we remove bots and users have to curate personally, it will increase the chances that new users will have their work seen and promoted.

There is also another important point. Maybe bots can't be stopped. This site is very open for its users which comes with big benefits, but it also leads to people using the service as they want. You can get rid of the auto-upvote services but what is to stop people from making their own. If this is the case we need to make them work as fair as we can for everyone and HF19 goes a way towards that.

How do you feel about bots? And again, please be respectful.

Green button or red button?

@whatageek

*my upvotes/rep disclaimer: https://steemit.com/steemit/@whatageek/my-steemit-account-where-i-stand-on-bots-self-votes-and-multiple-account

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I've written at length on the subject, and I'd like to share a couple of points on the debate.

Bots are here to stay because allowing them is part of the security features of the system, i.e. the steem blockchain does not use the usual anti-bot measures because most of them are not applicable and the others would restrict usage in a way that could lead to censorship (real censorship, not flagging 😂). I discussed it in a post here, where I also suggest some makeshift "solutions" (if you think bots are a problem).

Voting bots are basically advantage gamblers, legally gaming the system. Some people see this a problem but another perspective is the one you have cited, as a passive income, or as interest on your Steem investment in the language of the Steem whitepaper.

Not all bots are created equally and this point cannot be stressed enough. I think the majority of bots instances running are simply following accounts and blindly voting for everything. This is not smart, it's incredibly dumb. (not in a value judgement way, but in a rating of intelligence). There are some really smart ones out there but the best are closed source. Bit of a plug here, but I lead the Steem FOSSbot team (it's pretty much just me) and our work focuses on putting smarter stuff in the hands of everyone with open source software.

In sum, I'm for them, but only would support smart bots.

Your upvotes are almost worth a dime now!
I hear ya on the lottery bit. I now know the exact dollar worth of the attention gotten from starting a budget diet, and the general worthlessness of sharing parts of my life. That time of day difference is very, very real right now. Though as we get more international users I think it will mostly vanish.

I know, getting there getting there. Here is an almost-dime for you.

Don't take it personally, you could have written Shakespeare, if it doesn't get seen it doesn't mean it wasn't good. That is true, but new users will need some voting power as well for that to vanish.

All in good time. We just need a good carrier to get the word out across the pond. Korea is taking off with it, and I know Mexico is gaining Steem.
What we need is some Brits. Think we can get Jeremy Clarkson on board a censorship free blogging platform?

I think this site can be really big. I hope it is just beta that is holding us back and once we get the site ready, we will see some strong pushes.

I found it through a YouTube video comment section. If this place could HOST videos I'm pretty sure it could get some of YouTube's best talent.

I think steemQ is being worked on for video.

Once it's running ok there's going to be pushback from Google.

If this platform is going to be successful in any way shape or form bots are going to need to reign supreme. The attention economy will be underpinned with bots to ensure the best content thrives. Those bots will have to be optimized to align with the values of the network. Otherwise the bots will become worthless quickly.

Bots will be how users ensure their favorite creators continue making their content.

A rare perspective 😇 I'd love to hear about this idea in more detail.

Bots will be how users ensure their favorite creators continue making their content.

That's exactly why I run a bot! 🤖 ❤️

I am less certain in the specifics as to how this will truely end up. The 'bots' and automated value transfer systems will allow your 'worthless' random shares and the like to be hosted without you having to be a revenue source directly - adds. There is a lot of underlying work to be done to form what will mature into the attention economy.

when you say that you 'use them as a curating tool' you're actually not being truthful. How can a bot curate? So go ahead..tell me you go back and read what your auto-bots 'curated'....

yeah right.

bot's are vote harvesters...they degrade the Steemit experience and they ENCOURAGE spam...which in turn encourages Flaggin...which in turn encourages people to leave stemmit.

I completely agree

These are all very good points and concerns. I might make a talking video about this to share my thoughts on the importance of curation.

I can't speak much for bots, I can count my time here in days still.
However like any social platform, if you want to build you have to get out of your box and mingle with people.
While I can see the cons of an auto system, especially the set it and forget it.
I don't think it will take away from new users trying to get themselves seen.
As with anything it takes time, and detracts people from posting trash.

I am tiny still have have loads more time before I become relevant, but that doesn't stop me from bring my voice in. It just comes with the incentive to get out there, browse SteemIt myself and meet people.

Just my 2 bits...

Congrats on joining StemIt, I use the bots they helped out the last few months being I was caught up and unable to post anything. But as you pointed out it was all auto voting, it helped build more SP, what little it did do for me. Yet, it also is better like you said to get out of the box, and comment or read and create posts yourself. As a tool though it really does help, before I started using the bots to help vote my curation was <1 SP per week, now I'm closer to 2 Steem a week, so an easy $2 per week on auto pilot not much but over time it will add up and pay off.

Thank you. This community is awesome and so glad I was pointed here by @dollarvigilante.
For that very reason I have been contemplating a bot, as I have already found a handful that put out consistently great quality, and to be able to catch them when they post would be a great thing.

Yeah, there are several great option of bots that can be used.

Oh yeah and I found this site is big with personalities, look at the life tag. Vloggers and real people are doing well here. And great attitude, I hope you find success.

Ideally, I'd prefer if people upvoted content that they actually read and liked. That seems like the most fair and honest way to award people for their time, effort, talent and ideas. However, the bots have been a part of this site much longer than I have, and obviously others are ok with using them, so I accept that it is what it is.

I am a newbie, and personally, with the info I have now, I am against the bots. However, that may change if I would understand how to set up a bot and would begin to make money from it. Still, the purist in me, and maybe a bit of naivety, believes the foundation of what Steemit was based on, humans rewarding humans for their work, would win out in the end, and bots will only defeat the whole meaning of the site.
Instead of the best, most informative, and creative writers being rewarded, it would be the best computer programmers. Nothing personal, computer programmers, but you can make money elsewhere easier than writers and distributors of thoughts, ideas, and concepts.
Again, just the random, rambling thoughts of a newbie!

Hey all thoughts from all users count. If you are interested check out steemvoter.com or streemian. The problem, for new users, is they will not get much in curation until they get SP.

Thanks for the info. With or without bots, I'm stoked to be part of Steemit. I had been complaining to a friend of mine about FB and Youtube and told him someone was going to launch an uncensored medium where thoughts and ideas could be exchanged freely. Little did I know it already existed.

Yep, I was the 'people need to be rewarded for their content' person and here we are.

I think having bots automatically upvote posts is just plain dishonest. I know I've been tempted to upvote things (and at times have) just because there is a chance to make money by doing so. Using bots for this purpose is beyond sleazy.

I am new and just figuring out bots. Will be following this discussion.

Please do, check out steemvoter.com and streemian, you can set people you want to auto-upvote.

I'm playing with autosteem, very similar but browser based only

What I like about Autosteem as it let's me conglomerate who I follow, so I can see what they have posted more easily.

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