Why The "Steemygames" Money Grab by @steemsports / @steemgames Should F*ck Off (Revised)

in #writing8 years ago (edited)

You may have noticed a new form of vote-buying / gambling appear on Steemit in the past week.. Following in the footsteps of @steemsports, the account @steemygames has started up a new highly ridiculious (my opinion) "game" where they pick 2 well known STEEM users and pit them against each other in a popularity contest based on physical appearance.

Here is a short little excerpt from their write up:

"Steemians, we get it, sports aren't for everyone. That's why we are trying our best to engage the whole community, today we're bringing you a new edition of the 'The Steemy Games'. We need you to vote on who you think is 'Steemier'. And, it's not because we are shallow, but because we love to have fun! Let's keep this entertaining and show the world the vibrant and playful community Steemit.com is!"

What sticks out to me in this more so than anything is that this new "game" goes against the very words they speak in the articles.. "It's not because we are shallow" ... Well, last time I checked judging ANYONE on their appearance is basically just as shallow as you can get.

Using STEEM Users Identity Without Permissions..


(REVISED: New evidence has been brought fourth supporting permissions were granted)


Revised Content:

While all of this looked incredibly grim in regards to permissions given by the user featured in the "Steemygames" I've been fortunate enough to be shown some evidence supporting the claim that 100% of the users featured did indeed give permissions for their likelyhood to be used. Below is a screencap shared with me from @walden and @cassandra showing them obtaining permission from Mrs. Steemit to feature her in their games:

This proves (to me anyways) that at least Mrs.Steemit did in fact give permissions for her likeness to be used in the "steemygames". The pictures used were lifted from her Instagram by the folks running the games so it IS in fact feasible that the picture of Mrs.Steemit at 16 was simply saved along side other pictures offered there.

I would like to thank @walden and @cassandra for bringing fourth this evidence of permissions. This solves a decent part of the problem I'd perceived with this style of posting. If you read the original content of this post below you may be able to see how I'd been weary that permissions had been given. I'll leave the original content below for reference, although the factuality of my presumptions are not as concrete as I'd believed given the evidence brought forward above.

Bravo, I hate admitting I was wrong but in this case I very likely was. While asking users permissions does alleviate a large portion of what I viewed as wrong with these @steemgames and @steemsports offering there are still a few points below that I still very much stand behind.


Original Content: (Evidence Above Supports This Bit Below May Very Well Be Wrong)

Another point that sticks out in my mind in regards to this new fangled bullshit "steemygames" is that the author of these posts seemingly hasn't taken into consideration the people featured's feelings nor seemingly gotten permission to use their likeliness in any way shape or form.

Ask yourself this: If someone grabbed a few pictures of you online then without your permission decided to stick you in a competition against some other user in some asinine and childish popularity contest would you be accepting of this?

The persons responsible for the continuation of this immature/needless display of competition and community destabilization really needs to consider a few things here.. Is the money you're making from these posts worth the potential hurt feelings and upset the losing parties may face in this? Do you honestly think it's acceptable to compare people based strictly off of looks alone? If you answered yes to any of these, you're probably an asshole.

Simply put, these steemygames aren't something we should support on the network. Why? Because little to NO consideration has been given to people's feelings nor was permission asked by the perpetrators behind this needless garbage money grab.

The tip off to this shit going on for me was when @mrs.steemit ended up commenting on this post that the picture that @steemsports had used of her likeness was over 4 years old.. Putting her at age 16 or so at the time I believe when the picture was taken...

So @steemsports posted a picture of a 16 year old mrs.steemit and had the community unnknowingly vote on the "hottness" of a minor compared to another woman.. Does anyone else see something wrong with this entire "steemygames" shitshow now?

But Wait! There's More!

(as mentioned above evidence going against this claim above has been brought fourth)


These "Games" Have a Very Real Emotional Price

If you think that these games are all in fun.. I ask you to check out this screencap below, it's a mere taste of the belligerent incoming hatred that these games are capable of spawning:

From one of the original @steemsports posts that started this stupidity:
The Steemy Games: Craig Grant vs Mr Wang


(Names edited because who said this is irrelevant, Clearly there is hurt here because of this childish voting game)

Now in no way am I ostracizing or judging the user who commented this above. It pains me to see one of our own users lash out with hurt feelings caused by assholes who simply put value money and votes over the feelings of others...

What the fuck is wrong with you @steemsports / @steemgames?

I Don't Often Make Ultimatums... But..

This is your one chance to at least mull over the emotional repercussions that your childish games can instill on the users of STEEM you unknowingly victimize. Popularity and beauty contests are for superficial asshats and when you start involving people in them without even so much as asking their permissions you're going to have a bad time. I'll make sure of it.

Smarten up, STEEM is About Building people up, Not Tearing Them Down

Now, you could go on the flip side and say "Well, @KLYE, you asshat, You look like you're ripping into these game hosts pretty hard.. Sorta looks like you're an asshole."

You're right, I am. Call me a hypocrite if you'd like! But sitting on the sidelines and watching my budding STEEM society be de-stabilized by users / groups that frankly don't give a shit about people or consider their feelings isn't something I'll sit on the sidelines and watch.

To the people running these "steemygames" and hurting people's feelings without thought:

This is your very clear message to cease and desist. Frankly I don't give a fuck who you are or how you justify your actions. They are completely childish and unacceptable and if you continue, simply put, I'll have the community turn against you. What you're doing, knowingly or unknowingly, is opening up the door for conflict within our community all stemmed from hurt feelings caused by your inability to act as decent human beings.

As a species we REALLY need to move away from the whole "judging" others and throwing each other underneath the bus in the name of "competition". It's needless at best.

We're all on the same team, we're all attractive and the best in our own way.
Please stop supporting these types of posts folks. It's not about the money.

TL;DR: "Steemygames" is Childish and Breeds Conflict

Please stick to sports guys for your drain on the daily reward pool... :/


Vote @klye for Witness!

https://steemit.com/~witnesses


A Proud STEEMbassador of Canada

Thank you for your votes, the opportunity and support!


Hahaha, Holy Hate-Flags Batman!

I'm honoured some of you feel so strongly as to flag this post! While not exactly the reaction I was going for, your flags show me I've still a long ways to go with my communication and investigative journalism. Admittedly I jumped the gun assuming that @steemsports hadn't gotten permission to use Mrs.Steemit's pictures based off of what I saw in the comments.

However, Those of you actually reading the post and looking past the 1 error in the original piece realize that the other points raised in this article are in fact problematic. While it does come down to a question of morality at the end of the day and peoples morals differ, I still 100% stand behind what's been said in regards to the juvenile nature of these steemygames.

You've every right to flag this post if you don't agree with it. While initially I was upset when this post received flags at the end of the day it simply doesn't matter. I've spoken my peace, corrected the mistakes I made in it and ultimately I hold no ill will against any person or organization mentioned. While I don't agree with what you guys are doing it's your own life to live and morality to forge. Wishing everyone happiness in the future.

Sort:  

I just want to state the following:

  1. I resteemed this because I thought the issue deserved community attention
  2. whether or not the parties involved gave their consent, the voting method is rigged and self-referential. Namely, the outcome depends upon the voting and thus there is no element of chance to it.
  3. If you like these steemians then up vote their content and let the rewards be the judge.
  4. I do not fully endorse the arguments made by klye

Hi Dan, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response:

https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts, it is also important to note that founders need to be very careful when they get involved in the community to express their views, the re-steem of this inflammatory post created a problem for our brand and was unfounded.

When a founder weighs in, it carries emotive weight and can divide a community, so it is important the founder informs himself of all sides of the arguements. At the same time, founder involvement if, positive can drive a community forward, if you look at the example of https://gnosis.pm/, the parent blockchain, Ethereum, founder Vitalik has allowed himself to be positively associated with the project.

https://steemsports.com is a turnkey project you have at your community's disposal right now that can grow into something spectacular to boost the value of Steem, it is up to you if you want to wield it to help make Steem a greater "coin" than Ethereum or not depending on your personal actions going forward.

The element of chance is that the voting is secret, nobody knows what the community will vote in the secret ballot poll, the voting on the comments(bets) is separate Dan.

How is the voting secret? It's all on the blockchain right?

The voting is in an external poll, and the betting is in the comments.
This is explained in the rules of the game:
"Step 1: Open the external poll link and cast your secret ballot!
Step 2: Bet on who the general community thinks is "Steemiest" in the comments below."

Oh, that's interesting. I didn't realize the rules were different from regular steemsports. Thanks for the explanation.

Thank you for weighing in @dantheman

I'm still waiting to see walden's proof of permissions evidence before moving any further with this.

Honestly I hope permissions were sought out here but the whole Mrs. Steemit supplying her own pictures in the comments thing certainly goes against what I would say permissions are. Thanks for the resteem.

I personally have mixed feelings about both steemsports and steemygames. And although I have a lot of respect for smooth and his contributions, I very often disagree with his use of the flag. However, in this case I feel it's 100% appropriate for all of the reasons he listed. This post is so over the top and full of misinformation and false/wild accusations, it's hard to believe. If you disagree with the idea of steemsports or steemygames, there are more responsible and constructive ways to voice your opinion. You've earned a VERY rare flag from me.

Fair enough Tombstone. I respect your flag. It is your vote to cast.

Personally I think smooth is getting hung up on one error I made and seemingly that debunks everything else I said. I can understand some of what he is saying for sure but the fact of the matter is people are being farmed (with permission!) to increase the posters rep / STEEM.. in the form of juvenile beauty pageants. :/

It's secret writer all over again. Simply with a different name.

We discussed this in Steemspeak on discord, and although I agree it is a lame contest, I do know @mrwang wasn't mad, and I did hear Walden asking people he was trying to get involved for permission. I do believe he received permission before doing any of these.
I even questioned the Twins, about risking their reputation by involving themselves with Walden. (because of the way he treats people in steem.chat and on discord. My question didn't make them happy, but I don't think they had any bad intentions. I don't think they misled anyone involved.

I think voting on people based on four pictures, especially in the case where horny sounding comments are made is lame. However, I will say, I don't think anyone involved was just randomly adding pictures of people or had any malice.

I don't know how Mrs.Steem felt about the pictures that were taken from her instagram, but I don't think anyone knew she was 16 at the time of the photo. She did tell them to grab the photos according to a screen shot here.

Per usual, I think having the discussion is a good thing.

Thanks for your feelings on the matter whatsup.

The evidence is pointing to they did get permission to use people's likeness. I've revised my initial post to bring fourth the evidence that they'd given to me. In no way do I want to look for reasons to start chaos nor conflict.

Simply put I was expressing my concern on a matter that bothered me. I'm glad I was wrong for part of it actually.

Regardless though of permissions granted I still think the whole thing is a pile of shit moneygrab with little thought given to those involved in the competitions.

Does Steemit need this sort of shit to thrive? Absofuckinglutely not.

Might be something a teenage crowd would be interested.. But I think for the most part we're all adults on STEEM.. and if we choose to revert back to acting like children and judging people based solely on physical appearance may as well just go fuck around on FB / Twitter.

The society being shaped here won't accept this sort of shit if I've any part of it.. Which I believe I do.

I did have a rant here about how it would be copyright infringement, however it's clear that the facts as presented were not correct. thus I retract my previous statements.

Well, that's not direct release, but close, maybe on future posts you may want to ask specifically for permission to use the images and then include image attribution and copyright information with the post, just to clear up any possible confusion.

Thank you @walden - I'll add this to the post and revise it slightly.

As triddin mentioned above that wouldn't hold up as consent in court but it's a step in the right direction knowing you'd asked first I guess.

As you can see in the screenshot, it wasnt me asking nor selecting the pics.

Aye.. You're cleared by the looks of it walden..!

I like the food idea or cars or something for the games.. Will support those if you ever make em up.. But as for pitting users against eachother I can't get behind that. :/

But if you flag Steemsports for plagarism or copyright infringement berniesanders will nuke ur blog lol isnt Anyx supposed to deal with crap like this... cheeta busy flagging posts that would never get traction anyway lol

Nah, Berniesanders is actually pretty damn reasonable from my dealings with him. I know not everyone feels the same but I've 0 beef with the guy and likely could ask him to stop voting on these personally and see results...

I may do that actually.

lol, goodluck with that

It's done now. You won't see @berniesanders voting on steemsports posts anymore.

Behold the power of communication and community!

Lmao, did you see him flag my comment.

I think he flagged you for not believing he was capable of being decent.. He is.. I know this because I've talked to him and he's always been civil with me.

But fuck I wouldn't put up with people slandering me either to be honest. Calling people corrupt certainly isn't a way to make a mends.

He's got the right and power to flag stuff and he does.. Not sure why folks get upset over people using the site's mechanics to defend themselves or what they want the platform to be.

Ya'll act like whales are above your average person.. lol.

IF you take the power users off their SP pedestals they are humans just like you or I.
Completely capable of being reasoned with and finding understanding.

I agree I just also know the kind of person berniesanders is. Not generalizing all whales. Plus when you think you have all the power it tends to corrupt.

I checked out BS too just because he is the most controversial stake holder here, and klye is right, bern dont support pedophilia, pizzagate, ogoling miners (underage girls being compared sexually to legal sexable creatures). Frankly this is sick. I support free speech, and downvote pedofilia, and steemsports promoting underage sex should be listing in the nsfw because people can get fired for this kind of shit. Steemit is jumping the shark it appears. Why? Because we only have a tiny community and we are addicted to gambling, sex(nsfw), and now pedofilia thanks to our most successful business, steemsports

Yuck

Steem makes it free to communicate and ask other steemians if their likeness can be used. What is their excuse for not asking. I assumed that mrs steemit and ssj both submitted their own photos and were involved in the process and having fun. . I didnt know it was some sick sex fetish. Steem makes it so free and easy to communicate with peers that i assume communication is always being done

Inclined to agree with you that this whole situation is kind of shit.

@berniesanders may not be the most popular power user on the platform but he's never done anything wrong to me and he seems stand up enough in regards to what he feels is right to protect the platform from garbage.

If they did indeed get permission and the users supplied photos and agree'd to be in the competition.. It's still kind of stupid in my opinion. But would be far less crappy than how it looks now.

berniesanders will nuke ur blog lol isnt Anyx supposed to deal with crap like this... cheeta busy flagging posts that would never get traction anyway lol

Like when? Ive flagged accounts that bernie supported before. He flagged me back when i explained my vote in comments (which i thought was shitty and i told him so in chat). and it ended there... hes even upvoted a few of my comments since.

I've never had a problem with the guy really. And if I ever did I'm sure I could talk to him and come to an understanding rather than flag-fucking eachother. lol

every single person in the games gave permission and approval to use their pictures,
most even selected their pictures.

As mentioned below if you could bring fourth some provable evidence to back this claim up would be awesome man. Honestly I'd love to see that all permissions were given and that the users picked their own pictures but it doesn't make much sense given the circumstance and what's already on the table.

You're 100% correct.

They are making money using others property and likeness without permission.. :/

Doesn't that means they could be sued in most jurisdictions for both copyright and portrait right infringements by the ones who don't want to see their photos used like this?

Mildly flagged because the comment is pointless now that it is clear there was no copyright infringement; the images were used with permission. People really need to pause and not be so quick to join lynch mobs on the basis of incorrect and poorly researched "facts"

You are of course correct. I have edited my prior post to indicate that the falsity of my original argument which was based off an incorrect assumption.

I also appreciate that the kid gloves slap you gave me could have been much, much worse. Thanks for not obliterating me.

It was a good rant triddin! But I did drop the ball and not have all the evidence I needed to make a proper case.. Sorry about that man. :/

It's all good man (or woman perhaps?), you're not completely to blame. Any image use, or use of another user's copyrighted material is supposed to be correctly licensed and attributed. It's like rule #1 in the Steem rule book. In this case it wasn't attributed and the comments seemed to make the case that it wasn't above board. It's just an unfortunate situation. I still agree with you that it's in poor taste, but that's nothing against the rules, so just need to suck it up.

Eh, Appreciate it. :)

I jumped the gun and thought I saw something that wasn't there. In the future I'll either be 150% sure or just keep my foul mouth shut I guess.

Tis in poor taste, but so was my post in regards to how I didn't fully investigate before pulling the trigger.

Cheers Sir.

It all boils down to whether the 2 steemers involved were willing participants or not. If not, then I agree that this is poor form, if both parties agreed then it's a case of, if you don't like it scroll on. Shouldn't be too hard to find the answer.

All the people in the steemy games gave their permission to be featured.

You are so right @klye ! Especially about these betting and sports pools , which are draining the daily rewards pool ! These guys are rakeing in a bundle and even if you win a bunch of games the payout is usually under a dollar in the pennies ! While they make hundreds ! Something needs to be done about @steemsports and especially @steemygames ! Very childish and in the end we are all loosers because of the drain on the pool ! And the sooner the better ! Steem on! 🔊🔊🔊

U want to end steemsportz. Ez. Set up a competitor with half the rake. Poof. Instant darwinism. But since nobody is choosing to compete with them, then nobody really HATES steemsports.

Hahaha ! Great answer ! I hope someone does , if the competitor has half the rake that would definitely put them in their place! I know nothing about these things , but I'm sure someone here does ! 😉👍

I wanted to create completely non-profit game, which will transfer all (powered-down SP) with a script, every week. For sure, that would be better, but I didn't want to pollute trending page even more.

Nobody can compete with auto whale votes, no matter what the cut.

I have no particular allegiance to any one of these games. I have voted for other ones and if someone made as serious an effort as Steemsports to invest in developing their concept, promoting it, and trying to expand the reach of Steem/it, but did so with half the rake, I would vote for that as well.

The reason no one is doing this is likely that Steemsports has put and continues to put a ton of work by a team of 7 people. Their total SP earned at this point from what you are calling rake but I would call their post rewards is around $17000. I do not think you will get a flood of people and teams looking to do the same for a lot less.

I'm not saying we outright shit-flag all of these guys posts yet.. Give them some time to change before pulling out the "big guns".

But I know I feel the same way a lot do on this platform.. With that being said I can and will use my followers base to spread the word of injustices going on within our network.

@steemsports and @steemgames are both very much in my cross-hairs at the moment.. They deserve far more scrutiny and kuestioning about their morality and business ethics then they currently receive..

True to that ! And alot of us agree ! So keep up the great work ! I'm home from work and in bed now on my tablet ! lol ! The life of a graveyard shift worker , sleeps all day hahaha! Blogs all night ! Will check your progress later today ! Good luck !👍😉

Here's a link I read about the rewards pool being drained ! from @fyrstikken ! And is actually my main concern
https://steemit.com/witness-category/@fyrstikken/the-big-voting-game-change-proposal

It is unfortunate so much of the author rewards are pillaged by steemsports.. I hope they introduce off chain betting soon

Indeed ! 😉✌👍

Ok read your response thanks for providing the link ! Steeming on !😉♨👍

Could not agree with you more. Especially as a woman, I prefer to be judged by my quality content rather than my appearance. However, we see on the internet that many women have had Instagram success by engaging in this very kind of behavior...and subsequently their photos are used by others to objectify them. Is this just a side effect of the internet? Does every beautiful woman who posts a photo of herself automatically sign off on those posts being used for or against her? Most would argue yes, but I think it's a much larger ethical issue that we will see debated heavily on upcoming years.

Also, I did see it as free promotion for those accounts picked to be involved. I'm sure those accounts gained followers and perhaps even larger dividends as a result of the viral nature of the posts...and while I am inherently opposed to the concept and idea...I have to be totally and hypocritically honest when I say that I wondered what the criteria was to get the attention.

The "Instagram model" pull can be very real for a lot of women who are seeking recognition and monetary rewards in traditionally male-dominated areas, and sexy selfies sell. I've often wondered when/if that objectification was going to penetrate this platform. It's happening with the porn...it's happening with steemygames.

I'm not trying to justify anything here, but unfortunately that's the way men are built. To objectify not just women, but also other men.

Who do you think buys bodybuilder magazines? It's men. When they make a movie and have the hero (or heroine) all dressed up with close fitting armour and visible muscles everywhere, who do you think that's for? That's right, it's for the guys watching the movie.

There are some women (and men) out there who have the bodies to be able to play on this, and while it's mildly offensive to me, it's probably not for the same reason as it is for you and other women.

I find it offensive because I prefer substance, over form, and if I'm honest probably a small extent because I like to think I'm above such superficialness. It's not because I don't find them attractive, or can't see why they would be attractive to other males. I see the gloss as an act of subterfuge, and I don't like being manipulated. I really don't like the fact that I can't help being manipulated, regardless of my awareness of it.

It's not going to make an ounce of difference however. Sexuality sells, and most guys don't care, just so long as they can see the outline of a boob and a good set of curves and imagine themselves with them, or triceps, biceps and good set of abs and imagine themselves having them.

At the end of the day you're fighting against the nature of males and while I and many others are doing our best to take a stand and stand up against it and other injustice. To teach our sons the wrongness of it, and teach our daughters to be aware and wary of it (and self-defence classes for when that doesn't work), there's the opposite proponent out there that are doing exactly the opposite, and while I like to think the world is becoming an incrementally better place for my daughter to grow up in, I'm afraid at times that I'm simply delusional.

This.

Thank you for the reply and sharing your thoughts and feelings on the matter.

I'm very much against the objectification of women and pitting people against eachother in popularity contests.
Our entire planet is difficult enough to live on let alone some dickheads ripping our pics of the net and then having our peers judge us. We've already got enough judgement in the world going on.. Let's try and keep it off the front page of steemit.com ffs.

When a woman posts a "sexy" picture of herself in my classical psychology sense she'd be looking for adoration or attention.. Some re-affirmation that she is beautiful.. However once you have someone take that picture and use it without her permission for monetary gain.. Then that's a legal issue.

I do see the promotion point of things for sure as well now! Thanks for mentioning an angle I had not considered. Most humans have a streak of hypocrisy in them.. I've personally never met anyone who doesn't.

Perhaps it's just my age showing.. But I've never understood the whole instagram thing nor e-celebrities. It's sort of like me wondering to myself how the hell the kardashians are even known..

Our western society breeds stupidity and docile individuals while glorifying shitty behavior and people.. And while I may not be able to change the society I live in physcially I can certainly try and change our digital society starting up here on Steemit.

Thanks again for your share of thoughts and feels. This is what the platform was intended to house in my opinion... Not childish high school beauty pageants.

*edit: missed a word.

You hit the nail on the head! man!

It is kind of nasty to watch.. Part of my work as witness on the STEEM platform is keeping my eyes open for bullshit like this. I'd honestly meant to do an article on it sooner but unfortunately hadn't had the time until this morning to type it up.

Hopefully they at the very least read this post and understand the unfortunate side effects their little games are causing and stop with them.. I'd rather not spend my day trying to morally police people that should know better. :P

it is nice to agree with you this time :)

Thanks for bringing this to light. This is valuable!

Wouldn't actually "hold up" as consent anywhere but it does show you asked her atleast. Thank you. :)

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