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RE: STEEM is still not Steemit, even if Tron buys Steemit.

in #tron3 years ago (edited)

TRON and Steemit’s development teams will immediately begin working together to bring Steemit and other Steem blockchain based DApps to TRON blockchain

old STEEM token to a new TRON based STEEM token, giveaways to the existing TRX users with the new TRON based STEEM token

It seems pretty clear Tron plans to abandon the existing Steem chain and move everything over to Tron, timing unspecified. Witnesses can't do anything about it as Steem witnesses have zero control over the Tron blockchain. Furthermore, Tron has already initiated a token swap on Poloniex, and other exchanges are likely to follow. Once swapped to TRC STEEM, current Steem witnesses will lose all control.

Of course, current witnesses can continue the current chain as Steem Classic or whatever, but Tron's future of Steem is pretty clear now.

Excuse the plug, but some discussions about this here: https://steemit.com/steem/@liberosist/steem-classic-anyone

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The big question is if there will be a fork, of if all major witnesses will move to Tron.

There is also a few interesting things to notice:

  • steemit Inc. Stake will go to the hands of Tron. Even if a fork happens it seems that Tron will still have a big power over the forked version. (Unless they dump the stake, Wich would also damage steem price on the short term
  • where will witnesses a and developers go? Although we could have a fork, if major witnesses a and developers move to Tron, steem will suffer. (ie ethereum classic still exists, but 99% of developers sitcked with vitalik ethereum)

There is a lot of unkows now, and honestly wouldn't be a bad idea to make your steem liquid and be ready for the worst.

There's no fork. As you know, Tron is an existing chain that's worth 17x as much as Steem. They are just moving everything from the Steem chain to the Tron chain. They have their own witnesses, they don't need Steem witnesses. Of course, timing is uncertain, but there might be an interim while they still support the current chain, but the goal is clear. Abandon current Steem chain, move everything to Tron chain.

All they need is exchange support for the swap. Poloniex has already announce the swap to TRC STEEM. The money will follow.

Hi @liberosist

I wasn't aware that tron is worth 17x more than steem. How did you get that number? What is it based on? Just curious.

Yours
Piotr

If it’s the TRX coin, it’s worth less than the PRE token that I’ve got lol. Haven’t heard much about Tron but looks like I’ll start to find out about it now.

Hi again @cmplxty

Can I ask you for little favour? I joined contest called "Community of the week" with project I manage and I would be grateful if you could RESTEEM it and help me get some exposure and drop some encouraging comment :)

Link to my post: on steemit or on steempeak

Thanks :)
Yours, Piotr

It's TRX's market cap, currently $1.7 billion. STEEM's market cap is $0.092 billion.

Hi again @liberosist

Can I ask you for little favour? I joined contest called "Community of the week" with project I manage and I would be grateful if you could RESTEEM it and help me get some exposure and drop some encouraging comment :)

Link to my post: on steemit or on steempeak

Thanks :)
Yours, Piotr

Tron's market cap is now at 1.7 billion while the market capitalization for Steem is around 0.1 b.

https://coinmarketcap.com/

Hi again @heroic15397

Can I ask you for little favour? I joined contest called "Community of the week" with project I manage and I would be grateful if you could RESTEEM it and help me get some exposure and drop some encouraging comment :)

Link to my post: on steemit or on steempeak

Thanks :)
Yours, Piotr

how are they moving everything? other blockchains maybe don't have people, but steem does, and you can't just move people. From what i understood tron wanted user base (because as small steem is, in cripto it is big in the real people doing stuff every day) but with what they wrote people will not be happy to move.

Yeah like if we're powered up how we moving?? lol

No idea how they are moving stuff, I doubt they know either.

I suspect that your money, and I know my money, will only follow with certain assurances. I also expect that if those assurances aren't met, there will sure as hell be a fork, and it won't include any money that failed obligations regarding those assurances.

Some of us here have principles that mean more than tokens.

I know you do. I'm pretty sure I do too.

Many unknowns. It's possible witnesses could decide to fork out Steemit's stake which is now Tron's stake. That has been discussed in the past. The question of where the Steemit, inc employees will go who are working on the protocol is also an open question, including the APIs and such which much of the infrastructure currently relies on. That will have to be answered by Steemit, inc.

Already been answered.

TRON and Steemit’s development teams will immediately begin working together to bring Steemit and other Steem blockchain based DApps to TRON blockchain

They (i.e. Steemit Inc employees) will migrate all current Steem infrastructure to Tron, and it's safe to assume continue to develop the migrated platform on the Tron chain itself.

They're not slaves. I mean maybe they're being paid well to work on Tron, who knows. But if they really want to work on Steem they can always quit that job. The Steem blockchain has its own funding system via SPS which as of today is running about $800K/year, probably enough to pay devs.

Not that much stuff gets funded. The SPS is just another way for Witnesses to feed themselves more. Yes the SPS could do a lot but if the exchanges do the swap it is unlikely that the SPS would be able to support getting listed on other exchanges for Old STEEM unless some key bag holders here really rallied the troops and they did it as a power play. Then they would have a heap of other issues like hosting.....etc. It is unlikely that Old STEEM would retain as much value as the Token on the TRON chain and one by one the STEEM Saviors would sneak out the back door and do the conversion in fear of losing more funds. It would likely make more sense for them to head for high ground and continue the circle jerk on TRON instead of risking ending up like Scorum, WEKU, BearShares, WhaleShares....etc

The SPS is just another way for Witnesses to feed themselves more

This is utter bullshit. Other than having a SP vote like anyone else, witnesses have no say over what gets funded on SPS. I have little doubt that competent Steem developers, if they wanted to work on Steem, would be funded.

As for the rest, we will have to see. Hosting isn't really an issue. @anyx has already said that his node infrastructure can probably handle the load and could also be expanded (it currently only costs $15/day via SPS).

I think there are a fair number of people involved with Steem who want nothing to do with Tron, but I could be wrong.

Exchanges will follow the user base. If there is a user base on the existing chain, they will support it. If the user base goes away (which was already happening to an extent, and this new development doesn't fix that at all), then they won't.

Well with POLO announcing they are bring back STEEM as the TRON token and with CZ and Justin being boyz Binance will likely do the conversion. Bittrex already has a lot of us locked out because suddenly it wanted our SSNs so we said screw it and abandoned it. Bittrex would likely do the swap if the other exchanges were and especially if Steemit INC (Controlled By Tron) helped facilitate the transition with some money and support.

I don't see how the amount of images being uploaded here would only cost $15/day for hosting.

The market had spoken. STEEM was slipping overtime. People have always seen this place as weird and unfair. This has gone on for 4 years and the only times when people have forgot about the issues is when there were irrational hockey stick parabolic moves and the money got relatively insane. Even when that happened most people couldn't really get out fast enough because of the power down cycle. You almost had to be liquid to really benefit.

About the SPS. Most of it is just dog piling up on each others proposals and a lot of it is getting paid for stuff they already were doing previously. Now is some of it important? Sure but for the most part others outside that close circle aren't going to get funded.

I got burned here for the most part and I'm glad that I focused more on stacking other coins. Even stuff I'm not really into like Ethereum and Bitcoin Cash.

Personally I'm really glad I stacked EOS hard and I'm getting the Proxy Voting Rewards and REX rewards. That was a lot safer bet than buying STEEM which was a lot more likely to lose value overtime and be circle jerked to hell. Yes EOS has had their issues but they are on Kraken and Coinbase so people get on and just buy stuff they don't understand that looks "cheap."

I heard @ned wrote a song for us and will play it tomorrow so we will have to tune in for that.

Personally I don't really think many people are going to care too much about the switch to TRON if there is more marketing, Improved UI/UX and they make more money blogging. It will only be that core group of Witnesses who will be cut off from the cash cow that has went on for 4 years.

POLO announcing

Polo is owned by Tron. It's also a nearly-abandoned exchange that was once relevant, but has not had much importance in the industry for a long time. This means very little if anything.

Sure but for the most part others outside that close circle aren't going to get funded.

That's not really the point. Obviously anything sensible that gives people money for work with little to no recourse if the work isn't done (other than cutting off future funding) is going to involve recipients with some sort of reputation. The whole platform would be a whole lot better off if we stopped giving large amounts of money to people who, at least as often as not, turn out to be scammers. It is not SPS that is dysfunctional here, it is the rest of the rewarding system.

To be specific, @howo is not even a witness and is funded to do testing of the SMT code (something the Steemit devs should have done, but only did minimally, if at all). @netuoso is funded to work on the desktop wallet and while he is a witness, he dropped out of the top 20 long ago and currently sits at #52, earning essentially nothing. (And, contrary to your claims, neither was doing this work previously.)

Any competent Steem devs who want to be funded by SPS would be in the same category. The test of SPS is not whether if funds randos, it is whether it funds reputable, competent people when there is work to be done and someone qualified to do it, and also that it does not fund milkers and scammers. So far the answer seems to be yes on both.

Anyway, we will see what happens. One thing we agree on is that Steem has not exactly taken the world by storm. There are ample opportunities for Tron, 'Steem Classic', or other solutions altogether to do better in the future.

In the above comment thread, we've been referring to Steemit Inc employees. Point taken, they can quit Steemit Inc/Tron and continue work on the legacy Steem chain, but until they do, they are still Steemit Inc employees under Tron's management, currently tasked with moving all of Steem's infrastructure and dApps (with Steemit.com confirmed) to Tron.

It was a hypothetical, in the event that the Steem blockchain and whatever Tron wants to do go forward in parallel. I have reason to believe that at least some of the Steem devs would rather work on the Steem code than work on Tron, if an economically-viable pathway exists to do that. Whether that will ever happen I have no idea.

Sure, it's prudent to consider all options. Not a hypothetical, as the announcement clearly states their plans for moving to Tron wholesale. It's obvious the announcement was rushed to gate crash Voice beta, so one can hope calmer minds prevail and they modify their plans to be more gradual and thoughtful.

We both know a Steem classic token will not retain that value and that will impact the resources flowing to the SPS.

It depends. A well-managed transition wouldn't necessarily change much.

There isn't anything particularly remarkable about the current value. Yes the price has gone up recently and some might attribute that to this announced Tron deal but I'm not so sure. Steem's market cap ranking is about where it was for most of the past year when frankly nothing visible was going on. It seems to be mostly going with the flow of a mild 'alt season'. Actual development supported by SPS would be an improvement.

But of course, we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

While you're clearly right about all else herein, it's just unreasonable to fail to anticipate a price decrease with a fork under such conditions IMHO. It's not like history hasn't provided examples.

If 'Steem Classic', or Gold, or Cash, or whatever name the new chain settles on, rises in price rather than declines, it would be the first fork to do so.

None of the other blockchain 'fork' examples you allude to are really analogous. Most of them (e.g. Bitcoin gold) are third party forks created by opportunists. Ethereum Classic is very much a special case and also very different as it didn't involve the founder selling out to a competing chain/foundation, but instead actively supporting the non-Classic chain.

Anyway, after the live streem, the lastest is that the token swap is off for now and the existing Steem blockchain will continue as before. I would imagine most fork proposals will accordingly off the table, but who can say going forward. I expect many in the Steem community to remain skeptical of the new corporate overlords (which a blockchain doesn't really have), as well they should.

It would be naïve to think that most of the migration hasn’t already been planned and set to occur shortly after the public announcement. I’m sure this entire buyout and migration has been in the works for at least several weeks/months, as Sun had apparently made a large purchase of STEEM around January 20th...which kind of doesn’t make sense if they’re migrating everything.

What we’ll likely see is all of the previously hosted content published via Steemit.com moved to the TRON chain, where that TRON content will be viewable on the new SteemiTron.com interface (pretty sure it won’t be called that).

Regarding the other comments about continuing the current Steem chain but forking out the STINC/TRON stake...

I would support that.

That was my first thought, then I realized Steemit Inc has been tasked partially with handling the migration. Yeah, it's going to take several years to move everything... The token swap is imminent though.

Thank you for the link, definitely appreciated.

As you say:

The answer is, they can't. The Steem witnesses, and indeed, the existing Steem chain at large, will have nothing to do with the TRC STEEM token.

Then again, I was not aware of the Polo token swap announcement you mention: https://support.poloniex.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043406513

It may all come down to how the exchanges respond and how the liquidity in the market responds.

IMO, the urgent plan of action from top witnesses should be to collaborate, contact exchanges and Tron, negotiate a hold on the swap ASAP. This stuff needs to be discussed and worked out. If the swap is allowed to go forward, it'll be too late, the Tron STEEM will be the new STEEM.

What if the new price of tron steem open up less than a penny? lol sounds sketch to me in the conversion details alone!!!!

That does seem like a rational plan of action but who has direct contact with the exchanges? It's most likely Steemit, Inc.

And Steemit, Inc. is now owned by Tron, which is why the odds are stacked heavily against the witnesses of the current chain. There's not much choice but to contact Tron and the exchanges and work it out.

@lukestokes what about Steem that is powered up and locked for 13 weeks, has anyone considered this??? Then there is the question about Delegation's.....

and other exchanges are likely to follow

Why would they follow?

Because Tron is a big player in the crypto industry, currently a $1.7 billion project. Meanwhile, Steem witnesses are a bunch of randos exchanges have never heard about before. Where do you think the smart money is going to go? And as you put it elsewhere, CZ is buddies with Justin, if Binance and Poloniex announce support for TRC STEEM, do you really think other exchanges are going to go the other way?

I agree. Just wanted to see someone else say it.

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