Right-Wing Websites Are Distorting Scientific Data to Attack Trans People ⚧
There have been some alarming headlines going around the right-wing media landscape, warning that drugs used to prevent puberty in trans children — like Lupron — have resulted in “thousands” of adult deaths. The numbers are accurate. But the way they’re being used is a distortion of the facts. Outlets like The Daily Wire, The Christian Post, and LifeSite News have released articles proclaiming the dangers of puberty blockers based on data from the FDA Adverse Effect Reporting System (FAERS). These stories were reposted on Facebook by influential conservative talking heads Ben Shapiro, Michael Knowles, and Matt Walsh, and they went viral. But what those posts don’t tell you is that the FDA is careful to warn users of its limitations as a tool for drawing conclusions about the safety of a given medication. Duplicate reports, inaccuracies, lack of medical verification, and rampant confounding factors all make it impossible to draw conclusions based on the out-of-context numbers displayed in the FAERS database.
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Source: Right-Wing Websites Are Distorting Scientific Data to Attack Trans People
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Pretty sure the conversation was about how the drug has caused deaths and therefore it is possibly unintelligent to give them to a 7yr old child... among other reasons why this is unintelligent.
It’s not an alt right thing or a “Christian” thing, it’s a common sense thing.
How do you feel about giving puberty blockers (that you just admitted have caused deaths) to a 7yr old child?
It almost sounds like you didn't watch this video, but if you did, they brought up how the drug is used for more than one condition and that puberty blocking isn't the most common condition it's used for.
Some of the conditions this drug is used for is life threatening, so quoting the deaths "involved" with the use of the drug is deceptive.
I explained the death part in the previous comment and again and if you didn't watch the video, it's okay, I read the texts in Steem posts too but the actual video has a lot more info.
Personally, I would only give one of my children the drug if I knew them REALLY well (which I would), if they were on the onset of puberty (NOT 7 YEARS OLD!!!) and if it was clear, or at least seemed very clear to me that they were actually transgender, and extremely transgender to avoid the possibility that they were not just following the trend.. that's not the stance of everyone in @atheistrepublic, @arminnavabi or @alliejackson but it is the response of one atheist.. me.
I did watch the video, yes. In the beginning, as well as in the text, you admit that “the numbers are accurate”... the issue you have is that because the drug is used for more than just puberty blockers that the numbers misrepresented how many actually died from using it this way, but the numbers are still accurate.
Saying “well of course some people will die” seems like an odd argument when accusing the other side of “attacking trans people.”
How is saying “hey guys, this drug you use for puberty blockers has led to 1000’s of deaths, perhaps it shouldn’t be given to children” attacking trans people?
I disagree with the idea that because some trans adults said it would have been easier for them to start the transition before puberty even took place as a good reason to start transitioning young children with a drug that could lead to issues down the road. Not only is it difficult for a child that age to understand the decision they are making, but doing so when a child is going through so many important development could disrupt their whole system.
All that aside, as my opinion is not really why I commented.. I just feel this post is twisting and misrepresenting just as you accused the other side of doing.
“The numbers are accurate” - you should of probably stopped there, as “I just don’t like the way they worded it” does not mean they are attacking anyone.
I saw the posts about the drug and there was nothing attacking about them and most definitely not towards the trans community, it was that of concern for a young child.
If “the numbers are accurate” then that concern seems pretty valid in my opinion.
Here is a quote from a news article that explains more:
The story went viral on right-wing news websites such as the Christian Post and the Daily Wire. According to CrowdTangle, a social media metric platform, these posts — including shares by Daily Wire founder Ben Shapiro and commentator Matt Walsh — are currently some of the top performing LGBTQ-related content on Facebook and Twitter.
The problem is: the “thousands” of people who die while taking these drugs are likely the terminally ill cancer patients who receive hormone blockers to fight hormone-sensitive cancers, like prostate cancer, according to experts.
The people who died while taking this drug probably died from cancer, not from a side-effect of the medication.
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/viral-fake-news-story-linked-trans-healthcare-thousands-deaths-n1059831
You may have been looking at different posts from different communities. @atheistrepublic was referring to this:
Having said that, I'm also afraid of the well-being of that child.. not because of the drug alone but because he is 7 years old and is already being considered for transition. I think that is too young to consider anything of that nature.
So you are reporting based on an article that says they were twisting facts, but you did not go do the research yourself on the actual posts by the individuals you mentioned?
Do you know this for a fact? Well enough to actually report on such a thing at least to your large audience?
No, I saw the posts by those you mentioned here. I am not going by what someone else said they said, I’m going by what they themselves said - as I watched the story unfold.
And your click bait headline - where are the attacks to trans people and “distortion of scientific data”?
I just find it quite alarming that your whole video was about how these individuals did not do research and were misrepresenting facts, when you yourself are doing the same thing you are accusing them of.
I'm not @arminnavabi.. I'm a volunteer that manages his Steem account and he'd tell me the exact things you are telling me but I am mainly here to interact with his Steem followers and I am still learning the ropes as I go as I am a new volunteer of @atheistrepublic.
I agreed to anonymously volunteer for @atheistrepublic to bring them to the Steem blockchain and because I support @arminnavabi's stances on Freedom of Speech, the separation of Church & State and the idea of using the Prevention & Reduction of harm as a basis for morality.
There are a lot of things I agree with @arminnavabi on and some things I don't, but I DO agree with his practice of critical thinking and you are also calling me out on NOT thinking critically.
I didn't think critically in my replies and still have to learn and practice. The differences between what was said in the video and what I typed is due to me being a different person than any of the people in the video.
I joined @atheistrepublic specifically to help them join Steem and I actually grew to appreciate their work the more I got involved. Your feedback and constructive criticism will help me manage the comment section better @justineh.
If you notice, I upvote the most thoughtful comments and give the greatest voting strength to the best ones, whether or not it is for or against @atheistrepublic. That's my strategy, I think it's best for @atheistrepublic and I also think it will help me think critically better, and faster 😊
And I appreciate you taking the time to further a good discussion here and completely understand you cannot speak on behalf of those in the video etc.
Thanks for taking the time to have the discussion with me. All the best.
Thank you @justineh 😊
I reviewed our discussion with @arminnavabi earlier this week and I was informed that he doesn't pick the titles of these videos, nor does his team.
The team is only providing commentary in their videos of viral religious news and the Title + Description is the title and position of the news article they provide commentary on.
If you check the text of this post, a link to the sourced article is included and the article does not necessarily represent the views of any of the team, @arminnavabi or @atheistrepublic.
The things that each person said in the video represents their views and sometimes their discussions are not enough to cover the article in a comprehensive way 👍
Spreading this kinda propaganda won't be change the minds of those who've made up their minds to support the trans people. I'm sure when this right wing media don't get the results they need from attacking like this, they'll probably keep quiet or at worst, find another humorous reason or theory to hate.
I've never been much of a Deist. I believe in nature, in that which I can see and experience in the world.
I didn't even believe in good and evil until recently -just actions and consequences. Then I noticed how much our culture is being skewed towards ignoring consequences in favor of whatever feels good right now. And I'm starting to understand what good and evil really means in this context.
If you want to turn people like me toward Christianity faster than you can say "trans kids," just keep promoting the idea that people should go and alter their children's biology through drugs. Good Lord.
I personally don't care if you head towards or away from Christianity but I tend to think you already have an attachment to that religion based on the word "Lord" at the end of your post.
Having said that, this drug is intended to prevent teenagers from doing things like cutting off their penises just because they are following the "trans kids" bandwagon, and in the video, that is what @arminnavabi explains.
Did you watch the video or are you commenting based on the title and summary @wholeself-in?
My attachment to that religion has grown in recent years, by a mechanism that I'd think you, as someone whose stated purpose is to give a voice to atheists, might want to understand. It goes like this:
As a kid and young adult, I perceived Christianity to be a dogmatic belief system forced upon others, against their natural instincts. This perception was formed in part by popular culture, in part by my baby boomer parents who did not believe in making their kids (or themselves) go to church, and in part by my experience with a somewhat aggressive Baptist grandmother who wanted us to go to church and actually believed eternal salvation could hinge upon the ritual of baptism.
At that time I might have called myself atheist, though I preferred "agnostic" as I always thought it arrogant to presume you know one way or another.
More recently, my experience is quite the opposite. I see secularism more and more being pushed upon people, against our natural instincts to observe differences between male and female, to have children, and to protect them and teach them as they grow into adults.
Because I have a strong interest in human development both as a mother and as a professional, I've grown sick of watching recent developments on this topic so no, I did not watch the video until you challenged me. I can't claim to be unbiased at this point, but I find the arguments for this usage of these drugs to be disingenuous and not well thought out. To delay puberty until the child is old enough to make an informed decision? And how is this child-adult, who did not experience puberty alongside his peers, supposed to inform his decision? What is the lived experience of a teen who, instead of facing the trials and tribulations of growing up with the support of trusted adults who have been there, was given drugs by those who should have been in the position of trusted advisor, with the illusion that everyone could just wait and see what kind of adulthood the young person would choose?
That's not how any of this works.
I may never go fully Christian as I'm not interested in anyone who expects dogma to go unquestioned. But I keep being surprised again and again how the morals which I once thought dusty and overly restrictive, really did serve a purpose in guiding people who might need a generation or two to realize the negative consequences of their actions.
I think you are describing mainstream media more than anything else, and how things are changing as they always do.
I also think it's common for each generation to be put off by the following generation and I feel the same discomfort you do. Having said that, I agree with keeping religion out of Government = Secularism.
I think it is also must be decided on a case-by-case basis.
In many cases, giving this drug to a child would be a bad decision but I think there are some cases where it would help.
And IMO the struggle is not in determining if this drug is good or bad to give to a non-adult, but when is it good or bad to permit a non-adult to take this drug.
Have you ever met an adult transgender who was male and despises the fact that they already experienced puberty?
You seem to feel as though you discovered some wisdom.. if that's the case, I'd be happy to listen (read) and discuss it with you.
No. I have met many people who despise things about themselves, and about their past. It is never healthy to indulge in this kind of destructive thinking. Accepting what is, and working to be the best version of oneself each and every day is far more likely to lead to constructive relationships and positive outcomes. Research (not about trans people, but about other hardships such as trauma or disability) supports this, personal experience supports this, and so does ancient wisdom. Life can be hard; this idea that putting off the onset of a natural life change will make a hard life easier is ludicrous.
Lest I seem to be dismissing the experience of transgender people, I'm not - I just don't know any. I've known people with cancer. I've known people who lost a child in a car accident. I've known people raising a child with severe brain damage, after he drowned in their pool. I once worked with a young woman who was quadriplegic. I bet they all wished something had gone differently in their past. Then they got up, put their pants on (or had someone put them on, in the quadriplegic girl's case,) and lived their lives in the best way they could. Given the risk of altering the puberty of a bunch of confused kids who might not become trans versus the reward of possibly making transition easier for the few that actually do, I would always err on the side of "first, do no harm."
I'm sick with a head cold at the moment so I doubt I could turn out any more rational thoughts - but I'll take you up on that discussion sometime in the future.
I highly recommend you comment on things that you actually have experience with.
The fact that you don't even have a close relationship with even a single transgender, much less have experience with teenagers who consider themselves transgenders tells me there is a good chance you are judging things from the perspective of someone who "doesn't know any" transgenders and not from the perspective of being a transgender teen or the mother of a teen that considers themselves transgender.
I am not fully discrediting your perspective but my perspective changed A LOT after meeting and becoming good friends with transgenders who are fairly happy as they are = they're transgender.
That's why I'm refraining from voicing my opinion on whether or not it's a good idea to alter one's body at all - it doesn't apply here, and no one is asking me.
I am judging from the perspective of a therapist with quite a lot of experience in childhood interventions of all types. Unlike the speakers in this video, who feel obliged to state that they aren't doctors and don't really know what risks might be introduced with this intervention, I am not commenting on something about which I have no experience. There are risks, not just from altering the endocrine system of a body, but also from failing to respect how a person's values, interests, and needs change immensely through the lifespan.
My perspective changed a lot after seeing how difficult it is for so many parents to set boundaries, and to face momentary discomfort for something that's far better in the long run. They want their child to be less anxious, but they don't set aside time for the earlier bedtime routine and the physical exercises we show them. They really want their autistic child to learn to talk, but turning off YouTube to do the sometimes tedious work of connecting with that child on his level is uncomfortable for everyone, so on it goes. They'll turn to pharmaceuticals for help, and sometimes it will help. Their doctors will be quite willing to prescribe them, since doctors don't really know how to advise people on the day to day work of living.
What I'm saying is I've seen our systems fail kids again and again, and I see this as no different. When school days got longer and recess got shorter and everyone got their own screens suddenly everyone had ADHD, and there's a pill for that. Then they put girls in boy scouts, made most male role models coed, started calling masculinity toxic and told girls we really only have value if we pursue careers instead of motherhood. Now more people are becoming trans and what do ya know - there's a pill for that too.
My deep and abiding mistrust here isn't about trans people, it's about altering development through medical intervention when so much can be done to support one another without invasive treatments.
I can think of two analogies to help us understand one another. Cochlear implants are an invasive medical intervention that even I would argue should be done when a child is young so they might grow up being able to hear. I don't see making a child trans in that light, but I could try to see how your friends might see it that way. So here's the other: what if Christian families started giving a hormonal treatment to their children, which made them more likely to have a transcendental experience and to believe in God? Maybe it would be part of a confirmation ceremony, so only if the child "chooses" it, of course. Would you support that? Personally, I would not. Even if there seemed to be no adverse effects, and if I believed they'd have happier lives by this medical conversion to Christianity, I would consider this wrong. That's just not how any of this works.
Thank you @wholeself-in I am interested in your perspective since I am a parent 😊
My deep and abiding mistrust here isn't about trans people, it's about altering development through medical intervention when so much can be done to support one another without invasive treatments.
Thank you, thank you @wholeself-in I have seen a lot of this too. I think I actually had a semi-hard time growing up in a society where male and female roles were not clearly defined.
I think there are some males that belong as males acting less masculine than they'd otherwise benefit from and visa-versa for females.
Nice example @wholeself-in. I see your point but at the same time, I wouldn't want the Government making it illegal for parents to decide what's best for their children (I don't want the Government to have that much power) but at the same time, I also understand that many parents might end up doing the wrong thing.
All in all, excellent insight @wholeself-in I upvoted your comment with 100% voting strength
Uhm, Puttin it down!! :applause: That’s the sound of the audience on their feet.
I’m came by here to say hello and maybe introduce myself a little bit better. I straightened up my hair, made sure there wasn’t anything in my teeth and everything. I was all freshened up, put on a clean sweater, so I could stop by and say “nice to be met!”
Well, the surprise is on me because I just read an eye opening response that really captured my attention—thank you. Something nice to be something met or something. Enjoy your Sunday @wholeself-in. “It’s nice to be met.”
Nice to meet you too! I came across your page through a resteem by summertooth. I liked what I read, so you got a sneaky follow.
Thanks for getting all cleaned up and everything. I'm having a lazy Sunday morning as I still have a cold. Guess I'd better go take a shower, ya never know who you're gonna meet.
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That was intentional irony, but you're not wrong.
I don't mind you having an attachment to Christianity @wholeself-in
P.S. Can you address the other aspects of my reply?
I appreciate the upvote and want to mention that I'm glad you're on 3Speak even though it seems I may disagree with you on quite a bit. I don't downvote very often and promise not to be a troll, but it just happens I disagree with this one vehemently. Except on one point though: to the extent those other sites were misrepresenting data in a misleading way to make this practice seem more threatening than it is, I agree that doing that is despicable. And that they should know better, as they often criticise others for doing the same thing.
There are perfectly valid reasons for criticising people trying to alter a child's development in this way, there's no need to fear monger.
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