Let's talk about phobias. From a personal approach

in steemstem •  26 days ago 

Have we ever heard of different people, I have a phobia of heights, I have a phobia of cockroaches, I have a phobia of a certain object.

This is where I rarely leave my comfort zone and by this I mean writing a publication unrelated to my area and the reason is a personal experience. Obviously because I am not an expert in this subject my content may present some errors, but to avoid this I always try to investigate a lot on the subject in question so that my content is full of reliable information, truthful and not provide incorrect information.

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In this case it is my mother, 55 years old, civil engineer with a postgraduate degree in civil construction and a bachelor's degree in integral education. And the ones I'm going to tell you about are extremely strange because of their academic level.

About 15 years ago I had noticed something strange about her and that is that on several occasions she showed no interest in computers and phones, at that time had not yet come to market the smartphones, I think the boom had begun BlackBerry, to tell the truth, I do not remember very well. There were several brands that were bringing to market beautiful 3D color screen phones, especially Nokia, my father had given one to my mother for her birthday and she accepted, but I did not see a face of joy. As the days went by I realized that the phone was in his box my mother did not use it and I asked her: - "Mom what happens because you do not use the cell phone that my father gave you", and she replied: "I like the one I have I do not understand much that new phone". My mother had a big heavy old cell phone that was only good for making calls, I remember she didn't send text messages, because she doesn't like to deal with things that way.

After a few weeks my mother gave me the phone my father had given her, I was very happy and didn't give it importance. But then I noticed that my mother prepared her expositions and talks with sheets of paper, she didn't use slides that was the boom of that moment, in addition she had gone out to the market very good computer programs of calculations of structures of design and excellent simulators and my mother continued doing her calculations and designs of manual form and that was quite strange to me with all the technology that we were adopting in this then.

With the passing of the years many technological advances have been implemented and nevertheless my mother still does not use computers or intelligent telephones, at present she only uses the old telephone of our house. Well, I shouldn't criticize too much because I've had practically one year without a smartphone since my last one was stolen. Sad reality of my country hahaha.

I came to the conclusion about two years ago that my mother may suffer from "technophobia", which as its name indicates is the medium for everything related to technology, but in this case my mother is not afraid of everything because she uses kitchen utensils and very sophisticated appliances, so she is only afraid of the computer and cell phone, which is the "cyberphobia and nomophobia" respectively.

It sounds pretty weird, doesn't it? and especially because of my mother's profession! And because of this, I was curious to publish something related to phobias. But this publication has a very particular focus on how to deal in a general way with phobias, I do not want to extend myself to write everything about phobias or make this article like wikipedia, because that's why we have wikipedia.

The focus of this post is more than anything to talk about the techniques and one of the most effective techniques to be able to cure this disorder and is based on everything I have read during this last time and highlight the most relevant.

Let's get started!

Firstly, fear is an emotion caused by effect or threat of physical or psychological damage that usually people to feel this feeling usually flee, in fact, the action that generates fear is a beneficial and adaptive reaction, as long as it is a rational or proportional to the situation experienced by the person.

When we have an irrational fear disproportionate to the situation presented and of extreme intensity can be said to be a phobia. Usually in the vast majority of cases when people only think of the phobic stimulus causes people to experience a disproportionate fear, ie if we are afraid of an elevator simply thinking that these within one will cause you to experience a sudden feeling of fear, anxiety and agitation, but above all will prevent you from thinking clearly because your body and by that feeling your body will try to fight or flee from that circumstance.

Creative Commons 3 - CC BY-SA 3.0 Nick Youngson

This feeling is not pleasant at all for this reason people who suffer from a phobia usually avoid by all means what causes so much fear which may be an object, situation or activity. Something very interesting is that people who suffer from some kind of phobia may recognize that their fear is excessive or irrational but it is still virtually impossible to control it.

Many of us also tend to mix the definition of phobia with anxiety and get confused with these two terms.

Anxiety is a form that goes far beyond the limit of fear itself, that is, when the medium exceeds the limit it becomes panic. When a situation is overcome that kind of sensation becomes a phobia, take as an example again to be afraid to fly in an airplane "is natural", if we have phobia to fly we would not have the ability to get on the plane because the fear leads to create a reaction of "panic" that tends to completely block the person and the phobias can be directed over anything. We can become panickers of a situation, of a subject or of a thought and therefore it can lead us to a reaction, we can produce the panic attack "a kind of electric shock in the body that terrifies us" and the person feels in that moment like a sensation of slow death or madness or even the fear can also lead us to reactions to fight them through compulsions as for example, Repeated hand washing, repeating formulas or other compulsions, or just as phobia can lead us to constantly ask for help from another person and become dependent on that person.

"It is here where I say that my mother depends a lot on other people to be able to perform some tasks that require the use of technology, for example, when she needs to make a bank transfer she calls my sister or me and asks for the favor, when we can not she tends to despair and get upset because handling data from a bank account is very delicate and must only be done by a person of her trust.

I mentioned to him: - "Mother, in about 3 months I'm leaving the country, how are you going to communicate with me?".

As I said at the beginning he doesn't like cell phones of any kind, only a local phone and in my country making long distance calls can't be done due to bad phone service. Maybe I'll ask my sister for a favor and she'll put us on video call and give me a greeting and blessing, that's what we do today with my younger sister who's in another country, my mother doesn't touch the smart phone, she just shows up and gives a greeting and talks a little with my sister while I hold the phone.

To tell you the truth, it's very strange, I ask her if she's ever been through trauma or anything like that and she says no! Nowadays using a computer is essential for every human being and more if a person is a professional in the field of engineering, I sincerely find it very strange all this that my mother suffers, I have even told her that we go to a psychologist or something like that to see if we treat this phobia and she categorically refuses.

Public domain Pixabay

We must mention that there are phobias or fears that are learned as, for example, when we are small our parents tell us that spiders are dangerous or is something we should fear and we fill our minds with that idea and therefore as we grow up we continue to be afraid of this insect. For this reason there are quite particular phobias or very strange.

Then we ask ourselves the question: is a phobia something with which we live the rest of our lives?

To answer this question we say that you can not necessarily live with this disorder because there are several treatments and one of the best known is "Systematic desensitization" which consists of gradually exposing the person to phobic stimulus, until he can experience it without panic.

It is said that 8% of the world's population suffers from some phobia, although sometimes it is very difficult to recreate the stimulus we are afraid of. For example, if we are afraid of lightning or the sound of thunder, the treatment must be submitted around thunderstorms, which is not very efficient due to the danger. In this type of cases virtual reality is used and they can finally overcome their phobia.

For this reason I have investigated these problems by my own means for some months now and have found the following:

Why are these phobias generated, is there a specific cause?

Some psychiatrists specializing in the subject mention that the question of why? has always been a dangerous question in that it induces us to look for a cause in the past as I mentioned in the previous paragraph, but most of the people who suffer from some phobia have not presented any experience that has caused some trauma, have not even had any conditioning of family experience or any specific situation, even has no biochemical justifications that can justify this.

The pathological fear can happen to any person, I could call it as something "democratic" can suffer from phobia the most intelligent person in the world, even the most ignorant, those who have more money, those who have less money, the bravest and the most cowardly, who has had a complicated and very difficult life, and another that the truth has few problems or has presented during his life. Experts do not have a sure and correct explanation of why a person may suffer from a phobia.

Experts do know how to build a phobia and it is that people build it by reacting to certain sensations through 3 solution attempts that try to control the situation that frightens them.

  • The first according to these experts is the strategy of the room, but the more they are avoided the more they confirm the inability to manage that condition. So what makes you feel safe first causes this fear to increase even more.
  • The strategy of controlling one's own reactions consists of being calm, controlling or frightening the fear. But this creates a paradoxical effect between us in which reactions increase and become panic, so trying to control this fear can cause the opposite and lose control altogether.
  • And the third strategy is to look for a person who can calm down or accompany the other person who is suffering from phobia.
  • If some of us put these strategies into practice for at least 3 months a panic reaction is built. A clear example is if we are afraid to speak in public and put these strategies into practice there will come a time when the person by trying so many times to solve this problem can get to explode, ie, experience so much these actions come to an effect that is overflowing exasperated. There is no external stimulus because the mind builds what we fear.

    It is affirmed that phobias are constructed in this way since for many years studies have been carried out and it has not been possible to clinically demonstrate how a phobia is constructed. Therapeutic solutions have not explained the problems.

    A therapeutic strategy can be applied to so many people suffering from this disorder, the problem in its structure describes the same strategy, and therefore the solutions explain the problem.

    The vast majority of psychotherapists in the world have tried to counteract this problem by unblocking these 3 failed reactions and putting into practice techniques so that people can change this phobic reaction.

    What do we do when we have a phobia?

    For many years different techniques have been studied, but one of the most effective that has lasted more than 30 years or remains the most valid is "The technique of the worst fantasy" which is to teach people to seek fear with their own fantasies, they are told that every day for the course of 30 minutes should isolate themselves and imagine their worst fantasy against their phobia.

    "This is good! I mentioned it to my mother and made her laugh and the truth could turn out. How about imagining you're using a smartphone or the computer and simulating structure and design calculation programs or things like that related to civil engineering. "Mom this could help you a lot to do a better job, a lot more efficient and faster, but above all it could generate better economic income and I think that's the key word in this! "more money" because for no one is a secret that is a great motivation hahaha.

    Certainly I say this from my own perspective as a novice not knowing the area, it is likely that doing this or encouraging my mother in this way this making a serious mistake and can simply hide the phobia, or maybe if it works and I can make it disappear with this technique and probably conclude that the phobia was not as strong as we imagined, in this case I am left with the doubt and would need the opinion of an expert as for example @abigail-dantes which is the closest to me within STEEM that could know a lot about the subject.

    Another clear and concise example with this technique is if a person is afraid to fly in an airplane, then he must undergo this therapy imagining that he is flying, but it must be done in a measured way, that is to say, we know that the person suffers from this terrible disorder and the first thing he is going to imagine is that the airplane is going to crash or explode, the person always tends to imagine the worst because that is what he fears of death. Then the patient must first be properly prepared by entering a comfort zone before entering the plane. That which people experience is called "paradoxical effect" which is very surprising for the person, who getting into their own worst fantasies do not present fear on the contrary tend to relax. People when imagining or encountering this kind of sensations are not scared, it is as if they call the ghost then touch it and make it disappear.

    After this experience the person is usually guided 5 times during the day in an interval of 3 hours to reintroduce themselves into their worst fantasies, regarding their fears and most frightening situations, but on this occasion without isolating themselves by continuing to do their daily activities and the person is put to the test that the more they look for fear the less it comes to them.

    To continue with this type of therapy the person is taught to use this same technique every time he feels this fear situation or when the fear comes without warning and thus the person experiences concretely how to overcome their fears. After having learned to use this technique is planned how to deal with situations that so far the person has constantly avoided and after several sessions the person overcomes his disorder.

    Studies have shown that in 95% of cases this type of technique completely cures the person with a phobic disorder. After overcoming and following the patient in periods of 3, 6 and 12 months and showing that there are no relapses or that the symptom becomes another disorder.

    In general, when there are relapses, specialists analyze their entire treatment and find that the patient has made a mistake during the same or has put into practice some of the erroneous strategies that can cause or increase their phobic disorder.

    In conclusion I can say that if a person with a phobic disorder complies with therapy properly can overcome their fears completely and this is very important because you can feel a sense of freedom and doing normal things in your life without fear of anything. It is very important to be very clear about the three strategies that are the cause of a phobia, because if we do not understand these steps well is difficult to carry out the treatment correctly.

    If you have any suggestions or other important points to add to this topic and be able to discuss please leave your comment.

    As I mentioned at the beginning of this publication I am a novice in this subject and I am simply writing from my own perspective of everything I have read and the experience lived with my mother.

    Thank you very much for taking the time to read this content.


  • Everything you need to know about phobias. Last updated Wed 20 December 2017By Yvette Brazier
  • What are phobias?
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  • Anxiety and Panic
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  • 30 Unusual Phobias You Never Knew Existed
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  • The Psychology Behind Fear
  • Phobias
  • Systematic Desensitization. By Saul McLeod, updated 2015
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    I love this article. It is very clear and presents the subject in an way that might help anyone with a phobia.

    Only 8%? I know people who are afraid to fly. Sometimes they force themselves, but they medicate to do so. And people who are terrified of spiders--to an irrational degree. Maybe I know a lot of super-sensitive people :)

    Helping your mother would be great. Phobia is a syndrome most people would gladly be rid of. It's just that they feel powerless, and the longer the phobia exists the greater it becomes. I believe that avoidance just magnifies the problem over time...but as you say, @abigail-dantes would know more about this.

    Good luck with your mom. Thanks for a helpful article.

    Thank you for taking the time to read my publication.

    Only 8%? I know people who are afraid to fly. Sometimes they force themselves, but they medicate to do so. And people who are terrified of spiders--to an irrational degree. Maybe I know a lot of super-sensitive people :)

    • Do you think this number is high or low? The truth is that I was surprised when I found it because it is a high %.

    For me it would be great if my mother could overcome this, because in a short time I will go to another country and the only way to communicate is by phone or computer, then it will be very difficult to communicate with her.

    I'm trying to help her now, I have little time left to do something positive.

    Hello @carloserp-2000 :)

    Firstly let me tell you how much I enjoyed reading this post. Of course, I am sorry for your mum's experience and also for how limiting it can be for you all. But, you did an excellent job in capturing the most relevant aspect of this topic and discussing it from a personal perspective. If only more people were this dedicated to the psychological distress that visits them, or indeed, their loved ones society in general would be much less troubled by mental afflictions! So, well done there :)

    Now, to your mum... Personally, I would not be so quick as to say she is being afflicted by some specific kind of phobia. You did say "I remember she didn't send text messages, because she doesn't like to deal with things that way." One possibility to consider is that her personal preferences of dealing with things have distanced her from adopting computers and smart-phones to such an extent that now to catch up with it all might feel intimidating and overwhelming for her. Especially because she is a smart woman this sort of intimidation might affect her in an even more negative degree.

    The option you highlighted of addressing phobias is a cognitive approach. I am a greater believer of cognitive methods. But, I wouldn't start with suggesting her to think of her worst fears in relations to computers and smart-phones. I would start with:

    (1) asking her, casually, what is that which goes through her head when she imagines herself handling them. You might hear that she just feels awkward about it!

    (2) ask her how she feels about it (her awkwardness) and inform her that how she feels about it doesn't really reflect the reality of things (e.g. that she actually might be more talented at using those devices than she ever imagined).

    (3) discuss her possible thoughts with her in an objective way. For example, showing that what intimidates her can (a) be overcome, or (b) is not exactly realistic.

    (4) when she has conquered he own negative thoughts and, therefore, emotions about these devices it's time to "try things on". Calling your younger sister on her own might be a good option. When she does, it is paramount for your sister to celebrate this as a huge accomplishment (positive reinforcement).

    It's important to remember, however, that this can only ever be accomplished if she is willing to brave into the world of computers and phones :D People can only be helped with whatever mental hesitancy or intimidation they're experiencing if they are open to challenge the object of their affliction. One can only be helped if one wants to be helped :)

    These are my suggestions. If you have any other questions let me know :) I am no expert, but I am familiar with the topic you discussed here. The most peculiar instance I've dealt with was that of a young woman who was afraid of waking up! We, people, are peculiar in that way :) But, we are also incredibly resilient and goal oriented.

    Thank you for the mention my dear Carlos & congratulations, once again, for the incredible work you put together here!

    The option you highlighted of addressing phobias is a cognitive approach. I am a greater believer of cognitive methods. But, I wouldn't start with suggesting her to think of her worst fears in relations to computers and smart-phones. I would start with:

    • I totally agree with you about this, the ideal would be to start by asking you that kind of question about how you feel about using these devices, and believe me I have asked you many times and my mother simply ignores me and changes the conversation! Lately I haven't had much contact with her since we live in different cities, but the times I have talked with her personally and I explain how important these devices are she pays attention to me and I have personally shown her different computer programs and I say "mother-test" and when she tries to do it, she immediately crashes, gets nervous, gets stressed and goes somewhere else.

    I always try to address the issue, but every time I do we argue or she ignores me and since we spend very little time together, then I don't mention her much about it anymore and I try to enjoy a nice time by her side.

    I'd like to take her to therapy, but she always refuses, I still don't know why she's so afraid of phones and computers.

    It's important to remember, however, that this can only ever be accomplished if she is willing to brave into the world of computers and phones :D People can only be helped with whatever mental hesitancy or intimidation they're experiencing if they are open to challenge the object of their affliction. One can only be helped if one wants to be helped :)

    • This is the most important point. She refuses to receive help, as I just mentioned: there are times when if she wants to take the initiative but suddenly she gets blocked and loses interest.

    Thanks @abigail-dantes

    To me the number seems low. I think perhaps people may not seek help for phobias and therefore the cases are under-reported. Also, if people suffer from agoraphobia or social phobia, they are not likely to be noticed because they don't go out. These people are literally hidden from view.

    After reading your piece I looked up some material about phobias (yes, you got me interested). Found a great article. It suggests an occurrence somewhere in the 12% range. The article was written in response to a case that had been undiagnosed for maybe 50 years. The patient suffered from tomophobia, which is very specific: fear of invasive medical procedures. If the individual hadn't needed medical care, this case never would have been discovered.

    I wish I could help your mother...I'm quite old and find electronic devices enrich my life. Same for my husband.

    I think it's wonderful (as @abigail-dantes says) that you are willing to reach out to your mom. Perhaps if you explain the problem in terms of your own fear, that you fear losing contact with her, maternal instincts might win the day. In that way, she is in control and helping her son. Moms are really susceptible to the needs of their children :)

    Good luck... again, let me say that this is a helpful article. Many people may have family or friends with this issue and your article increases understanding.

    Well done Carlos!

    Phobias are pretty hard and can turn your life to hell. I know people who have comparable problems.

    Thanks for the honest and very personal article.

    Good luck to your mother.



    Thank you chapp for reading my content.

    Wish me a lot of luck and many positive vibes so that I can make my mother change and let her help herself.

    When I leave I don't know how long I won't see her :(

    Yes, that's definitely really complicated. I had similar feelings when I left Germany and lived in Australia. Where are you going too again?

    I'm going to Colombia for a few months. Then to Chile and the truth is that I don't know how long I'll be gone, probably several years.

    The economic and social situation of my country is already unsustainable.

    Let's continue in discord!

    To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.

    Brought to you by @tts. If you find it useful please consider upvoting this reply.

    Hello Carlos, I am a social worker with a systemic integrative background. I work a lot with different people, young and old. Your story about your mother ... hmm...

    It is honourable that you want to take responsibility. But to recommend therapy to parents is very thin ice.

    Are there other family members or friends besides you who live nearby if your mother lived alone? How good is your mother at organizing support - on a scale of 1-10 (1 = very bad, 10 = very good)? How big is her circle of friends and acquaintances? Are you embedded in a social environment? Is your mother healthy and has no physical difficulties? At 55 she is still quite young.

    Your mother works as an engineer and seems to be able to do her job, even without modern telephone communication. That's good. As long as at work she does it well and nobody complains, she has no serious reason except for a worried son :)

    Who is most worried that your mother will stay alone?

    How great is your own fear that if you go away, she will feel alone or will not be able to cope? On a scale of 1-10 (1 = very small, 10 = very large). Who else is worried?

    As your mum is able to calculate, read and write, she will also be able to do her banking. If nobody would help any more, she would have to learn to do things in a new way. Often people are lazy and only make a change when there is no other way. Your mother's refusal to make friends with modern technology may have other reasons, unconscious reasons or reasons she doesn't want to discuss with you.

    My own mother could never drive a car, use a computer and only calculate, read and write at fourth-grade level. She couldn't do banking later and couldn't take care of written and official matters when she got older. However, she lived embedded in a community and it was my brothers and sisters nearby who took care of everything, including neighbours, but by then she was already over 80. She had otherwise taken care of herself quite well.

    As far as your mother sleeps well, eats well, has a social life and a job, your mother seems to me to lead a life that is not so unusual.

    She doesn't need to leave her usual way of communicating. I think you can respect that. Some people feel too harassed to have to use the technology. If she just doesn't want you to show her this one thing - online banking - you should let go of the matter and just help her as long as you're available. Then your mother will have to get along and maybe you should trust her.

    From what I assume or sense is that you may be worried for how you yourself feel about your leaving plans and the sense of security you might lack therefore. ...

    Greetings from Germany

    Are there other family members or friends besides you who live nearby if your mother lived alone? How good is your mother at organizing support - on a scale of 1-10 (1 = very bad, 10 = very good)? How big is her circle of friends and acquaintances? Are you embedded in a social environment? Is your mother healthy and has no physical difficulties? At 55 she is still quite young.

    • If I have several relatives close to her, I don't have to worry about that part, I know they will be looking after her. In the same way my mother is young and independent. Her circle of friends is big, she is very extrovert and as a teacher she knows a lot of people.

    Your mother works as an engineer and seems to be able to do her job, even without modern telephone communication. That's good. As long as at work she does it well and nobody complains, she has no serious reason except for a worried son :)

    • I think I'm worrying too much even more than usual... jejeje :P

    Who is most worried that your mother will stay alone?

    • Also my sisters are worried.

    How great is your own fear that if you go away, she will feel alone or will not be able to cope? On a scale of 1-10 (1 = very small, 10 = very large). Who else is worried?

    • The problem is that today we need a lot of these tools to solve certain problems and my mother only trusts my sisters and me, so not being able to use the technology could be frustrated and stressed a lot.

    My mother is independent, capable, intelligent, but she has limitations in that sense. She can't drive a cell phone or a computer, she really panics.

    I worry that I won't be able to communicate with her often. I'm well aware that this problem is not a limiting factor in her daily tasks and it's not bad, but being away and not being able to communicate with her can be difficult for both of us.

    Also, when she needs to do something with the computer she comes to us "her kids" and if we can't help her right now she tends to get angry, to be aggressive and even because I can't help her she stops talking to me for weeks (it's happened to me several times).

    It is not easy to fathom the complex backgrounds of behaviour in relationships between parents and children. It can be an unconscious strategy of your mother to be "helpless" so that there are reasons why her children should visit her. Some parents have a strategy of making themselves indispensable throughout their lives so that their children still come to them in adulthood to solve a problem. Others bind their children to themselves because, conversely, they want to claim their help. Often, it's a mixture of both.

    Everything is just a means to keep the connection going. Which means is preferred is a personal matter. It may be that your mother does not agree with the fact that her children do not live near her (or a part of her does not want this, while another part understands it). She'll learn and accept it over time when you do not worry so much.

    Since your mother lives otherwise her life very well, her defense against technology is not a pathological matter, if you ask me. She behaves like many other people with anger when something is denied her. She punishes you with ignorance when you have not given her what she wanted.

    Does it work? Are you angry too and have a guilty conscience?

    If it is effective, your mother has no reason to change her strategy. When her punishment produces you trying to connect with her, you prove her right.

    This is how it presents itself to me: The more you want to bring her to something that she herself rejects so strongly, the more it intensifies a relationship between you. Your - and your mother's - emotional participation ensures that no one forgets the other. It may hurt if she doesn't talk to you for weeks, but she can be sure that you will come back sometime and be full of worry.

    If "worry" is the strongest thing that always brings you closer to her, she would be "unwise" to give up this means. So it may be that she would let go of her helplessness if she would recognize or get the certainty from you that you think of her or are lovingly connected to her even when she is well.

    People mistakenly think that when they are well, no one cares about them anymore. They interpret missing contact with indifference. So it also depends on you: Are you relieved when she gets along alone? Then you might signal to her that you are only fulfilling a duty when she needs your help. If, however, you are happy for her that she is independent and that she can feel this, you give her your trust. Conversely, you need her trust if she has to imagine that you will soon go further away and get along well.

    As I see it, you are both in a process of detachment that is not complete yet. She can let you go in peace and you can let her be in peace.

    Show her and assure her that you will do the things she asks you to do when you are available. Don't build any inner resistance to this, it just makes it worse. If you fully agree to help her whenever she asks you, something will change between you.

    Just think of yourself: When you ask someone to be of service to you and he get's all worried or anxious, how does it feel? Don't you just want something to be done and not discuss it in length and width?

    My brother once had a similar problem with my mother. She was always in his ears with things she wanted done. When he came home, she was already waiting to intercept him. Every day he was annoyed by it. I said to him: "Agree inwardly and give her your full attention in the first ten minutes of your coming home. Respond to her wishes. Then she will let you go and be satisfied." He did it this way and it brought about a much more harmonious relationship between them.

    I wish you all the best.

    I had not seen it that way, I think everything you say is very logical, the truth makes sense to me! Our relationship is good, maybe his way of seeing the technology and the behavior he has towards me when he doesn't get what he wants is the product of something that happened in the past "but I don't remember very well, I think I should sit down and think about bit and try to remember something. " But it can also be a way of self-defense to separate from your children. Mmmmmm I don't know!

    In the same way, I will consider his words and I hope that in this new stage of our lives things can go well.

    Thank you very much for your wonderful words...@erh.germany


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