Steemit and "The Crab Mentality"

in #steemit7 years ago (edited)

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This post is set up as "Decline Payout", which means I'm not taking anything from the reward pool. However, if you feel like this post is worthy of something, you can transfer me whatever amount of Steem/SBD you feel appropriate, using the memo "crab mentality sucks". It's my own experiment here, on Steemit. I want to see how likely is for people to reward other people content from their own pocket. I will update the post with the total I'm receiving at the end of the article (you could always look for these transactions in the blockchain yourself, if you want to track it down).

What Is Crab Mentality?

According to Wikipedia:

"Crab mentality, sometimes referred to as crabs in the bucket (also barrel, basket or pot), is a way of thinking best described by the phrase, "if I can't have it, neither can you." The metaphor refers to a bucket of crabs. Individually, the crabs could easily escape from the bucket, but instead they grab at each other in a useless "king of the hill" competition which prevents any from escaping and ensures their collective demise. The analogy in human behavior is claimed to be that members of a group will attempt to negate or diminish the importance of any member who achieves success beyond the others, out of envy, spite, conspiracy, or competitive feelings, to halt their progress."

The highlighting in the last sentence is mine.

Now, if you're on Steemit for more than 3 weeks, you may have an epiphany reading this. And the epiphany will be like: "so that's what you actually call Steemit? Crab mentality?". Yes, unfortunately, during the last few weeks, Steemit became emblematic for this definition.

There are flagging "cartels" formed primarily in the chat, which are hunting authors who are making more than the average and punishing them by downvoting their content.

There is also a so called experiment running now which claims that whales are not going to vote, leaving dolphins and minnows more room to play, but it is not endorsed by all the players, so some whales are still voting. Under this pretext, the initiators of the experiment, @abit and @smooth (and for a while @beniesanders / @nextgencrypto / @engagement / @thecyclist - all accounts belonging to the same person) are countervoting these votes. Which, as you already saw, created a mess comparable only with the one you can experience in a barrel, basket or pot, by a bunch of crabs trying to escape in the search of the mythical reward pool.

It's not very nice living in such a barrel, you know. It's kind of nasty, to be honest. As a matter of fact, it's absolutely frightening. You get punished for writing content that other players are enjoying. Not to mention the fact that the very value proposition onf Steemit, which is "blog and get paid" is a total lie. That line should read: "blog and maybe you will get paid, if you will form alliances in the chat, or something like that".

And the most incredible thing is how some of the crabs are adjusting to the situation, calling it "normal". It's ok for people to downvote other people just to equalize the pot. Why some people should have more than others? I will vote my stake however I see fit, without any moral or ethical guidelines. All these sentences are part of the crab mentality.

What's The Alternative?

As I said, for many of the crabs, this is the only reality they know. It's hard to explain them that things can be different, if all they've been exposed to is like this. They may even feel that you're lying to them, that you try to fool them.

But there are alternatives. There are always alternatives. There are always choices.

One of the alternatives is to accept that we are different. Not only fundamentally different, like human beings, with different skills and experiences, but also we are different in every moment of our lives. Sometimes we may create content that is very likeable, sometimes not. Today we may have a good day, but tomorrow not. Today it's ok to get $150 because some big player voted us, and for the rest of the month we may have less than $2 for every post we publish.

Or it may be normal like somebody who is consistently producing quality content (content which is enjoyed, which is useful, which is relevant) to receive more than the average. Because their writing skills are over the average.

If you allow that difference to exist, you open the space for your own growth and for the growth of others. If you confine your potential reward, to a fixed amount for everybody, you become a prisoner of your own choice, a crab in a barrel, condemned to grab down other crabs and equalize the reward pool for ever. It's a dead end.

I know, allowing that space to exist is difficult. Because of the fear. Fear of "draining the reward pool".

But it's exactly the feeling of fear which gives birth to envy, spite, conspiracy, or competitive feelings, to all these emotions that are creating the frightening environment in which we all live now.

The other alternative is generosity, compassion and the wish for others to be successful.

You can't understand this if you're in a barrel, fighting to keep other people down.

And unless you take a leap of faith, unless you decide to stop that stupid fight, allowing everybody to receive whatever he or she deserves, you will be forever confined in that pot.


Edit: the rewards for this post, manually sent to my account, are listed below:

ContributorValue
@denmarkguy3 SBD
@trevor.george10 STEEM

At a price of $0.18/Steem, this amounts to about $4.8. Which is pretty much the same I would get in liquid rewards by looking at the votes I got so far.

Anyway, all contributions have been returned with a 10% premium, as you can see below. Giving is receiving :)

image source - Pixabay


I'm a serial entrepreneur, blogger and ultrarunner. You can find me mainly on my blog at Dragos Roua where I write about productivity, business, relationships and running. Here on Steemit you may stay updated by following me @dragosroua.


Dragos Roua


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"Crab mentality" reminds me of a very simplistic dynamic that often happens in groups and workplaces... someone decides they want to lose weight and get fit, but even though all their co-workers say "Way to Go!" they passive-aggressively push for failure by suddenly bringing lots of donuts, pizza, fattening snack food and "reasons" to go to happy hour rather than go for a run.

Finding the right mix of "merit based" and "seniority based" has to be a tricky balance, I won't deny that. From what I have seen in my seven weeks on Steemit, part of the problem here seems to be that there's no clear mission statement defining what Steemit IS. Sure "it's a social blogging/content platform wrapped around an alt coin, all blackhain based, with expansion space for lots of exciting apps we haven't yet created."

Sure, that's a nice concept; a nice ideology but what does that functionally look like? "Facebook on the blockchain?" Or is it"a repository of high quality information for people moving towards the New Economy?" Or is it "a social content outlet for creative writers, bloggers, artists, musicians and other creative types?" Or maybe it's "a hangout for anarchists and blockchainiacs?" What is considered "valuable," and what is not? Where's the benchmark metric against which we evaluate whether we're going in the right or wrong direction?

Or are we just tossing a handful of grass clipping up in the breeze to see where they might land?

Saying "all of the above" is really not a valid answer... and saying "this is UNIQUE, nothing like this has ever been done before!" is also a platitude/copout.

I'm not a developer or cryptogeek... I'm just a content creator. So I can only speak from my perspective... and what I DO know is that if Steemit is to be some kind of "social content" venue, we (a) need more social features, (b) need to place more value on manual peer curation, (c) need to accept that if we want a QUALITY venue that attracts people, this does have to be somewhat of a meritocracy (cream floats, junk sinks), and (d) we have to be very cautious about how the platform is opened to the greater world. The long term survival rate (not "success" rate) of user-generated content sites with rewards is about 3%, because too many people want "money for nothing," and host sites are too chickenshit (pardon my bluntness!) to install curation algorithms biased towards rewarding quality.

Thanks for an interesting and thoughtful post... check your "tip jar."

Makes me wonder if it's possible to implement not only a "tip jar" function, but to somehow tie people's voluntary contributions into part of the algorithm for the tip jar owner's overall reputation...

The Steem Whitepaper seems to want the crab bucket: https://steem.io/SteemWhitePaper.pdf

The goal of building a community currency is to get more “crabs in the bucket”. Going to extreme measures to eliminate all abuse is like attempting to put a lid on the bucket to prevent a few crabs from escaping and comes at the expense of making it harder to add new crabs to the bucket. It is sufficient to make the walls slippery and give the other crabs sufficient power to prevent others from escaping.

Also, many people don't see what we see: that there is quality and it's not simply subjective. So they will ignore that criteria ;)

Didn't remember that from the Whitepaper but it all starts to make sense now :)

you've missed the best part, but please as long as you are here we are all happy :) would you like a tip, a pat on the shoulder, maybe a "Thank you nice quality post!!, Upvoted, Resteemed, :D " see @ krnel is here :) we are all happy we are so connected socially, with everything being recorded for our good :) and yeah the superficial qualities rewards breed :) well I know why I'm here and I will be as long as there are people like you :), annoying others whenever possible(bacchist :|) and keeping the not so easy task of not contradicting my own opinions :D
++ and not posting my comments on time either :D

anyways, sarcasm won't fix the problem, that is a normal thing it seems, most people don't care about your character your personality, "YOU" have to deal with everything, nobody will listen to you, they just like to hear you speak their mind, whatever you say gets bent through their own prism and if it doesn't concern them personally, nobody cares. It's strange how people are concerned with personalities, but only with their own, most people care about you as long as you do "work" for them :|

i don't see steemit helping with cognitive biases, nor should it, I searched on the wikipedia and found a loong list, +300 at least, so the idea here is what is defined in the whitepaper, read between the lines, it's nothing new, just another facebook :) ok it's a lot of things but nothing in general, I'm off to reread all the comments :D

my 1.06 SBD were donated to the null account the day before you made this post, I do care about you, but I can only send you around, wow my acc actually has value :D time to do some steeming work :D this shit pays after 3 months :D I'm cashing out when steem becomes a dollar :D again :D

I think actually most people do think posts should be voted on quality, and that this quality is not simply subjective, though because they will all differ on their judgements it clearly is.

Again, you'll have to work this into the system for it to matter to all the people.

Also, nice to see you around again @krnel 😉

Thanks ;)

Thanks for the contribution, you should look into your wallet as well. Giving is receiving! :)

Thank you! :-)

You're very welcome :)

I do somewhat agree man...but to be honest, ive waited and done this telling people they can donate for a long while and to be honest i have had only a small handful before steem.

The crab trap is a cool kind of illusion that makes it more stable by ensuring people can give away tokens to those in whom they see value. I agree with you that if humans realized how easy it is to give if everyone gives...the world would be a wonderful place.

I think i have found a solution though :)

Care to share your solution?

The free market is all i can say at this point. But you will get it when its done :)

Now you made me curious :)

Ill say this much: what is it that we would like to see changed in steem?

Id say that we want whales to stop powering down so heavily at low prices. And we want whales to be incentivized to not vote themselves...but direct their voting power toward others (kind of as proxies). Well im going to need to leave it here. But lets say there are some cool ways of accomplishing this. :)

I'd be interested to see how you propose Steem should be changed to incorporate moral absolutism and quality control.

Probably most simply just removing down votes / flags? I actually think you could get a lot of support for that if you went about it the right way. Another possibility is some way to insure power comes with responsibility (still thinking about that).

There is a proposal, look for a post that starts with YAVAP on my timeline (I'm on mobile, can't look up the link right now).

Oh yea, here, I remember it and my take was in favor of trying it. Because it's such a radical change I think this would be perfect for a fully experimental approach like @clayop suggested here. Get public majority support, try it out, review and either keep or revert.

You got a lot of opposition to the idea as you presented it, and the white paper lays out Steemit's initial position as dismissing micropayments, some of that which is reiterated in the comments. It would be good to see a version 2 of it addressing what was raised in the comments. I know you addressed some of it but why not refine it anyway?

Also side note after re-read, you must be a Nassim Taleb fan 😉

I like his work, I can't deny that :). I will think about posting a refined proposal of YAVAP, thanks for your interest in it.

leaving this here might be on topic, https://steemit.com/blockchain/@kurtbeil/blockchain-ethics-and-oligarchs there is a video there on ethics ad responsibility, please check it even thou it would be better if the "whales" were the first people there :D

There are many things that will curve out of existence with time. The issues we have now (centralized voting power, the flagging, multiple and unclear currencies, crypto rewards etc.) and which seem big to us will be insignificant in 2-5 years when Steemit and he environment matures.

There are main issues that are being spotted and potential solutions experimented. At the end of the day, you can't please everyone and I'm thankful that those who can do something about the issues that exist, do it, even if it hurts others on the short term. Marie Curie died for crying out loud.. and we all benefit from her findings. Let's not get butthurt for the 50$ someone else's post has reached today or every day. Things will even out with time.

Directly incentivised Social media is still a rather new thing and it touches something that is very sensitive for 99% of us: money. For now, there isn't any other SM platform out there that is paying general, anonymous users for their creations, in any nature they come and the fact that a post of ours isn't doing as great as some other's, oh well, suck it up and move on. Yes, there are some heavily supported posters at the moment, nobody can lie about that, but as you are saying, let's not cling onto 'Why the same authors get rewarded constantly and I don't'. Move on, keep at it, and what you make is what you make if that's your goal.

Everything that is happening right now with Steem(it) is at an experimental level. Our posts are experiments. The mechanisms are experimental, that's why we have so many changes, so many trials from so many people and sub-communities. I'm not saying all the rewards have been spread correctly, yes there have been and still are people who are cheating the system, but there is one thing that most of us lack: patience. Just have patience, and the perfect incentivised Social media platform will be available for us soon. Whether it is Steem, on Steemit, Busy or any other interface, whether it is any other platform out there.

Agree about the experiment stage we're in right now. But even that stage should be approached with care, IMHO, otherwise there's no use in this experiment.

First of all I will say, I am not a believer in 'everybody should get an equal amount'. That would be ridiculous because some people put very little effort into what they do, while others put a great deal of effort. Though you also need to take into account the effort of engagement. Some people might make more on a post that took less effort to create simply because of the other efforts they have made to write thoughtful, encouraging, helpful comments to others in the community.
While I agree the initiation of the whale experiment was executed poorly since no one knew what the hell was going on and therefore it just seemed they were suddenly being attacked, I think the reason you've seen a change in the outlook of the experiment is not because they're in a crab mentality, it's because it is now understood, and people are excited about their voting power actually amounting to something.
Remember, before this began a lot of people were angry and upset over steemguild and whale autovoting, of the same people being in the top trending regardless of the quality of their content.
I have almost exactly the same amount of people voting on my stuff as before, the only difference is I no longer receive the whale votes...and my last two posts have made three times as much as before. Because the people who read/support my posts have voting power that is worth more than before and they upvote at a hundred percent rather than the autowhale votes that were at a much smaller percent, plain and simple.
I wish that you would have written a post about something else, I would have been happy to send you steem. But this unfortunately just feels like you've taken on a negative mindset that you not only don't wish to change, but you also want to spread. I think people have grown weary of feeling negative about steemit, with one drama after another for a month, and having a change right now is just what most people needed to renew their faith in the platform.
I would actually say that crab mentality applies more to people who find change difficult, who don't like to have things shaken up a bit.

On a personal note, I would challenge you to alter your experiment by writing a post that has nothing whatsoever to do with your feelings about steemit, but rather something that you enjoy and then ask what you've asked in this post. I know I for one would send you steem if you did that.

I would do this, curious about it too. Thanks :)

I am really glad to hear that! I refrain from powering up a portion of steem for just these types of events :) And I apologize if my response seemed harsh in any way, as I believe you are a good man and I still appreciate the challenge you initiated in January that has continued to positively effect my posting habits to this day.

No worries :) I do not experience any burnout, by the way. Life has been a bit bumpy during the last few months, but it's all for the good. As for Steemit, I've been, as you said - and I thank you for acknowledging that - a positive contributor to the platform. I'm just exercising my judgment towards putting more resources into something that took a downward trend. One thing that I harshly learned during the last few months is that I need to have more clearly defined limits in everything I do or I commit myself to do.

On a personal note, I would challenge you to alter your experiment by writing a post that has nothing whatsoever to do with your feelings about steemit, but rather something that you enjoy and then ask what you've asked in this post. I know I for one would send you steem if you did that.

Really great idea and solid advice.

I appreciate that. I have noticed a number of people shifting focus to things other than the good/bad/ of steemit, and it's a refreshing change :)

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Until some things really straighten up (proper tag usage, subcommunities), the targeted audience of your (my, everyone's) general blog posts will be lost in a sea of other posts. For example, I'd like to read and write about IoT, but this isn't the time or the place to do it efficiently so we are constrained either by exploring the Steem(it) experiment, writing about it, or few other topics that are already established like crypto, photography, or fiction...

I can't agree with that, since I've literally only written posts about steemit probably four times since I began here three months ago. It really has more to do with getting to know people, engagement is truly key.

I know what you're saying, people that you know and that know you will support your writing no matter what it is (in theory), but that's not the point. It works at the level Steem is right now, since there's maybe about 3,000 users really active around. The true success is for you to be able to reach an audience that is directly interested in what you're saying (topic, idea, solution) or for you to get specific information that is in your interest.
Yes, you can build a following with people that have similar interests and check out the same topics but that is scarce right now and it drives a lot of people away due to not matching.

You may be right, though I would say constant posts about steemit's issues would be something that would not appeal to new users. When I first joined it happened to be at a time when people were posting a huge variety of different topics, which is what made this place exciting to me. And if the number of users did drastically increase so would the likelihood of there being more people interested in the topics you write about.

True, a negative attitude is not something that will get any of us anywhere. We can treat issues with responsibility and transparency in an effort to find solutions. Directly said: constant bitching about Steemit won't help :)

Ah, yep, haha! :) Thanks for the follow, followed you back ;)

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