Brief Update on Reputation Score

in steemit •  3 years ago 

Many of you may have noticed the recent updates to Steemit. Among those updates are the addition of a single digit score next to your name. My score is an 8.

Reputation scores work like earthquake richter scales, they operate on log base 10. In other words a reputation level 8 is 10 times stronger than reputation level 7. Likewise, -8 is 10 times more negative than -7.

Those with weaker reputations are unable to harm the reputation of those with strong reputation.

This score is a simple algorithm that could be changed at any time and will be tweaked. If there are problems with it or if it starts to be gamed, then we will fix it.

We have already identified one bug that will be fixed at the next update.

If you feel you have been unfairly punished by the current algorithm, then you can appeal on slack. Less than 2% of all accounts are currently being filtered due to reputation.

ReputationNumber of Accounts
91
886
7712
61500
51617
41910
31780
21609
134,455
-1106
-2120
-398
-4193
-5116
-6203
-716
-81

The lowest rep is @wang, being the first bot got him singled out by a lot of downvoters over time. We appriciate the service wang provided and he earned some good money from his efforts.

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LOL... I've noticed @stellabelle out on her own with a 9. She is indeed The Oracle of the Steemit Matrix!

we have 1 week users account with reputation of (11) !!! Must be a bug!

@dantheman how is it possible to have a reputation of (11) eleven ???
accounts @carlyadams and @cryptogal

and they are new accounts (about one week)
I think on your algo you must use time also! It make no sense a new user has a reputation more than (6) six (example)

I love it! She has been a great contributor and helped build this place early on.

then you can appeal on slack

Perhaps this should be updated prior to the ability to edit being removed? You guys announced that the Slack channel would be nixed within a week and most everyone has moved to http://steemit.chat.

Yeah, aren't we all moving to steemit.chat or will some remain on slack?

She is Steem incarnate =P The physical embodiment of everything that makes this place great:

  • Honesty
  • Compassion
  • Helpful
  • Fun

When something gets me angry and I want to rage-post, I try to remember WWSBD? (What Would Stella-Belle Do?) Break out that RAY OF HOPE yellow! XD

She's the reason I'm a 7.

Lol me too.

This is very encouraging for a minnow like me!

Same, haha love the new rankings!

I was a secret writer (ousted by @earnest if anyone wants to know) but she has made a platform that everyone can use. Hopefully this new idea for a marketplace will add as much value as @stellabelle has to the community. Take a look at this proposal if you have the time Decentralized Steemit Marketplace

Already stated at my post an hour earlier

https://steemit.com/steem/@bullionstackers/can-someone-explain

thanks to her I got here pretty early too. Could have gotten earlier if only i had listen :) Always thankful for that to @stellabelle

True, she has been looking carefully at good content and upvoted properly.

can we get a nine?

@dantheman , thank you for this. I have been in the IT industry for many years and one thing that I am sure we have all learnt is to listen to the end users and then enhance our software. You guys are doing an excellent job in listening and adjusting. Let's see how this change impacts. It makes a lot of sense. Good luck with the platform...

@dantheman I see whether reputation will boost one's popularity here at least get an award or something Upvote really appreciated their posts, if it is too weak against the pope I think the correct word @wang Farewell, So Much Hate

I concur, it makes sense and I am of the same opinion of @jacor that you listening makes a HUGE difference. We know you don't have to, but because you do, you are earning serious respect which translates to trust.

I had to learn to listen as I thought I always new best, but now I am a very good listener. Except if you ask my wife :) but that's a different conversation.

everything remains on the blockchain... be careful with your statements :)

One of the first things I posted about was the mayor of my hometown, Kalamazoo, MI, being a pedophile. He attempted to solicit me for sex when I was 14 and molested many of my friends. I like that it's there forever. Bobby Hopewell destroyed my life. I need a voice!

I have added a suggestion to the reputation system in my latest post which I believe would bring even more equality to the system https://steemit.com/steemit/@kuriko/dantheman-my-suggestion-to-the-new-reputation-system

Weee, im i have 7 reputation score, same like you @jacor :D
I love this update, it have made a lot of thing clear, and the additional bonus is that we cant instantly see if someone has good feedback over here, or he is rather a spammer or hater.
BTW. @stellabelle you are the only one here who got 9, congratz!!!!

@dantheman I've tried to put out good content, and have fun with a new social media platform, and I come back to find I can't even type a blog for anyone to see! Can I get some help here! Pleases!!

share it everywhere bro. That, plus use of key words plus a good tittle and a great thumbnail.

One does not just get popular. One must promote and build a reputation and following.

  ·  3 years ago (edited)

As i was meet stellabelle with her insights here etc, i doubt she will be happy with being the only person with REP. She is damn deserving this but as i was noticing her attitude...she won't want to be in focus like this :) just post and write amazing stories. Adorable!!

Anyway i love her posts and crazy but respectful and funny but also tough stories! Doh :) Great to have you here @stellabelle


Hopefully you'll get my message, PITA for me to express my emotional feelings without graphics :/

You are correct! It does put me on the spot, and I'm used to melting into the crowd....I always avoid managerial, supervisory roles because I simply wanted to be left alone in the corner to daydream! Your assessment was dead one. Thanks dear @cass!
And great to have you here making awesome stuff......your wallpaper is to die for.

you had a 90 and now you have a 74? are people trying to bring you down?

no the algorithm changed, that's all

well, I hope the algorithm change isn't too bad.... I really hope that people are not too limited.... the reputation seems to be partly like a popularity contest... like a poll.... but it may not be that simple... but as long as people can compete fairly but not too fairly

Hi @dantheman.
I am not BOT.
But, You Down Vote to my comment. so my Reputation -6.
Please look URL goo.gl/OzORZ4
and please look my posts.
Please help me

I upvoted you to fix the rep.

Thank you Vote. And, thank you for help.
It has been restored "6" in you guys, thanks.
This kindness will never forget.

I was downloaded to for using steemit tag to talk about steemit and the @steemcleaners bot downvoted me because i talked about steemit with a steemit tag

@dantheman.
He is really in trouble.
Please give help him.

Quick update, if we allowed 0 then there would be 32,000 users with 0 and 2000 users with 1. We will be tweaking the algorithm to enable 0.

we should do that

This was a needed feature but how does it actually work, for example: if you get downvoted by @wang who has a lot of SP but low reputation will that downvote not affect you?... it won´t affect you in a way that your comments could still show but your rewards will still go down?..

Correct, @wang can still impact your payouts on the posts he downvotes, but he will not impact your reputation.

  ·  3 years ago (edited)

Flagged for platform updates draining the same pool that rewards all platform users (and disproportionately since unlike any other content they are relevant to the entire user base). IMO the pool is better used to draw new content and users to the platform. Good update and the hopefully the reputation system will improve the platform, so not downvoting on merit.

For platform updates please consider using the blockchain feature that was added to disable rewards on a specific post.

Yeah, @dantheman why not display updates in the green box that was used to inform people about important information about account recovery and all.

@smooth said we should disable rewards while taking in a reward for this comment of $1.60 as of right now 2017-06-24 Saturday Saigon time 6 PM: two faced

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

You realize: a) there is no feature implemented to disable rewards on comments. b) this was a year ago c) the decline rewards feature is now being used for platform updates so apparently they decided I was right after all.

@smooth, you may or may not be using that excuse or fact as a justification for getting rewards and getting rewards is not really a bad thing in my book but I thought that it was bad in your book. Regardless of whether or not comments had rewards or the ability to op out of rewards, it does not totally excuse you. I am trying to turn your own code of ethics and morale back on you. In my book, I believe in making money. I love capitalism and competition. I like money. I like making profits. But in your mind, maybe you hate money or something. You can live in your world if you want. You have that freedom. You try to tell people that they should not make money and then you make money while you tell people not to make money. That is irony. It is also lazy not to find a way to op out of rewards later if you truly believe it is so bad to make money in certain situations. I believe in making money and you believe that money is bad in some situations. You made an excuse which could be understandable, but it is still kind of transparent or muddy. Maybe, you do this kind of thing sometimes. I know many people say one thing but do a different thing all together. I cannot say that is your character or lack of integrity but I can say it is possible.

Hi @smooth I have been trying to contact you re: SCC in Chat. If you're having problems with Chat you can contact me on my Facebook page please. Thanks

The lowest rep is @wang, being the first bot got him singled out by a lot of downvoters over time. We appriciate the service wang provided and he earned some good money from his efforts.

2nd that - wang the friendly bot :P

Do I understand correctly that it serves as an indicator and don't impact any calculations or publishing rights? Based on the code current algo counts only following and mute marks. Does that true?

Reputation score is a great step forward, I was just discussing the idea in a post yesterday, I'm happy to see wheels were already in motion to get it implemented.

I think it would be good to add a badge or a symbol for each rating. It would make it more visually appealing.

@dantheman
Holy crap my rep is high!

http://steemwhales.com/williambanks

This is a good step and you have gamified it a little which will reach the larpers. So good work!

I have concerns though.
I'm not complaining about this, but I've been here a couple weeks max. I can see someone gaming this. They hire someone who is well spoken and compelling to come in and build rep on the account, then sell the account for mega bucks.

To solve this you should add an exponential decay function based on time, so older rep counts less than newer rep. You should also allow accounts with negative rep to trend back towards some zeropoint after a "chill out" period.

Since it's exponential rather than logarithmic, the effect of say taking a vacation won't be as much as suddenly turning into a flaming jerk. But it will still encourage people to not rest on their laurels too long and to keep posting good compelling content.

It's all about people. People go from good to bad and back again. They change over time. No one should earn a permanent high or low rep. Also if someone has a high rep and has a legitimate disagreement with someone with a low rep, they won't be able to permanently supress someone.

Thanks for listening!

agreed

I tried to increase a user reputation (-6) upvoting his post but nothing happened !!! I assume because it was after first pay out post... So because my upvote does not count as curation it does not count to increase/decrease the authors reputation either?

The post and author I wanted to upvote and increase his reputation ...
https://steemit.com/faucet/@miketr/steemfaucet-closing-now-why

Just found this site on google. Thanks for the post. This helps me to understand the philosophy behind the levels. Cheers.

I read this post and comments top to bottom.

Then I did some checking. This first "net" that skims the junk floating in the lake is indeed getting a lot of garbage. (Blatant spam, non-stop copy/paste from the internet etc).

On a quick skim down the "new", you can see who has been an established writer before, and who hasn't.

But a keen curator can also read titles, and descriptions of content, and immediately go.. Oh! That guy's a (1) and I know all he did was copy/paste a coindesk article I just finished reading.

At a glance, this is working very nicely. I'm fully aware there will still be tweaks, and adjustments. But overall, this is a really nice system. Great job.

This doesn't mean new "unestablished" users don't have a chance. It just means they are more likely to be scrutinzed a little closer until they build their reputation. (ie: post theft and repost is something that happened to stellabelle and I, on our collaborative glossary. Reputation would have fixed that immediately).

I got to catch all the reputation like Pokemon. Good game.

Some sort of feedback system definitely needed to be created (hopefully more than just a number will occur in the future. Users could be rewarded with a special color, shape or ocean fish depending on vests and reputation. It will be interesting to see more about what goes into these metrics and what will be tweaked.

great idea that many of as want to see implemented

agreed, give me a frog for #MAGA

  ·  3 years ago (edited)

@dantheman how is it possible to have a reputation of (11) eleven ???
accounts @carlyadams and @cryptogal

and they are new accounts (about one week)
I think on your algo you must use time also! It make no sense a new user has a reputation more than (6) six (example)

Does Steem Power and reputation correlate at all?

Love seeing the new features trickle in. :)

Are you able to tell us what the actual underlying metric is that reflects reputation. i.e. is it based on cumulative up votes ones received, either by a single post count average or is it through the lifetime of the user?
Is it based on something completely different?
Any insight would be nice if possible :)

It is all open source and on github.

The raw score is calculated here:
https://github.com/steemit/steem/blob/develop/libraries/plugins/follow/follow_plugin.cpp

The website interprets the raw score based on max( 1, int(log10(abs(score))) - 8 )

Thank you for the update! It's been driving me crazy all day not knowing what my score means, Hahah!! At first I thought maybe it had something to do with wallet amount, But that didn't seem to add up! I really like this system!

This is becoming like a game to me, steemit's actually kinda addicting, and that is a very good thing. Now I'm all like shit I wanna hit 8, then 9! This is super cool.

Even the updates in general have had from myself a very warm welcome, steemit is proving itself over and over again as a long term sustainable decentralized platform for social media.

These are exciting times, steemit has literally been "payout live" for under a month and the interface and usability is phenomenal. There's been a few hiccups, they've been worked out, fixed, tweaked, and a superior product has been kept in a state of evolution.

Also there's actual communication with the community on what's happening in the steemit world, which is awesome for credibility, unlike what niantic is doing lol.

agreed

Those with weaker reputations are unable to harm the reputation of those with strong reputation.

That partially make sense...
But what if many of lower reputation accounts downvote a higher reputation account? It make sense for example if 10 or more accounts of reputation of 7 votes against an account of reputation of (8) ... it should make an impact! No?

This is a positive development, IMO.

I do one potential problem though.

Stellabelle. She seems OK, but as things stand shes above the law... no one can effect her reputation.

Having users be able to have a limited effect on those of higher rank would solve this, and makes sense, IMO.

Poor wang...

checking my #

  ·  3 years ago (edited)

Damn , Wang should have the best rep , not the worst . Im rated at a 7 - Not bad?

His bot posts attracted negative attention from whales over time and only small amounts of positive attention from normal users.

To prevent the system from being arbitrary we need to have an algorithm that rates everyone "objectively".

Hi @dantheman,
You downvoted my first test post and it is the only negative vote that i have. Due to i still haven't written any complete post my score is -5 :(

Please, can you remove the negative vote? I think that people will have a bad idea of me due to the bad ranking and only for 1 negative vote.

The post is https://steemit.com/test/@spaninv/first-post

  ·  3 years ago (edited)

@dantheman The situation is worst that what i thought.

I CAN'T UPVOTE NEW POSTS DUE TO THE NEGATIVE REPUTATION SCORING!!!!

When i try it says
Transaction failed: voter->reputation >= 0:

Can you explain it please?

This is an inadvertent bug with the website that will be fixed shortly within the hour.

@dantheman have a capability to down votes (-13), I had (7) , he thought I was a bot , strike me to (-6)
Figure that out!!!

I was honestly just as suprised by that as you were. We investigated the issue and it works like this.

My upvote can take you to +6.x. You had 6 before I voted you down and 7 after I voted you up.

If you start with 6.1 and I downvote you with 6.9 then it will take you to -6 because the way log algorithms work. If I downvote you again it probably wouldn't take you to -7.

Whales can make / break small accounts that have no rep. But they cannot make accounts with rep. I doubt I could lower @stellabelle from 9 to 8 with a single vote.

Reputation is hard to earn, easy to lose.

I think is not fair. The reputation score should be 1 person = 1 vote.
Otherwise a whale could ban and forbide to upvote to any user he\she wants.

@spaninv
That amount is the balance power they return back to you, same as me.
You did not pick up the jackpot

It's Great you are implementing this , Should help people out when searching accounts , I think some whales have realised that Wang is doing a positive impact on the steemit community but it does not seem like it .

  ·  3 years ago (edited)

Does the new reputation system discourage bots? I thought my bot @twitterbot was atleast somewhat useful. (by the looks of replies, others seem to think so too) But on the most recent post it got 14 downvotes - jumping directly from +5 and landing at a whopping -6 reputation. Now none of it's past posts are showing up anywhere.

Look at this bug: reputation lvl 1 is displayed as lvl 11 =))
LINK
11LVLfd439.png

So proud to have a reputation score of 7. Already amongst the top 800 i see, and it has only been 20 days since I've joined Steemit!. Thank you so much. I am eternally grateful! :)

I guess this is implemented in the frontend, and not at the blockchain level? Maybe it doesn't matter, because it's main effect is user behavior and experience, not a permanent record of anything. Even if it is done only in the Steemit interface, alternative Steem clients will benefit from the end result, which is less unwanted content. So I won't even ask where it is implemented. Very nice!

So no more upvotes from @wang then?

How can we get a better reputation?

Here's how I did it and continue to do it: People give me grief about the posts, but if you look at my overall activity, I spend a great deal of time commenting on other people's comments. I think me and tuck spend the most time commenting, and reading the threads within posts. I try to comment on many people's comments within my own posts and also in others (I've slowed, some, because of sheer content and dwindling time). I try really hard to add something to others. I don't always succeed, and sometimes I do have ego problems, like everyone else, but each day I do tell myself this one thing, I say Leah, "clean your slate. You have nothing just like before, now go and find the ones who need your help. Refocus your mind on them, thereby removing your own ego." It doesn't always work, but it helps to clear my vision, and refocus me on my first initial mission when I got in: redistribution of wealth and finding solutions for people who are struggling to get free of the Matrix. This is indeed my goal. Has been since day 1. Every day I have the privelege of paying someone else SD. If you look at what I give away to others you will realize that trust is the most essential part.

Thank you! Nobody better to get advice from!

gracias @stellabelle en realidad a mi mi condición me parece injusta yo tenia una reputación 5 y ahora quede en -6 por culpa de una persona de verdad eso es injusticia ahora a comenzar desde 0 y construir algo de la nada a veces me dan ganas de eliminar mi cuenta y crear una nueva

this is the greatest I have read until now! +100

agreed, each day, we got wonderful opportunities

Earn up votes from anyone with positive reputation.

dan, one question, i think you implemented that 4 post limit per day.
i usually comment more than 20times a day to discuss with others. it that limit going away, because it hurts people who try to help others, or discuss topics with others.

through the reporting system, there is no need for the post limit anymore, am i correct?

Very good! I assume this is implemented as part of the Steemit.com front-end?

Could you provide a link to the specific spot in the code on github?

I guess reputation is implememt in the blockchain level, not in front end, it should be deterministric.

Problem with a one-size-fits-all (i.e. globalized) reputation metric is that it must assume that the wisdom of the crowd is unified. In cases where there are differing preferences, then wisdom of the crowd is either impotent or worse become censorship. In obvious cases where we all agree that @wang is a bot and we don't want to see his automated, redundant content then reputation works as an anti-spam filter. But I presume spammers can become more sophisticated so that we can't readily detect their numerous accounts and less redundant content. So I think ultimately only an individualized relevance metric will be useful. Your reputation algorithm I guess is needed to force spammers to become more sophisticated (i.e. more relevant), as long as it doesn't inadvertently cause censhorship. My concern with a globalized metric is it can become a tool of politically correct speech enforcement.

@ned and @smooth and @smooth.witness downvoted this and look at what happened! =O

I wonder if they're just testing it.

May be the case. Though just goes to show you the power of whales.

It is interesting because of what they voted for. Article carries useful information. There are many articles, with the worst content, for which the "whales" do not hesitate to vote.

A scale with positive and negative numbers that doesn't contain 0?

-3 to 3 are effectively 0. It is an artefact of how we derive the score that makes +/- 0 an odd case.

I asked some questions in my post, would be appreciated if we can get some more answers
https://steemit.com/steemit/@royaltiffany/steemland-reputation-system

Thank you .

I think reputation is a really great thing to add here. In theory, this will allow for people who have (up to this point) been abusing privileges to start changing their reputation for the better. Awesome idea...I love it.

Very good movement for steemit!

But we need more details how the reputation is calculated in math for better user experience.

And it should be more clearly explained that this reputation does not influenced on users' earnings - nor on curator reward or author rewards. It is only has visual effect on steemit.com site, but not represented on STEEM blockchain. Isn't it?

If high reputable member votes you, then his vote will make immediate impact on your reputation and if some minnaws upvote you, then it might take 100s of votes. At-least that's what I understood from OP and some comments of @dantheman

  ·  3 years ago (edited)

"This score is a simple algorithm that could be changed at any time and will be tweaked. If there are problems with it or if it starts to be gamed, then we will fix it", was indeed a bit vague. I'll go bet on Augur that there is a market for this idea: There are always two posts. A technical one in the speak for cryptoland with the basic functions and algorithms and one in political laypeople lingo.

Thanks @dantheman , I believe this update will be for the good of steemit and bloggers

I guess 6 isn't all that bad... :D

And again you all have taken the concerns of all of us posters and have come up with a brilliant solution to the bot problem! Time and time again you all put forth innovative and quick solutions to seemingly major problems. Bravo again @dantheman.

I think this was a needed step in improving the ecosystem. Well done @dantheman

I'm really loving the reputation system and auto-hiding, thanks for all your hard work @dan and team ! I don't understand how I'm rep 7 but I'm not going to argue :D

whale swim here

Love the addition. Seems to work nicely so far...

You mentioned the Slack channel.
Any chance of the invite script to this coming back?
Less than 10% of the community has access, while the rest does not...
Or is that the intention? ;)
Anyway. Thanks again!

The Slack channel has been replaced with https://steemit.chat/ 😊

Hi @dantheman,
I am not a bot. But, you downvoted on my comment in this post Can you have a look and undo it? Thanks.
flagd5dcf.png

Up Vote for me to a lot of people, I was saved.

This man also, is the same circumstances as me.
Please give help him.

Thanks for the upvote.

Yay, I'm ahead of the game already! I love this platform...

  ·  3 years ago (edited)

I like how the comments by accounts with negative reputation is automatically hidden. I was getting a bit fed up of trying to figure out wether the people commenting on my posts were bots or real people.

@dantheman, thanks for the insights. Everyone will be trying to reverse engineer the reputation algo. I love this approach as it provides incentive for non-whales/dolphins to stay engaged in identifying great content.

I'm going to stay the course on commenting and Upvoting and see how long it takes me to hit the next level.

Is there a way to see a league or leaderboard for all the users, so I can look at who are 9, 8, 7, 6 etc?

@dantheman Question on the mechanics of this reputation system:
You state "Those with weaker reputations are unable to harm the reputation of those with strong reputation." Is it really true anyone or group of users with weaker reputation are UNABLE to harm those with a greater reputation?

Here is why I ask. Shouldn't the collective amount of reputation be taken into account? If a dozen people with reputation of 6 downvote a person with a reputation of 7, shouldn't that count? The way I read it now, is they would be ignored by the system.

Overall I really like the reputation system having an effect on downvotes, but I think it should be a collective system.

Thanks for the post @dantheman, I would still like to know how to increase my rep? steemit is moving so fast, it's hard to keep up. Just got a new phone app update and a new rep system now.. what will next week bring? :D

Keep doing what you are doing. Going from a 7 to an 8 is a big task, but you can do it.

Hey @dan

Just wondering if I'm going to get honorable mention anywhere for bringing it to the development teams attention that higher ranks were being filtered instead of lower ranks?

I have no problem looking for bugs in updates and reporting them, But a wee bit of acknowledgement would make me feel a bit more appreciated. :/

<3 KLYE

Why @Ned gave you - xD ?

Woohoo! I'm actually very happy with the Steem richter scale. And being that I'm only about 2 weeks old with no idea how to play cryptocurrency, I'm very happy to he a solid 5. Thank you @dantheman - I immediately saw the changes and I'm so happy to be a part of this growing, thriving community. #LongLiveSteem

Oh, I wanted to ask one more thing: How often will the rep. scores be adjusted or is it going to be kind of fluid (per post, comment, etc.)? Thanks.

It is continuous with every vote on every post you make.

Is it going to remain mysterious or will you guys be expanding on how it's calculated?

Thanks, Dan. Two thumbs up.

How frequent this reputation is evaluated and updated? I guess I can use it to assess my own performance during last evaluation period. Just wonder how much impact it has on every steemian as far as upvoting is concerned. A big thank you for the information given here.

Hi, thanks for the post. Woke up this morning and saw a (5) next to my name. is the score influenced by SP holdings or only by your posting activity? thanks

I'm fairly sure the score is only directly influenced by people that upvote/downvote your content.

I only see an upvote arrow. Where is the downvote one?

So...at the time I'm writing this, @tltran is showing up with an 11 score. Bug? This person has not blogged anything yet and only one comment so far....

(My husband just upvoted their comment and now they are showing as a 4....)

well nice improvement @dantheman 8]

great !!