Burn post experiment: one week review and rules update

in steem •  10 months ago

The first seven burn posts are on track to earn 'stated' rewards of about $600 each, which breaks down into 50% SP (about 72 SP at a current price of 4.12 USD) and 50% SBD (about 300 SBD at a current price of 6.57 USD) for a total value of roughly 2270 USD per day. At a STEEM price of 4.12 USD this equates to about 550 STEEM per day burned, with 478 STEEM of that purchased from market, along with 300 SBD per day (currently worth 1975 USD) sold to the market.

The actual experience in the first two days, which have now been paid out, bought and burned, is slightly different from this due to actual market prices, and can be seen in the "proof of burn" replies on each post.

I consider this as a mild success, at least in terms of a proof of concept. In terms of direct economic effect this is clearly limited, although when selling the SBD to buy STEEM, a modest reduction in the SBD price is clearly visible in the price chart. If stakeholders continue to support or increase support for the initiative then it can have a greater impact, at least cumulatively over time.

Going forward the posts will shift to a new dedicated account @burnpost (click follow now!) with slightly different rules:

SP: powered down at the maximum rate to @null if SBD is at or below 1 USD, otherwise left in the account.

STEEM: sent to @null if SBD is at or below 1 USD, otherwise powered up and treated as SP above.

SBD: sent to @null if SBD is trading at or below 1 USD. Otherwise, traded on internal market for STEEM, which is powered up and treated as SP above.

In no case will any coins from the account ever be sold, transferred, or powered down except to @null. Any value in the account can be considered as irrevocably allocated for burning either immediately or a some time in the future.

Voting: The account will be non-voting. I haven't decided whether the account will delegate its SP, but if so my current intent is to delegate to some downvote-only objective anti-abuse initiative (such as being used to downvote mass spamming).

EDIT: Rewards from this post will be sent to the new @burnpost account and handled according to the above rules. (Other donations sent to that account will be handled likewise.)

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What is this all about?

hey mate,

pardon if this is a bit off topic…

I made a post today regarding a large-scale idea to advance Steem’s development, aiming to get this in front of the audience who’d be in the position to do something with/about it, and it was recommended to share with the witnesses (hence, this share here, as don't know of a better way/place to contact you):


The $1 Billion Steem Development Fund: How Steemit Inc.'s Stake Could Be Best Allocated To Grow A Thriving Network Of Applications And Users...

would be great if you could have a read, and IF you feel it’d be a great idea that’d serve the community, forward to anyone in particular you know who might be in a position of influence to advance the discussion.

either way, I thank you for your continued service to this community. 🙏

cheers,

Rok

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I shared your ideas with some of the witnesses and larger stakeholders. Although it isn't really my personal preference in how to approach things, I commend you for developing your thoughts and writing them down.

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awesome.

of course, I wouldn't expect things to unfold exactly as I lay them out here - though would hope there's at least some food for thought and seeds that might constructively influence decisions in directions that could draw from some of the principles therein that'd be of benefit to whatever does come out of it all.

much appreciated. 💗

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I think this account should be voting. there are so many spammers that it's getting out of control. that haiji (cant spell his name) guy is clearly out of line.

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Rules revised and SP will be delegated to an anti-spam service.

I honestly don't know why people upvote this... I understand some people think certain users are raping reward pool, and by taking rewards away, you are limiting the amount they get. Correct me if I am wrong about what this is about.
Yet this post does nothing but take away from minnows as well. It also shows the fundamental reason why steem will never take off. Whales and Dolphins are too lazy, or not willing to go through actual content and UPVOTE. A majority of users are too LAZY TO UP-VOTE.
Seriously, I see these post earning hundreds of $'s, that these same people could be UP-VOTING content. It's annoying; as a person who has created many post with original content, taking hours and hours, and getting 5 votes at .20cents.
Yeah, it's not steem going to one to a couple people we see on trending everyday, but it takes away from everyone else too.

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It isn't quite that simple. Buying STEEM as is done here raises the price of STEEM which in turn increases the reward pool. However, it helps shift things back toward equilibrium where: a) SBD is worth closer to 1 USD; and b) at least 50% of rewards are paid out in SP as intended instead of as fully-liquid and overvalued SBD which is more attractive to scammers who can cash out right away without any stake in the future success of Steem.

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It is that simple.
More attractive to "scammers?" This is a misconception that is being thrown around by this whole haejin debacle. Unfortunately, using paid upvotes, and writing 4 post a day that get upvoted and paid well, etc., is NOT scamming. It's all within the realms of Steemit. Some people might not like it, some people might be jealous whatever, but that doesn't make it scamming.

There is NOTHING stating a person can't, or shouldn't cash out right away, it's their right.

At the end of the day this post is short sited, with the intent of being a long term beneficial plan.

The simple fact is: it TAKES AWAY from the potential reward pool for minnows, just as much as anything else.

For someone on an alt-account, to make more then I can ever dream of making, just for a spammy BURN STEEM post and passing it off as beneficial to the community is just as much of a scam, and damaging to the community. It also just shows the laziness of the community. Sigh.

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There is NOTHING stating a person can't, or shouldn't cash out right away, it's their right.

True to an extent but the intended design is for 50% of rewards to be paid in SBD (can be immediately cashed out) and 50% in SP (can not be immediately cashed out). That is not the case now due to a malfunction.

For someone on an alt-account, to make more then I can ever dream of making

You are confused. No one is making anything from this, except of course the entire community of STEEM/SP holders who may benefit to the extent the buy-and-burn process increases the STEEM price, and the overall community/platform to the extent that the effects of the SBD malfunction can be somewhat corrected.

BTW, in referring to 'scammers' I wasn't intending that to refer to any particular individual. There is a general widespread phenomenon of people milking the high SBD rewards and immediately cashing them out. That doesn't mean they are doing anything 'wrong' but it means the community and voters have a right to question whether the reward pool is being well spent, to reward contributions that add value to Steem, and to take action through voting if they consider the current outcome to be suboptimal. This discussion of how rewards are best spent is one that I agree with and will work to encourage through voting and various other experiments and initiatives: https://steemit.com/steem/@transisto/my-version-of-steem-is-not-content-based-it-is-contribution-based

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Thanks for your explanation. However, I still disagree with this method.

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Nothing wrong with disagreement. Thanks for commenting.

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Why not burn the SBD to the promote option right away in place of arming more users with liquid steem/SBD. Selling them on the internal market doesn't do much good as it can still then be transferred and pumped on the open market. Using the post promote right away destroys that ability.

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I have never seen any option that allows for 100% payout in liquid form (SBD). It is either 100% SP or 50/50.

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That is correct

I had to go back to post #1 of the series to get the idea explained.

Are you alone in this experiment? I mean, aren't there any other testers who'd like to increase add more burnt STEEM?

Would be happy to read your further analysis and conclusion.

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I believe the result of the experiment being this successful shows smooth is not alone here.

I would love to see the experiment continue running and will continue voting on the posts daily.

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Makes sense indeed. I would love to follow and vote as well. Thanks!

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Of course I'm not alone. Every voter is also contributing to the experiment.

I like the idea of this having a dedicated account. I like the idea of the rewards going into an anti-abuse fund.

In fact, I love that idea. We'd be helping the eco-system in more ways than one.

so by sending to @null, the sbd and steem vanish for ever yes? excuse my limited knowledge I am new around here, is this idea being done with a view to trickle down? or just to stabilize the value of steem/steemit?
Thank you in advance should you wish to answer.

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Correct

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A programmer's answer to a question with "or" in it 😉

This sounds like a great initiative to support if you have extra voting power to spend with limited time to sort through the articles to find something that you actually like enough to give a upvote.

I am sure @spaminator would appreciate any delegations that they can get.

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This sounds like a great initiative to support if you have extra voting power to spend with limited time to sort through the articles

Good take on it. I hope your suggestion finds a good following.

Or, you could just downvote some of the accounts here which yearn for downvotes and they would have burned ur posts' rewards and their VP.
Is not it a better idea?
The only advantage of what u did here is that it raised ur rep, however it did not waste VP of those deserving their VP wasted, but the opposite.
It also did not reduce reward pool rape, not even by inflation.

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This comment has received a 90.91 % upvote from @steemdiffuser thanks to: @stimialiti. Steem on my friend!

Above average bids may get additional upvotes from our trail members!

Get Upvotes, Join Our Trail, or Delegate Some SP

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You got a 20.12% upvote from @greengrowth thanks to @stimialiti! You too can use @GreenGrowth by sending your post URL in the memo field to the bot. Minimum bid is 0.01.

If you feel this post is spammy or not worthy of @Greengrowth you can contact a moderator in our Discord Channel https://discord.gg/6DhnVTQ.

I appreciate this attempt. I asked a few people about the way they were dispersing the rewards, i.e. 150 post at 50/50 giving 70 sbd to...10 sp? (relatively) I was ignored by a number until someone's explanation just raised my eyebrow even more.

How have you been? Seeing your name made me kind of nostalgic for my steemit honeymoon period. I don't think I've spoken to you on the platform since there were still nesting limits :)

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Nice to see you again too. All the best.

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Thanks :) If you get a moment, I had a question for you in chat about the reverse conversion proposal

I must say,i like the idea of this having a dedicated account. Mostly the part where the rewards goes into an anti-abuse fund.

In fact, am in full support, We'd be helping the eco-system in more ways.

Thanks

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This comment has received a 49.75 % upvote from @steemdiffuser thanks to: @stimialiti. Steem on my friend!

Above average bids may get additional upvotes from our trail members!

Get Upvotes, Join Our Trail, or Delegate Some SP

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You got a 16.67% upvote from @greengrowth thanks to @stimialiti! You too can use @GreenGrowth by sending your post URL in the memo field to the bot. Minimum bid is 0.01.

If you feel this post is spammy or not worthy of @Greengrowth you can contact a moderator in our Discord Channel https://discord.gg/6DhnVTQ.

Proof of burn

Author reward 99.435 SBD, and 16.557 STEEM POWER for smooth/burn-post-experiment-one-week-review-and-rules-update

Sold 99.435 SBD for 108.162 STEEM on internal market

https://steemd.com/tx/da998d83b5d76fbb8af1a0ff710d1546f591ed4f

Total powered up to @burnpost of 16.557+108.162 = 124.719 SP

https://steemd.com/tx/a9d46ad763d5dfa61d2baa6dbbd5048d0ba89d3e

Unfortunately I arrived late and this post explains nothing about what a "Burn Post" is or what it accomplishes. What is the benefit and to whom?

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Look the other posts in my blog

Screen Shot 2018-01-26 at 6.05.47 PM.png

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Assuming the goal is to help the steem blockchain grow/rise,
and notwithstanding that opinions are supposedly like assholes,
[which i don't understand because people have only one asshole],
doesn't the chance always exist,
that there might turn out to be other methods you support even more,
which could in fact cause this whole chains ship,
to rise much higher in the overall cryptocean?

Please let me know if we can talk at all,
at least for a few minutes.

Alx.

https://discord.gg/8WkwsJ

Hey, I want to have a chat about our delegation agreement -- could you check my DM on steemit.chat?

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I discovered only this hour where thing-2 got its power from.
I discovered it by happen so, in one of my steemd travels.
While gentlebot and thing-2 helped engaging comments and discouraged self upvoting on comments, they also upvoted grumpycat's/checkthisout's comment farming spam multiple times.
Is not it good enough a reason to employ blacklists in them?
Or work on some automatic scripted blacklisting algorithm if u want to both experiment and keep them automatic?

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I have a blacklist, but have had very little time to keep on top of it lately. When I relaunch gentlebot next week I'll try to update it some.

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You got a 3.13% upvote from @thebot courtesy of @stimialiti!
I have 10% guaranteed positive return on bids to help minnows.
Delegators get 95% of daily rewards, so delegate me some Steem Power to earn daily: 20, 50, 75, 100, 150, 200, 300, 400, 500, 1000 or Fill in any SP.
For details click here.

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You got a 25.00% upvote from @greengrowth thanks to @stimialiti! You too can use @GreenGrowth by sending your post URL in the memo field to the bot. Minimum bid is 0.01.

If you feel this post is spammy or not worthy of @Greengrowth you can contact a moderator in our Discord Channel https://discord.gg/6DhnVTQ.

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OK thanks for the heads up. I will check there.

nice dear @smooth
thank you for sharing

Great job and I appreciate you keeping your word! Much respect! Thank you for your efforts to better the platform!

Nice! Thanks for making the community great! Really appreciate it!

help promote to know about this spamming i really work hard on this if i got good response i know so many scammers harming reward pool thanks

https://steemit.com/steem/@farazahmad/reality-of-sweetsssj-caught-is-this-legal-on-steemit-to-cheat-minnows

thank you for the information is very helpful to us.
I like your post...
@halus

Thanks you

good post, I like your post ..

I need your support please visit my blog https://steemit.com/@muliadi
if you like my post please give upvote, resteem &follow me.
thank you, keep on steemit

i think is good idea. i will participe in this experiment

Good experiment and burn-post :D

Hi, im gonna be truthful to you... I'm looking for a way to get higher upvotes and I don't like the buy a vote thing... so, what can I do to get your attention or in case you don't wanna do it... can you give me some advice?
Thanks!
Lucian

Really a good post never knew about burn experiment but am happy I. Know about it now

This is informative, burn post experiment ....i have been wondering but then i look forward to the concluding part of the experiment.

Wow burn post experiment..
I hope i could be success on this plattform..
Thank you for sharing..

i think more hands will be needed to push the eco-system into more different field. it is a very good idea...
keep the fire burning...

Thanks for the information ..........it will be helpful for me.......thanks

Congratulations @smooth! You have received a personal award!

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I'm new and can't understand what the article say, can someone explain it to me or link me to similar article? thankyou

Very interesting friends

my current intent is to delegate to some downvote-only objective anti-abuse initiative (such as being used to downvote mass spamming)

Hi @smooth, @flagawhale and @steemflagrewards are two iniatives that I have been developing for the purposes of flag incentivization that I believe may fall into your criteria or close to it.

The accounts are also used to upvote and support similar abuse fighting initiatives so hopefully that doesn't fall outside of your downvote-only scope.

So far with the help of @fulltimegeek and others, we have recovered over $28k STU via downvotes from collusive and short sighted users like @haejin. Would love to hear your thoughts about what we are doing. If you review @steemflagrewards comment history, you will notice how we are using Discord and our community to help in addressing the comment spam problem. Additional voting power would go a long way in performing what I otherwise usually a thankless task.

Lastly, I ask that you please exert your influence in the modification of the reputation system that we may handle higher rep spam accounts.

Thank you for your consideration.

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For now I am delegating primarily to mack-bot. However, if it ever gets to the point where mack-bot is unable to use the voting power to deal with all the mass posting and spam (a great hope!) then I'll consider other downvote-only delegation targets.

As far as the rep system, my understanding is that this is on the roadmap for hivemind which is the technical underpinnings needed to implement many UI enhancements, the first being communities. See the recent post by @steemitblog.

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Thanks for the reply, @smooth. I greatly appreciate @patrice's work and just realized that @mack-bot actually posts so will make it a point to support that.

The biggest problem is that much of the abuse on the blockchain falls outside of their scope. We hope to bridge the gap and would appreciate if you consider us in the future. I make it a point to highlight witnesses that support us even if it I just an upvote.

By the way, thank you for flagging Haejin. I just noticed you were on our payout list for @flagawhale. I assume @smooth-a and @smooth-e are also yours.

Screenshot_20180403-211039.png

You piqued my interest. What is the 'a' and the 'e' stand for if anything?

As for hivemind, going to need to take a closer look at the roadmap as I am not sure it will solve the problem with a lower rep abuse fighter affecting a higher rep scammer (In my experience there are MANY of these).

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What is the 'a' and the 'e' stand for if anything?

They don't stand for anything. I just created several different accounts early on to organize my holdings.

Sounds interesting.

Wow😍😍😍

good post, it can help me, good luck

Thanks for sharing