Steem Bot Colored Dreams - 50/50 to Save Steem?
View this post on Hive: Steem Bot Colored Dreams - 50/50 to Save Steem?
5 years ago in #steem by raj808 (71)
$4.22
- Past Payouts $4.22, 0.00 TRX
- - Author $3.34, 0.00 TRX
- - Curators $0.88, 0.00 TRX
We at oracle-d have suffered with this issue of non organic content discovery for a long time now. We have lost at least one client as a result of the changes that bots have bought about. We have incurred months of delays to our development while we have tried to work on a model that still provides clients with value, which we now have based on the bid bot market. We are now deving this out so that it scales. Even though, after all the efforts we have made to adapt to the new bid bot driven content discovery market on Steem, in principle, we should do everything we can as a community to encourage organic content discovery on Steem, before more dev time is spent by projects who need to adapt to the unsustainable bid bot systems that reward for zero work done by large Steem holders. The token will only succeed if the large holders have to set up systems that make them work hard to discover genuine organic content. It cannot work on passive returns only as this is non value added rewards. It’s the only way to make this whole thing work. Thanks for a well thought out piece on this here @raj808
Cheers for the feedback @starkerz
It's encouraging to see that you recognize that the system is not functioning effectively. I'm impressed you've managed to realign to function under the vote buying economy, and sell steem to investors.
I feel like my point about audience in this article is key. If we had a larger, more diverse, more satisfied audience of creators/consumers on steem it would make it a much easier to sell steem as an investment to larger businesses. It's simply a question of numbers. Eyes on message! I worked in marketing for a short period. I know that if I had a budget spend for advertising, I would be trying to spread it out based on two factors. Eyes on message... and the right eyes on message. At the moment on steem we're simply loosing people with eyes to look. Bots don't buy products, services or ideas.
I appreciate that it's sometimes a case of working with what you've got in this world. But I personally would like to see steem succeed as a true content reward platform, both for my own personal dreams of writing for a living, but also to see steem value grow for everyone. I really don't see the two as being mutually exclusive as I've heard others say it is. Leveraging the potential audience to investors/marketing agencies based on their interests is of huge benefit to steem. But vote buying sends most intelligent, accomplished content creators running a mile which stifles the platforms growth.
Anyway, I've pretty much said all this in this post already lol. It's something that I've talked about a lot in the past but I'd given up on. This post by steemit.inc opening 50/50 up for debate woke me up 🤣
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Either way, we have attracted several hundred thousand of new money delegat d to us by our clients, and we maintain it by creating free content for them. It costs to get it to trend. Basically, Steem works as long as there are more comments on Treading than if u don’t pay for trending. As long as that happens, we can still provide value to clients, even if that is done by paying Steem holders for their vote while they do no tangible activity to add value. We do this at our risk however, since if the trending page is abused or becomes unpopular, the Steem mechanism essentially is finished. So basically Steem holders have decided it is better to place all their eggs on the trending page and be able to earn high inflation passive returns for adding zero value to the eco system instead of choosing to have trending page + organic content discovery but have to work hard or pay money to set up systems to ensure organic content discovery flourishes on Steem. It’s short term over long term, sustainable thinking... or maybe in other words greed over wisdom. We will keep doing our best to change the culture on Steem. It MUST change. There is no other choice
Spot on!
IMO, how the long term value of steem can be built and solidified is to find a way to appropriately reward/encourage/retain quality contributors, which will build a more attractive audience for investors. Especially targeted content marketing, which I know is part of what you're doing. It's a no brainer for me that vote buying needs to be squeezed out as it's skewed as a form of economy that takes much more out than it brings in. The only benefit I can see in it is keeping passive investors in steem who may have left without that delegation model.
Anyway, thanks again for your perspective.... I'm off out for a bike ride now to blow of some steam
We are doing exactly this with our new platform 3speak.online, which is in final alpha phase. Ur welcome to check it out
I read through this after responding to you in my replies. I think we are of similiar mind:)Thank you:)
Hi Prydefoltz
Yeah, I think we have similar ideas about how steem can thrive in a fair & productive way 🙂
Thanks for checking out this post. I read your comment, and will respond tomorrow I promise. I've just gone out with an old friend to escape the world of steem for a bit lol
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Jealous ... though I did go to a concert and movie today:)
Nice! What did you see? And was the concert any good? I haven't been to see live music in so long. I'm also jealous 😅😉
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Don't be too jealous. It was a choir concert at our local school of music and so it varying from really talented folks to those just learning but it was free and they gave us treats afterwards and so that made my on happy.
The movie was Into the Spider Verse, which was actuallly very good if you ask me. They have a family movies special on Saturday mornings here. The movings are a little older but the price is only 3 dollars. Next week is Aquaman, which we have already seen, but are pleased to see one more time:)
Listened to the speech. You are absolutely right! The bots need to go. I was talking to someone today and they said that is why they don't use steemit.
Well written and solid points man. Found this from Dan's post.
Thanks m8. Yeah, the bots do need to go... but unfortunately, I don't think many 'at the top' agree with that sentiment. Dan is about the only whale I've seen who doesn't defend vote buying. The number one top witness yabmatt, or whatever his name is invented, and runs, a bidbot and more than 10 of the top 100 witnesses run bidbots or vote buying services. I've done the research on this one, believe me that the problem is a big one and it's perpetuated by those in privileged positions on steem. As much as I wish it weren't so, I think that unless everyone bands together to downvote, and remove witness votes from these people, nothing will ever change. Even with 50/50.
But, lets see what happens 🙂 I think steem will still find success of these problems aren't resolved, but it won't succeed as a content platform if these problems aren't resolved. It will end up with some other use case, which would make me sad.
Thanks for your comment @dmilliz
I'm glad this article resonated with you and that my arguments made sense. Sometimes it can feel like content like this falls on deaf ears with so many others writing around the subject lol
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I don't agree with 50/50 curation, it is too much because curation is just a whale game while slashing a post's reward to a half will be painful for the author like me and I just might use a bidbot to compensate for a loss of profit @raj808
Anyway if somebody wants to make changes in steem it must be in agreement with steemitinc too because they have a large stake and they control witnesses.
I'm not sure if you read the whole post or just the title @cryptopie. It's a much more complex issues than the idea that you're just gonna lose 25% more of your rewards!
But will, 50/50 change anything? If these proposed changes can make curation a better ROI than delegating to bidbots then there is a chance, as this is the only thing which might restore faith and bring huge numbers of users back (and keep them retained) to steem.There are only two factors that historically drive up the steem price; a bull market and a massive influx of new users.
My hope is that if curation is made more profitable, communities and curation entities (like curie) will be able to offer better ROI through delegation to their manual curation efforts than vote buying services. This scenario would cause a virtuous cycle, where passive investment helps encourage and grow the community.This is key. If everyone who currently delegate to bidbots jumped ship to delegate to curation guilds and communities because they could offer better ROI, pretty much all active steemians would realise an increased chance at higher payouts' on posts. Despite giving up 50% of their post payout, 50% of $20 is a lot more than 75% of $3. But would it work this way I'm envisioning?... I'm not a hundred percent sure and that is a valid concern.
50/50 would only improve the overall user experience of steem if that scenario I describe above could be made to happen. Otherwise, you're right, 50/50 just becomes a way for whales to make more money off each other leaving everyone else worse off.
The curation guilds need to do some calculations to see if they could theoretically offer comparible Return on investment for delegation as vote buying services do. Because if they could with a 50/50 model... It would be a game changer. You have to also take into account the positive impact on overall steem price if vote buying services were squeezed out in favour of a steem that rewards based on the quality of content.
It's pretty much impossible to profit more than a dollar, occasionally, from bidbots... most of the time they return negative ROI unless you time bids perfectly and risk large amounts on large bids. A lot of variables to get right. Bidbots are like gambling.
P.s. You're right that steemit.inc can block or approve pretty much anything with the stake and influence they have but this proposal has been presented on steemit.inc's blog. That fact should not be taken lightly. It means they wouldn't block it if a majority consensus of witnesses agreed to it.
I don't think whales will diversify or improve their curation efforts with 50/50 curation, it will just be a way for them to circlejerk more. The proponent of that idea is kevinwong the owner of etherpunk account here.
@raj808
Again that proposal can go through if steemitinc wants it to get voted on consensus. I may not understood it fully but 50% curation cut is too much .
It's not a question of whales diversifying. Whales don't care about anything else other than their own profits. It's about offering them a way to profit that also builds/supports the community while improving user experience. A large amount of whales profits come from delegating to vote buying services. If 50/50 allowed curie and other curation guilds to pay whales the same or more for delegating to them then whales would move their delegation... simple as that. They will move where the money is and if that creates fairer vote distribution then it's a bonus because even the most selfish person can recognise the value in the over all price of steem rising. Which is what would happen if this platform offered new and existing users better chances at decent payouts on posts based on the quality of posts.
As I said above, it all hinges on communities and curation guilds being able to offer better ROI for delegation than vote buying services. The only way that is possible is through 50/50 because curation guilds make most of their operational costs through curation payouts.
I hope this clarifies what I'm trying to explain in this article.
Whales will continue to circle jerk with their active stake (the sp they don't delegate away)... But that's not the point. That will never change. I'm talking about the huge positive effect it will have on all of our steem experiences (and by that I mean post payouts) if the huge stake that whales lock up by delegating to vote buying services, goes to communities and curation initiatives. Both communities and curation guilds run non-profit and their whole reason for existing is to reward quality content and active steemians. If whales can still make their money in a passive way by delegating to them they'll be happy and it will unlock millions of SP to be used to reward everyone, not just people who buy votes!
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Really good points, I share most of them with you. The point of no return is a scary thing to me. I invested here because I believe it and would really like to see it get on track and do big things. Appreciate you speaking out
Thanks Vlad. Yeah, the bots need to go imo... but unfortunately, I don't think many 'at the top' agree with that sentiment. The number one top witness yabmatt, or whatever his name is invented, and runs, a bidbot and more than 10 of the top 100 witnesses run bidbots or vote buying services. I've done the research on this one, the number one issue driving steem into the ground is perpetuated by those in privileged positions on steem. All for their short term gains. As much as I wish it weren't so, I think that unless everyone bands together to downvote, and remove witness votes from these people, nothing will ever change. Even with 50/50.
But, lets see what happens 🙂 I think steem will still find success of these problems aren't resolved, but it won't succeed as a content platform if these problems aren't resolved. It will end up with some other use case, which would make me sad.
Thanks for your comment m8. Sometimes it can feel like content like this falls on deaf ears with so many others writing around the subject lol
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