Bidbot Maximalists
This subject has been so discussed, I feel at times like I should just let it die. But, it seems that no matter how much information gets put out there, there's always a small group of people who don't grasp the whole picture. They may have a general notion, but the whole picture is absent.
Reward Pool
The topic of much heated debate, and the abstract nonphysical treasure so many people defend. I will say this, It's not that I don't get the complaints, because I completely do. It's more that the math here is simple, and yes: "code is law" is the mantra.
The more SP you have, the more pool you control. If you have a smaller amount of SP, then you mathematically, by design, have a small say in the allocation of the pool. If you find that fair or unfair is another subject all together. The point is that the system is clear on this.
Of course the conversations are very emotional, more so because we've bought into the notion that there's such thing as reward pool rape. The idea that someone can allocate more of the inflation, that the system allows. Do you see how that does not compute? How could someone allocate more than the system allows without it being a glitch in the code? It's literally not possible.
We may think the reward pool is not being used wisely, and that is also another subject, but it's not being raped, it's simply not how the system works.
Bidbot Maximalists
Don't understand the math either. They think that the way you get a lot of money is by shitposting and bidbotting your way to the trending and this could not be further from the truth. That being said, the math is complicated, and some I'm sure have not taken the time to really draw up any numbers.
A somewhat common optimal scenario for a bidbot maximalist is to get about a 10% ROI on their investment. That is to say, that if everything goes well, if he or she doesn't catch any flags, incur the wrath of Steemcleaners or what have you, they can possibly, with high risk mind you, make about 10% on their investment.
To translate this into simpler math, a Bidbot Maximalist that waits three days to boost a post, and sends it to let's say $50 every time. Is probably making $5 and that's solely if it works out. So you see, they are not making $50 on their posts, because most of it is being transferred to bots and their delegators. They however, see the $50 and feel like rockstars a bit.
But this practice in futility (imo) can easily be broken with a fluctuation in the markets or by some downvotes.
The point is, that someone who is a constant content producer, and makes $5 organically, makes the same amount of gains, almost without risk at all. So what's better, I ask you? The answer seems obvious to me.
Freedom
In closing. I say people need to make their own beds, and learn the hard way sometimes. Yes, some people will get it, will build a community of support around themselves, create meaningful relationships, and some will play the cat and mouse game. But, it's not my place to tell people what role they should be playing.
MenO
The math is about right. 10% if they are lucky and if they don't check properly they could be losing. If they have beneficiaries on their posts then they are not actually growing. I have watched in amazement at some spending many dollars for zero returns. They are still doing it lol.
25% of all my post rewards go to beneficiaries. My stake is growing. Bernie flags every one, and all my comments. My stake is growing. Beneficiaries do not prevent growth. My wallet is an open book. Don't take my word for it.
Bidbots are cancer, and they're killing Steem. People confuse receivables with profit. Taking advantage of their naivety is reprehensible, and I'm agin' it.
Code is law, but it's not physics. It's law in the same way the walls of a home are law: the limits on action, and a platform on which actions can be based. Walls can be poorly built, and even make a home unlivable. We're dropping in CMC, about 30 places in the two years I've been here. Code, like walls can be fixed.
We need a bit of a remodel, IMHO.
LOL last bidbot maximalist I talked to muted me...
Now I'm curious! hehehe
An interesting review @meno and apparently everyone wants to catch fish in muddy water!
Fully agree. Actually I think those that don’t build their SP are the first to leave the platform but they will come again soon, trying to get that 10% again, missing the chance to get a constant reward
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Constant work is the key to evolve here. ;)
Yes, here and everywhere 😉
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I do not use the bots and have not looked lately, but I did look at a list of the top botters a few months ago. Someone published a list of the top 20 or 50 of them based on payouts or something.
I was expecting to see memes and crap, but instead I saw very few sh$tposts. Most of what I saw were actual posts with messages that could matter to some people. To my surprise, many of the posts had a lot of comments by little guys that were being upvoted by the botting authors for good amounts.
I also looked in a lot of the wallets and saw few power downs and lots of people with very high sp in their wallets. I think they must be doing something right to get well over dolphin status.
I will just keep blogging and not get into the bots, but they seem to work from what I saw.
if you take in the flags and the fluctuations and the overbidding then the 10% is generous i think. So in the end they might just power up if it was not for a lot of redfish that really do not get the system and think these posts are the best steem has to offer
I've had conversations with friends of mine who "maximize" and they always tell me I'm wrong. But, I know they've not done the math.
Yeah, the idea that selling your vote is the worst thing in the world is an attitude rooted in the ideal that people should be forced to allocate inflation in a certain way.
If you want a say in how allocation is distributed... stake more coins. Plain and simple.
If your only regard is for your personal stake, you may not be wrong. If you're intent on Steem being successful, you're very wrong. We're sliding in marketcap for reasons, and one of them is that code encourages extracting rewards instead of encouraging creating good content and attracting more people to Steem, which would build value in the investment vehicle.
We have a terrible retention rate, ~7.5% IIRC, and these two metrics are joined at the hip by the profiteering model the code encourages, and both would be mitigated, if not reversed, by creating proper incentives for stake to imbue the underlying vehicle with more value via development and using rewards as the marketing tool it was intended to be.
If you want people to come to Steem, stop extracting the rewards that might bring them here. The code enabling rewards to be extracted by profiteers is why they aren't coming much, don't stay if they do, and the value of Steem continues to drop in a competitive market.
I'm not moralizing about ebil votesellers. I don't care. I do care about Steem, and came here because Steem has potential to protect free speech in a world that is increasingly dominated by delusional censors incapable of facing reality. That matters a lot. If Steem fails, I don't know what might step up to that plate.
Good code can encourage development and grow the value of Steem. We see that Steem has dropped ~30 places in two years. That's not a fad. It's not a temporary wiggle. It's a long term trend, and a prophecy. Bad code needs fixing, and voteselling is what it needs to fix, or we're gonna watch Steem keep on dropping until it doesn't matter anymore.
With all due respect, I disagree. Vote selling brings value to Steem; it doesn't take it away.
Where supply meets demand, markets and liquidity are created, no matter what. Fighting against vote selling directly is extremely counter productive.
Why is there demand to buy votes? Because the frontends greatly reward payout value in the form of curation (visibility, not Steem rewards). Anyone who wants to fight against vote selling needs to attack the incentive to buy votes at the source.
Anyone can create a frontend, which means anyone can change the visibility granted to posts in an innovative way that solves the problem. The solution is permissionless, which means anyone who is attempting to fix the problem with a hard fork is simply trying to funnel inflation into their own pockets using covert propaganda.
voteselling is NOT curation. It is contrary to curation. It's profiteering that extracts operating funds intended to encourage good content that markets Steem.
That kills the Steem.
The issue I am raising is not about advertising at all. It's about incentives to imbue the investment vehicle with value, or to strip value from the vehicle. The vehicle is Steem, and financial profiteering is like selling the machine tools on a factory floor to profit the owners of the stock. It strips the ability of the investment vehicle to increase in value, and declines capital gains in favor of profiteering.
That's what voteselling does.
The word rape is not in relation to taking more than the system allows, that was never what reward pool rape was about, everyone knows that you cannot take more than the system allows. The reason it's called rape, if I remember correctly @inertia remarked something like: rape as in pillaging, rape as in abusing. The conversation was always about the reward pool being used wisely, as you say, that's why reward pool rape isn't about violating the code, but in abusing the code.
I agree very much Baah, but I don't think most people know the difference.
I think they do, and I think so because no one wanted to debate the pro's of using bidbots last June/July when @bingethinking (formerly known as @son-of-satire) was asking everyone to debate him and I had to do a mock debate as for the pro's, that silence let me know that it's such a detestable / despicable thing that nobody wanted to defend it. If they would have it would be like a racist paramedic defending his "jokes" before a former paramedic judge..
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Bots provide a way to pay for attention or people believe they will make money with them.
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There are other ways that wouldn't so taint Steem with the stench of profiteering, and some of them have been thought of. The promoted tab is one, but profiteers made an end run around it. Curation would provide that attention to quality content if it wasn't manipulable for financial gain.
Yeah earning from the bid bot is bit difficult because it's bot they don't go with market sentiment so might be able get good profitable sometimes but sometimes it can be a loss.
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