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What I see is an attempt to scapegoat something you don't like for personal reasons, downvotes, to try to explain the declining market price of STEEM.

The market price is a very complex issue and I really can't believe that you believe downvoting is the primary reason for the market decline. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt because you're obviously unqualified to understand market basics, but it's still obvious to anyone paying attention just to the Steem world that downvoting is not the cause of STEEM market price decline.

Your populist appeal to remove downvotes from Steem, which would be ruinous, is an appeal to defend yourself from the rational reactions to your own shortcomings. I'm downvoting this post as it is my right as a Steem stakeholder to remove rewards and trending ranking to posts I don't think are deserving of either.

My crack team have determined it was the price of Bitcoin going down that pushed all other crypto's down. No more easy market manipulation by exchanges. That really hurt our fake meteoric rise, bringing us back towards reality. So, my crack team has determined that prices are exactly where they should be if not for a market manipulation.

Hey Jerry, you ever do any market manipulation?

Hey @jerrybanfield I need an account for my fishfriend. Where do I send the $50 to?

You can create account for less than 50$ dont't send any money to this scammer. You can use annosteem for that.

I'm pretty sure @fishandchips was being sarcastic :P

You got it right, I was messing around. I know annonsteem and blocktrades offer instant account creation services at a fair price.

I would never send Jerry a single satoshi. If I would want to support a scammer I would donate to a church instead.

I believe they were being sarcastic.

Your populist appeal to remove downvotes from Steem, which would be ruinous, is an appeal to defend yourself from the rational reactions to your own shortcomings.

That's truth directed to the yugular right there.

If the words populist appeal does not raise a red flag on people's mind, then I don't know if we will ever learn from the lessons of history after all.



Jerry... ouch... where your big money under your post? You so long write this post to get nothing...

Way to stand up for the little guy, that being centralized everything, that picks and chooses how you live your life. This graphic is so laughably left wing propaganda I don't know where to start. Populism is a leftist label given to those people that want to slow the amount government is running their lives day to day. Simple. So to follow this logic would imply that the removal of any central authority's power of any kind is due to racism toward the scapegoats of the entity? We (meaning I have no idea who you are talking about because people on an individual basis learn at their own speeds based on their individual interests and life experiences, I do not learn everything you learn and you do not learn everything I learn, all cognition is not a to b then it has to be c, in a vacuum like you present it here). To imply this is to assume any cuts of any kind to central government is done out of racism, or a conspired effort to hold classes of people down? Really? I have seen some of your statement on a lot of things, they are very well thought out, virtually always but this one unfortunately falls short. I should have more often voiced my agreement in what you are saying more often, like 90-95% of the time you have a very coherent and solid basis of facts. I could site my favorite "right wing nut bag" authors with a similar flow chart but that would be equally a fool's errand.

I think you missed my point completely, but that's completely OK. I'm neither left wing, right wing. A few years ago I walked away from the magical bird.

The graph (not mine) was simply shared as a visual representation of the psychology at play here. Not an actual representation with the dotted i's and crossed t's as you are assuming I meant.

What Jerry has effectively done here is appeal to the populus, to the little guy, to the tiny account that can't seem to get ahead on the platform, telling those accounts he knows the answer, he knows the reason.

ITS THE FLAGS

Then he pivots, directs the blame towards the witnesses and stake holders who want to keep the flags as the culprits painting them all with a broad brush.

You may not see it this way, and in this sense we can agree to disagree. I won't start citing titles and diplomas to back claims, they either stand on their own or they fall flat in pools of stupidity.

So to be clear about my position.-

Jerry is using his anecdotal evidence to call for a change on the platform that would remove the ability for the participants of the platform to police the community.

To say he has been flagged because of jealousy, because he makes too much, or anything of the sort is to ignore the evidence. You may choose to ignore it, your choice.

I think you made some political assumptions about me, and this may be because you are not aware of the dominating anarchist stance of most users of this platform, thus you balled me up with some people you've normally interacted with. I personally don't play ball on that field.

So, ignore the specifics of the chart for a second and attempt to grasp my intention within the context of my reply.

Populism mixed with escape goating is a recipe for disaster.

Yeah I guess, I did. Oh well, your explanation nails it right on. That was actually why I was a little surprised you went the political route to explain that, but yes, anger the natives, get out the pitchforks (so to speak of course, lol) and blame 'downvoting.' I try to refrain from arguing politics because yes "the magic bird" is a losing proposition. The more local the argument to the heart of the matter and solution, the less need for political infusion. Very well put, no hard feelings I hope, I try not to peg anyone on an uncensored platform like this, because too often I find I am nowhere close. BTW this new pic sure takes heated conversation down quickly, lol.

Everything is well brother!

:)

Seems to me most of the anger is aimed at Jerry here.

In all fairness @meno, I am one of those little guys and you never asked me or my kind how we feel. I am in powerdown mode currently because of the flagging abuse (silencing), as are many others. This platform should never be one that is considered to be decentralized! I suggest you pay closer attention to what the "little man" has been screaming about for the last year or so.

looks like something fell out of the rear end of my cow

I'm downvoting this post as it is my right as a Steem stakeholder to remove rewards and trending ranking to posts I don't think are deserving of either.

I actually think that if more people had this approach to trending posts, the product on Steemit and other Steem applications would be a lot better, which could possibly have an affect on price. I say this from the perspective of someone who has been flagged a lot. The other day, @whatsup made a post saying we should act like we own it, in regards to Steem. I wholeheartedly agree. Even with my small stake, I consider this my platform, my product. In that mindset, I want to be able to affect the product put forth, in consensus with all other investors. Voting, both up and down, is the way we reach that consensus. It's good for Steem.

I agree and I also think this is a thinly disguised whine post, a category which does not add value to Steem and doesn't deserve rewards (post and whine if you like, but don't expect to be paid for it).

@smooth yes you are right

Jerry Banfield's face does not add value to steem? wtf, man...

Thanks for explaining this, mate. For minnow content creators like me, it's good to have someone like yourself deconstruct Jerry's rant so as to dispell fear of Steem diving the way he claims.

Oh please nathan, don't listen to this guy. On this is he is very wrong.

Hey mate, I was listening to @pfunk and @meno. Are you saying I shouldn’t in this case?

Why would removal of flags be ruinous? I usually hate @jerrybanfield, but it seems like he has a point here. Don't really know if this point is data-driven, but why do you think Dan Larimer moved to Medium?

Assuming flags will only be given out for purposes beneficial to the larger Steem community is like assuming that every post or comment is only made for good. If you consider Spam or scams to be bad content, you must also consider a portion of flags to be 'bad flags'. Jerry does have a point here; a flag has much more psychological impact compared to an upvote.

Is 'aggrandizement' a good reason to flag?

Without downvotes the Steem platform's method of reward and stake distribution would not work. Parasitic abusers would consume the host.

What part of the word "abuse" did you not understand? Steemit is flawed, it's that simple. Until Steemit is cleaned up and returned to it's original design and intent, it will never get better. Getting rid of rogue witnesses would be a good start!

Steemit's (the website) original design was a mess. Didn't have wallet pages, didn't have a lot of things. Though there was something in the original design that unfortunately has been changed. A downvote was called a downvote, not erroneously called a flag.

If you mean Steem's original design, it originally was designed and intended to have downvotes.

What I mean about Steemit's original intent was to be an uncensored blogging platform, not a runaway social network nightmare filled with bots and bullies, where B.S. earns more than thoughtful, creative content. That is what it has become unfortunately. There is nothing wrong with flagging inappropriate comment or hate speech, or anything that would be considered destructive to the platform, but certain (too many) individuals flag for the fun of it, or because it makes them feel bigger than they really are I suppose. Don't want it, don't need it, and am moving on when my power down is complete.

Without flags bad actors have free game on this platform and that is not good. We will destroy this platform if can not stop bad actors by removing their rewards, we can never censor them though.

I'm one of those bad actors you speak about (who got flagged into oblivion). So do tell... what did I do wrong? (Caution: requires a certain amount of reading and research to come to a conclusion, if you really want to back up your answer.)

I think the platform would quite possibly be improved by incentivizing flagging high reward posts. The higher the value of a post you flag when you flag it, the higher your curation reward.

I think that would only incentivize people to flag high reward posts regardless of whether the content is good or bad.

But I think it's in a direction we should start looking.

True, but i would argue that the posts with the highest payouts are rarely worth it, even for the good posts. And flags are inherently limited by steempower just as upvotes are. Sounds like an interesting bot experiment (that would no doubt anger a lot of people). Maybe a cap per post and/or per user per day would help?

As to your first point, that's fair. There is mostly crap floating to the top of the bowl.

I've always felt an upvote should max at $1 or $2. Does it really need to be more than that? If you have more voting power, then you can cast more votes and get more curation that way.

Also, I'd get rid of this 23.13% upvote nonsense. If you want to upvote something, go all in, and upvote it 100%. if you want to get rid of bots, this is the way to go. (Not that I'm necessarily against using bots, but this seems the logical route to go, as it seems to me.)

If the upvote had a max value then I would agree with getting rid of the percentage slider. Then people with more steem power would just have more votes. However, without doing that, reducing the percent of your vote is the only way to get more votes and have them count for anything (at least for those of us that have sub $1 votes anyway). As it is, I usually vote at about 33%.

You are only incentivizing further bad behavior (and major flagging wars). My suggestion is for someone to create a "Steemit Battlefield" game, where all those so-called bad actors can defend themselves from the Whale Aggressors! Knives and swords only.

This post is not mainly about the steem price. It's about that the community has no power here on steemit...

But the title though ?

Ya I watch the entire 50 minute Video, not sure why he choose that title. Why the steem-price is low is a more complex issue that is for sure. Jerry talk about flaws in the steem-blockchain that makes real and good content producers go away. This way the steem-price will be affected negatively in the long run or steemit might even will be prevented from becoming huge.

Ya I watched the entire 50 minute Video, not sure why he choose that title. Why the steem-price is low is a more complex issue that is for sure. Jerry talk about flaws in the steem-blockchain that makes real and good content producers go away. This way the steem-price will be affected negatively in the long run or steemit might even will be prevented from becoming huge.

Ya I watched the entire 50 minute Video, not sure why he choose that title.

Maybe for click bait, to get people to visit his post via a lie. So he could put his truth out to the little guy.

Exactly! And precisely the reason I moved to Stishit where all members are created equal, regardless of how much crypto they hold!

Cmon @pfunk

Everyone knows Bitcoin follows the price of Steem and everything else follows Bitcoin so Jerry being downvoted driving the price of Steem down is crashing the entire market :(

Have you no heart man ?

However, I don't believe breastfeeding on Youtube should be supported on the blockchain.

LOL

Agreed, this is junk and not worth much attention. Flagged.

It's junk because you disagree with Jerry or because you don't think he put the effort in?

Seems like he is genuine in his suggestion even if one disagrees.

Your posts seem ok I also like EOS but I don't think it's as much effort as Jerry has put in.

Feel free to downvote all my posts since you have the power.

Seeing the level of anger on comments here is really disappointing.

I downvoted this post because Jerry makes false assumptions that the price of steem goes down because of the flags. When Steem reached 8 dollars, we still had the flag option, so his assumption is more than wrong. Secondly, it is clear that he wants to remove the flag option because he wants to have his payouts secured, which one more time reveals the greed that jerry has.

I find it useless to put effort into a post that spreads misinformation and demand changing the rules for an entire blockchain only to satisfy one's greed.

You downvoted this post because you don't like JB, that is simple to see. He has an opinion and his opinion is just as valuable as yours, regardless of how weird he might seem to some people!

I have stated the honest reason for downvoting that post. It is my right to do it and I believe that it was a wise choice regarding the good of this blockchain.

It is true that I don't like Jerry lately, but this is not the reason for downvoting his post.

Would it be fair to say then that people that don't value your opinion, they should downvote your comment, like your's above? That is the problem with this platform, you should not downvote someone because you disagree with their opinion. Can you counter his argument about why the price is suffering in view of Steemit's supposed growth? IMO, it is because the site has become filled with vile, and that simple fact alone will drive investors away. I came to this platform with very high hopes and invested my own money, only to learn that it is nothing more than a big 'ole wasp nest. And I have been stung!

I have already did. I don't feel the need to make myself more clear than I already did, and I simply don't see what you don't understand about my comment (and others) above. JB is very greedy and I lost all the respect that I got for him. He showed this numerous times, but I don't have the energy to describe all the examples that I am aware of in this matter.

And secondly, everybody as a Steem Power holder has the right to downvote anything.

You're preaching to the choir. Many of the people opposing this aren't new, uninvested, or hard working toward the betterment of the Steem platform.

Let me ask you, what would you expect from the populous in response to one of the main contenders that gover and run the entire network going off the rails ranting about sucking his own dick (way more than mentioning passively, which is still fucked) and going on to display that he has absolutely novice knowledge about how this all works?

If you're being delusional, have at it. If you're misinformed and misled, then lets talk.

I don't flag posts indiscriminately. I flag with conviction, which is why I don't flag you, which you seem to have been expecting.

Jerry is making an absolute -FOOL- of the governing body of this chain. Arguing against that exposes ignorance.

Short and clear.

i cant believe he takes forever to explain one thing, hes just over complicating it.

He is just mad that it's all happening again, he will sell STEEM like he did with Dash (panic sold) and STEEM will make a huge run, like Dash did...

xcbbbb.gif

Downvotes is bad due to no curator rewards. I think we should start to pay curator's reward for downvotes to make steem clearer!

Or... 25% from upvotes and 15% from flags.

You could always try to join @steemflagrewards and sign up for @dustsweeper. We try to make it worth a few cents for when you flag abuse.

Do we need a direct incentive to flag? No. Just like a restaurant owner has no direct incentive to keep their store clean. They get paid to sell items on their menu. There's a direct incentive for that. There is no item on the menu for "clean the bathroom."

https://steemit.com/curation/@inertia/now-you-see-that-steem-power-will-always-triumph-because-influence-caps-are-dumb

I'm with @pfunk ... Many downvotes are needed and benefit the Steem community. This all said, limiting who can downvote might be good. I'd much rather leave downvoting to community approved people (witness approved?) rather than Joe Blow who just bought 100k steem and wants to downvote something.

To some extent, money shouldn't be able to topple the community, and it hasn't but there may be instances where a downvote is questioned. It would be less questioned if there were someone approved and responsible handling it, just so long as there were enough of such people to get the job done, or they could coordinate other accounts to downvote to achieve the intended result.

Well, if you limit who can downvote, you create a centralized system which can not fight well against censorship. And secondly, this does not stop a rich guy to buy himself a million dollars worth of Steem, power up, vote himself as a witness, then downvote whoever he wants :))

"money shouldn't be able to topple the community, and it hasn't..."

...but it is. I agree that there should be a team of content moderators that stand for the protection of freedom of expression and speech, all the while on the lookout for scams and spams. Call it censorship if you will, but whenever there is money involved, you need governance. History tells all.

You talks spooky but youre spot on!!!

STEEM Flags have their own issues , will probably have even more complicated issues in future when we have more people coming through the door.
The biggest issues I have seen are people flagging other's post because
a) they don't like what is being said.
b) they disagree with the ideology.

Hopefully as SP gets more distributed this topic resolves itself or maybe mini walled gardens powered by SMTS will solve it.

None of that is to say that there is a correlation between flag abilities and STEEM price . STEEM downvotes are not leaking to Bitcoin / other cryptos , it's a very obvious bear market ( cuz reasons).

Wishfull thinking, money talks and bullshit walks... with no new money entering this scheme, steem is dead...as it should be!!!

I love you too... matty-boy!!!

Too bad your botnet is weak as fuck :-/.

lol, it's just a distraction...and a puzzle... attention is priceless...

And you sir @nokodemion have been flagged for NO REASON other than someone disagrees with you. Case and point!

The only people deceiving are those abusing their downvote power. AHEM.

So how many side distractions until this feckless fucknut finally gets around to leave this platform?

Downvoting something you don't like in order to uphold your investment is like having Google not allowing ads by Amazon and Apple because it conflicts the interest of Google Home. Very childish and immature business.

How can Steem compete with the incumbent tech behemoths if it is so afraid to see even its own shadow?

First, I appreciate the critical comment. I don't agree that is a fair analogy though.

My comment and downvote are in response to a post that I see as disingenuously blaming a necessary feature of Steem on the decline of the market price. Bullshit populist appeals like this can be extremely effective if people don't immediately call them out for what they are.

what steem coin this work

Yes, yes and yes... there is truth in all this, steem is a setup...

so if I am Buzzfeed and issue Buzztokens , my competitors will buy them first and then down-vote my content ?

But they already invested in the content by proxy and why would they set fire to their own money ?

Its called greed, what they dont get, those folks on the top, is that with farming the reward pool like they do from day 1, they are killing steem....

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I think I am one of the biggest proponent of what I call negative curation (flags/downvotes) as a way to improve efficiency of content curation. The main problem with flags is that they don't happen enough and people get startled when they get a big one.

If you'd like to engage in a voice debate about the subject I could make myself available. You can find me on discord.

BTW, In your video you ask us to check back at the trending to see many example of unfair flagging. I looked back at least 5 pages (7 day back) to see any significant amount of flagging. Most post have zero flags, do you think it's normal to have 2000 upvotes on a post and and not get a single downvote?

Have a look for yourself, this UI show flagging of 5$ or more, Nothing is flagged. https://steem-sincerity.dapptools.info/trending-analysis

@transisto I would love to see a back and forth with large Steemians like you and @jerrybanfield. I will be here on STEEMIT no matter what other people do and power down and leave. I am just a little guy that tries very hard to put up some content each day. Thank you for what you do and others do to make STEEMIT a great place to be.

@JerryBanfield would dominate because he is use to public speaking and is actually a user of steem. From what I can tell @transisto is someone who mined steem early on. Now he just runs a voting bot and downvotes.

Spot on!!! Dont fall asleep...it's a scheme, a setup to lurk us minnows from our money...

Dude, he even sells his upvotes, why not give it to content creators.

Why not sell his steem and invest in another coin?

Why does having money mean someone owes it to give to you?

Many investors in cryptocurrency to save and invest their money. Not even sure why some of the big whales stay on this site when all they get is hate.

I can't answer that question,

but jerry banfield already faced some of these issues

You seem to be suffering from dissociative identity disorder. Don't worry, I take these illnesses seriously and will not judge you.

I am completely at loss to understand why my posts are being flagged

Remember that day you decided to boost a form of plagiarism to the trending page, then got caught? Do you remember, about twelve hours ago, how you were acting confused about these flags so I reminded you of this incident? That comment is near the bottom of this comment section.

I personally believe once you come to terms with the fact you screwed up that day and stop blocking it from your memory, you'll find yourself feeling a lot less confused about this situation. From there you'll realize you're not actually a victim of anything other than the consequences of your own actions. Then, maybe, you'll stop harassing people and all flags will cease because showing signs of honesty and integrity should never be considered behavior worthy of a flag.

Good luck to you, sir.

Haha I have no idea about this story I just wanted to say that was an amazingly written response. Poetic even. haha

I'm not speaking for the particular situation which I have zero knowledge but just the life concepts!!

You are waking up the users with your clarity using words...thats not allowed...

Why do you ask me? I'm not the one who flagged your post.

I am so sick of your scams and bullshit Jerry. It has been really depressing to see the community thinks you should be a top 20 witness. I have held off too long to do this, but you are blacklisted from @buildawhale which should trickle down to other bid bots that support my blacklist.

You are an incompetent witness and a plague to the platform. There is a reason you have been banned from most platforms you have been part of (your words not mine).

Seeing you in power down mode gave me great joy thinking there was a remote chance you would take your scams and bullshit elsewhere.

https://steemit.com/buildawhale/@buildawhale/buildawhale-blacklist-update-special-edition

@themarkymark is abusing the system so bad it's been going on for a while now there is even videos on YouTube people talking about how they have been affected by @themarkymark
@steemcleaners need to put a stop to this he's making money by spamming people with @badcontent it's not right at all please put a stop to this it's not good for @steemit @blockchain @steepshot @busy @dlive @dmaina @dtube @zappl

Those people are called "plagiarists", "copy/pasters", "comment farmers", and other types whose main goal is to steal from the reward pool and make it so people like you get less rewards.

Idiot, wake up, those whales are the reward pool farmers.... put skin in the game and see how you will be fucked by them...

Message me on discord about your mack-bot flags bro

Yep but he is an authority on what is good content because he runs a voting bot.

thanks I'm watching now almost at the end. Great breakdown of past behavior which matches with what he is doing to @JerryBanfield

He dun it to he wants to run the blockchain

As they say power goes to people's head

Yes, Yes Yes, mirror mirror on the wall, @themarkymark is one of the biggest idiots on steem....

I call bullshit.

My last stand up comedy video on Steem was a perfect test case here to demonstrate that censorship is alive and well on Steem.

I clicked the link. It's not censored. You're a liar.

On top of that, most people's early creative efforts are crap which then gets called spam and gets downvoted here.

Most? That's bullshit. You're a liar.

Several big Steem power holders spend the majority of their time "killing accounts" and trying to shut up authors like me that post anything potentially disagreeable.

Several? That's bullshit and you just threw many undeserving individuals under the bus for no reason.

Downvoted Investors + Authors Eventually Sell Everything

I had a post flagged away, a long time ago. Look who's still here. So that's bullshit.

Therefore our best option to communicate how much we disagree is to power down and sell Steem to lower the value as much as possible to motivate those holding on forever to make whatever change is necessary to keep the people happy and to allow those buying in to have more influence per dollar invested.

So let me get this straight. If I don't agree with the rewards you receive for this seemingly scammy and anti-social behavior here today, you'll simply threaten my investment by encouraging others to dump and that won't stop until I meet your demands? And all this just because you're pouting about something and feel like going on a power trip?

The other option is, you'll power down and leave?

Okay. See ya!

P.S. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

You're a bit of a legend - one of the few people to get a full-power downvote from @freedom.

P.S. I can only imagine what your username would be if you signed up today instead of when you did.

Two posts got hit that day, so two full power freedom flags. I think it was because I used the f-word too many times while writing a joke about the f-word. If I remember correctly, I lost potential rewards(not money), but the situation gave me something to write about, which I did, and did it well, so I made some money that way.

The whole situation was a blessing in disguise. People say these flags are censorship but in reality, when a post gets smashed into smithereens with flags like mine did that day, it's much like a train wreck or a car crash. And what do people do when they see a car crash on the streets? They gawk. People want to know what happened, so they look. Since the posts aren't censored after being flagged, people can then conclude with, "Oh. So that's what happened there. Cool."

A blogger needs attention in order to be successful. That situation put a lot of eyes on my blog, so I carried on and made over 22k SP. Whatever! Thanks for the flags!

I didn't pout, I didn't take it personally, I didn't go attempt to retaliate. There was no need to give up and since I like to prove people wrong, I stuck around and did just that.

I'm glad you brought that up. My real life experience and what Jerry is saying here today, well, night and day difference.

As for the name, I'd probably be NoNamesLeftToUse12 by now.

You got a Freedom flag!? Wow youre sooo lucky.. :) jk

Anyways, on topic at hand. Flags have nothing to do with censorship even in a plutocratic society Steem is.
A "flag" is voicing an opinion. A negative one. Based on your own evaluation of the post, the rewards, its trending placement... etc.

What Jerry is asking for is a safe space ..
Taking away the ability of others to speak with their stake on what they want and do not want on this platform.

Taking away flags is an attack on freedom of speech in its purest form.

And the arguments he makes... Terrible. "The biggest danger for Steem"... "steem would be at 10USD if not for flags"....

No, just no. People that get the most flags are the ones that are doing something really wrong or its just drama. People have a right to have drama fights and everything that comes with it.

His credibility was thrown out the window the moment he took the irrational sensationalist approach while going as far as choosing to use his this is an emergency tone of voice commonly heard in advertisements selling chemical cleaners designed to rid the world of stains.

Jerry is asking for a pub he can go to where anti-social behavior isn't thrown out the door by a bouncer. He wants to get drunk and start grabbing women's asses without consequence. So let's think about a pub like that for a second. It wouldn't take long before people hear about these gropers, and they'd simply decide to go somewhere else more civilized. Sure, the pub fills up with more people like Jerry out looking for asses to grab, but there aren't any asses left to grab, then those ass grabbers stop going to the pub, and the place goes out of business. If they would have hired a bouncer, they'd still be in business, because there are far more good, wholesome, decent, civilized types walking the earth than there are savage ass grabbers so it's better for business to get rid of that minority and embrace the good ones.

That's the real world right there. This place isn't much different. Jerry obviously needs to get out more.

Hahaha. By putting the bouncer at the door youre censoring their "bottom-grabbing"... And censorship is bad.
Its not only that you arent allowed to have a bouncer at the door, youre not allowed to even say something....
Thats how far this "remove flags" argument goes.

They censored my cigarettes and now I have to go outside to smoke.

It really does not. Censorship is institutional. It requires a government or organization effort to suppress speech.
When an individual uses a flag he is using his vote to make a statement on the content in question.

Would you call any negative response to an argument, a claim, content censorship?

No. Flags are pure freedom and need to remain. Removing them takes you in the opposite direction of freedom of speech.

It would be a terrible day if they decide to remove flags. Truly would.
Atm thats the only way the community has towards fighting spam and trash content.

What you consider "trash" is another man's treasure.

 2 years ago (edited)Reveal Comment

You bring up good points, these are things I end up discussing quite a lot. They are valid objections in my opinion.

But they are answerable.

1 ) from a rewards point of view, this is the simplest case. until payout, there is a completely open system wide vote on the rewards to be granted to each post, as a proportion of the rewards pool, with each voter enabled to vote to strength according their stake.

Both up and down votes are permitted. No one can take away rewards, as rewards are set at payout time and delivered to the rewarded account. In the seven day window between posting and payout (apart from the last few hours) the voting is open and active.

It is a failing of the main Steem UI steemit.com for setting the tone on both (a) down votes as flags, and (b) encouraging users to see pending rewards as guaranteed rewards, i.e. that their rewards can only track upwards. I've written about both many times and at length before, but that's the gist and is very straight forward.

2 ) posts which have pending or final rewards of zero or less are represented in the steemit.com UI (and all the main others I think) as less visually drawn attention to, collapsed etc. All that is required to show them is a click. An additional click is then needed to show the images.

I don't deny that this has a big effect on whether people choose to read the posts. @valued-customer successfully argued against me that this is not censorship, it is. It is however very very light. There can be scales of censorship and I would not consider this to be Censorship with a capital C. That is the so-called institutional censorship, total blocking of content, deletion, book burning, prohibition from writing or publishing, even imprisonment.

What we have here is better viewed as ordering and prioritization. It is a UI decision that's similar to putting porn in a cover which obscures the cover. This is a real practice. Would you say that this porn is censored? Kind of is the best answer. It's still possible to get, the hurdle is minor. But does it put some people of viewing it at all? Undoubtedly.

Again this is down to the UI. Don't like it? Make your own. The actual blockchain doesn't do this, or any form of censorship. It's important to make that distinction. It can't be more important.

3 ) this to be is a red herring. We can't peer inside people's minds to gauge their motivation. We stick to the facts and assume nothing.

Do you think the current downvote function have no negative side to it, and that it cannot and is not being misused?

The negative side is that if someone with a lot of SP want to remove your rewards they can. The balance is that you can buy stake to counteract that yourself. If you can't afford it, you can appeal to other large stakeholders you may be able to go by social means to embarrass them or enlist some people to counter it.

That's just from a practical point of view though. Systematically this is the hard reality of Steem, decisions are upheld by stake.

Well it seems @mack-bot disagrees.
Would you say that.... lets see.. Scientology shouldnt have the right to attack those that attack it? And those that attack the practices of Scientology dont have the right to do so?

Look.. I know getting flags is tough, but if you want free speech you need to have a system in place that allows for those that object to something to have an effect on that, just like in real life..
The reward pool isnt a given. The rewards arent your money, or my "money"... We all share the reward pool and we should all have the right based on our stake, individual or grouped to say where those rewards should go to.
This is as simple as it gets.
The flag system is a must.
Its a shame most people dont use it fully.

And no... i dont think the system can be misused. Absolutely not. Vendettas or anything in that regard arent misuses of the system. Not at all.
Not liking someone and flagging him/her is a shitty thing to do, but we should have that right..
If that goes too far there are corrective measures.

This is a social media website and if you for example came after me (not that i think you would) for dunno, disagreements that would lead to a reaction and a normalization would occur eventually.
What you did to anger the @mack-bot i have no idea, but i hardly believe that the situation cannot be resolved fairly easily.

If you were hollier then holly, then the community would eventually stand up for you out of personal benefit of having such a person and Mackbot would backdown, out of self interest.

No... Flags are a must. Has nothing to do with censorship. But has everything to do with free speech.

It's on the blockchain ... your web interface is likely Steemit.com??
They have an algorithm that chooses to hide posts.

There are other interfaces to the steem blockchain. Would you prefer that there be one that Does Not hide flagged posts?

How would you like to see it go down as far as hiding or not hiding posts?

 2 years ago Reveal Comment

Maybe we can just start a new tab called Flagged and it works opposite of trending the most flagged post goes to the top. Users can see it and upvote if they feel it is worth payout.

Simple fix to fix the entire issue without removing the most useful feature on the platform.

K @warjar so I work on @steempeak ... we have filter out (hide) NSFW as an option in settings and we can easily put in Hide low voted comments or low reputation users. I think that's a fair request.

I want to hide them personally because there's so much to go through as it is and i'd love to not have to sort out the spam but I think I'm actually with you giving people the decision to hide what they want making it their own decision.

So... the question for you (and others)
Should a user be able to hide what they are exposed to only? Or should they have more control on their own blog post as well? I'm not saying total control... but should they have some sort of say at least?

Your saying well

You're not.

Well, well, well.

😎

Hey @nonameslefttouse, I'm following you and yesterday i read your blog related to art and creativity that was one of the best blog of that day. and I hope you will be enjoying your passion. But I think your creativity is unique and everyone should appreciate your art.. I m waiting for your next blog..
love & support @nonameslefttouse
Don't miss to follow and upvote on my blog @devkapoor423

Democracy has always been a number game around the world ! I reckon social media too is now no different. Ive come across quite a few posts highlighting censorship as one issue & one that makes a couple of them leave the platform! I'm quite new here to comment as I do not have a first hand experience however freedom of expression should not be trivial - just a thought !

Democracy does not exist. It's plutocracy.

Lool Yes I agree - 100% its a frustrating fact but it nice to see people realizing this & putting in baby steps to get out of the damn !

It's low because it wanted me to buy. And I did

I hope @Haejin and others go so I can watch people cry as value tanks and small users go to platforms like ONO

Yes, it would be great to see the abusive and whiner types leave this place and take their attitude problems to the competition. I'm looking forward to it. This place will be a lot better without them and their entitlement issues. Steemit would be left with more hard working individuals who appreciate the platform and all it has to offer and that would attract more people like that who care about their investments, and this place will eventually thrive. Success attracts more success so if we can get rid of the some of the trash here, I'm looking forward to it.

lol that idea makes me laugh. Oh no the people making the system bad are going to move their behavior to the competition, what will we do. I wonder if they will send them back.

I've been in management and other various leadership roles for quite a few years. Since many have to work to earn around here, they're not much different than employees. When disgruntled employees start throwing hissy fits and threatening to leave the establishment to go work for a competitor, the best thing to do is hold the door open for them. They won't ever change, because that's just how they are under any circumstance, so they'll take their negative attitudes with them, and that's good for business because you get rid of problems and give them to the competition.

Jerry did the same thing here in his post today. Good riddance! I'll hold the door open for him, no problem. He said he wants to leave, not us. He gave everyone here an ultimatum, but in reality, he gave himself that ultimatum. Now he can either stay true to his word, or stick around and be known as an even bigger bullshitter for making empty threats. He just keeps digging his hole deeper and deeper and he'll have to make some serious changes to be ever to climb out of it. Again, he made that choice. Not us.

That has to be the glue that holds the corruption together.

I know this is controversial, but I believe this is further evidence of the need for decriminalization of cannabis.

Hi there. I'm a busy guy. If you have something say, say it. These little pointless one liners you're leaving under my comments don't make much sense, unfortunately, so I don't really know what you're talking about and can't respond until things are clear.

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Your post has nothing to do with the discussion here. Flagged for shameless self promotion.

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Oh Jerry, please stop sending your shit ideas to trending. You get flagged because you take advantage of people who are new to Steemit and create shit content.

You try to tell people that you are a stand up comic, a musician and a Steemit expert. You are none of these things. All you are is a failed get rich quick "guru" and a scam artist.

Let's hope we see you drop below 50 in the witness ranks soon.

That's cute, Jerry used one of his alt accounts to flag me.

i don't use this much but +1

Flagging helps stop the scammers and plagiarists from taking a cut of the reward pool away from the people who care. Yes this is the primary reason for doing it. I think that this is a good thing because the people trying to take an easy ride by stealing others works are not here to make Steemit a better place, a lot of these people just want to make a quick buck. This in itself is a bad thing because they are the ones who will sell Steem for any price. We need people holding Steem, this increases price as there's less being sold.

People who really believe in Steem do not sell all their Steem. FACT, they power up.

Removing flags will be a nightmare because more people (dolphins+whales) will start spending hundreds, even thousands on bid bots without having to worry about being flagged, this in turn will reduce the reward pool share for the little fish. Flagging trash increases funds for everyone else. If everyone flagged trash, it would make Steemit a better place for the people who care. Flagging also teaches newbies who are here for an easy ride to evolve, often they start posting legitimate content, which improves Steemit.

Everything you say seems to scream personal gain, I just think that you want flagging removed for your own gain, not to help everyone else.

Removing flagging is a terrible idea. I vote NO.

You’re a witness who is advocating removal of downvotes. That’s why you lost your top 20 slot.

I asked you if you were willing to consider if you were wrong about the idea. You said no. So I removed my vote. Then you started to act like maybe it was something you’d consider discussing.

Too late, man.

What do you mean?

The answer is obvious @inertia, you don't have a trending post with you shirtless on a video. That has to be it.

Your type of accounts are the exact reason why I could never support getting rid of flags.

You've plagiarised @blocktrades shamelessly, not only through the avatar (very silly to do) but also through copying and pasting their posts.

So to me your existence says one of two things.

  • you are pretending to be an exchange to hopefully have someone send you steem or sbd by mistake (very unlikely)
  • you have absolutely no clue what this whole ecosystem is all about and think there is merit to copying and pasting articles from other steem accounts.

Either choice is pathetic in my opinion.

So your existence, once again, Proofs the need for flags.

Congratulations in pissing in your own punch bowl.

Your last trending post wasn't stand up comedy Jerry. It was you having a shit rant about getting hated on because you suck your own dick.

And removing the ability to flag someone for receiving rewards that they don't deserve isn't censorship. It's the community determining what a person deserves for their content, which is perfect. The community should absolutely decide how rewards are distributed.

You should not be a recipient of any rewards. You are a scam artist and a terrible representative for Steemit. I was so happy to see you drop from witness rank 22 to 31 over the past week. That speaks volumes about what people think of you here.

Sooo... I took the time to read this angry rant, but couldn't muster the willpower to watch the video you made, you know, the so-called stand-up comedy. Do you realize that's on there forever now, as Steem isn't likely to budge even one fraction of an inch because of this lengthy threat of yours? Look, I was even willing to stay fairly neutral on your typical whale-behavior and bid-bot abuse in my angry rant about egotistical behavior on an blockchain that's designed to have maximum growth if everybody just acted with that community in mind instead of just their own pockets. If you're really the sport you say you are, if you even have the slightest sense of humor and if you have but a fraction of the concern for others you claim to have, you'll read, upvote, resteem and comment on this post: Sh*t-Post! Read At Own Risk! (Braincells Might Perish!). This might be a first small step toward redemption...

Now that we have that shameless plug of my own post, which I know you'll appreciate since plugging yourself is all you seem to do, out of the way let me say that you're not doing yourself or your brothers in arms any good by posting this. "Do as I say or I will leave" doesn't really work well on a community of people that found each-other mainly because of a shared longing for freedom. Most of us are mature enough to realize that there's no such thing as "absolute" freedom of any kind, not even the oral or verbal kind. When your freedom to say what you want hinders my freedom to do the same, you're actually not advocating freedom, you're advocating hierarchy. You're right that one negative experience leaves a bigger impression than 10 positive ones, but that's life my friend and goes for a lot more than just upvotes or flags.

This is also the reason why almost all of us are very hesitant to use that flag-option: we know how it must feel. I never ever flagged anyone in all 3 months I've been active here and The Lord (Jerry?) knows I've seen a lot of crap that doesn't deserve the insane earnings they accumulated. Oh wait... I did flag someone once: I flagged myself just as a fun experiment, to see what it does.

What I'm trying to say here is that "normal" posts don't get flagged under normal circumstances. From what I've seen it's mostly comments that fall in the "beggar" category or the "spam" category being downvoted by spam-bots or blatant copying by the (in)famous cheetah bot, like "I like this post a lot! I upvoted it too! Can you please upvote and follow me too?" copy-pasted in 100 posts. If those users used that energy to make a picture of the street they live in and tell a funny anekdote on what happened there yesterday, they would make the same small amount of money if their obvious free-ride comments were being left alone. They would even have a chance at the occasional massive upvotes if they strike gold with a particularly beautiful photograph or funny text. Then they would be starting with relative crap, but getting better over time.

You really have to do something really insulting, harmful to the blockchain or otherwise do something so bad, that people get over that initial hesitance and actually flag your post. That's my experience until now and I like it that way. Sure it's not perfect and something needs to be done about the misuse of economical power that now fil