RE: "I Got Downvoted!?! It's Not Fair! Can You Help Me???"
Luke I hear what you are saying, but I don't think you really understand the effect of some of the down voting that occurs. People and their feelings are not math. I have a very thick skin, but I have been disturbed by some of the down voting that occurred with my account. One troll user decided to go through my posts and comments and remove almost all of my rewards for 7 days because they did not like one comment that I made on their hateful attack post they had created. They also used bots to help them do this. They then went on to call me a motherfucking retard on my future comments not related to anything to do with them. Just imagine how a new person would feel if this happened to them and they did not have the thick skin I have. Bullies can use written abuse and down voting to not only emotionally hurt people but financially hurt people. That is a powerful combination.
Each same thing happened to me. Especially as a small account with about 500sp it's was a huge turn off from the site. Being targeted by people with 100k sp and losing everything I had worked for that week. Luckily I have a thick skin but it would definitely force some people to leave altogether with abusive behaviour like that.
I have no problem with flag used for the purpose intended and keeping steemit clean but used maliciously the can be dangerous.
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I get that completely. As I said, I was downvoted in an automated way for about three months from a big whale. They even did it in the last 12 hours before payout because, previously, those downvotes couldn't be offset by new upvotes. It was done with the purpose of being vindictive. They included plenty of name calling as well. We can't force others to be nice to us, like us, or treat us with respect. Everyone can use their stake-weighted vote to reward good content or cause people emotional harm. The problem I'm hoping more people realize is that the "financially harm people" is just an incorrect perception and expectation. The money isn't "yours" so it can't be taken away from you (regardless of what the interface displays). Until it pays out, it belongs to everyone.
One way I've found to get around this limitation of the interface is to simply hide payouts for a while. See this post for more on that: Do You Care Too Much About Steemit Blogging Rewards? Find Out Here.
Either way, you were treated badly and that's terrible. I hope more of the community will come together to counter that behavior and give corresponding upvotes to combat these vindictive downvotes that have nothing to do with good content discovery and rewards distribution via Proof of Brain.
While people and their feelings are not math, the blockchain is. This is a blockchain. If we choose to interact with and be governed by it, we'll do well to recognize that reality instead of fighting against it. The problem isn't the code, it's our emotions and the fact that some people express their needs poorly.
"The problem isn't the code...." I would disagree. It allows bullies to use the system to abuse the rewards people would normally receive for their efforts. This can have a massive effect on people new to Steemit. The bullies almost always have more SP than the new people they are abusing. They are able to crush the little recognition a new user has received. Again this is not math it is psychological and powerful.
Without downvotes, those same bullies can take too much of the rewards pool for themselves because no one can disagree with them. It sounds like you want your cake and to eat it too. Downvotes are an important part of how this system functions. I linked to the white paper in my post. If you haven't read it lately, you may want to give it another read to better understand where I'm coming from.
I get how this has an effect on people new to Steemit. I'm simply saying, if they want to interact in this new blockchain world, they may need to understand some fundamentals, even if their own emotional responses, initially, reject them. If you're implying the answer is new small accounts shouldn't be downvotable by the blockchain rules, then take a look at the reports of account farms which create thousands of accounts and use those tiny upvotes to take rewards from all of us, including those new users. If we don't protect the value in the collaborative commons, it won't survive as value.
The value we have here isn't magical. It exists because of the story of value this blockchain creates. If there's no downvote to protect it and prevent people from extracting it, then the value will be extracted over time destroying it for us all.
I understand you are trying to explain how the code works. What you are not understanding is the code has a problem when it comes in contact with bullies. I do not have a code solution to offer you. I can just offer you a real world example of how the code is being abused.
And that's the problem. Many say "Look, this thing is broken!" without bringing any solutions. This is a blockchain. That's the reality. Until we change the rules of the chain with code, reality doesn't change. I never denied people get harmed by bad actors. I don't yet know of any code changes which would make that any better. Therefore, it is reality right now. Accepting reality is the best thing we can do.
Bricks can be used to build houses or break windows.
Cars can be used to get us around or run people over.
Blaming an object for how it is used makes no sense. If we can improve the object (make cars safer, etc) then let's do it! Pointing out that we have to live with cars and bricks as they exist right now and adjust our expectations accordingly doesn't mean those things aren't used by bullies.
The answer, IMO, isn't to ban bricks and cars (or downvotes).
Thank you for blaming me for not having a solution. I wish you the best.
It’s easy to complain. Hard to solve problems. I’m not blaming you, just holding you to a higher standard of bringing solutions, not just problems. I wish you the best as well. The very best.
Hopefully we can revisit this conversation in the future and evaluate whatever solutions have come up and if they are working or not to improve on the problems you and I both understand.
??? Code Change, it's by design. Who are those bullies?
I bet, they are not these thousands of newcomers, that came, saw, and run for their lives...
Its the 1% on the steem blockchain, right?
I certainly think this is an opportunity to learn more about people and their actions. I do see both of your points of view.
When it comes to being damaged by others actions, that say a court of law might recognize, especially in the case Ethan mentioned. I could see some basis but if we look at the bigger picture, which is where I think Luke is suggesting it does suggest we each need to spend a little more time building a community that participates regularly.
I learned a great deal from this post and appreciate the time and the discussion.
Thanks!
Thanks for reading. :)
It's interesting to me how much the conversation here has a broader context in terms of social justice, trigger warnings, word policing, micro aggressions, etc, etc. Most of these topics are understood academically and connected to actual human pain responses and harm, but also widely misunderstood (and abused) in culture at large. Instead of inoculating themselves, some try to control the actions of others and create a bubble reality for themselves. In the long run, IMO, it ends up being unhealthy. We have to find the balance of protecting those who are vulnerable while also helping people fully heal themselves and not be victims to every action of others, allowing others to control their emotional state.
Having just reas this (very interesting thread) I basically agree.... so many people are brought up being overly protected and shielded from the harsh reality that a minority of people are bullies.
If we were all interacting equally with another 100 people a month (hypothetical e.g.) and not shielded from the unpleasant ones, at least 1-2 interactions would be thoroughly unpleasant.
I guess steem just brings us into a wider network and makes our exposure to assholes more likely.
It's an unavoidable consequence of the freedom and opporrunity it also brings.
As you say, getting over a flag (or letting it go) is best....while maybe keeping a dispassionate reign on the assholes in conjunction with others.
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Well said!
Thanks... I could have gone on, but suffice to say for now that this is all food for thought for sure!
Also easy for me to say when I've only ever had one teeny tiny malicious flag.
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Thanks... I could have gone on, but suffice to say for now that this is all food for thought for sure!
Also easy for me to say when I've only ever had one teeny tiny malicious flag.
But I'll certainly keep this mind if I ever get worse treatment in the future.
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Well said!
And again, thanks!
Just call it what it is... why are you still so decent. :)