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RE: Suggestions on how we can improve Steem.

in #steem5 years ago

Justin (@justinsunsteemit) made a pledge to bring Steem to more exchanges in the world, to make it more accessible, to bring it to mobile, to grow the platform and to integrate the features. He has repeatedly affirmed that he wants to improve the platform and help the community.

Where has he said that he intends to break up this community and chain?

From what I can see, that is pure propaganda by witnesses who were very comfortable, and forgot what this is and how it works. Witnesses who committed a hostile action and then faced consequences for those actions. What did they think would happen when they did that? Did they not know who Justin is?

I have not seen evidence of what you are insinuating here. I have only seen a similar sentiment repeated and being used as propaganda.

I have yet to see it substantiated.

While some people did invest a lot of time and effort into Steem, let's face the facts. It hasn't taken off. There are a lot of very major problems(including infighting) that have been going on for some time. These have not been solved, nor does it look like they would be solved without an intervention of some sort. As well the "value" of Steem has experienced a steady decline(likely as a consequence of the continued problems).

I based my response on your comment:"I could say I feel offended of all your previous posts I've read and manually curated for you to turn against what I believe is the communities well being." Why else would you say such a thing if it weren't to imply I betrayed people who you feel I owe something to?

Are you in denial of the major issues that Steem has been facing(prior to this)?
Can you not see that things were not being properly solved or handled(how long is it reasonable to sit by and wait)?
Can you not see the continued downward trend(how much more should the value plummet)?
Can you not see how and how many new users were being driven away each and every day because of how things are(the system is currently set up to actively discourage new users and their content)?

I do not like how this was handled. I believed witnesses could have worked with Justin and been able to make a precautionary fork with his agreement(I honestly do believe he would have agreed.) Instead of taking hostile action against him, in secret, behind his back. What did they expect would happen? He is the major shareholder.

Also, we cannot blame him for something @ned did or didn't do. How does this make sense? Did we even know for sure that Justin knew about Ned's agreement? And what of how Ned was treated? Should there not have been some respect, some recognition for what he was trying to do? Was he supposed to stay true to his word no matter what, forever? I can't understand why people cannot connect action to consequence. I still am not surprised one bit that Ned sold his shares. What do people seriously expect? And, the way people talk about him now, further proves the point.

If you think Justin is the first-ever person to look at Steem in terms of how he can make money with it, you are mistaken. We had/have people like that here as witnesses, as investors, as members.

I feel a bit silly to point this out, but, Steem is a business. You know that right? It won't run without money. To some degree, it has to be and should be treated like a business in order to continue to be viable.

And, it was never truly decentralized. It never was. I, nor the average user never had any say. None.

My bottom line is that I want things to change.

-Some of the witnesses really need to adjust their attitudes. The way they treat members is absolutely deplorable. There has to be some degree of professionalism. Leaders must lead by example. Not with rudeness. Not as tyrants(it's kind of comical that they are now calling Justin a tyrant, when they themselves behaved in the exact same manner).
-Witnesses need to make a public and transparent commitment to implement changes.
-No more secret collisions.
-No more infighting.

They are either fighting for the community or they are not. If they are not, they need to go!

I want transparency. Complete transparency.

No more shady shit. No more!

I have monitored wallets. I have seen with my own eyes, delegations that were supposed to/promised to be used to "help" people being used instead to make money which was then moved out of Steem(and to market) on a regular basis(with no notice to members or the delegators). This whole operation was dressed up under the guise of "helping" people.

Seeing this was damaging. It breached my trust. It has made me question every single time someone says they are "helping" the users of Steem. If someone, if anyone is making money like this, they need to be honest about it. They need to be transparent about it.

Almost every community "pays" their curators (albeit some are paying in shit coins). The curating accounts themselves were making profits off of those curations. The curating member themselves, if they vote on content they curate for a community, then, also make a profit. So painting it as purely helping people is deceitful. They may indeed be "helping" people but it is not solely out of the kindness of their hearts. There is a financial incentive for doing so. It is not a completely selfless act.

If there is evidence, real evidence, not assumption, not fear-mongering, not manipulation, nor propaganda. If there is actual, real evidence that Justin has ill intent, please present it.

This is why transparency is essential. We are supposed to be a "community". We as members, all have a right to know what is going on. Why are all the meetings not public? Why are they not available for everyone?
I have a right to know which witness says what. Where witnesses stand on different issues. Who is it that I am voting for.

Otherwise, what am I basing my vote on? Am I basing it on what I am being fed? No. No more. I have been fed enough lies at this point to not comply with this any further.

You can't be angry or shocked or disappointed if people don't agree with you, if they, as you claim, don't have all the facts to work with. I can't work with things that are withheld from my sight. Bring them to my sight instead of just telling me I am wrong and that you are shocked. How is that valuable to me? It's not, it just looks like an attempt to guilt and bully me into submission.

Look, if we have complete transparency from this point forward. If witnesses pledged and promised to work together in the best interest of Steem and the community. If all witnesses made an effort to lead by example(putting their egos aside). If witnesses acknowledged the problems and pledged to find solutions with the community's input. Then, I will consider changing my votes. Until then, I am left with no choice but to vote with someone who pledges to make the changes that I, as a member want.

I knew from watching and listening to the chats that users who were voting Justin's witnesses were being hunted. That someone would come to try convince me to change my mind. I banked on that. It's why I did it. If people are not willing to listen, if they are not willing to work with community members what other recourse is there?

If making a protest is the only way that I can make my voice heard, then fine. What other recourse am I left with?

I am strong enough. People can call me names, curse me, make fun of me, degrade me, like they have done to others(I've watched it happen). I am just hopeful that by chance someone out there actually can listen and will do something to make changes. Whether or not that happens, we will have to wait and see.

But yes, in general, I think slinging insults, calling people Commies, and other disgusting names, does not produce favorable results. And yet, people feel entitled to do so, despite it not being in the best interest of Steem.

This whole experience has been very eye-opening for me. It's sad. It really is.

This may kill Steem. I know people keep saying that Justin will kill Steem, but by their behavior, they are making that happen all by themselves. If I was an investor looking now, I would not join the community. I would avoid it.

As an investor, my trust has been breached.

As a member, my trust has been breached.

I want change.

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Also, we cannot blame him for something @ned did or didn't do. How does this make sense? Did we even know for sure that Justin knew about Ned's agreement?

First, they signed a Non-Disclosure-Agreement, so they'll both never tell.

Second,

Crypto Briefing reached out to Ned Scott about the move by Tron. Surprisingly, the former CEO seemed supportive of the action by Justin Sun, saying that “witnesses/portion of the community literally stole its [Steemit Inc’s] coins [which is demonstrably false, nobody "stole coins", they only hobbled Sun's "voting-power"]. Steemit owed them nothing.” He continued, “Steemit owes no one anything and anything else is grasping at straws / bullying to get your way/power… Fact: no pre mine, no investors.”

The Steem community was outraged by Scott’s comments, saying that over Steem’s four-year history that the founder had promised [apparently a non-binding verbal agreement] that these coins would be used to “decentralize” and wouldn’t be used in voting.

https://cryptobriefing.com/tron-executes-hostile-takeover-steem-exchanges-collude/

Yeah, I figured we will never truly know what was or wasn't said between Ned and Justin. Having said that how can we form any conclusions either way about what was said?

Yes, he is saying "Steemit" doesn't owe them anything. He is not saying "Steem" doesn't owe them anything. I did not look back to see how "they" acquired their original power. I can't say whether or not they stole coins or did something shady. To me, "their" integrity does come into question because I have personally seen scams, unfair, shady business practice here on Steem.

I honestly do not know at this point which witnesses are good and which are not. The lack of transparency is a heavy contributor to this.

Yeah, I figured we will never truly know what was or wasn't said between Ned and Justin. Having said that how can we form any conclusions either way about what was said?

We can know what they said because CEO's are simple ego-powered machines that are only interested in two things.

(1) MAKE MORE MONEY AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE

(2) HUMILIATE COMPETITORS

We can know what they said because NOBODY (especially a CEO) would buy a property unless they could (EITHER) MAKE MORE MONEY QUICKLY (OR) HUMILIATE COMPETITORS.

We can know what they said because NOBODY (especially a CEO) would buy a property in order to "help build a community of idealistic rapscallions who believe in decentralized governance".

CEO = EXECUTIVE POWER = CENTRALIZED CONTROL

"Decentralized Governance" is anathema to their very existence on all levels.

CEO will crush anyone who questions them.

Yes, Steem is a business. At the end of the day that is what it is. It, by its very nature is designed to make money. Any business person interested in Steem would very likely be interested because they are interested in making money. People were terribly terribly naive about all of this. In my opinion, Steem, was never truly decentralized. It's a nice thought, but it wasn't reality.
I do not see a difference between how Justin reacted and how the witnesses behaved. It seems extremely similar to me.
Man, I wish we lived in a world where things that are good and right were actually a priority and promoted. How naive is that though? Bah, wrong planet!
Yes, the last line of what you said covers why our witnesses should perhaps more carefully considered not pissing Justin off. More bees with honey. I don't know what they were thinking!!!

I do not like how this was handled. I believed witnesses could have worked with Justin and been able to make a precautionary fork with his agreement(I honestly do believe he would have agreed.)

Justin Sun basically did the same thing to TRON. Like most CEO's he doesn't "negotiate" when he's holding all the cards.

The Tron (TRX) community was beside itself on Wednesday, Feb. 19 after founder Justin Sun’s address was shown to have voted in two Tron Foundation apps as a Super Representative (SR). Both Tron-Ace and Tron-Bet were voted in as Super Representatives by the Zion address, the same account which received 99 billion TRX from the coin’s genesis block [ninjamine].

https://cointelegraph.com/news/tron-community-in-uproar-as-genesis-coins-used-in-super-reps-vote

So based on fears of things he has done in the past, perceptions of things he has done in the past we can know what he will do in the future, yes? Well, that's an interesting approach. I guess we can write me off, what I say, and my opinion, in that case too. I have made mistakes in my life. I have done things in my life others may not perceive in a positive light. I have done things people may not understand.

If I was Justin, I would perhaps no longer negotiate at this point. Not with the way he has been treated. Not with the continued disrespect, mockery, and insults.

I personally would have a hard time moving forward with the witnesses after this point. How do you work with people who think the worst of you? Who don't respect you? Who insult you to your face and behind your back? Are they even receptive enough to be "negotiated" with?

When I look at this , I think back to working on the boards of non-profits. I think back to the infighting. How hard it was to get things done in an efficient expedient manner. How much nonsense I and others had to wade through to get things done. There were definitely times I would have appreciated the opportunity to just take charge and "make" things happen. I can understand both sides. Especially when you are dealing with difficult people. Especially if you are dealing with individuals whose interests may interfere with those of the organization itself. I don't know that this is or isn't what happened at Tron. I don't feel like I am in a position to judge what Justin might do in the future based on something that he did in the past which I don't fully understand.

...what Justin might do in the future based on something that he did in the past which I don't fully understand.

He used the genesis-block, the original block of crypto that was reserved for "supporting the community", (which is exactly what the steem-ninjamine was), he used that reserved crypto to CONSOLIDATE AND CENTRALIZE CONTROL OF THE CHAIN (which was touted as "decentralized").

Did he do it to get things done that couldn't/wouldn't/weren't being done?
I am assuming that by your assertions, that after this happened Tron was no more. It was pumped and dumped? I haven't really looked into Tron a whole lot. I used to trade it a long time ago. But haven't touched it since.
My question is: Is there such a thing a a decentralized blockchain. Does this really exist, or is this a pipe dream? Do they just appear decentralized..until they don't?

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Basically the question is, do you want one self-serving-moron in charge, or do you want seventeen self-serving-morons in charge?

Personally, I'll take the seventeen morons over one moron any day of the week.

We've already had one for four years, I'll gladly take 17 that can be voted in or out.

Except without transparency, we can't know who these 17 are, and what they stand for.
Who is actually holding the witnesses accountable?
I see some witnesses being voted in based on charisma, propaganda, misinformation and even dishonesty rather than on merit.
The level of apathy is concerning. It's like people don't know, and don't care to know, and certainly don't care to do anything about it.
I'd be happy to vote 17 "good" witnesses in. Who have a clear and unified vision. Who are professional. Who are willing to work together. Who know what they are doing. Who know what they need to do. Who have the skills, resources and know how to get what needs to be done, done.
But who are they? How can I know? I have had some real shit experiences here on Steem. I don't know who to trust anymore.
Man alive!
Maybe this is the wakeup call the community needs. Maybe they can finally get their ducks in a row?

I haven't concluded that Justin is a moron (yet).
At least one man has one vision. And from what I can discern at least he is business savvy.
I can't say the same about the witnesses we had. From what I can see they struggled to work together. They struggled to solve problems. They struggled to get this project to take off.
I feel like they have had their shake at it and we've witnessed the results.
I personally would have liked more transparency and more say.
I would like that moving forward.
I don't know what will happen. I "hear" Justin wants to be able to power down over a 24 hour period now. That should be available for everyone or no one. And, that really scares me. Is it the way people have behaved? I mean, I have observed the way people have behaved. It's, I don't even have words. Appalling. Disgusting.
I really am left not knowing what to do. Honestly. I haven't pulled any funds out yet. Should I pull them out, should I re-vest them? I honestly don't know at this moment. What a freaking gong show!

Honestly. I haven't pulled any funds out yet. Should I pull them out, should I re-vest them?

I'm personally keeping my powered-up steem where it is. If the chain forks, you'll still have all your tokens and associated on-chain benefits, but the market price will likely drop significantly.

Justin also might just dump all his steem on the open market out of spite in order to crash the price.

So, if you can't afford to lose the cash-equivalent of what you've "invested" in steem, you might consider cashing out until this whole thing blows over.

I have already burned this account by speaking up.
It's hard to discern what is real and what is talk. I have heard "talk" of hacking and nulling accounts. So I can risk leaving it here, but why, and at risk of losing it all. It's not like "I need" the money. But, I could give it to charity or do something nice with it. I don't like what my money is currently promoting. I am ashamed by how people have behaved, the things said. I hate being represented in such a way. Ugh! Yeah, I have wondered with recent rumors if he is getting ready to dump everything. Somehow, I can see it as a possibility. From .17/Steem to .017. LOL. face palm I just don't know what to think anymore. I appreciate you talking me through this insanity. I really do. I value your point of view and intellect. I appreciate that you substantiate your points of view. I can't see a different point of view if there is nothing to see. I think people don't understand that.
And you, do you think things will ever change? How can we make that happen? Is there a way?

And you, do you think things will ever change? How can we make that happen? Is there a way?

This will all blow-over in about a year we won't even remember it.

If The Sun fails their hostile-take-over attempt, they will probably get mad and dump their steem.

Sure, this might cause steem to drop down to 0.0017 USD, but there are lots of cryptos even lower that are still viable blockchains.

And if "the steem community" is real, and we actually survive this trial-by-fire, the value of steem will recover, my guess is a "natural" free-market-value should be about 0.01 USD. And it should stabilize around that mark and will increase in value slowly as the COMMUNITY grows.

I have already burned this account by speaking up.

Your tokens are safe.

Their value may crash, but your tokens are not going to be "stolen" or "frozen" by the top 17 witnesses (regardless of who they are or might be in the future).

Because if that happened, then steem would be worth zero and they have a lot more to lose than you do.

And, I don't even think it's technically possible (nobody has a copy of your steem-keys).

Yeah, and when it comes to my account. I am pretty much cooked because I spoke up. I think given the circumstances, it was worth it. I can only hope there is a future, a brighter future for Steem. Perhaps, I am naive for hoping. Perhaps. Sometimes, I know I can be too much of an idealist. Sigh

if they, as you claim, don't have all the facts to work with.

Exactly. I can't disclose some information but what we know doesn't seem like Justin is the buyer we wanted or one who had the best intentions for the chain in mind that we've worked years on. It's your choice and I'm not holding it against you nor will it affect my future curation. His actions after the temporary softfork should speak louder about his intentions to what to do with this cheap stake he got OTC. At least he won't also get the community on top of this deal.

So, you can't disclose the information required to substantiate your point of view. From an outside perspective, that seems awfully convenient. Can you see that?
So, you expect people to blindly just accept what you or others said?
How do I know you're telling me the truth?
As an example, I was told the "truth" by curating communities before. I remember one in particular, made some very big public proclamations about being just, for the good, and doing what is "right'. It "sounded" great. They received a ton of support and delegations. I, being my "Asperger-self" monitored their account and saw what they actually did. They painted one picture for the public and even for their curators, and the reality was very different than that picture. I was disgusted. Of course, this community was run by a witness. As were another two, that I had the same experience with. I didn't have the same experience with all the projects witnesses were involved with, not necessarily because these issues didn't exist, but because I didn't look deeper. I am very disheartened. I feel betrayed and lied to. Their actions/deceit spoke loudly to me and influenced the way I saw/see them.
I see that Justin took an interest in Steem in 2016 (or perhaps even sooner). How much of what has been going on does he know about? If he saw and had experiences as I did, perhaps this could explain his methodology.
And, I still can't blame him for reacting to something the witnesses did. It's to be expected. Isn't it?
Am I a terrible person for defending myself? Really? Don't I have to take defensive action to protect myself if I have been attacked?
And no, I am not worried about any future curation. I knew by taking a stance and opening my mouth that I was done here. There is no way forward for me. I knew what I was doing when I did it. I've seen how people are treated who oppose those in power. I am shocked I haven't been downvoted into oblivion yet. I am expecting that.
Perhaps it is because I didn't personally name the witnesses I caught. Perhaps it is because I didn't out them and their operations.
Who knows.
I don't!
While I hope for better, I also have some serious reservations.
Things would really have to change in order for them to change. But, will they? If there is no immediate financial incentive for doing so, will they? If there is a financial loss for doing so, will they? Yeah, I have to be realistic.

As I said I'm not holding you against your opinions and from what I'm hearing your concerns are legit for many witnesses and many have played the political game and stayed in power for too long without providing much back to the community. About your other comment, I believe actions and history speak louder about certain witnesses than who they are. We're in this short squeeze of price now where there's a lot of leeway for allowing some witnesses certain positions because not enough big stakeholders care or are active in judging their performances outside of just verifying blocks. I do believe that once things turn around and Steem gets more traction and value many who aren't constantly evolving, adapting and bringing value back to the platform will find themselves in lower positions.

Right now we have this problem though and my personal opinion after everything I've read, watched and taken into account are that this buyer does not care about the community other than getting them onto his ghosttown of a blockchain. Some things have been told to me in confidence that I can't share, you may think that's convenient and I might be using it to bend the truth but there's nothing in it for me to do so. I wouldn't even mind not being in the top20 with my partner that I share the witness with if there's others doing way better things for Steem. I'm someone who thinks the bar of what is done by witnesses should be increased than just producing blocks and maintaining their position by votetrading or other political games. Steem is weird cause it's disincentivized to buy witness votes by sharing rewards with the voters which is something that occurs on EOS and other DPOS blockchains but at the same time some try defending that producing blocks is the only "job" they're supposed to be held accountable for.

Anyway, the crypto community in general is not easy to understand, the majority hate Steem due to past experiences and former people in charge which is sort of understandable. Many are not aware of the positive changes that have occurred here since but one thing you can't deny is the reputation of Justin Sun there. If the crypto community hate him more than Steem itself it should tell you something, even so, I've done a lot of research on the matter and I've concluded that Tron is what I suspected it to be. A bad copy of code in a bad coding language that could very well be a competitor to Steem but they haven't focused on introducing the social aspect to it because they know people would realize then how dead of real users that coin really is. His acquisitions make sense if you think he's trying to buy users and a community, with buying Steemit he could also have the team work on creating something very similar to Steem and have everyone swap over to that sidechain which is hard to argue were not his intentions to begin with.

So my honest opinion is. JS bought Steemit+stake dirt cheap from someone who wanted out and couldn't find enough buyers because of its reputation. He either wanted a quick profit to flip the coins and knew about the promises of the Steemit stake but plays dumb now because the former seller agreed to sign NDA's not mentioning he knew about it but seeing as how cheap he got it it must've been part of the deal. His best case scenario was probably having the Steemit team who now quit build his steem sidechain, have the community swap over and bring all the value from his Steem over there. Now he realized he lost the community and doesn't want to lose the extra stake that came with the deal and wants out as soon as possible. I don't think there was ever a plan for a true partnership to have both blockchains grow side by side even though that's something me and many others would have wanted. It's sad and I wish there would've been someone else interested in buying Steem or getting the deal through instead because there were (Ned mentioned he had talked to blocktrades as well) but we got JS instead and Ned sold us to someone he probably knew didn't give a shit but he got some more money out of it with tainted stake he insists was no promised for anything and only belongs to Steemit to do whatever it wants with after years of bringing in investors who bought Steem and stayed invested because of that stake being used for the future development, marketing (which we never saw any of) and other distribution.

Well, you're certainly the first person I have heard that said they "wouldn't mind not being in the type 20" if someone was doing something better/more/great for the blockchain/community. Maybe you should lead with that the next time? Haha.
Yes, there is evidence of Witnesses creating systems that benefited them(and their buddies) more than they did the community. People have the ability to see those types of things. It's a blockchain. Nevermind that some of it wasn't hidden very well. It's wrong. It should never have happened, and it certainly should not continue.
Yes, witnesses need to be "evolving, adapting and bringing value back to the platform". It is my belief that they have a responsibility to act in the best interest of the community. If they are not willing to do that, then in my opinion, they should not be entrusted to be witnesses.
"I don't think there was ever a plan for a true partnership to have both blockchains grow side by side even though that's something me and many others would have wanted."
I'm surprised that this is something that you and many others would have wanted. It's refreshing to hear you say that.
Maybe there should be some type of code of ethics for witnesses? And public notice if those are broken.
Really I keep coming back to this transparency issue. Transparency and accountability. Plus giving the community a say. I hate being told "how it is going to be" after the fact. It sucks!

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