Thoughts on Tron founder voting in Super Representatives

in #steem9 months ago (edited)

The Tron (TRX) community was beside itself on Wednesday, Feb. 19 after founder Justin Sun’s address was shown to have voted in two Tron Foundation apps as a Super Representative (SR). source


Just as some thought the dust was beginning to settle......

On Sunday I started flooding the 'AMA', hosted by Justin Sun and Ned Scott, with a question:


Others joined in and at times the above filled the chat completely. In the end, we received some sort of answer in which I think included the words 'no plans'.

Just four days later, it seems that mined stake (presumably owned by Justin) has been used to vote in a couple of Tron witnesses, or 'Super Representatives'.

Only 2 votes though - for now

Well yes and no, as the article states:

Last September, Cointelegraph reported that Binance had become the number one Tron SR after it launched staking for TRX users. Those funds were then used to vote Binance in as lead Super Representative.

So with our community, and especially top witnesses, already on edge, the news today is perhaps going to be the tipping point. Many have already spoken about the potential of a fork (to 0 the recently purchased, mined STEEM stake) and I have a feeling that top level discussions are happening with regards to this right now.

I'm certainly not the right person to go into detail about the mechanics of all this, and so I'll just let out some thoughts and hopefully be corrected where I'm talking rubbish.

When, and for the short time, I was involved with a witness account, I looked up the list to those providing something special. Sure, a couple of engaging community witnesses is nice to have a could even be a factor in retention rates, but what about those witnesses bringing people here due to a business venture, or those creating integral account management features, or even key Steem blockchain developers?

Those, @yabapmatt, @gtg, @blocktrades, @aggroed, to name some but far from all, are the witnesses you would think the community, and indeed investors, would likely want to keep.

The accounts voted in on the Tron network are 'two Tron Foundation apps'. And without doing my research, I would hope that they have shown promise and attracted visitors and investment.

So it seems that Justin has centralized the witness voting and gone over the heads of the community consensus - is that really so bad though if those accounts are bringing the most people/investment to their chain?

I can ask that question free from any worry about my nonexistent top 20 position, but what about freedom, pumpkins, and decentralization?

... Basically, the cryptographic equation is throwing a pumpkin (the block) off a building and telling you what the splatter pattern looked like. The only way users can match the splatter pattern — and send the block — is to hurl a bunch of pumpkins off a building themselves. So people who “mine” cryptocurrency are actually just using their computers to smash billions of pumpkins in order to find the winning pumpkin with the right splatter, which validates their block.. source

More closely aligned to Proof of Work than Proof of Stake, but considering Steem has it's very own @pumpkin controlling matters at the top of the witness ranks.......

I have no clue what is ahead for Steem and just hope that the right decisions are made.


There was a rebuttal, I know it doesn't justify it

I am quite glad you mention freedom/pumpkin because for a long time they have effectively controlled the top twenty here. Can we really complain when the same essentially happens elsewhere... :0)

Oh, hang on, that's right. Freedom is an angel investor... ;0)

Cheers for the link.

Well there is some sense to that, I guess.

Yeah, 2 accounts have the say here soo, decentralized, not sure!

Hehe, oh aye. Don't get me wrong, it's still not right!! :0)

And they only have 10 million odd Steem to control with :)

I know, I guess at the start they always thought that would be enough!

Then everything is ok unless he sends over the Steem he acquired when he bought Steemit.

Aye well, he did buy it. I suppose it would be a bit rubbish if you bought a factory and a shit ton of stock and everybody said you can't use the stock!

I agree as you should have some sort of say. I know when he bought Steemit he said it was an investment and having some say is the only way to change something for the better. He wants the price to rise and I think everyone else would like to see that happen at some point.

Oh heck yeah. It is why, after my initial we're all fucked moment, I am relatively ok with the whole thing now because I don't think he would do anything except try to raise the price.

Now if talk rears its head about a token swap again I will go nuts! lol

I don't think it will as if you listen to his interview when it got leaked he explained that there was a difference between his acquisitions and investments. I don't think he will meddle and think that people are just to jumpy right now.

At girst he will do things for the good of steem. Then when he knows he has control, he will do things for the good of tron and his close steem supports. Finally he will do things for himself. The sun keeps us alive, but it is also dangerous. Sunscreen anyone?

The way I see things is Justin Sun is the early 1900s factory owner and we are the workers.

We can unionize to try and keep him in check. It's better than doing nothing.

I'm not calling for a fork, but being prepared to do it quickly is great.

What we need is to show him that he didn't buy us. We can stop using Steemit and work together to reduce the impact of his power on the blockchain.

Maybe it's not currently possible to get more power and stake, but if enough people pay attention (or at least set a proxy withness amd proposal votee), it could become possible.

Besides he is less likely to do something if the impact will be worse.

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Asher, I understand the concern. I understand why you think steem blockchain could be vulnerable and I appreciate your attachment with the steem blockchain. You know that I value your opinion a lot and especially on everything steem. With all that said, can I ask a simple question please? Not to you only, but also to the greater community as well:

Why buy a blockchain company, and destroy the human element that makes the steem blockchain unique?

There are many other ways to destroy 20-25 M dollars if you ask me....

Hi @azircon

Thank you for the kind message.

With regards to your question, it would seemingly be absolute folly to destroy what makes Steem unique, and I'm forever hopeful that this is not the plan. The news coming out of the Tron camp has not put anyone's mind at ease though, and I have a feeling it could be the people on 'our side' that make the first move. Whether that move is right or not, I am very unsure.

There are many other ways to destroy 20-25 M dollars if you ask me....

Yes, it could be given to me to trade with :)

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Buckle up Dorothy because the dust will not settle with this one any time soon xD

Steem had always had a big problem with the Witnesses system. Maybe we should take this opportunity to solve that, once and for all.

Allowing the same Stake to be used for 30 votes is plain dumb. One's stake should be used to vote for a single Witness.

If someone decides to cast 30 votes, then their stake should be distributed through the 30 votes.

For example, if I vote for 1 Witness, that Witness gets 100% of my Voting SP. If I vote for 2, then each vote should be worth half of my stake. And if I choose to cast 30 votes, then each Witness gets 1/30 of my voting SP.

I believe that voting method would be a lot fairer and would reduce the risk of a big whale controlling all 20 Top Witnesses.

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I think for the next few weeks, to the next couple of months is going to be very interesting around the steem block chain world. One thing I hope Justin does is see the harm and damage the the down vote bot army is/has caused, and that he removes the delegations of @steem from any account that does not post or comment. In the mean time I am trying to transition over to the steempeak front end interface.

You’re always invited to use Steemleo as well 🦁

#leoshill4life ;)

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I appreciate the fact there are other sites and the offer. I don't post to much crypto wise, but I do you the community page when I do my Monthyly Progress reports. I ahve a tendency to be all over the board when it comes to posting a a generic front end works best for me, and then I try and use an appropriate Community/tribe site for my postings.

Very interesting/terrifying/exciting/frightening indeed.

The man bought his take fair and and square and he should be able to use it as he wishes. With a take-over a change in power should be expected.

I'm against forking his stake out but not against forking ourselves out via creating a clone site and everyone starting on even grounds.

We get too many witness votes, five votes per account is more then enough.

My full thoughts on the matter can be found below.

The tweet suggests that he's voted in more active block producers with up to date code versions. Here, i've not seen our to 20/30/40 straggle when new versions have been released but I would expect the community to show disapproval and make the majority stake force their hand like that.


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I'm against forking out a specific user or account just on principle, but starting a new blockchain at zero is an intriguing idea.

Hey @skepticology, here is a little bit of BEER from @rentmoney for you. Enjoy it!

Learn how to earn FREE BEER each day by staking.

I dont know if it can add some context about the tron votes done by the foundation but here is a chart of my earnings on staked tron before and after this change.

It's a drop of about 5% in earnings to date which was already significantly decreased after binance started staking. That one was considerably higher but I dont remember what it was off the top of my head (50%?)

Thanks for the input. I wasn't aware how you earned Tron and if you could do so by staking.

you vote for a Super representative(witness) and depending on which one, some share a part of the earnings with voters

Very interesting. That was tried over here I believe but seen as bribery of sorts and so I don’t think it really took off.

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Writings on the wall and yet everyone still thinks it would be different for them.

Any idea what's going on upstairs at present? The silence from the top witnesses is deafening.

Wasn't the idea of all this what we have, is that we don't have to "trust" anyONE's decisions. Sounds like that idea's out the window. Or am I missing something here?

well someone bought a shit ton of steem, no one is really sure about the number. now no one is really sure could he with all that steem get 20 of his people as first 20 witnesses. From what i learned it is really close to that. And that was a possibility to until now, but Ned said he will not do that, and he kinda did not, now Justin said he has no plans to do that, we are kinda not sure do we believe him :D

"And that was a possibility to until now, but Ned said he will not do that, and he kinda did not, now Justin said he has no plans to do that, we are kinda not sure do we believe him"

Exactly the problem, we now kind of have to trust someone's word...

well we did that until now to, but Ned did not tweet about coin swaps so it was just mentioned from time to time. from what i heard it is not 100% that he could do that. So we will have to wait and see.

Justin can easily purchase the necessary majority STEEM if he doesn't already have it, he is not limited to only the amount he bought from Steemit.

Didn't even need to purchase :)

I have no idea how it works on tron and how many people do you need to make a change. if it is 20-30 that is maybe ok. I would kinda not mind even if he voted for one of the witnesses here, he has a lot of stake, he maybe wants a representative in that top witnesses (it would be shity to someone who would be out of the 20).

I think it's 27, based on reading through the tweets..

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no idea of how it works. but it could be true

That shows me how disfunctional the tron model is....or clever for him bt presenting convenient excuses.

well we will see if they will do what he said. i am really bad in this crypto blockchain technology as i did not do any serious research, but from i seen in this 2 years that i am on steem and get some crypto news from time to time, a lot of them have that problem of initial distribution.

now if i would make a blockchain that i think it will do well, would i not get a decent amount of coin to me and my friends, well i probably would :D

Some have built in mechanisms to limit the use of initial sake, for example it can only be sold so quickly or has limited use. For example when that vote on the steem alliance happened, after 500,000sp, votes were worth a lot less. Now that is a big stake, but it is smaller than 70million.
Sure they could divide it, but maybe there is a solution to that, too.

I’m so dumb when it comes to all the behind the scenes stuff here!!!!

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Keep doing what you do and hope for the best!

Well, that’s on the Tron network, not here, so, I reallly don’t care. But if it would happen here, he would still not have enough influence to steer the witnesses I think.

Unless there are at least 5 Witnesses who get enough MVest votes to exceed what Sun acquired from Steemit Inc, then he could take full control of all Witness slots in the top 20.

The key is to get the Top 5 higher than what Sun can cast.

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True, it's there not here, for now.

The 3 (at least) accounts he's bought have enough SP to revamp the top 20 big time.

Shit, meet fan, fan meet shit!

I dunno where the wall is but I want to be a fly on shit on that well ventilated wall.

Something like that anyway :)

Nah. Justin wouldnt do that to us. He likes Steem more then TRON.

He only did it to save Tron.
Our glorious overlord is a benevolent one looking after his children.


Thank you @slowwalker!

Mr I'm powering down to power up a bunch of self-voting alts, dear me!

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Time will tell. There's sure A LOT going on. This "communities" stuff is messing with my mind. So. Much. Change. #hodl

I don't really understand all this as it is way above my head. In simple terms what has just happened?

Shady looking governance on the Tron chain. ;0D essentially the boss man voting in his own for reasons

So Justin is trying to keep control by using whatever methods he can legal or illegal.

Yeah, it's like Steem! :0D

Gimme STEEEMs!


Do they grow from the ground or the ceiling?


Oh no, wait. Are you thinking of grommits? :0D

If only the guy would communicate to the community, it would all be better...

That's true. It all comes down to clear and honest communication.

Before is usually best too!

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I’m willing to admit I don’t know enough about the situation. The more we find out about them the more it seems to point out we have similar issues in our own ecosystem. At least here for now they have a place they can voice their concerns regarding what is going on in their own ecosystem fi they wish.

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